Immaturity And Peer-pressure The Father Of 9/11? Options

[Quest]

An interesting read on globilizations' pushers to it's culmination in 9/11. What I find most interesting is the absolute, if I may state so politically incorrectly, "gayness", of the the individuals involved in the globalization, military aspect of 911. These people all come across as drama queens; full of self-importance and the need to stand out. They love to listen to the sound of their own voices, yet they don't hear their own words. Did they not realize they in effect were calling for a false-flag operation like 9/11? Didn't they realize it would culminate in the genocide of over 1 million Iraqis and Afghanis? Couldn't they forsee the deaths of thousands of American and allied soldiers? Or the spread of depleted uranium over not only the middle-east but over much of Europe? It seems like it's all about fashion and self-importance with a dash of peer-pressure sprinkled in. It also seems they need to to "one-up" each other in their level of insanity for fear of looking "weak" thereby guarenteeing even greater insanity around them because there will be no dissenting voices. This immature grandstanding behavior leads to wars, famine and genocide and seems to be a never ending phenomenon.

http://www.channelingreality.com/The_Coup/Barnett_Intro.htm

This post has been edited by Quest: Oct 21 2009, 07:52 PM

[painter]

Quest, as a gay man I do take some umbrage to your employment of a stereotype as a degrading reference to these globalist, neoconservative slugs. Of course, calling them slugs is equally an insult to all gastropoda everywhere but the point is, it isn't necessary to employ stereotypes to communicate one's loathing. In my instance, all I need do is substitute the "sl" with "th".

I'm also going to take issue with the author you link to on the point of communism. He writes: "To those who say that it can't be communist because the government doesn't own the means of production, think again. The U.S. government is merely a facade. The multinationals have become the government, they own the means of production...". You can't, on one hand, say the, "The U.S. government is merely a facade," which I agree, it is, and then follow that with, "The multinationals have become the government, they own the means of production..." No, that isn't accurate. The "government" does not own the means of production precisely because, as he says, the "government" has become a facade -- that is, an instrument of the globalist corporate elite. It may be a fine point but it is an important one. Lets be clear about what government in the service of corporate interests is -- it isn't "communism" it is "fascism". I understand the distinction gets blurred but communism does have something to offer us in terms of its analysis of class struggle. Blurring that distinction does not serve our interests, quite the opposite, actually.

From the point of view of that analysis, your question, "Did they not realize they we[sic] in effect calling for a false-flag operation like 9/11? Didn't they realize it would culminate in the genocide of over 1 million Iraqis and Afghanis? ..." (etc.) has a very direct answer: Of course they did, and they don't give a shit. Works for them. They don't regard our class, that is, in the communist rubric, "the working class," as either human or worthy of consideration. Your interests and my interests are not their interests -- and this is precisely what makes what they are doing "fascist" as opposed to "communist." I can, and have at times, taken this to the extreme of pointing out the false premises of "individualism" vs. "communalism." Everything -- from the atom to the universe of galaxies -- from the micro to the macro cosmos -- is made up of energetic systems operating in patterns of energy exchange at every level. There is no "individual" anything, anywhere. Any attempt to implement an "individualist" political philosophy will only end in anarchy (which, in my view, is basically what we have now: rule by thugs). << Now there's "individualism" for you.

Such philosophical quibbles aside, basically the author is right. But don't ever think they don't know what they are doing or that their behavior can be accounted for simply by prejudiced allusions to "histrionics." It is cold and calculated, elitist and divine-right exceptionalist, "individualism" taken to its extreme.

[André]

"Of course, calling them slugs is equally an insult to all gastropoda everywhere"

LOL , there are lots of snails where I live, I try not to step on them, can't say I would do the same for a neocon.



"it isn't "communism" it is "fascism". I understand the distinction gets blurred but communism does have something to offer us in terms of its analysis of class struggle. Blurring that distinction does not serve our interests, quite the opposite, actually."

Thanks for pointing that out, generally speaking I believe the blurring is intentional, and it does serve a purpose...

[Sanders]

Nice post, painter. Agree 100%.

