9/11: Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible, FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT Rating Options

[SlackerSlayer]

A question for an experience large passenger aircraft pilot.

What would be your problem if any when all the passengers are herded into the back area as far as the balanced load goes? Isn't a huge shift in the center of gravity going to throw the inexperience off just a little?

[bobcat46]

tinynate:

Thanks for your reply on the cell phone question. That confirms what the electronic geeks are saying about how difficult it would to be for a cell phone to lock onto a tower while going >250 kts.

Are there any other out there that have tried to use your cell phones during a flight??

bobcat46

[onesliceshort]

Given Turbofan´s excellent summary of the actual circuit functions could someone explain how there would even BE a ´four second´ window of error? I mean, to a layman (on electronics) the operation of the circuit would come down to a simple circuit breaker. The door is either open or closed. Why have this 4 second window in a fairly simple operation?
Thoughts?

PS I may be talking out my rear here lol.

[Guest_Turbofan_*]

Hey "Oneslice",

There is NO delay. The signal is presented at the DAU port immediately (near speed of light!).

The parameter is polled every 4 seconds however. That is what everyone is talking about now.

Did Hani open the door...shut it...get two pilots out of their seats...open the door and shut it again.

He would have to open and close the door before the second poll in order for it to read CLOSED,
and within that time frame have two pilots walk through the door. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[onesliceshort]

Hey "Oneslice",

There is NO delay. The signal is presented at the DAU port immediately (near speed of light!).

The parameter is polled every 4 seconds however. That is what everyone is talking about now.

Did Hani open the door...shut it...get two pilots out of their seats...open the door and shut it again.

He would have to open and close the door before the second poll in order for it to read CLOSED,
and within that time frame have two pilots walk through the door. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Cheers for the clarification TF (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Also ´Hani´ would have had to have first entered as a new parameter was being polled to give
him the full 4 seconds. Hani the Ninja huh? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

So even if the inevitable spin begins that the ´hijackers could have broken it when they kicked the
door in´ the door being opened would have registered given this circuitbreaker system?

Sorry for all the questions mate. I´m still trying to take in the enormity of this.

[tnemelckram]

That is EXTREMELY important and blows the lid off their story but it does not indicate the data they provide really came from any plane at all. Most importantly we know for a FACT that the data is irreconcilable with the plane that the witnesses report on the north side of the citgo that could not have hit the building.

Basically when you tell a lie so big it's hard to make sure all aspects are covered and this is further proof that they did a sloppy job with their lie.

Dead on Craig. I was on the border before, thinking this FDR data maybe could have come from the plane the witnesses saw and that the older inconsistencies about the altitude and course could be reconciled with the NOC witnesses. The four foot final altitude above some object seemed to fit in with a fly over. But this door thing just about convinces me that this FDR Data has no relationship to anything and was manufactured out of whole cloth.

Why would they be so sloppy an release it via FOIA? Because they didn't think anybody would be able to read it let alone dig into and analyze it.

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

A little additonal info for you all...

Our resident researcher and associate in Arlington, VA was made aware of a strange flyby performed in the wee hours of the morning, under the cover of night, about a week or two prior to 9/11. Witnesses he knew told him that what sounded like a large aircraft flew over their house/neighborhood-which is right along the official story attack jet's flight path just a mile or two from the pentagon. This flyover was loud and low that it shook their house and woke them from their sleep. This could have only been the plane they used to record the data IMHO because planes in the area landing or taking off from reagan national do NOT fly over this part of Arlington at all, let alone low, loud, and fast.I would surmise that the pilots for this plane would not need to open the cockpit door. At least they forgot to or didn't realize they needed to. For all we know, this plane did not have any type of human pilots housed in the cockpit at all.

This information is still developing...

This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT: Nov 28 2009, 01:13 PM

[Kesha]

tinynate:

Thanks for your reply on the cell phone question. That confirms what the electronic geeks are saying about how difficult it would to be for a cell phone to lock onto a tower while going >250 kts.

Are there any other out there that have tried to use your cell phones during a flight??

bobcat46

Woody Box and me are discussing this issue in German forums since 2003 or so...

As my wife is from Moscow, we are flying a lot. Each time we do, we`re checking our GSM mobiles phones,
and the result is always the same... no matter which phone, airline or aircraft:

After take-off, the signal is vanishing at about 1700-1800 ft, and it does not come back until final approach at
about the same height. The second factor is the speed, it seems that apprx. 150 ml/h is the limit... this can also
be verified at ground level in a fast car on a German Autobahn. Could be it`s a bit more up in the air, but not
much.

