Questions About Flight Door, How Do I Debunk a Debunker!
Nov 30 2009, 03:08 PM
Group: Student Forum Pilot
Joined: 29-November 09
From: A Wormhole outside of Chicago
Member No.: 4,724
Hi I just joined, as you can see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I got hooked on your forum in the middle of the night, while reading about the FDR and Flight 77 Flight Deck Doors not being open. I understand the part about this FDR not being for the actual flight. I got a few knit-picker debunkers, that have me going around in circles about stuff. I asked them to read your whole thread first, before commenting. This one has me stumped. You know more about it than I do, can anyone here explain it to me, so that I can give the poster a snappy comeback? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)
Yes, the FLT DECK DOOR value was CLOSED for the entire flight. You got me. Oh wait, the same parameter is the same for ALL recorded 12 flights. The pilots never got anything to eat or left the flight deck to go to the bathroom, not even on the long LA - DC flights. As a matter of fact, the door is NEVER recorded OPEN for any point ever when the FDR is recording. Very strange. The pilots must have worn those astronaut diapers.
Thoughts and advice: There are 42 HOURS of flight data in Warren RO. It is wise to check your observations for the last minutes or flight against the other 41 hours of recorded data. I don't know why the value is CLOSED for the entire 42 hours (that is one for the pilot folks to hash out), but if the parameter never changes and reason dictates that it should at some point, then I can conclude one of two things. The parameter was not being recorded and a default value was being stored, or the parameter being recorded is not what some think it is.
and after my reply, I got this:
The Flight Deck door parameter is also listed as "Not Working or Unconfirmed" on page 13 of the FDR report:
I'll see if I can track down the file 911files was working from.
The poster pulled it from another site, and only posted a thread link, instead of where this information really came from. I questioned their motive. I am a truth seeker. NOT A DEBUNKER or a TROLL. I just have to deal with them.
Lots of the other members, found this forum very interesting, and thanked me.
If you want to check out the thread, so that I can prove my honest intentions, read it here.
We're all on the same side.
Dec 2 2009, 07:13 PM
Group: Student Forum Pilot
Joined: 28-November 09
Member No.: 4,705
The only manual we can use for definitive proof, is the American Airlines Manual for this model aircraft. A 757-223
Yes but as I said in another topic, this model has been upgrated with a new FDR which lists many parameters, so also require new installation, like the Flight deck door electric installation, that you probably could not find in a 757-223 manual :
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.
AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32.
The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80.
@ JFK : this :
is dated april 2006, which is a problem in our concern.
About the 4 seconds recording, do someone know if you open the door withing the 4 seconds, it will be listed as "open" at the forth second, even if it's now close ? I know 4 seconds is not enough to enter and struggle, but the more accurate we are, better it is. So if someone knows if it would be recorder even if you open or close the door within 4 seconds...
I mean, will the parameter "open" be recorded even you leave the door open less than 4 seconds ?
Another point :
I'm sure here is the point : "FliSAFE – Parameter Validation Tool provides the Capability of checking and reporting whether all mandatory parameters are correctly recorded within specified limits, resolution and accuracy , to be compliant with FAA/EASA/DGCA/IOSA or any other Civil Aviation Authority and requirement .
FliSAFE – Parameter Validation Tool is a very useful feature for Aircraft Maintenance Engineering/Flight Safety Department Personnel for automating the process of data validation which is otherwise hard to monitor manually FDR read outs to check whether mandatory parameters are correctly recorded or not. Parameter Validation Reports: for checking and reporting whether all mandatory & other parameters are correctly recorded with in the operational range/limits, as per standard Regulations. "
Actually, Flight Deck Door is not in that case, that's why there was no need to validate it.
Probably some parameters has to be validated, others like door sensors etc don't.
|Lo-Fi Version||Time is now: 23rd May 2013 - 07:16 PM|