Questions About Flight Door, How Do I Debunk a Debunker!
Nov 30 2009, 03:08 PM
Group: Student Forum Pilot
Joined: 29-November 09
From: A Wormhole outside of Chicago
Member No.: 4,724
Hi I just joined, as you can see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I got hooked on your forum in the middle of the night, while reading about the FDR and Flight 77 Flight Deck Doors not being open. I understand the part about this FDR not being for the actual flight. I got a few knit-picker debunkers, that have me going around in circles about stuff. I asked them to read your whole thread first, before commenting. This one has me stumped. You know more about it than I do, can anyone here explain it to me, so that I can give the poster a snappy comeback? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)
Yes, the FLT DECK DOOR value was CLOSED for the entire flight. You got me. Oh wait, the same parameter is the same for ALL recorded 12 flights. The pilots never got anything to eat or left the flight deck to go to the bathroom, not even on the long LA - DC flights. As a matter of fact, the door is NEVER recorded OPEN for any point ever when the FDR is recording. Very strange. The pilots must have worn those astronaut diapers.
Thoughts and advice: There are 42 HOURS of flight data in Warren RO. It is wise to check your observations for the last minutes or flight against the other 41 hours of recorded data. I don't know why the value is CLOSED for the entire 42 hours (that is one for the pilot folks to hash out), but if the parameter never changes and reason dictates that it should at some point, then I can conclude one of two things. The parameter was not being recorded and a default value was being stored, or the parameter being recorded is not what some think it is.
and after my reply, I got this:
The Flight Deck door parameter is also listed as "Not Working or Unconfirmed" on page 13 of the FDR report:
I'll see if I can track down the file 911files was working from.
The poster pulled it from another site, and only posted a thread link, instead of where this information really came from. I questioned their motive. I am a truth seeker. NOT A DEBUNKER or a TROLL. I just have to deal with them.
Lots of the other members, found this forum very interesting, and thanked me.
If you want to check out the thread, so that I can prove my honest intentions, read it here.
We're all on the same side.
Dec 1 2009, 10:50 AM
Joined: 13-August 06
Member No.: 1
Ok, I see this popping up a lot around the net so let me address it now.
Claim - P4T are not using the proper Data Frame Layout when showing the port location in his diagram. They are using 757-3, they should be using 757-2 which doesn't show a FLT DECK DOOR parameter. AA77 was a 757-2 airplane.
A- Those who make this claim are confusing the Data Frame Layout (DFL) number with Aircraft Type. 757-3b is the proper Data Frame Layout required for N644AA as listed here in the NTSB pdf for N644AA.
(bottom of page 2)
United 93 was also a 757-200 aircraft, but used 757-4 Data Frame Layout.
(also bottom of page 2)
DFL 757-3b (AA77, a 757-200) has the FLT DECK DOOR parameter which is why you see it listed under the parameters in the NTSB pdf and recorded in the data.
DFL 757-4 (UA93, a 757-200) does not list a FLT DECK DOOR parameter, which is why it is not listed in the NTSB pdf nor recorded.
Data Frame Layout (DFL) number does not correspond to specific aircraft type and are not interchangeable. The -2, -3b, -4 suffix are just revision numbers of the generic Data Frame Layout from Boeing. -3b is a specific revision for American Airlines and then was modified and custom made by American Airlines into 757-3b_1.txt specifically tailored for their 757-200 aircraft and needs specific to American Airlines. 757-4 is a revision number made for United Airlines specifically for their 757-200 Aircraft. United Airlines then custom made their own DFL from the generic Boeing 757-4 DFL into 757UALmap.xls, specifically tailor made for their 757-200 aircraft.
People who make the argument that the 757-2 DFL belongs to a 757-200 series aircraft are using a leap in logic just because they see a 2 after each number designation. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Using the same logic, DFL 757-4 should belong to a 757-400 aircraft... but such an aircraft does not exist. DFL 757-4 was made for United Airlines 757-200 series aircraft.
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