This post has been edited by Kesha: Nov 28 2009, 12:29 PM

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

mockingbird farmer claims :

Yes, there are 11 flights in the Warren RO besides the one in question. During NONE of those fights was the door ever recorded open. I checked the frame structure and I was correct, the default value is closed. So in 42 hours of recorded flight, no 'signal' was ever sampled for that parameter, hence no binary 1 recorded.

is he making this up?

[onesliceshort]

A little additonal info for you all...

Our resident researcher and associate in Arlington, VA was made aware of a strange flyby performed in the wee hours of the morning, under the cover of night, about a week or two prior to 9/11. Witnesses he knew told him that what sounded like a large aircraft flew over their house/neighborhood-which is right along the official story attack jet's flight path just a mile or two from the pentagon. This flyover was loud and low that it shook their house and woke them from their sleep. This could have only been the plane they used to record the data because planes in the area landing or taking off from reagan national do NOT fly over this part of Arlington at all, let alone low, loud, and fast.I would surmise that the pilots for this plane would not need to open the cockpit door. At least they forgot to or didn't realize they needed to. For all we know, this plane did not have any type of human pilots housed in the cockpit at all.

This information is still developing...

This method would have been a HELL of a lot easier than manually fiddling
with a complex binary code.
Actually fly the ´official path´ beforehand with a functioning FDR unit.

As Aldo said, the cockpit door could have been overlooked. Look how
many people have been sniffing and probing every angle of the Pentagon
op for years and this info has taken everybody by surprise.
Why not the perps?

The NOC and East of Potomac witness testimony also adds weight to the FDR
being falsified this way.
It would certainly explain a lot.

The FDR at the Pentagon had no serial numbers.
It was ´found´ in various areas (entrance and ´C´ring).
It was ´found´ BY various people.
The time code on data extraction was different to the alleged
time of discovery - 3-4 hours EARLIER.
P4911T PROVING that the plane was too high to hit either
the lightpoles, the trailer or the building itself.
The fact that NO witness testimony bar Lloyd England´s
suggest an SOC path.
The above mentioned verified NOC witnesses.
( I STILL get a chill when I watch the CIT interview with the
ANC workers!)
Now this.

The FDR is a fabrication.
The Pentagon op isn´t a ´honeypot´ that should be ´ignored´ as suggested by some.
It was a f*ckup. We have tangible physical proof of an inside job.
´Ignore´it???
Are you f*cking mad??

Rant over (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/protest.gif)

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

mockingbird farmer is also claiming that :

The FLT DECK OPEN parameter was not added to the FDR frame (757-3 A2) until 1997. The plane was manufactured in 1991 using an earler frame structure which did not include the parameter, so a binary 0 for an unused data block.

[RickMason]

This is very cool info! I don't know how many wheels the "Official Theory" train has, but between the two 9/11 Truth groups I belong to(ae911truth and this one) we keep knocking them off and sooner or later the train has to derail. I'm just curious what it's gonna take to blow this wide open........I doubt that if Mrs. Olson herself walked up and kissed some of the nay-sayers square on the mouth and told 'em "it was a 'work'" they would believe it!!!
I'm going to forward this to all I can!

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack, the events in Shanksville, PA and the World Trade Center attack. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials along with Mainstream Media refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html for full member list.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/join to join.

[1] Hijacker Timeline - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17

[2] Common Strategy Prior to 9/11/2001 - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html

[3] Right click and save target as here to download csv file with "FLT DECK DOOR" parameter.

[Omega892R09]

Summary:

Unused pins, spare ports, etc. are tied to ground and are labelled as spare
in the third chart from the top of this post.

Assigned parameters are never 'floating' and will either see a logic 1, or
logic 0. In the case of the Flight Deck Door, it was reading ground which
means it was closed (logic 0).

Nice summary.

In other words, and following aircraft design regulations, the indication system for the door fails safe.

[Omega892R09]

A little additonal info for you all...

This information is still developing...

And very interesting too.

I had been wondering if something like this would emerge once you guys got the word out.

Well done all.

[SPreston]

A little additonal info for you all...

Our resident researcher and associate in Arlington, VA was made aware of a strange flyby performed in the wee hours of the morning, under the cover of night, about a week or two prior to 9/11. Witnesses he knew told him that what sounded like a large aircraft flew over their house/neighborhood-which is right along the official story attack jet's flight path just a mile or two from the pentagon. This flyover was loud and low that it shook their house and woke them from their sleep. This could have only been the plane they used to record the data IMHO because planes in the area landing or taking off from reagan national do NOT fly over this part of Arlington at all, let alone low, loud, and fast.I would surmise that the pilots for this plane would not need to open the cockpit door. At least they forgot to or didn't realize they needed to. For all we know, this plane did not have any type of human pilots housed in the cockpit at all.

