Nasa Flight Director Confirms 9/11 Aircraft Speed As The " Elephant In The Room ", PilotsFor911Truth.org Rating Options

[rob balsamo]

NASA Flight Director Confirms 9/11 Aircraft Speed As The "Elephant In The Room"


06/22/2010 - (PilotsFor911Truth.org) Recently Pilots For 9/11 Truth have analyzed the speeds reported for the aircraft utilized on 9/11. Numerous aviation experts have voiced their concerns regarding the extremely excessive speeds reported above Maximum Operating for the 757 and 767, particularly, United and American Airlines 757/767 Captains who have actual flight time in all 4 aircraft reportedly used on 9/11. These experts state the speeds are impossible to achieve near sea level in thick air if the aircraft were a standard 757/767 as reported. Combined with the fact the airplane which was reported to strike the south tower of the World Trade Center was also producing high G Loading while turning and pulling out from a dive, the whole issue becomes incomprehensible to fathom a standard 767 can perform such maneuvers at such intense speeds exceeding Maximum Operating limits of the aircraft. Especially for those who research the topic thoroughly and have expertise in aviation.

Co-Founder of Pilots For 9/11 Truth Rob Balsamo recently interviewed a former NASA Flight Director in charge of flight control systems at the NASA Dryden Flight Research facility who is also speaking out after viewing the latest presentation by Pilots For 9/11 Truth - "9/11: World Trade Center Attack".

Retired NASA Senior Executive Dwain Deets published his concerns on the matter at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) as follows:

A Responsibility to Explain an Aeronautical Improbability
Dwain Deets
NASA Dryden Flight Research Center (Senior Executive Service - retired)
AIAA Associate Fellow

The airplane was UA175, a Boeing 767-200, shortly before crashing into World Trade Center Tower 2. Based on analysis of radar data, the National Transportation and Safety Board reported the groundspeed just before impact as 510 knots. This is well beyond the maximum operating velocity of 360 knots, and maximum dive velocity of 410 knots. The possibilities as I see them are: (1) this wasn’t a standard 767-200; (2) the radar data was compromised in some manner; (3) the NTSB analysis was erroneous; or (4) the 767 flew well beyond its flight envelope, was controllable, and managed to hit a relatively small target. Which organization has the greater responsibility for acknowledging the elephant in the room? The NTSB, NASA, Boeing, or the AIAA? Have engineers authored papers, but the AIAA or NASA won’t publish them? Or, does the ethical responsibility lie not with organizations, but with individual aeronautical engineers? Have engineers just looked the other way?

The above entry remained at the moderated AIAA Aerospace America Forum for approximately two weeks before being removed without explanation. Click "Who is Ethically Responsible" submitted by Dwain Deets at the Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum for discussion on this entry at AIAA.

Dwain Deets credentials and experience are as follows:

Dwain Deets
MS Physics, MS Eng
Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
Served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden
Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award
Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988)
Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics
Associate Fellow - American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA)
Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000
Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems
- Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers
Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology
37 year NASA career

It is established based on corroborated expert statements, raw data, and precedent, that the extremely excessive speed reported for the 9/11 aircraft is truly the "Elephant In The Room" and needs to be thoroughly investigated.

For summary of speed analysis, please see article 9/11: Speeds Reported For World Trade Center Attack Aircraft Analyzed.

To view the scene from "9/11: World Trade Center Attack" analyzing the reported speeds in more detail, please click here.

For full detailed analysis covering the events which took place in New York City on September 11, 2001, interviews with experts, including analysis of "Hijacker" pilot skill, Black Box recovery and more... please view the latest presentation from Pilots For 9/11 Truth, "9/11: World Trade Center Attack".

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has also analyzed Flight Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack and the events in Shanksville, PA. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html for full member list.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/join to join.

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[John Bursill]

Hello Rob,

I agree with Deets's argument in it's essence, not that it is improbable the aircraft were 767-200 because of the aircraft speed. The aircraft did the speed and you have no proof they were not the aircraft we are told they were. We need the data which you do not have so Rob you do not know. If the speed stated officially is wrong I'm sure some one would of proved that by now by using the video footage?

What I think Deets is getting at, is that the said pilots at that speed could not hit the target with those planes, yes? That I agree it is improbable.

The simulator does the speed Rob and your video is full of hot air! Show us the data or don't make statements about what is or is not impossible. That is what my campaign has been about, it is about being reasonable.

Your pilots that say they know what the frame could do, how do they know that Rob? Stop and think a while. Yes they may have done 360 Knots maybe 370 Knots during an over speed but they are not allowed to fly anywhere near 500 Knots...so how Rob do they know? 767's are very powerful planes and many pilots I talk to every day say they think they could do that speed. THEY DO NOT KNOW, THEY THINK!

This is a huge time waster!

Regards John

PS - My last post have fun with your beat up...

