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Who Is Ethically Responsible?, Are NTSB, NASA, Boeing, or AIAA responsible, or engineers?

dadeets
post Apr 21 2010, 09:58 PM
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I posted a topic under United 175 section, but probably should have posted it more broadly. Here is what I posted:

I submitted a comment to the AIAA (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) Aerospace America Forum. It is a monitored forum, so they had to be OK with the submittal.

Posted 19 April 2010
A Responsibility to Explain an Aeronautical Improbability
Dwain Deets
NASA Dryden Flight Research Center (Senior Executive Service - retired)
AIAA Associate Fellow

The airplane was UA175, a Boeing 767-200, shortly before crashing into World Trade Center Tower 2. Based on analysis of radar data, the National Transportation and Safety Board reported the groundspeed just before impact as 510 knots. This is well beyond the maximum operating velocity of 360 knots, and maximum dive velocity of 410 knots. The possibilities as I see them are: (1) this wasn’t a standard 767-200; (2) the radar data was compromised in some manner; (3) the NTSB analysis was erroneous; or (4) the 767 flew well beyond its flight envelope, was controllable, and managed to hit a relatively small target. Which organization has the greater responsibility for acknowledging the elephant in the room? The NTSB, NASA, Boeing, or the AIAA? Have engineers authored papers, but the AIAA or NASA won’t publish them? Or, does the ethical responsibility lie not with organizations, but with individual aeronautical engineers? Have engineers just looked the other way?

http://www.aerospaceamerica.org/Pages/DiscussionForum.aspx

Dwain
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Bruce Sinclair
post Apr 27 2010, 07:33 PM
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Great questions, Dwain! Please post any answers you receive.
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albertchampion
post Apr 27 2010, 07:49 PM
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from my perspective, it is worse than that.

there are rags dedicated to aviation[flying, aopa pilot, smithsonian's air & space] where these issues have gone/go unexamined.

why is that do you think?
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SanderO
post Apr 27 2010, 09:22 PM
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As noted on another thread in these forums the evidence/data doesn't add up with so many aspects of 911 and Dwain has shown a light on the UAL175 data.

The curious aspect of the speed data is that the speed of impact seems to be rather irrelevant to what happened. What would have been the damage to the building of a 300 knot collision as opposed to a 400 knot collision? Neither hitting up there would "knock" the towers over... that is for sure. It;s likely that bother would destroy the facade columns and a fair amount of the fuel would enter the buildings and start fires, fires that were seemingly not hot enough to weaken enough of the steel in the right place to drop enough mass to cause a top down avalanche. The planes strikes seem to be cover for the real engineered destruction.

So why put out all that bizarre data?

It almost seems like the investigation has tossed out all sorts of chaff (false data) so that independent investigators cannot connect the dots and solve the "crime". So the investigation begins to look more and more like a cover up and indeed may have been part of the over all plan. Covering your tracks.

So why are these professional organizations such as the AAIA or the AIA or the ASME and so forth not looking into these anomalies?

We need a working hypothesis for this.
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rob balsamo
post Apr 27 2010, 09:39 PM
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Good work Dwain...

Thanks.
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GroundPounder
post Apr 28 2010, 07:25 AM
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bravo dwain !
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Sanders
post Apr 28 2010, 11:17 AM
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People, most people for the most part (99.99% - including most "truthers") have no idea how insidious the control the people behind the curtain wield. They are everywhere, they are smart, they have been digging tunnels into the political machinery while creating the very infrastructure of our establishment very carefully and deliberately for a full century. They have their lackies everywhere. At every turn there is someone close by to obfuscate, misdirect or falsify.

Who should be held accountable? Those that are behind it all first, their helpers second, and the bureaucrats beneath them who tow the line without understanding what they are a party to for their ignorance and willingness to place job security above their country third.

Unfortunately, "conspiracy" is a bad-word these days, people who use the word are viewed as nut-jobs. But until people understand how conspiratorial the basis for our very system is, from the big banks to the FED to the leadership in government, and that the real control is happening elsewhere, from behind all that, people are just going to be continually confused, throw up their hands, and keep asking "who is responsible". There are degrees of responsibility, they extend in a gradient from the top-dogs right down to you and me.

IMHO.
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dadeets
post Apr 28 2010, 12:02 PM
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QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 27 2010, 07:33 PM) *
Great questions, Dwain! Please post any answers you receive.


I received this reply offline from a friend who is a Fellow in the AIAA. Since it was off line, I won't reveal his name, but it does expose a line of thinking.

"Who was responsible to investigate the events of 9/11? It was the Commission established by the Congress and signed by the President (PL 107-306)

"I believe any statement is now judged and characterized according to one's own assumptions, opinions and beliefs.

"Google "9/11" and you get 106,000,000 hits.