A minor point - "they" (at that time who were referred to regularly as the "banksters") did not invent communism - they merely appropriated it. At the time, they saw it as a means to an end - and even today, capitalist greed is brought out to justify socialist moves by the government. Central control with them in charge is always the ploy, whether under the guise of communism, democracy or fascism. That's why America was such a threat - it was none of the above.

[aerohead]

Good thread Quest,
Im in agreement. The perception of our government by most
of our population is a Free Republic, which most have been brainwashed
into believing is a Democracy. BIG difference. But the truth is that our Republic
is hanging by a very thin thread and is nearly a democracy right
now and well on its way to an Oligarchy (tyranny of the elite). The Oligarchy
already exists, and is in control of the puppets in Washington and the main stream
news, our financial system, military forces and nearly every other important
section of our society. The only thing that is stopping an open Oligarchy right
now is one word............ GUNS. An armed public that owns over 200 million
guns and gun sales that went up 42 % just last year and are continuing
to rocket up. There is not a force on this planet that can stop 50 million
pissed off Americans with guns. There is over 300 million people in this
country and many of us served it honorably in the military. If they continue
to push our backs into a corner by selling our nations sovereignty, unconstitutional taxation
and then give these taxes to their criminal global elite buddies and use them to dominate us
and serve the global elite, unconstitutional laws that "allow" them to spy on us and data mine us
"for our protection" from the wrong terrorists, commit murder and torture in our name, lie to us
about the wars and the false flag operations etc etc etc............Then i wish you well. This wont
be tolerated much longer by millions of Americans that know and love this Republic and also
know what has happened and is happening to it.

If they do not cease and desist these treasonous activities and bring our military members home,
then i fear we may see a Revolution in this country unlike anything ever seen in history.
People are waking up and seeing whats going on. The truth is spreading like a wildfire.
Something must be done to diffuse what is brewing underneath the surface of our
country. Patriots in our Federal Government need to stand up and bring down this tyrannical
giant once and for all. No-one wants a violent uprising, but many think that there will be
no other way. The FBI and CIA arent doing anything to expose or stop them. The members
of Congress have been threatened in order to pass legislation and they all seem to be
impotent and scared and sold out sloths. So whats left ? Who do we go to in our government
if they have all been gotten to..........
The only thing that seems to be left is us...... the common man.
And maybe thats how it should be. This Republic wasnt built for banksters and politicians and
elitists. It was built to serve and protect the common man. And that is who has to fight
to keep it that way. All of us common men need to join under one voice and shout
"Im mad as hell, and im not gonna take it anymore" and demand the return of our
Republic and strict adherence to our Constitution and the termination of all the laws, plans and
mandates that violate it. Including and especially the NWO.


Clicky ----------> The American Form of Government

This post has been edited by aerohead: Oct 21 2009, 04:42 PM

[painter]

But the truth is that our Republic is hanging by a very thin thread and is nearly a democracy right now and well on its way to an Oligarchy (tyranny of the elite).

Whatever thread there was snapped on 9/11. The Republic is dead except in name and appearance only. We are under tyranny, full-spectrum dominance, the most important being that of the perception of our actual situation. Slaves who do not perceive their slavery will not rebel. I grant there is growing dissatisfaction and grant 'some' awakening is happening -- but we're along way from the counter-revolution needed to reclaim the Republic.

Written in 2004:

Perhaps the biggest hidden reason people don’t make the paranoid shift is that knowledge brings responsibility. If we acknowledge that an inner circle of ruling elites controls the world’s most powerful military and intelligence system; controls the international banking system; controls the most effective and far-reaching propaganda network in history; controls all three branches of government in the world’s only superpower; and controls the technology that counts the people’s votes, we might be then forced to conclude that we don’t live in a particularly democratic system. And then voting and making contributions and trying to stay informed wouldn’t be enough. Because then the duty of citizenship would go beyond serving as a loyal opposition, to serving as a “loyal resistance” -- like the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, except that in this case the resistance to fascism would be on the side of the national ideals, rather than the government; and a violent insurgency would not only play into the empire’s hands, it would be doomed from the start.

