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History and the "Elite", Sanders, elreb, Quest

Quest
post Aug 21 2010, 09:31 PM
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Now, I don't agree with everything Makow espouses but he is correct regarding this issue and how it is being used to destroy the family here in Western civilization. I am also willing to bet there are many gays that also do not like their sexuallty being used as a political football. What someone else does in their bedroom I could care less but this issue is entirely contrived for divide and conquer purposes.

http://www.henrymakow.com/hollywoods_freaky_families.html

Illuminati Persecute Heterosexuals
August 21, 2010

Turkey baster families? Three Hollywood movies tout artificial insemination.

by Henry Makow Ph.D.

Every day, heterosexuals face an insidious mass media campaign designed to make homosexuality the social norm.

This vicious underhanded attack on heterosexual identity is disguised as defending "homosexual rights."

To defend gay rights, heterosexuals are taught to deny gender, marriage and family. The fundamental human rights of 98% of the population -- the right to natural human development -- are violated.

I'd call that hate.

People get their identity, meaning and support from family. The Illuminati is re engineering humanity to serve them.

THE BIG PICTURE

Humanity is satanically possessed. This sounds incredible and bizarre but it is literally true.

Humanity is controlled by a satanic cult called the Illuminati. They grew out of the Sabbatean heresy, a satanic Jewish movement from the 17th and 18th century that engulfed half the Jews of Europe. This led directly to the growth of Communism, Socialism, and Zionism.

Jewish rabbis identified them as Satanist and said they would destroy Judaism.

Their blueprint for world satanic domination is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Homosexuality is just one of many "false doctrines" designed to weaken and enslave the goyim. "We must introduce into their education all those principles which have so brilliantly broken up their order." (Protocols 16)

Sigmund Freud was a Sabbatean Jew. The Sabbateans practiced every sexual deviance including wife swapping, incest and pedophilia as a means of flaunting God and the natural/spiritual order. This satanic practice has been introduced as "sexual liberation" "feminism" and "gay rights." .

Sabbatean Jews have incredible power by virtue of their control of government credit. They have created a puppet Gentile elite using Freemasonry (Cabalism for goyim.) Barack Obama is one of many such Masonic puppets. They control corporations (advertising), government, education and the mass media which is devoted to social engineering.

CABALISM- FORGING REALITY

The Illuminati substitute their self-serving reality for true reality. They make lies seem truth; evil seem good.

This is why the world is becoming a zanier and zanier place. History and current events are literally scripted. We are living in a matrix.

Remember that scene of people fleeing from the crashing towers on 9-11. Remind you of a Hollywood disaster movie? The same Illuminati mentality scripted and funded the "Al Queda" attack as the summer blockbuster in your local theater.

The world wars were similarly choreographed complete with costumes and songs. Better to kill the goyim. Expendable non-Sabbatean Jews had to die in order to disguise this plot.

To control the world, the Sabbateans must recreate it in their own image. That requires destruction of religion, race, nation, and of course family. They use homosexuality to destroy family.

Homosexuality is a developmental disorder caused by gender confusion. It is promoted as a normal lifestyle choice to undermine heterosexuals and ultimately enslave society.

Despite what the mass media says, the vast majority of homosexuals want sex not marriage or children. This is the Illuminati plan for heterosexuals.

As I have said, they are turning us into homosexuals. (How would gays feel if they were subjected to such a campaign in reverse?) My readers tell me that between 25 and 50% of the young females they meet are bisexual. Do you think this is conducive to successful heterosexual marriage and family?

HOLLYWOOD'S TURKEY BASTER FAMILIES

Here are some examples of the current media barrage intended to undermine and replace heterosexual norms:

Movie - "The Switch" with Jennifer Aniston. Aging feminist resorts to turkey baster to have child. Discovers male friend switched his sperm. Only way men can have children these days.

Aniston got headlines by saying "women don't need men to have a child." She is a role model for millions of young girls. "A List" actors and actresses are Illuminati mouthpieces.

Movie - "The Back up Plan" - Jennifer Lopez plays a woman who conceives twins through artificial insemination, only to meet the man of her dreams on the very same day.

Movie - "The Children are all Right" - The children of two lesbians find their common sperm donor father who is only too happy to enter the family dynamic.