This post has been edited by John Bursill: Jun 23 2010, 04:14 AM

[rob balsamo]

Hello Rob,

I agree with Deets's argument in it's essence, not that it is improbable the aircraft were 767-200 because of the aircraft speed.

That's not exactly what Deets said. He specifically states "An Aeronautical Improbability" based on speed and aircraft type reported. Not that it is "improbable the aircraft were a 767-200". Do you understand the difference?

With that said, it appears you don't agree with Deets. Thanks for clearing that up.

The aircraft did the speed and you have no proof they were not the aircraft we are told they were.

Logical fallacy. Attempting to prove a negative. That is the same thing as you saying, "You have no proof Santa Claus isn't the person I was told he was by my parents". Legge tried the same tactic in his now defunct "What Hit The Pentagon" opinion piece.

A proper way to structure the statement would be, "What proof do you have that the aircraft observed is a standard 767-200, or specifically, N334AA and N612UA?"

So John, where is your proof?

So far, we have "...established based on corroborated expert statements, raw data, and precedent, that the extremely excessive speed reported for the 9/11 aircraft is truly the "Elephant In The Room"..."

You disagree. That's OK John. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree with you. I'm sure many of the experts consulted and credited are as well.

John, it's better to work together, than to be attacking each other. Would you agree?

We need the data which you do not have so Rob you do not know. If the speed stated officially is wrong I'm sure some one would of proved that by now by using the video footage?

It is proven based on the best data set we have and were able to obtain, Egypt Air 990, which suffered structural failure at 420 KEAS.

What I think Deets is getting at, is that the said pilots at that speed could not hit the target with those planes, yes? That I agree it is improbable.

Dwain is getting at both issues. Improbable speed (Hence, "...this wasn't a standard 767-200;"), and Hijacker pilot skill, (Hence, "...the 767 flew well beyond its flight envelope, was controllable, and managed to hit a relatively small target."). Although the latter you will note the sarcasm in his tone.

The simulator does the speed Rob and your video is full of hot air!

John, are you able to make one post without attacking me personally?

John, each simulator has it's purpose. A Cockpit simulator is not designed to measure airframe stress. It is designed for training Cockpit Crew with respect to Cockpit procedures. This is discussed in our presentation. Cabin Simulators are designed to train Cabin Crew with respect to Cabin Procedure. Wind tunels are utilized to measure aircraft stress. Furthermore, the crash logic was clearly disabled on your alleged test, whether inadvertantly or intentional, as pointed out by Capt Ralph Kolstad who has thousands of hours in 757/767 Cockpit Simulators and the actual aircraft at American Airlines.

John, why didn't you get a plotted print out from your supposed sim test? All Level D Simulators have the capability to record and plot the flight. Just like a FDR, but even more thorough as it will give you an actual plot.

It would be nice to have some tangible evidence that your sim test actually took place. Regardless, we already know it isn't a very valid test.

Show us the data or don't make statements about what is or is not impossible. That is what my campaign has been about, it is about being reasonable.

We have shown you data and precedent. You choose to ignore it. Your campaign has been about attempting to police the "Truth Movement" and dictate to others what they should and should not research. This is all based on a conflict with me personally stemming from the fact I wouildn't boot John Lear from our organization when you made such demands.

John, why do you continue to ignore these questions?

How about Capt Rusty Aimer, Capt Ralph Kolstad, and Capt Jeff Latas? Do they "know what an airframe can do"?

John, why do you keep suggesting I'm the sole person responsible for this information while ignoring the experts who were consulted and credited? What you are doing is known as intellectual dishonesty and may give people the impression that your arguments are personal, and not in the best interests of truth.

Your pilots that say they know what the frame could do, how do they know that Rob?

If you view the presentation thoroughly, you will know.

Yes they may have done 360 Knots maybe 370 Knots during an over speed but they are not allowed to fly anywhere near 500 Knots...so how Rob do they know? 767's are very powerful planes and many pilots I talk to every day say they think they could do that speed. THEY DO NOT KNOW, THEY THINK!

Have they viewed our presentation?

John, I agree the 767 is a very powerful airplane. But do you understand why Boeing sets limitations, even on powerful aircraft?

Give them the presentation, then let me know what they "think". Let me know if they will put their name to their claims. Hearsay doesn't mean much on the web John.

Again John,

You think we should ignore the speeds. You think they are "probable". I'm ok with that. I'm ok to agree to disagree on this issue. Can you do the same? Or will you still go around claiming we are promoting disinfo? (Granted I haven't read or listened to much of your work, but I'm sure Craig can dig it out if needed).

Personally, I think It's better to work together, than to be attacking each other. Would you agree?

Have you seen this article?

Whistleblower Reveals "backdoor" 757 Remote Control And Flight Crew "lockout" Technology

That is right up your alley John. Why no comment?