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Questions About Flight Door, How Do I Debunk a Debunker!

JFK
post Dec 2 2009, 07:45 PM
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@ Jupiter, I have looked throught that section of the manual and every schematic is dated the same, however the "effective pages" section which lists changes to the diagrams shows no changes whatsoever to that page.

Also I do not appreciate your ripping that page and hosting it elsewhere.

@ Warren, Is this OK as far as the interface ?

( sorry about the crop, but as Jupiter has demonstrated it is neccessary. )
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rob balsamo
post Dec 2 2009, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (JFK @ Dec 2 2009, 06:45 PM) *
@ Warren, Is this OK as far as the interface ?

( sorry about the crop, but as Jupiter has demonstrated it is neccessary. )



So it appears the 757-200SF doesnt have an EICAS Crew Alert for the FLT DECK DOOR. This makes sense as a 757-200SF is a Freighter. lol
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JFK
post Dec 2 2009, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Dec 2 2009, 06:50 PM) *
So it appears the 757-200SF doesnt have an EICAS Crew Alert for the FLT DECK DOOR. This makes sense as a 757-200SF is a Freighter. lol


Actually it does have a warning light, 52-71-01...

Ever try untangeling spagetti so you can post the relevant portion ?
Well, here is my attempt.

And Jupiter, this page is the addition to the manual made in April of 2006 denotated by the "A" at "page 101.1A".
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rob balsamo
post Dec 2 2009, 08:38 PM
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A Warning light and an EICAS alert are two different things.

EICAS Alert, you will get audible dings in the cockpit along with a Master Caution (or Warning) light blinking at you in the face.

Although you can silence the alert and warning light, I assume they dont want this on a Freighter as the door is probably open for most of the flight if not the whole time... if they even have the door installed. Although the manual suggests one is installed on this aircraft.
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solequinox
post Dec 2 2009, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE (Jupiter @ Dec 2 2009, 05:13 PM) *
@ JFK : this :

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5027/fcdps4.png

is dated april 2006, which is a problem in our concern.


The pages for the manual all have different dates. The cover says the original release date is 2000, but the installation pages to install the actual proximity switch and doorjamb are listed as June 1990. Were they installing these cabin door proximity switches on these types of planes as early as 1990?

This manual is for the 757-200SF which is a converted 757-200 for cargo use? Doesn't it make sense that there would be more concern about a proper functioning cabin door sensor and FDR system capable of accurately recording it on passenger jets as opposed to cargo jets?

It seems to me at this point that it is highly likely that there was a door sensor installed on Flight 77, although some more documentation would be nice. I would like to look into the various components of the FDR recording system and how they interact with each other and the door sensor. If anyone has this technical information please share.
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JFK
post Dec 2 2009, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Dec 2 2009, 07:38 PM) *
A Warning light and an EICAS alert are two different things.

EICAS Alert, you will get audible dings in the cockpit along with a Master Caution (or Warning) light blinking at you in the face.

Although you can silence the alert and warning light, I assume they dont want this on a Freighter as the door is probably open for most of the flight if not the whole time... if they even have the door installed. Although the manual suggests one is installed on this aircraft.


This manual covers a fleet of 36 aircraft. FM_025, page 63.
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rob balsamo
post Dec 2 2009, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (JFK @ Dec 2 2009, 07:58 PM) *
This manual covers a fleet of 36 aircraft. FM_025, page 63.


Yeah, what I meant by "this aircraft", I meant the 757-200SF in that particular Airline fleet. Not a specific tail number.

smile.gif
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JFK
post Dec 2 2009, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (solequinox @ Dec 2 2009, 07:50 PM) *
The pages for the manual all have different dates. The cover says the original release date is 2000, but the installation pages to install the actual proximity switch and doorjamb are listed as June 1990. Were they installing these cabin door proximity switches on these types of planes as early as 1990?


If 737's are used as an example, then yes that may be assumed as they also use proxy switches...
My 747 manual dated 1990 says those used plunger switches.