All three movies mimic normal healthy heterosexual families in order to show that they aren't necessary.

News Item - Gay Actor Neil Patrick Harris and partner will have twin boys with "beautiful surrogate " in Oct.

News Item- Kathy Griffin tells Larry King: "Heterosexual marriage should be a criminal offense."

She says gay marriage is a "civil rights issue." What about the civil rights of 96% of the population who don't want their
institutions attacked and redefined out of existence?

News Item - ABC news is the most Illuminati Jewish network of the three. In the show "What Would You DO?" August 20 they showed two beautiful "lesbians" kissing on a park bench and filmed the reaction of passers-by. Although some criticism was noted, the message is that "love conquers all." I wonder what the reaction would have been if those girls looked like butches? In another episode, they showed people defending gays against "gay bashing." Heterosexuals, not gays are being oppressed.

News Item - "Gender Differences Due to Socialization not Genetics" The Guardian Aug. 15 In her new book "Delusions of Gender" feminist scientist Cordelia Fine says there are no neurological differences between the sexes."

More "News" Items -

Children Of Lesbians May Do Better Than Their Peers [Time]
Few Psychological Problems For Children Of Lesbian Mothers [Medpage Today]
Kids Of Lesbians Have Fewer Behavioral Problems, Study Suggests [CNN]

As with climate warming and homosexuality, the Illuminati manufacture their own science and then tout it in their wholly owned mass media.

CONCLUSION

The Illuminati attack on gender has resulted in untold suffering and degradation for millions of heterosexuals. Young men and women depend on marriage and family for purpose and satisfaction. Instead, many young women are turning to pornography, satanism and prostitution.

The Illuminati takeover is entering its final stages. War, financial upheaval,
migrations, natural disasters, plagues etc. are all part of the agenda. We can only keep our head by recognizing that it is all being engineered by the Illuminati and their lackeys, our so-called political and cultural leaders.

This post has been edited by Quest: Aug 21 2010, 09:37 PM
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Sanders
post Aug 22 2010, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE
Humanity is satanically possessed. This sounds incredible and bizarre but it is literally true.

Humanity is controlled by a satanic cult called the Illuminati. They grew out of the Sabbatean heresy, a satanic Jewish movement from the 17th and 18th century that engulfed half the Jews of Europe. This led directly to the growth of Communism, Socialism, and Zionism...


This might all sound a bit crazy to most people, but I have been researching this topic for a very long time and I'd have to say, with some reservations, that what Quest is describing is probably pretty close to the truth.

As for my reservations, if "Svali" is to be believed, theyTM are "Luciferian" more so than "Satanic", though it's a subtle difference and these terms refer to Venus and Saturn, not the "devil" per-se. Their Greek equivalents were Aphrodite and Chronus, and in the Levant pantheon Astarte and El. They were brother and sister (in a sense - Chronus was an actual son of Uranus while Aphrodite sprang from his genitals which had been tossed into the sea), and represented primary dualistic principles - heaven and earth, sky and fertility. I think the Venus/Saturn pair were so powerful in the Roman pagan belief system at the time that the early Catholics intentionally vilified them, which is why we link Lucifer (Venus) and Saturn with Satan, the devil.

The following terms are all intimately linked; Sabbatean, Sheba, Saba, Saba-zios, Cybele/Kybele, Kabbalah. The Sabbateans were Kabbalists.

Sabazios was Kybele merged with Zeus. "John" author of 'Ladon Gog' has a great chapter where he makes a good case that 'Saba' and 'Kybele' are essentially the same, and if you take the vowels out (ancient Hebrew didn't use vowels), Kybele and Kabbalah are essentially the same word - K-B-L. The cults of Sabazios, Kybele and Dionysis were all secretive and engaged in wild rituals, possibly involving human sacrifice and almost certainly, at least in the case of the cult of Kybele, an initiation ritual for priests which involved self-emasculation. We know this from the Romans. The cult of Kybele was very popular and spread to Rome where it was tolerated. The priests however were not Roman, they were traditionally easterners, probably of Anatolian ancestry, who were called "Galli". The reasons they mutilated themselves are two-fold.