This information is still developing...

Great work guys. This is the most likely scenario to explain the bogus Flight 77 FDR which was found near the Pentagon Entry Hole and also found near the C-Ring Exit Hole allegedly created by the now official focused cone of energy from the alleged exploding jet fuel.

From official US Department of Defense Pentagon 9/11 book:

http://aal77.com/pentagon_911_book/first_floor_areas.jpg <<1.3MB image file

http://aal77.com/pentagon_911_book/aa_fdr.jpg << 1.2MB image file

No sign of an aircraft or debris anywhere near this after-explosion fireball with one of the alleged downed light poles in the foreground

(IMG:http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f3ae476430d1.jpg)

Much much too high to hit the Pentagon 1st floor, but just about right for a recording mission flyover a few weeks early.

(IMG:http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6ab762f5d81d.jpg)


EDIT by painter: Preston, I've removed the imbedded image files but left the links to them intact. With a total of 2.5MB, they were making this page load VERY slowly, even w/ DSL.

This post has been edited by painter: Nov 28 2009, 05:28 PM

Reason for edit: removed oversize image files

[DonM]

UA 93 FDR data is available, isn't it? Has anyone had time to check to see if it has Flight Deck Door status?

[rob balsamo]

UA 93 FDR data is available, isn't it? Has anyone had time to check to see if it has Flight Deck Door status?

Yes, i checked it. It doesnt record FLT DECK DOOR status according to the NTSB. Its not a parameter listed for UA93.

Its a different airline, with a different FDR and of course a different plane (s/n).

apples and oranges basically.

However, when i checked with Rusty (UAL 757 Capt), he could have sworn the door had a sensor. If i get more information, i'll pass it on.

[Guest_Turbofan_*]

Flight 93 is also a different sample rate, word structure, etc. If I recall off the top, only 128 words per second
(which is half of Flight 77).

Not nearly as many parameters recorded for that flight. Don't let anyone make that parallel in a debate, it
is dead wrong.

[aerohead]

To me this is 1 of 2 things.


1- An error caused by a sloppy fabrication of the FDR info.

OR

2- A rouge patriot on the fabrication team who is leaving his
"signature" with this, and saying "FXXK YOU" to his tyrant masters
who own him.


I would like to think it was #2 and i think we are going to see alot more
of this . Just like the hero that hacked those emails that prove
the fraud of global warming and will land MANY of those assholes in
Prison, likely the puppet master himself Al Gore. The plans of the elite are falling
apart, be vigilant and prepare for the worst and push for the best. Revolution is in the air.
Be courageous and dont let up till they are ALL held accountable and we have our Republic
back.

I can almost see the finish line and THAT is a beautiful thing. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Devilsadvocate]

First of all- this has got to be something approaching the jackpot...

C-o-n-g-r-a-t-u-l-a-t-i-o-n-s-!!! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)

I've been wondering for years as to exactly how those guys managed to get through the cockpit doors to begin with.
There was a program in the late 70's relating to a new type of cockpit door to be fitted to airliners, in the aftermath of a series of highjackings carried out by the PLO.
The program mentioned that the new doors, while not bulletproof, would be nonetheless secure against any attempt to break them open by force. As a result, i found the 'Drinks-Trolley-as-a-ram'-scenario somewhat strange.

But that whole question aside, this has a different kind of significance to it altogether.

Assume there were no highjackers.
Assume the planes were controlled from the outside- or whatever else takes your fancy.
Then obviously the real culprits could not afford to leave any evidence recorded on any genuine flight recorder.
The question as to wether or not FDR data can be faked using a flight-simulator was already posed and answered positively by Rob above.
Painter pointed towards the problem of finding the FDR of a plane which evidently did not really strike the Pentagon at the impact site of the Pentagon already as well.
The data of the FDR in question might be precisely that:
A deliberate fake, to be used as "Evidence" in a situation were the culprits would be in some trouble unless a Flight Data Recorder was actually found.
I would also assume that there would be inevitable differences between the data recorded on board of the actual aircraft, and any fake created by way of a flight simulator- unless the actual FDR of the aircraft was available to the fakers.
(In other words- if the data in question was faked, it may have been faked before the actual events; otherwise they could simply have used most data from the actual FDR and only changed some details).

This leads me to a question:
Is a Flight simulator likely to have a similar sensor on the cockpit door as to the actual plane ?

Edit:
(If a flight simulator was involved, then it must by needs be equipped with a similar sensor since the "Cockpit Door Parameter" has been recorded.)

This post has been edited by Devilsadvocate: Nov 28 2009, 04:14 PM