Questions About Flight Door, How Do I Debunk a Debunker!
Nov 30 2009, 03:08 PM
Group: Student Forum Pilot
Joined: 29-November 09
From: A Wormhole outside of Chicago
Member No.: 4,724
Hi I just joined, as you can see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I got hooked on your forum in the middle of the night, while reading about the FDR and Flight 77 Flight Deck Doors not being open. I understand the part about this FDR not being for the actual flight. I got a few knit-picker debunkers, that have me going around in circles about stuff. I asked them to read your whole thread first, before commenting. This one has me stumped. You know more about it than I do, can anyone here explain it to me, so that I can give the poster a snappy comeback? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)
Yes, the FLT DECK DOOR value was CLOSED for the entire flight. You got me. Oh wait, the same parameter is the same for ALL recorded 12 flights. The pilots never got anything to eat or left the flight deck to go to the bathroom, not even on the long LA - DC flights. As a matter of fact, the door is NEVER recorded OPEN for any point ever when the FDR is recording. Very strange. The pilots must have worn those astronaut diapers.
Thoughts and advice: There are 42 HOURS of flight data in Warren RO. It is wise to check your observations for the last minutes or flight against the other 41 hours of recorded data. I don't know why the value is CLOSED for the entire 42 hours (that is one for the pilot folks to hash out), but if the parameter never changes and reason dictates that it should at some point, then I can conclude one of two things. The parameter was not being recorded and a default value was being stored, or the parameter being recorded is not what some think it is.
and after my reply, I got this:
The Flight Deck door parameter is also listed as "Not Working or Unconfirmed" on page 13 of the FDR report:
I'll see if I can track down the file 911files was working from.
The poster pulled it from another site, and only posted a thread link, instead of where this information really came from. I questioned their motive. I am a truth seeker. NOT A DEBUNKER or a TROLL. I just have to deal with them.
Lots of the other members, found this forum very interesting, and thanked me.
If you want to check out the thread, so that I can prove my honest intentions, read it here.
We're all on the same side.
Feb 12 2010, 10:38 PM
Group: Private Forum Pilot
Joined: 11-February 10
Member No.: 4,909
Very much a newbie to this forum, thread, topic. No relevant qualifications to declare, unfortunately, although my father has recently retired after 30 years service as an air traffic controller (Tullamarine and Essendon airports, Melbourne) and amateur pilot. I'm guessing that won't get me much more than a high 5 (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
But before I go any further, let me say congratulations and thanks to everyone for all your hard work.
I've been following this discussion with interest over the last day or two, and have been able to digest most of it, apart from some of the more esoteric technical issues. I understand enough, at least, to be convinced that the flight deck door on a 757 should have been equipped with a sensor, and that the FDR data in this case revealed fairly unequivocally that the door did remain closed for the flight's duration.
This is, of course, if we may assume that the FDR in question was in fact recovered from the Pentagon plane wreckage - which, of course, we cannot.
I want to emphasise that I have read the 23 pages on the original thread, and I am not expecting Rob or anybody else to repeat themselves in terms of whether or not a properly functioning sensor was installed on flight 77.
In spite of this, I hope it is not frowned upon for me to come here seeking support from anyone qualified to help me dispell the claims of a debunker who is making some fairly bold but confident statements on a Youtube bru-ha-ha. I can appreciate that most P4Ts are reluctant to enter the sleazy YT domain, but nonetheless I feel that it is a critically important battlefield for the truth movement, so here I am.
The link, if anyone is interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWZHKIg3Cs
In response to my arguments along the lines that AA77 could not have been hijacked....should I name him?....yes, Ill name him: Merlin5x5 said this (over the course of two separate posts):
"The Flight Deck Door sensor is a red herring, to make you look foolish. No Boeing aircraft has ever been fitted with a flight deck door sensor, globally.
Where is the sensor, or the wire for it?"
"...you are simply LYING about a flight deck door sensor. IF you have a commercial pilot who differs, post him.
The FAA has standards called FARs, Flight Aviation Regs. You can search thru them, they are online. Find one referring to the door sensor.
It's just not there. Boeing doors and doorframes are plastiboard, with sliding locks. Haven't you ever been on a plane?"
(I figure that this FAR business is a red herring in itself, so I haven't bothered to chase up that reference.)
Now, personally, I don't keep spare aeroplane parts lying around my house, so I was hoping - in the spirit of the title of this thread - someone might be able to advise the best way for a newbie to definitively put this clown in his place. After all, he did challenge me to find a commercial pilot who was prepared to dispute his claims. I feel a bit like a pathetic kid being picked on in the schoolyard, running up to his older brother for help, but.....perhaps a short quote from someone would do the trick....? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)
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