The lover of Kybele was Attis, who she drove mad and who castrated himself. Attis died from his wound and was reborn as a pine tree. This is why we decorate pine trees at Christmas - the myth of Attis was the original (or close to it) resurrection myth. (You don't even want to know why we hang balls on our Christmas trees!) The deeper reason has to do with Kabbalah, in whose Tree of Life the 10 aspects of god are represented. Two of these aspects are the male and the female, and the union of male and female was an important theme in these Kabbalah inspired sects of Anatolia and Thrace during the Greek era. The Galli priests were, in effect, attempting to manifest in their own bodies the union of male and female.

This isn't just a Kabbalah (as it pertains to the Jewish Kabbalistic sect) thing either, the "Christian" aristocracy of medieval Europe was primarily a mix of Viking and Frank, and the Viking and Frank kings traced their own ancestry back to the kings of Troy. Troy was the main city of the Trojan kingdom where these perverse cults were active, in fact Troy was just a hop skip and a jump from Mt. Ida, the mythical home of the goddess Kybele (Attis' lover) - and what really just blows the mind is this - the letter "I" is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "J". Japheth (Hebrew patriarch) and Iapetus (Greek god of mankind) are essentially the same name. So allow for no vowels in ancient Hebrew and change the "I" in Ida to a Hebrew "J" and what do you get? ... J-D-A. Judah!!!

The Templars and the Cathar crusaders of France had more in common with Kabbalah than with Chrisitanity, just as the Sabbeans had more in common with Kabbalah than with Judeaism. That's why I shake my head when people go on about a "Jewish conspiracy". To the extent that elite Kabbalists have hidden behind and/or hijacked Judaism that might be true, but the same is true for the Kabbalist crusader knights, the Templars, the Normans who conquered England and all their ancestors who conquered America (Roosevelt, Cabot, Russell, Peabody, Brown, Astor, Lovett, Root, Low ... ), as well as the Germanic Holy Roman Emperors who were kin to the Rus rulers of Ukraine, the Magyar/Hun rulers of Hungary, and the Khazar and Hunnic khans kings and kagans whose blood flowed in them all.

What did all these people in the histories of our ruling elite have in common? They were all Kabbalist Hebrews - that doesn't mean they were Jewish, Judaism is a subset of the Hebrews, just as are the Trojans, the Spartans, the Franks, the Vikings, and maybe even the Huns and Khazars.

I also suspect that Sarah (Sarai) the wife of Abraham, who looks like a king of Ugarit and a Kabbalah magi priest, was the sister of the Pharaoh - part of the reason Egyptian mythology is so prevalent in the culture of the elite and Freemasonry. (As well as the reverse side of the US 1 dollar bill.)

Anyway, the trend in films to put male comedy stars in dresses and flood the media with homosexual themes, the anti-heterosexual bias Quest talks about, etc., is correctly traceable to the Troad cults of Kybele, Sabazios and Dionysis and, originally, to the erotic themes in Kabbalah in which both male and female aspects of god are represented, and the concept that the union of the dualistic male and female aspects is the source of creation. IMO. WHY they promote and parade this stuff I have no idea. I wish they'd just keep it to themselves and do what they do at Bohemian Grove. LoL.
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Quest
post Aug 22 2010, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE
This might all sound a bit crazy to most people, but I have been researching this topic for a very long time and I'd have to say, with some reservations, that what Quest is describing is probably pretty close to the truth.


Thanks, Sanders, and thanks for fleshing this out. handsdown.gif The more you follow this stuff, I believe one instinctivly picks up what going on, almost by osmosis. When you take into consideration Masonic ritual, Bohemiam Grove and the absolute sadistic, S&M-like treatment of the Palestinians, Iraqis and Afghanis, not to mention the nuking of Nagasaki, Heroshima and the 60 million genocided in the Bolshevik Genocide, one is left thinking that those running things operate on a very primitive plane and most societies have LONG surpassed them in emotional development. It is almost as if the world progressed and the powers that be stepped BACKWARD due to incest, nepotiosm, marrying sisters, brothers, cousins and only those with similar philosophies - all in order to keep power "in the family", so to speak. This tradition guarantees insanity.