Forming a nonviolent resistance movement, on the other hand, might mean forsaking some middle class comfort, and it would doubtless require a lot of work. It would mean educating ourselves and others about the nature of the truly apocalyptic beast we face. It would mean organizing at the most basic neighborhood level, face to face. (We cannot put our trust in the empire’s technology.) It would mean reaching across turf lines and transcending single-issue politics, forming coalitions and sharing data and names and strategies, and applying energy at every level of government, local to global. It would also probably mean civil disobedience, at a time when the Bush regime is starting to classify that action as “terrorism.” In the end, it may mean organizing a progressive confederacy to govern ourselves, just as our revolutionary founders formed the Continental Congress. It would mean being wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A paradigm shift.

Source: http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publis...ticle_203.shtml

I understand you may disagree with, "and a violent insurgency would not only play into the empire’s hands, it would be doomed from the start," but I don't. Not unless your talking about a counter-coup within the established system and particularly the military itself. I see no evidence for this. Perhaps you are in an information stream that sees something I don't.

What I see is a military establishment that has become the willing shield and technological strike force for a globalist agenda and a large domestic population who couldn't care less about "national ideals." What I see is a lot of counter-intelligence generated confusion and just generally idiotic babble that keeps everything and everyone uncertain about what "is" is. Works for Them™.

[tnemelckram]

Hi Painter!

Thanks for posting the excerpt from the 2004 Editorial. It gave me a real clear understanding of what you have been saying on the many other threads where we discussed this. The writer sees things very clearly.

I agree that a violent revolution would play into their bloodily repressive hands. What's necessary is to scale back our perceived needs and withdraw from the game to a significant extent, sort of like a reverse Atlas Shrugged. The PTB depend on us to keep the game big and shrinking it instead will strike a blow that hopefully makes them take heed.

I guess the only difference is that I'm a bit more sanguine about the prospects. The more you stomp on people the less money they have to spend on the frivolous necessities frivolities that keep the game big. I hope that people in general will naturally contract their consumption as a matter of necessity. Then the PTB will be forced to choose between sharing enough wealth to restore the former mass population of consumer-bots or try to kill them because they are superfluous. I don't think they can do the latter - the masses outnumber the PTBs by more than 99 to 1 and most of them have guns.

EDIT TO ADD: I also think people can make enough cut backs without a too drastic effect on their standard of living. A big part of the BS is in the entertainment and recreation that is pushed upon us. It is easy to find cheaper alternatives here. Another huge part is the drummed up demand for luxury cars and houses that are far more than anyone reasonably needs. Modesty here will make a huge statement. The last area is large consumer products like appliances and furniture. Hard to do without, but you can only buy the appliances you need and you can make some of your own furniture (which I can vouch for as a good alternative form of entertainment).

This post has been edited by tnemelckram: Oct 21 2009, 07:19 PM

[aerohead]

Painter,
For the most part i agree with what youve said. But there is one
thread still intact for the time being.......... the Second Amendment.
And as Jefferson said, "no free man shall ever be debarred the use
of firearms" And "The strongest reason for the people to retain the
right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government."
And on this front we are gaining ground as the truth about "gun control"
comes out in light of recent exposure of Chicago and Washington DC's gun
ban laws that have failed miserably at controlling violence.
Gun sales were up 42% last year. People are waking up and starting
to see the need to put "fear into out government" because that is the
essence of Liberty.
"When people fear their government, there is tyranny, when a government
fears its people, there is Liberty" It is essential for every freedom loving
American to exercise ALL of our rights including and especially the 2nd
Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

The problem right now is that the "tube" has alot of people believing that
our government will do what they want and theres nothing they can do about it.
WRONG. All we have to do is speak......open our mouths and speak the
truth, question our government about their actions and demand answers.
But you must realize that if all peaceful avenues have been exhausted and
there is still no end to the tyranny in this country, an uprising will more than likely
happen.
There is alot of people who are silent right now but know whats going
on and are preparing for the worst. We all want peace and an end to the
NWO and the BS around it. And i really believe that the end of it is very
near. All its gonna take is ONE Patriot in Congress who has had enough. and
it will all start coming out and the NWO's plans for America will be explode into
a thousand pieces.