"I rest my case."
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dadeets
post Apr 29 2010, 02:10 PM
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QUOTE (dadeets @ Apr 28 2010, 12:02 PM) *
"I rest my case."


I followed up with this individual, thanking him for responding. Even though I didn't share his viewpoint, I found it valuable to have his viewpoint expressed. Much better for us to have some understanding of where people like him are coming from, rather than just having silence.

His further response was:

"Like politics, this subject is now totally in the domain of the subjective."
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rob balsamo
post Apr 29 2010, 03:55 PM
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And for those wondering who Dwain "dadeets" Deets is above.....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core#Deets
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SanderO
post Apr 29 2010, 04:34 PM
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I've always said you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

To establish the facts of this case we need not only scientific expertise and tools, but access to the actual evidence and the officials are withholding so much of it.

The truth movement is largely left to use the very little evidence available and speculate.

Why can't we see the black boxes, or the structural plans of the WTC... or have all the video of the pentagon?

If all this evidence supports the OCT then it should be available.

Withholding it leads to one conclusion - the evidence would contradict the OCT, but ...

We need it to prove that and they won't give it up.
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JimMac
post Apr 29 2010, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (SanderO @ Apr 29 2010, 04:34 PM) *
I've always said you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

To establish the facts of this case we need not only scientific expertise and tools, but access to the actual evidence and the officials are withholding so much of it.

The truth movement is largely left to use the very little evidence available and speculate.

Why can't we see the black boxes, or the structural plans of the WTC... or have all the video of the pentagon?

If all this evidence supports the OCT then it should be available.

Withholding it leads to one conclusion - the evidence would contradict the OCT, but ...

We need it to prove that and they won't give it up.


This ties in with something that i was thinking about yesterday. As a Canadian, i could not imagine a situation where 'terrorists' attacked our Parliament with an airplane, or missile or whatever, and the RCMP was allowed to take all the security camera footage and not release it to the public because it was 'classified'. The public here would go crazy over it, Gov would be turned over.

In the US your Gov is not accountable to the people. So what do you call that? I call it Fascism.. its no different than Cuba.
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SanderO
post Apr 29 2010, 07:42 PM
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We don't have a democracy, we have a hypocracy!
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tnemelckram
post Apr 29 2010, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE
We don't have a democracy, we have a hypocracy!


How about a kleptocracy?
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albertchampion
post Apr 29 2010, 08:13 PM
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personally, i think that conspiracy is a very good word. that describes the way the world works quite accurately.

it is the conspirators and their lackeys that work assiduously to denigrate the word. to try and make the ignorati think that conspiracies don't exist.

well, as i have said many times previously, to paraphrase h rap brown, conspiracies are as american as apple pie.

here is a good site that explicates some of the conspirators....

http://www.jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/
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dadeets
post May 4 2010, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (dadeets @ Apr 21 2010, 08:58 PM) *
Posted 19 April 2010
A Responsibility to Explain an Aeronautical Improbability
Dwain Deets
NASA Dryden Flight Research Center (Senior Executive Service - retired)
AIAA Associate Fellow

The airplane was UA175, a Boeing 767-200, shortly before crashing into World Trade Center Tower 2. Based on analysis of radar data, the National Transportation and Safety Board reported the groundspeed just before impact as 510 knots. This is well beyond the maximum operating velocity of 360 knots, and maximum dive velocity of 410 knots. The possibilities as I see them are: (1) this wasn’t a standard 767-200; (2) the radar data was compromised in some manner; (3) the NTSB analysis was erroneous; or (4) the 767 flew well beyond its flight envelope, was controllable, and managed to hit a relatively small target. Which organization has the greater responsibility for acknowledging the elephant in the room? The NTSB, NASA, Boeing, or the AIAA? Have engineers authored papers, but the AIAA or NASA won’t publish them? Or, does the ethical responsibility lie not with organizations, but with individual aeronautical engineers? Have engineers just looked the other way?


This post remained up on the AIAA website for two weeks, and actually in the lead position the entire time. Today, it was taken down.

I'm guessing this is a very rare occurrence. Since the discussion forum is moderated, this means someone of higher authority had to weigh in and tell the moderator to take it down.

Dwain
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IslandPilot
post Jun 24 2010, 03:22 PM
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Who is ETHICALLY RESPONSIBLE?

I'm from the "Old School", and still believe "Aviation Safety is Everybody's Business".

If that's true, maybe I have an ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITY to wake up and TAKE ACTION, just like Dwain has done.

A long time ago, I must've been "weak minded" while working for a Part 135 Freight Hauler. My FAA Maintence Guy "Impressed" upon me, my "RESPONSIBILITIES" toward "Anything related to AVIATION SAFETY".