QUOTE
The lover of Kybele was Attis, who she drove mad and who castrated himself. Attis died from his wound and was reborn as a pine tree. This is why we decorate pine trees at Christmas - the myth of Attis was the original (or close to it) resurrection myth. (You don't even want to know why we hang balls on our Christmas trees!)


I never knew that, but it makes sense! blink.gif

QUOTE
This isn't just a Kabbalah (as it pertains to the Jewish Kabbalistic sect) thing either, the "Christian" aristocracy of medieval Europe was primarily a mix of Viking and Frank, and the Viking and Frank kings traced their own ancestry back to the kings of Troy. Troy was the main city of the Trojan kingdom where these perverse cults were active, in fact Troy was just a hop skip and a jump from Mt. Ida, the mythical home of the goddess Kybele (Attis' lover) - and what really just blows the mind is this - the letter "I" is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "J". Japheth (Hebrew patriarch) and Iapetus (Greek god of mankind) are essentially the same name. So allow for no vowels in ancient Hebrew and change the "I" in Ida to a Hebrew "J" and what do you get? ... J-D-A. Judah!!!


Again, quite interesting.

QUOTE
The Templars and the Cathar crusaders of France had more in common with Kabbalah than with Chrisitanity, just as the Sabbeans had more in common with Kabbalah than with Judeaism. That's why I shake my head when people go on about a "Jewish conspiracy". To the extent that elite Kabbalists have hidden behind and/or hijacked Judaism that might be true, but the same is true for the Kabbalist crusader knights, the Templars, the Normans who conquered England and all their ancestors who conquered America (Roosevelt, Cabot, Russell, Peabody, Brown, Astor, Lovett, Root, Low ... ), as well as the Germanic Holy Roman Emperors who were kin to the Rus rulers of Ukraine, the Magyar/Hun rulers of Hungary, and the Khazar and Hunnic khans kings and kagans whose blood flowed in them all.

What did all these people in the histories of our ruling elite have in common? They were all Kabbalist Hebrews - that doesn't mean they were Jewish, Judaism is a subset of the Hebrews, just as are the Trojans, the Spartans, the Franks, the Vikings, and maybe even the Huns and Khazars.

I also suspect that Sarah (Sarai) the wife of Abraham, who looks like a king of Ugarit and a Kabbalah magi priest, was the sister of the Pharaoh - part of the reason Egyptian mythology is so prevalent in the culture of the elite and Freemasonry. (As well as the reverse side of the US 1 dollar bill.)


Wow.

QUOTE
Anyway, the trend in films to put male comedy stars in dresses and flood the media with homosexual themes, the anti-heterosexual bias Quest talks about, etc., is correctly traceable to the Troad cults of Kybele, Sabazios and Dionysis and, originally, to the erotic themes in Kabbalah in which both male and female aspects of god are represented, and the concept that the union of the dualistic male and female aspects is the source of creation. IMO. WHY they promote and parade this stuff I have no idea. I wish they'd just keep it to themselves and do what they do at Bohemian Grove. LoL.


This leads to an onvious question, who exactly is calling the shots regarding stuff like pushing the homosexual issue? Is it someone like, for lack of a better term, a sort of Kaballah "high preist"? This stuff would of course have to be coordinated with financial dealings\scams, false-flag terror attacks and actual wars. I can almost imagine a room (what country would this room be located?) where Evelyn Rothschild, The queen of Britain and some other of old Europen elite family representatives would meet to discuss current stautus and future strategy. Could you elucidate a bit more, Sanders?

QUOTE
The Templars and the Cathar crusaders of France had more in common with Kabbalah than with Chrisitanity, just as the Sabbeans had more in common with Kabbalah than with Judeaism. That's why I shake my head when people go on about a "Jewish conspiracy".


