Another Question For Warren Stutt, concerning altitude Options

[Craig Ranke CIT]

Warren Stutt,

You must be aware that people are referencing you to suggest that your findings contradict the statements by P4T that the last reported altitude in the NTSB data shows a value too high to hit the light poles and the building.

Are you willing to set the record straight here and at j.ref by publicly agreeing that your findings in the data concerning altitude CONFIRM the findings of P4T that it shows the plane too high to hit the light poles and the building?

[rob balsamo]

Warren,


Not sure what you did with your calculations, but i double checked the data with this. They match.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/e6bcalc.html

Edit to add: Looks like you are missing Heading. You need heading to get your wind correction angle from True course (Track Angle True). You need to adjust Mag heading to True Heading as i didnt see any parameter for True Heading.

Groundspeed is within 1-2 knots of Airspeed. In your data, it is dead on for the last data point. 483 knots with a wind speed of 10.5 knots. You dont have wind direction decoded, but the NTSB data shows 336.8 degrees. DCA reports 330 at 10 knots. Airport wind reports are always in terms of 10's of degrees. 330, 340, 350.. .etc.

Groundspeed is calculated independent of airspeed.

Furthermore, the FMS onboard the aircraft calculates the winds exactly as did Regan National Airport.

Wind direction and speed is calculated by the FMS using course, heading, groundspeed and airspeed (as you will see in the above calculator).

3 independent sources match, this means the pitot-static system was working flawlessly.

As for overspeed. You are correct. However, this still doesnt prove the data is from N644AA. Nor does it prove the data was erroneous or "at an offset, reading way too high". Finally, to blindy trust any of the data is absurd. You may feel differently. We want answers for all lthe conflicts. Others are attempting "Nothing to see here folks, move along".

In other words, if there was a problem with the pitot-static system, you would not have 3 independent sets of data within 1-2 knots of speed, nor wind direction/speed matching with an Airport report.

[wstutt]

Hi Rob,

Warren,


Not sure what you did with your calculations, but i double checked the data with this. They match.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/e6bcalc.html

Edit to add: Looks like you are missing Heading. You need heading to get your wind correction angle from True course (Track Angle True). You need to adjust Mag heading to True Heading as i didnt see any parameter for True Heading.

Groundspeed is within 1-2 knots of Airspeed. In your data, it is dead on for the last data point. 483 knots with a wind speed of 10.5 knots. You dont have wind direction decoded, but the NTSB data shows 336.8 degrees. DCA reports 330 at 10 knots. Airport wind reports are always in terms of 10's of degrees. 330, 340, 350.. .etc.

Groundspeed is calculated independent of airspeed.

Furthermore, the FMS onboard the aircraft calculates the winds exactly as did Regan National Airport.

Wind direction and speed is calculated by the FMS using course, heading, groundspeed and airspeed (as you will see in the above calculator).

3 independent sources match, this means the pitot-static system was working flawlessly.

I found that I was treating the wind direction as the the direction it is blowing to rather than from.

I have added WIND DIRECTION TRUE and TRUE HEADING CAPT to my decode (version 1.6)

The last values I have are:
TRUE AIRSPEED (KT) = 488
TRUE HEADING CAPT (DEG) = 61.2
WIND SPEED (KNOTS) = 10.5
WIND DIRECTION TRUE (DEG) = 334.3
GROUNDSPEED CAPT (KNOTS) = 483
TRACK ANGLE TRUE (DEG) = 61.5

If I enter these TRUE AIRSPEED (KT), TRUE HEADING CAPT (DEG), GROUNDSPEED CAPT (KNOTS) and TRACK ANGLE TRUE (DEG) values in to the "Wind Speed" and "Wind Direction" sections of the calculator page you linked to (I'm presuming TRACK ANGLE TRUE (DEG) is Course) then I get a calculated wind speed and wind direction of 6 and 34 respectively instead of 10.5 and 334.3 recorded in the FDR file respectively.

If I enter these TRUE AIRSPEED, TRUE HEADING CAPT, WIND SPEED (KNOTS) and WIND DIRECTION TRUE (DEG) values in to the "Course, Ground Speed, And Wind Correction Angle" section of the calculator page you linked to, I get a ground speed of 488 knots rather than the 483 knots recorded in the FDR file.

As for overspeed. You are correct. However, this still doesnt prove the data is from N644AA. Nor does it prove the data was erroneous or "at an offset, reading way too high". Finally, to blindy trust any of the data is absurd. You may feel differently. We want answers for all lthe conflicts. Others are attempting "Nothing to see here folks, move along".

In other words, if there was a problem with the pitot-static system, you would not have 3 independent sets of data within 1-2 knots of speed, nor wind direction/speed matching with an Airport report.

I agree that the overspeed does not prove the data is from N644AA, nor does overspeed prove the data is erroneous. I am only looking to see whether the data could have come from a plane crashing in to the Pentagon.

Warren.