[aerohead]

And i wouldnt be so quick to believe that the troops are
going along with it. There is an organization that is growing
by leaps and bounds right now called "OATH KEEPERS"
A group made up of military and police that swear to their
oaths to protect the Constitution and this Republic.

Click----------------> Oath Keepers

[Quest]

Quest, as a gay man I do take some umbrage to your employment of a stereotype as a degrading reference to these globalist, neoconservative slugs. Of course, calling them slugs is equally an insult to all gastropoda everywhere but the point is, it isn't necessary to employ stereotypes to communicate one's loathing. In my instance, all I need do is substitute the "sl" with "th".

Point taken, Painter. No offense intended. But, I will stick with the generic "drama queen" label for these people, that is, the "globalists" - it's an accurate charge. These people so remind me of "the sky is falling" type and crave the attention - no matter how much death is rained upon their fellow mankind as a result of their own undiagnosed psychosis.

Lost in this in thread so far in case no one noticed it, was how the investment firm, Cantor Fitzgerald was not only the company that was 'hit' by a plane but was seemingly instrumental in pushing the globalist philosophy. An amazing 9/11 coincedence. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_Fitzgerald

Cantor Fitzgerald L.P. is a global financial services firm specializing in bond trading, as well as investment banking, asset management, market data and brokerage services. It was founded in 1945 by Bernard Gerald Cantor and John Fitzgerald as a limited partnership and remains so today. Cantor Fitzgerald is one of seventeen primary dealers who trade U.S. government securities directly with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.[1] It is headquartered in Midtown Manhattan, New York City.[2]

".

[truthmatters]

Interesting thread here. And I want to thank you too, Painter, for the link to the Michael Hasty article.

Regarding the following, said by Quest,

"gayness", of the the individuals involved in the globalization, military aspect of 911.

Probably not the best way to describe them. I have a brother who is gay. He's a wonderful human being and doesn't fit the stereotype you presented.

[Quest]

Interesting thread here. And I want to thank you too, Painter, for the link to the Michael Hasty article.

Regarding the following, said by Quest,


Probably not the best way to describe them. I have a brother who is gay. He's a wonderful human being and doesn't fit the stereotype you presented.

Yeah, you're right. I know better. I PM'd Painter right after the post. I was playing loosely with the term but I was trying to make a point. The more acceptable and generic term "drama queen" would have sufficed. Why do I suddenly feel like the bad-guy characters in the SNL cartoon "Ambiguously Gay Duo"? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/doh1.gif)

This post has been edited by Quest: Oct 21 2009, 08:04 PM

[truthmatters]

In Quest post-

Lost in this in thread so far in case no one noticed it, was how the investment firm, Cantor Fitzgerald was not only the company that was 'hit' by a plane but was seemingly instrumental in pushing the globalist philosophy. An amazing 9/11 coincedence.

The Pentagon's New Map by Thomas P.M. Barnett makes references to Cantor Fitzgerald. Barnett himself had been participating in workshops
at the WTC as part of the Naval War College's ongoing research partnership with Cantor Fitzgerald. The workshops brought together Wall Street heavyweights, senior national security officials and leading experts from academia and think tanks. According to the info on the jacket of his new book Great Powers, Barnett regularly advises the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the State Department, the Special Operations Command, Pacific Command, and Central Command, and routinely briefs senior members of the four military services, the intelligence community, Congress, and global corporations.

[Daniels]

Good post Quest.



I much appreciate the many illuminating comments that have been posted in this thread.





Eventually we shall get our society of justice and peace.



"Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the 'Most Great Peace' shall come."

Baha'i Writings

[tnemelckram]

On the gay thing . . .

I think I understand what Quest was trying to do but he got carried away. Painter rightly pointed that out. Quest did the right thing in response to Painter's concerns.