QUOTE (solequinox @ Dec 2 2009, 07:50 PM) *
This manual is for the 757-200SF which is a converted 757-200 for cargo use? Doesn't it make sense that there would be more concern about a proper functioning cabin door sensor and FDR system capable of accurately recording it on passenger jets as opposed to cargo jets?

Correct. Yes I think that is a valid assumption... But remember they were converted from passenger jets.
I personally don't think they would waste the labor to strip the proxy switches.

QUOTE (solequinox @ Dec 2 2009, 07:50 PM) *
It seems to me at this point that it is highly likely that there was a door sensor installed on Flight 77, although some more documentation would be nice. I would like to look into the various components of the FDR recording system and how they interact with each other and the door sensor. If anyone has this technical information please share.


I agree a "snapshot" of the evolving manual dated pre 9/11 would be nice, however I do not forsee anyone aquireing one...

We also need to be very careful as these manuals do contain information which potential future terrorists could use to their advantage so I would not reccommend "sharing freely".

Benign portions relating to this topic IMO are OK, but there is much other info mixed in on each page.
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rob balsamo
post Dec 2 2009, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE
Ok folks,

I think we may have squashed the GL arguments once and for all without even using the American Airline MX Manual.

Attached are 3 csv files. You can open them with Excel or Open Office (free on the net). They were copy/pasted from the RO2 decode we performed which you can find here.

Reserved.csv are all the reserved parameters for future use on that aircraft if the Airline wants to hook them up to be recorded at a later date.

Reserved_Spares.csv are all the Reserved Spares.

Some of the above are being recorded as you can see the digits are changing. But some I'm sure are not. Therefore you see a 0. Being that it is under Reserved, clearly some were hooked up as a "nice-to-know" parameter and the heading was never changed in the DFDAU. Those where you see a 0 may be hooked up, or may be grounded which show a zero. But it doesnt matter as they are listed as Reserved.

The last file is the most important.

Comparator.csv shows the recording for the Capt and FO Comparator.

The comparator compares Capt instruments to FO instruments to make sure they are both reading equally, if they arent within a certain tolerance, you get an alert. This is a MASTER WARN. RED with high pitched Bells/Dings!

Note that the Comparator_Fail_FO have empty cells yet the others are recording a digit. The empty cells are due to perhaps a broken line between the sensor and the FDAU.

Conclusion - (Capt Comparator showing a fail notwithstanding as that looks like it may be another smoking gun)

1. If FLT_DECK_DOOR was reserved for future use and not hooked up to record any sensors, you would see it listed with the other reserved parameters as RSVD_FLT_DECK_DOOR

2. If the data was labeled RSVD_FLT_DECK_DOOR, our article would not exist as we would know its a Reserved parameter perhaps for future use and may not be a valid recording.

3. If the FLT_DECK_DOOR was not recording but intended to record sensors. You would see blank cells as you see in the above COMPARATOR_FAIL_FO.

The FLT_DECK_DOOR was recording to the FDR and it was closed. The NTSB/FBI need to explain how a closed door indication provided by their data enabled a hijack to take place on AA77.

Copy/paste this post everywhere a duhbunker is spinning, and then watch him twist in the wind.


click link for downloads.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10779880
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albertchampion
post Dec 2 2009, 10:58 PM
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the best site. love the desire to discover the truth.

applause. and take a bow.
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JFK
post Dec 3 2009, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (Turbofan @ Nov 30 2009, 06:05 PM) *
JFK, if I may I'd like to contact you further about this circuit and diagrams.

Thanks!
Tino


Nope, not any more.

From now on any and all propriatary documents I possess will remain as such thanks to your actions.

Great work Tino.
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wstutt
post Dec 3 2009, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE (JFK @ Dec 7 2009, 11:45 PM) *
<snip>
@ Warren, Is this OK as far as the interface ?

( sorry about the crop, but as Jupiter has demonstrated it is neccessary. )
Sorry JFK, what are you referring to? Do you mean the 4 images you previously posted?

Warren.
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JFK
post Dec 3 2009, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (wstutt @ Dec 3 2009, 06:56 PM) *
Sorry JFK, what are you referring to? Do you mean the 4 images you previously posted?