In fairness to the "Jewish conspiracy" claim, people are talking about what they have seen with their own eyes. They are talking about the Federal Reserve, the Lavon Affair, the USS Liberty Massacre, the King David Hotel bombing, the JFK assasination the Jewish (for the most part) Bolsheviks who oversaw the slaughters of 60 million (mostly Christian) Eastern Europens and Russians, as well as 911 itself. Whereas there may be and probably are people pulling strings from behind the scenes, the people who carried out these attocities are every bit guilty as the conspirators and should not be overlooked. Especially given they actually pulled the trigger on these events and used THEIR MEDIA to cover it up as well as engineer even more wars. And what gets thrown at honest investigators who are trying to look at every possible angle? They are called "anti-semites". Now, this may be part of the NWO plan, in fact I would say it is - to make every investigator looking into 911, Obama's legitamcy, pushing of homosexuality look racist, yes, it's all by design but, if certain folk don't want to be implicated they should stay clear of crminal acts and actrocities. Now, imagine the survivors of the USS Liberty or 911 1st responders questioning the role of Israel. Are they racist or "jewish conspiracy nuts" for not first considering a hidden hand? If I was on the USS Liberty I would address the obvious 1st and deal with the possibly unprovable (Freemasons, Kabballists, Knights Templar) later. But yes, I would also want to apprehend the "brains" as well.

This post has been edited by Quest: Aug 23 2010, 12:00 AM
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Sanders
post Aug 23 2010, 11:58 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Aug 26 2010, 09:55 PM) *
In fairness to the "Jewish conspiracy" claim, people are talking about what they have seen with their own eyes...


And I, in fairness to the "Jewish conspiracy" claim, will concede that Kabbalah lies at the roots of Judaism and that many Jews study Kabbalah. But what we see with our own eyes is what they allow us to see. What's going on behind the scenes, what is being manifested in the occupied territories in Israel, and the roots of the homo-erotic trend we see in the US media are the work of Kabbalists and the extent that they have hijacked traditional Judaism. Judaism was a revolt against the pagan sects of Canaan - traditionally it shuns dualism and blood sacrifice and magic, the cornerstones of Kabbalah. When people start saying it's all a "Kabbalist conspiracy" I'll jump right on board. But until people can get up to speed and differentiate between Judaism and Kabbalistic cults and their influence, I'll continue to cry foul.

In my above post, I listed a bunch of family names ... Roosevelt, Cabot, Russell, Peabody, Brown, Astor, Lovett, Root, Low. (George Peabody, by the way, was the founder of the Morgan banking empire.) All of these families got rich trading opium or slaves, which is curious because the British and Dutch East India companies, Freemason-led companies who dominated these markets, supposedly protected their monopolies with the force of cannon. Obviously, these families, particularly the Russell family who made a fortune in China and whose opium business was run by FDR's grandfather, were allowed to participate in the plundering of the east and the trading of slaves. A look into the histories of these families tells us why - they ALL have an ancestor who fought alongside William the Conqueror at the battle of Hastings and were granted lands in England for their service. All of them!

You have to then look at the crusader knights who led the first crusade - they were almost all Nomans or French Cathars. What did they have in common? Trojan roots, Kabbalistic dualistic beliefs, "dragon" roots. Who were the Templars? Some say they were Norman, some say they practiced Catharism, or something like it. How about both?

Templars, Rosicrucians, Cathars, Illuminati, Freemasons, all of them were influenced by Kabbalah and were knee-jerk reactions to the power of Catholic Rome. No one can see this, because the Crusades were initiated by the pope,the same pope (Innocent II) who created the Templar order. This paradox drove me nuts forever until I figured out that Innocent II was a mole, he was elevated to the papacy by Bernard Clairveaux, the patriarch of the Templars. Look at the name Clairveax .... "Clair" is the name of the decendant family of Rollo the Viking, i.e. St. Clair, Sinclair (!!!).

Anyway, the knights of the first crusade were about as Catholic as I am Jewish. They wanted to get at Solomon's temple to see what they could find there - Solomon was deep into Kabbalah and magic. That thing they call the Seal of Solomon? That's the symbol of dualism, of the inter-connectedness of male and female, order and chaos, good and evil. The integration of these dualistic concepts is the power of creation. That's what they believe. Order out of Chaos, i.e. 9/11, is creation. Attis whacking off his genitals is the merging of male and female, i.e. creation, hence the resurrection myth exemplified in the "evergreen" pine tree. Did I mention that 'Pinocchio' means "pine-nut", or that the Disney family is also Norman and has a descendant who fought on the battlefield of Hastings?

Do non-Kabblist Jews know what Kabbalah is all about? No, it's all secret. Same with the cults of Troad, from whose kings supposedly the rulers of the Franks and Vikings descend. It was all secret. We know that the cults of Troad had a pantheon of gods and goddesses, called the 'Kabeiroi', but we have no idea who these gods and goddesses were, because it was all secret, hence "mystery religion".