As long as I hold any FAA Certificate, (Pilot, Mechanic, ATC, AME, Airport operaor, etc), he told me
if I became AWARE of any ISSUE or PROBLEM that MIGHT be RELATED to AVIATION SAFETY,
That I have the DIRECT RESPONSIBILITY to REPORT, and/or to TAKE ACTION to resolve the SAFETY issue.
If it was a SAFETY ISSUE to be REPORTED to someone else; that I still had the RESPONSIBILITY to ENSURE that proper ACTION had been taken to resolve the ISSUE.

If I failed to take proper ACTION to address and resolve the Safety Issue, or didnt ENSURE it was resloved, I would be HELD ACCOUNTABLE, and could lose my license, and/or go to jail!

And it didn't matter what the "FIELD" or "AREA" of AVIATION SAFETY was... If I'm a Pilot who encounters an AIRPORT problem.... or if I'm a Mechanic who encounters an OPS problem... In the Air or on the GROUND... It is my DIRECT RESPONSIBILITY to ADDRESS EVERY Avaition Safety Related Issue I become aware of.

I do not subscribe to the idea of: "NOTHING HAPPENS, TILL SOMETHING HAPPENS!" that I've heard coming out of the "System" lately The idea of "burying one's head" or "looking the other way" or "not looking at all" until "something happens" is not how we ACHIEVED the WORLD'S SAFEST Air Transportation System prior to 9/11.

I came here from the Archetects and Engineers for 9/11 truth site. Over there, Mr. Richard Gage, a professional ARCHETITECT, gives a well reasoned and documented presentation, FOCUSED ENTIRELY WITHIN HIS AREA of EXPERTISE. He explains WHY, the aircraft that allegedly struck the two WTC Towers, and the building fires allegedly resulting from burning aircraft fuel, were not the most likely cause of the complete destruction of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7.

In conclusion, Mr. GAGE tells us that it is not IMPOSSIBLE for those aircraft and the burning fuel to destroy those buildings... Only that the LIKELIHOOD, or the PROBABILITY of, the aircraft/fire scenero in the destruction of the buildings is: "FAR LESS THAN ONE PERCENT (1%).

Those findings give us the TRUTH necessary to require a NEW INVESTIGATION to replace the FAULTY, DECEPTIVE NIST BUILDING PERFORMANCE REPORT.

Since it is LIKELY that INDIVIDUALS KNOWLINGLY provided FALSE INFORMATION; or FALSIFIED the information included in the report, they would be guilty of a FELONY CRIMINAL ACT; and should be agressively persued and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the LAW.

Our "issue" now doesn't have anything to do with that "C....Y" word. It doesn't matter if the buldings were destroyed by computer generated images, or 747 Aircraft, by Muslims or Israles or anyone else.... the issue is the FALSIFIED DOCUMENT we have been provided with, and the resultant Governmental Policy decisions which perpetuate the unlawful killing of innocent people, extending throughout the world; far beyond the original GROUND ZERO SITE in NYC.

All of us, PILOTS, ARCHETICTS, ENGINEERS, FIREMEN, etc etc. have the RESPONSIBILITY to put an END to this PERPUTAL, CONTINUALLY EXPANDING CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

I'm not an Archetict, or a FIREMAN. My area of EXPERTISE is AVIATION, so I came to this site... and we really have a lot of CRAP over here. Much of it is good information. But I fear some of the best information, especially on the "Utube" links I tried to access is FADING AWAY....

It is not unlikely for any perpetrator, credible terrorist, or others who are enemies of our FREEDOM to fly in our own FRIENDLY SKIES... may be working to sabatoge this effort...right here...

I'm here to help sort out good and bad Aviation related information within my ability and limitations to do so...

Ill focus some effort toward NTSB reports and documents, and look for "erronious" material in need of correction. I'm used to doing this kind of thing EVERY DAY.

As an Airplane Pilot and Mechanic, I must fill in required FORMS and DOCUMENTS as accurately as possible. If I cannot make any "changes" to information on an FAA REQUIRED form to obscure or falsify information already present, nor can I knowlingly probide FALSE information. It is a FEDERAL FELONY CRIME to do so.

And all FOUR of those AIRCRAFT allegedly involved in the EVENTS of 911 Generated extensive FAA REGUIRED paper trails of documents everywhere they went.... and if we're lucky. we might find some engine parts or landing gear parts or maybe a few electronic parts that are still flying.. or in scrap piles nowhere near NYC or CHINA.

I'm here, and I'm rollin up my sleeves, ready to go to work.

Island Pilot.



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rob balsamo
post Jun 24 2010, 05:23 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

Please read the white bold sentences at the top of every page of this forum.

I look forward to your contributions.

Perhaps introduce yourself in the Welcome forum?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showforum=21
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amazed!
post Jun 26 2010, 01:06 PM
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The practice of ethics in this country is at a very low ebb.
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