The military guys who fostered public fear and otherwise encouraged or enabled our botched response to 911 (among them, some likely perps) tend to be macho, conservative types steeped in an authoritarian credo. Quest's label attacks the way they perceive their manhood, which they highly value, so it carries some sting. Given that what they did ran counter to their serious responsibilities to us, I don't think that any attack on them is too strong. So it seems Quest wanted to take a good swipe at them in this fashion. He is keeping "drama queen" for these clowns, which I think is accurate, more than enough by itself to make his point, and otherwise appropriate. Look at how they tried to drum up militarism and an exalted place for themselves and the so called "Commander In Chief" in the public eye after 911, while over-reacting to criticism to the point of calling their critics "traitors". Drama Queens indeed! And up till now the term only seemed to apply to Brent Favre! Quest's point is well made without adding "gay". Quest personally doesn't seem to give the word an inherently negative meaning like that for "N----r". He used it because the military guys would think it is negative, especially when applied to them.

GBLT people are in the midst of a struggle for equal social acceptance and legal rights. Black people might be near the end of their similar struggle. Unlike "N----r", "gay" has many uses with positive connotations, but it can also be used in a derogatory way. In both cases, words that are inherently negative or used negatively undermine the drive for social acceptance, so there is good reason for the sensitivity.

But I found that one issue needed perspective. I have several gay friends and socialize with others fairly often. Most of them (including the friends) have made The Big Suggestion in one form or another. I say I'm flattered but unfortunately hetero. Their response eventually boils down to how can you be sure until you try? My answer is that if they are certain of their sexual orientation and confident and comfortable with it, then I am equally sure that I only like the girls. Every sexual thought I ever had and have involves one woman and/or another; also, while men are the same as me, women are different, and I prefer different.

Now comes the big insight - even though they're gay, they're still guys! Of course they are inclined make a try at you! They can't help it, just like I can't help trying to do the same with women! So we're still basically the same. With this understanding, there is nothing offensive about it - I often used the "how can you find out unless you try" line (or argument) on women during mating dances - it's nice that somebody likes you. The episode almost always ends well with some good male-oriented jokes because after all your both still guys.

[painter]

On the gay thing . . .

This is getting way off topic. I wouldn't mind having this discussion, but it should have its own thread. I'm going start one in "chill" then edit this post w/ a link to it. Ok, here you go: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18252

[tnemelckram]

This is getting way off topic.

Sorry about hijacking the thread. It seems to be resolved that with the above refinements, Quest has come up with an ingenious device to get inside and rattle the skulls of the Post 911 Military Opportunist sub group and the smaller group of, for lack of a better word, Pre 911 Opportunists.
As to the other potentially inflammatory thing, it seems that two respected posters have reached an understanding so a fire never happened. It seemed time to bury it by changing the subject. For that purpose, sex is always sure to work!

[Quest]

Getting back on topic....

The following video of a CFR meeting whose members are outraged anyone would question their opinions regarding the supposed flu theat and it's potential 'cure', the vaccine, are obviously caught up in their own hype and self-importance. It makes you wonder if they actually saw themselves in this video would they say to themselves, "My god! Did I really say that?" Notice the willingness to lie, exaggerate their claims and the "ME against them" attitude toward the general public. These CFR members are obviously suffering from low self esteem and are fearful of voicing a dissenting opinion thereby guaranteeing disaster. I imagine it's happened like this many times though historyin buildups to war and genocide. It's all about self-importance and fashion.

URGENT Evidence of HOLDING BACK VACCINE TO CREATE PANIC It is my DUTY to WARN PEOPLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd9eXb-JGdk...layer_embedded#

[Quest]

Another classic "Check out the big words I use!" moment is in the below clip from "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Moon" at the 9:00 minute mark where General John Medaris calls for the "manned domination of space". The arrogance and self-flagellation is nothing short of amazing - not to mention embarrasing to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDeoBcVQSp4...&playnext=1

This post has been edited by Quest: Nov 10 2009, 09:43 PM

[jensdarup]

Didn't they realize it would culminate in the genocide of over 1 million Iraqis and Afghanis? Couldn't they forsee the deaths of thousands of American and allied soldiers?

I can't help shooting in between: The bought sell us.