Questions About Flight Door, How Do I Debunk a Debunker!
Nov 30 2009, 03:08 PM
Group: Student Forum Pilot
Joined: 29-November 09
From: A Wormhole outside of Chicago
Member No.: 4,724
Hi I just joined, as you can see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I got hooked on your forum in the middle of the night, while reading about the FDR and Flight 77 Flight Deck Doors not being open. I understand the part about this FDR not being for the actual flight. I got a few knit-picker debunkers, that have me going around in circles about stuff. I asked them to read your whole thread first, before commenting. This one has me stumped. You know more about it than I do, can anyone here explain it to me, so that I can give the poster a snappy comeback? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)
Yes, the FLT DECK DOOR value was CLOSED for the entire flight. You got me. Oh wait, the same parameter is the same for ALL recorded 12 flights. The pilots never got anything to eat or left the flight deck to go to the bathroom, not even on the long LA - DC flights. As a matter of fact, the door is NEVER recorded OPEN for any point ever when the FDR is recording. Very strange. The pilots must have worn those astronaut diapers.
Thoughts and advice: There are 42 HOURS of flight data in Warren RO. It is wise to check your observations for the last minutes or flight against the other 41 hours of recorded data. I don't know why the value is CLOSED for the entire 42 hours (that is one for the pilot folks to hash out), but if the parameter never changes and reason dictates that it should at some point, then I can conclude one of two things. The parameter was not being recorded and a default value was being stored, or the parameter being recorded is not what some think it is.
and after my reply, I got this:
The Flight Deck door parameter is also listed as "Not Working or Unconfirmed" on page 13 of the FDR report:
I'll see if I can track down the file 911files was working from.
The poster pulled it from another site, and only posted a thread link, instead of where this information really came from. I questioned their motive. I am a truth seeker. NOT A DEBUNKER or a TROLL. I just have to deal with them.
Lots of the other members, found this forum very interesting, and thanked me.
If you want to check out the thread, so that I can prove my honest intentions, read it here.
We're all on the same side.
Dec 2 2009, 10:00 PM
Joined: 13-August 06
Member No.: 1
I think we may have squashed the GL arguments once and for all without even using the American Airline MX Manual.
Attached are 3 csv files. You can open them with Excel or Open Office (free on the net). They were copy/pasted from the RO2 decode we performed which you can find here.
Reserved.csv are all the reserved parameters for future use on that aircraft if the Airline wants to hook them up to be recorded at a later date.
Reserved_Spares.csv are all the Reserved Spares.
Some of the above are being recorded as you can see the digits are changing. But some I'm sure are not. Therefore you see a 0. Being that it is under Reserved, clearly some were hooked up as a "nice-to-know" parameter and the heading was never changed in the DFDAU. Those where you see a 0 may be hooked up, or may be grounded which show a zero. But it doesnt matter as they are listed as Reserved.
The last file is the most important.
Comparator.csv shows the recording for the Capt and FO Comparator.
The comparator compares Capt instruments to FO instruments to make sure they are both reading equally, if they arent within a certain tolerance, you get an alert. This is a MASTER WARN. RED with high pitched Bells/Dings!
Note that the Comparator_Fail_FO have empty cells yet the others are recording a digit. The empty cells are due to perhaps a broken line between the sensor and the FDAU.
Conclusion - (Capt Comparator showing a fail notwithstanding as that looks like it may be another smoking gun)
1. If FLT_DECK_DOOR was reserved for future use and not hooked up to record any sensors, you would see it listed with the other reserved parameters as RSVD_FLT_DECK_DOOR
2. If the data was labeled RSVD_FLT_DECK_DOOR, our article would not exist as we would know its a Reserved parameter perhaps for future use and may not be a valid recording.
3. If the FLT_DECK_DOOR was not recording but intended to record sensors. You would see blank cells as you see in the above COMPARATOR_FAIL_FO.
The FLT_DECK_DOOR was recording to the FDR and it was closed. The NTSB/FBI need to explain how a closed door indication provided by their data enabled a hijack to take place on AA77.
Copy/paste this post everywhere a duhbunker is spinning, and then watch him twist in the wind.
click link for downloads.
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