Anyway, the Vikings and the Franks seem to be Trojans, who seem to have been cousins of the Israelites. What links them is an Egyptian and Canaanite history and Kabbalah-rooted beliefs . Judaism is an offshoot of this culture, which rebelled against pagan beliefs but has, in recent times, been hijacked, IMO. The fact that the Seal of Solomon (Star of David/Magan David) is the current accepted symbol of Judaism is prima-facie evidence that I am right. That's a pagan symbol, the interlocked triangles are the purest symbol of dualism.
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elreb
post Aug 23 2010, 12:24 PM
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Sanders,

That was so good, I had to save and print your last two posts.

You are “Spot” on. Great conclusion...

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Sanders
post Aug 23 2010, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE
who exactly is calling the shots regarding stuff like pushing the homosexual issue? Is it someone like, for lack of a better term, a sort of Kaballah "high preist"?


Quest, I have no frikken idea. But I was listening to an interview with "Svali", who claimed to have escaped from what internet conspiracy theorists call the "Illuminati".

She calls it "the family", or "the Order". And in her only audio-taped interview a caller asks about the conquering wind of "Moriah". Svali replies, (I'm paraphrasing but this is surely almost exactly what she said....) "I don't know what you're referring to, but 'Moriah' is our name".

Moriah, for those who aren't aware, is the name of the hill in Jerusalem Solomon's Temple was supposedly built on.

I don't know if that is illuminating in any way, but I suspect there's a whole lot we don't know, and an under-culture we can't see who are pushing society in these directions. If Svali is for real, we should all stop referring to them as the "Illuninati" and use their own term - Moriah.
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Sanders
post Aug 23 2010, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Aug 27 2010, 12:24 PM) *
Sanders,

That was so good, I had to save and print your last two posts.

You are “Spot” on. Great conclusion...


I didn't think it was that good - but, coming from someone who is way over my head much of the time, I do appreciate it.
smile.gif
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elreb
post Aug 23 2010, 12:50 PM
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The real point is that you are starting to boil things down and condensing them into one path…

Trojans being Vikings is SUPER



The “J” and “I” thing is dead on too. Old Roman maps do not use “J”’s. Modern “J”’s are “I”’s with tails.

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Quest
post Aug 23 2010, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Aug 23 2010, 05:24 PM) *
Sanders,

That was so good, I had to save and print your last two posts.

You are “Spot” on. Great conclusion...



Yeah, this is a topic I like discussing as well. We see a lot of bit players, henchman and foot soldiers but we still don't know exactly who is behind the curtain pulling the strings.
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Sanders
post Aug 23 2010, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Aug 27 2010, 11:50 AM) *
The real point is that you are starting to boil things down and condensing them into one path…

Trojans being Vikings is SUPER



The “J” and “I” thing is dead on too. Old Roman maps do not use “J”’s. Modern “J”’s are “I”’s with tails.


Josephus in his writings relayed the contents of a letter from the king of Sparta to Onius, king of the Isralites where the Spartan king talks about their "common heritage". The letter is described as having a seal featuring a dragon and an eagle.

Some say Dardanus was Darda, son of Zerah son of Judah. Maybe Darda's brother Calcol named Colchis???

Zerah (the brother of Judah's other son Perez), and his descendants disappear from the bible after a brief mention. Why? Could it be that this was the Hebrew account of Danaus and Cadmus of Greek myth, that Zerah and his descendants left Egynt and crossed the Mediterranean, headed for Greece, never to be heard from (in the Hebrew accounts) again?
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Quest
post Aug 23 2010, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Aug 23 2010, 06:13 PM) *
Josephus in his writings relayed the contents of a letter from the king of Sparta to Onius, king of the Isralites where the Spartan king talks about their "common heritage". The letter is described as having a seal featuring a dragon and an eagle.

Some say Dardanus was Darda, son of Zerah son of Judah. Maybe Darda's brother Calcol named Colchis???