Warren.


Actually 6 since I did crop out the irrelevant portions of the full page of the last one ( I thought ) you saw all the way back to the proxy switch...

But it does not matter. Several members here have proven to me that they can not be trusted so there will be no more posts like that from me sadly.
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REDSHIFT
post Dec 4 2009, 12:45 AM
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Ok guys, do 757's usually have their own separate heads in the flight decks? Inquiring minds want to know. Someone is trying to tell me that they are right outside the flight deck door. I don't fly. I don't know. blink.gif
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JFK
post Dec 4 2009, 01:01 AM
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QUOTE (REDSHIFT @ Dec 3 2009, 11:45 PM) *
Ok guys, do 757's usually have their own separate heads in the flight decks? Inquiring minds want to know. Someone is trying to tell me that they are right outside the flight deck door. I don't fly. I don't know. blink.gif


As I said in the other thread, when the flight deck door is fully open ( Opens away from the flight deck and towards the passenger cabin ) the forward lav door is behind the flight deck door.

In other words if the pilot wants to pee, he has to open the flight deck door, walk through, and close the flight deck door to gain access to the lav door.
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wstutt
post Dec 4 2009, 04:34 PM
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Hi JFK,

QUOTE (JFK @ Dec 9 2009, 12:04 AM) *
Actually 6 since I did crop out the irrelevant portions of the full page of the last one ( I thought ) you saw all the way back to the proxy switch...

But it does not matter. Several members here have proven to me that they can not be trusted so there will be no more posts like that from me sadly.
That's unfortunate, I didn't see the last two. I see the attachments for the first 4 I saw have now been deleted.

Warren.
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JFK
post Dec 4 2009, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE (wstutt @ Dec 4 2009, 03:34 PM) *
Hi JFK,

That's unfortunate, I didn't see the last two. I see the attachments for the first 4 I saw have now been deleted.

Warren.


Nevermind, My screw up.
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REDSHIFT
post Dec 10 2009, 07:24 PM
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Paging ROB! I've got some overwhelming information that was just posted over a FCN today. It's on my thread http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/view...64311a858f6f739
on page 9 Poster: Fawn
She's pasted numerous topics from 9/11. too many for me to find out if they are all new to this forum. I already posted the part about two flights landing in cleveland in the Flight 93 section of this forum. The other interseting part was about the guys in Ft. Collins CO. doing secret work on the Sky Warrior just prior to 9/11.
It starts out with:
QUOTE
SECRET GLOBAL HAWK REFIT FOR SKY WARRIOR!, as 911 Penta.hit? Secret 911 Grand Jury in NY!
author: click go the pieces!

I'll go do a search to see if your guys have covered it yet.
I watched Jesse Ventura last night, and he interviewed one of the guys who found a black box at WTC, a friend of his worked for American Airlines, is in fear for her life, so she wouldn't do an interview. She stated that she had been in contact with Flight 93, and said that the hijackers were already in the cockpit, before the pilots got there, and they spoke English. I never heard that one, either.
I still don't think that 93 went down in Shanksville, if it did have 200 onboard that were unlaoded at Cleveland, it's place was taken by something else. The black box would have shown it landing at Cleveland, too.
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wstutt
post Dec 12 2009, 05:39 AM
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QUOTE (REDSHIFT @ Dec 16 2009, 12:24 AM) *
<snip>
I still don't think that 93 went down in Shanksville, if it did have 200 onboard that were unlaoded at Cleveland, it's place was taken by something else. The black box would have shown it landing at Cleveland, too.
The UAL93 FDR file I decoded doesn't show the aircraft landing at Cleveland.

Warren.
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AirmanDave
post Jan 10 2010, 04:09 AM
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So far in my experience, if something fails a light comes on. If the Flight Deck Door microswitch/proximity switch (I dont care what it is) fails (aka loss of power), an annunciator will illuminate (Door Ajar/Flight Deck/whatever). It's the basis of the dark cockpit concept! If you have a door annunciator, if the door is open, or the switch has failed, the door annunciator will illuminate! I assume the same information is being sent to the FDR of course.
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