Zerah (the brother of Judah's other son Perez), and his descendants disappear from the bible after a brief mention. Why? Could it be that this was the Hebrew account of Danaus and Cadmus of Greek myth, that Zerah and his descendants left Egynt and crossed the Mediterranean, headed for Greece, never to be heard from (in the Hebrew accounts) again?


Sanders, have you considering drawing up an chronological, organizational chart, or "family tree" including coutries of origin so the we can see how the different sects spawned new ones through the ages? Does such a thing already exist? That would go a long way showing how we've come to come to present time.

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elreb
post Aug 23 2010, 03:55 PM
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I’m game if Sanders is but someone has to re-=title this thread and perhaps move it!

If this is your play ground…Rome should be near the core...As it will play out in the overall show...




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Quest
post Aug 23 2010, 04:47 PM
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Admins/mods, can someone please spilt this thread and move it to it's proper location?

Thanks!
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elreb
post Aug 23 2010, 06:04 PM
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Quest,

I would recommend printing the map and starting a new file.

This is going to go “Nuts”.

Ha ha ha Sanders
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KP50
post Aug 23 2010, 08:40 PM
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OK I think I managed to split it OK - picked an arbitrary title, elreb will be able to change it if desired.

KP - still a mod newbie but trying hard.
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Quest
post Aug 23 2010, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (KP50 @ Aug 24 2010, 02:40 AM) *
OK I think I managed to split it OK - picked an arbitrary title, elreb will be able to change it if desired.

KP - still a mod newbie but trying hard.



Thanks, KP! cheers.gif
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Sanders
post Aug 23 2010, 11:26 PM
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Thanks, KP! salute.gif
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Sanders
post Aug 24 2010, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Aug 27 2010, 02:12 PM) *
Sanders, have you considering drawing up an chronological, organizational chart, or "family tree" including coutries of origin so the we can see how the different sects spawned new ones through the ages? Does such a thing already exist? That would go a long way showing how we've come to come to present time.


Sure, I've thought about it, I've even made some futile attempts. But it's nearly impossible ...
elreb's map there should give you an idea of how complex it is. I just don't know enough.

All those names there, those are mostly tribes that fanned out from Troad after the fall of Troy. There's a post in my dragon thread about Lugii - there is a Lugii tribe in Scotland as well, Pollack family comes from the Lugii - the tribe is probably rooted in Lydia and connected to the people who founded Liguria in Italy. These were a "boar" peoples and you can follow them around by looking for boars on family crests. That's just one name. Daci, that's a dragon term - Thracians. The Suebi named Swabia. I know almost nothing about them. The Venedi named Veneto in northern Italy, and they pop up later in Brittany. Probably the same as the Heneti and rooted in Paphlagonia. How'd they wind up in Russia on that map, and what became of them? I don't know. Its super complicated, a giant puzzle all convoluted with myths and spotty accounts and giant holes. When you try to go back to biblical times it gets even worse.

However, by looking at little pieces of the puzzle, you start to get a sense of it in a general way. So it's not totally an exercise in futility, and it's pretty interesting and enjoyable when you make discoveries. But to try to do something comprehensive, that'd be tough.
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KP50
post Aug 24 2010, 03:55 AM
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It strikes me that the more you know on this topic (or rather the more than Sanders knows), the more he realises he doesn't know. Since the Dragon thread I've always meant to ask how cast-iron are the family links between the families at the Battle of Hastings and the major family names of recent history? Maybe I never read the thread in enough detail (I am a dipper) but could it be argued that it is just coincidence?
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Sanders
post Aug 24 2010, 04:57 AM
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QUOTE (KP50 @ Aug 28 2010, 02:55 AM) *
It strikes me that the more you know on this topic (or rather the more than Sanders knows), the more he realises he doesn't know. Since the Dragon thread I've always meant to ask how cast-iron are the family links between the families at the Battle of Hastings and the major family names of recent history? Maybe I never read the thread in enough detail (I am a dipper) but could it be argued that it is just coincidence?


I don't think it's coincidence. These Norman families all received lands in England and won a seat at the table. They've had money and power ever since, and it can't be just an accident that so many influential wealthy Americans are in this club. As for how iron-clad the family connections are, I'm just going by what is written about the histories of those families at houseofnames.com.

Again, lots of this is speculative - but it's the sheer number of links that paints a sort of general picture - IMO.
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