Civilization As We Know It Is Unsustainable., The wrecking of our life support system. Options

[Omega892R09]

Current species extinction rates are unprecedented in the fossil record.

Royal Society: “There are very strong indications that the current rate of species extinctions far exceeds anything in the fossil record.”

Please take time to absorb all that is written there including many excellent comment.

and that is not all.

Heard of the North Pacific gyre and the plastic garbage patch?:

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch - Good Morning America

Message to lunk:

Avoiding the answering of my questions by locking a thread is not fair play as in:

Stephen Schneider thread

Insrtead you repeat stuff I have debunked backed with evidence and you provide a singular lack of support for your erroneous ideas as with this:

i have a little problem with the past predictions of oceans rising.
(since the '60's!)
They haven't.

The reason that you see lower tides in your local is because the land is rising as the Pacific plate subducts beneath, as I have repeatedly told you. But that is another well researched and sound scientifically known fact that you refuse to acknowledge.

Try explaining how the structure that is the European Alps formed by an expanding earth. Ask yourself why the top of the Matterhorn is a huge chunk of gneiss, albeit somewhat ground down by glaciers and then the carbon cycle working with rain, winds and gravity to further errode, that could only have come from the African continent.

Here are some clues, not that I have not supplied many more over time:

Waves in the bathtub Why sea level rise isn’t level at all

Scientists withdraw low-ball estimate of sea level rise — media are confused and anti-science crowd pounces

and as for:

If water evaporates quicker under lower atmospheric pressure,
then a rise in ocean levels would accelerate evaporation,
reducing that rise.

Is atmospheric pressure overall falling? Who is telling you that?

You should study this:

The sky IS falling

On the other hand, what is causing a rise in atmospheric moisture levels is rising temperature. The energy stored is put into an accelerated hydrological cycle as people in Pakistan have discovered. Tropical storms over parts of the US have also intensified whilst other parts continue to desicate:

Masters: “Strongest storm ever recorded in the Midwest smashes all-time pressure records”

Study: Global warming is driving increased frequency of extreme wet or dry summer weather in southeast, so droughts and deluges are likely to get worse

Lunk, it would make a change if you tried to grasp these topics rather than evading and repeating unsupported nonsense dressed up as verse.

[Omega892R09]

OK Lunk, and others, lets have a look at some of the tactics that the unscrupulous use to baffle you with bullshit. Your responses are all too clearly based on ill-informed prejudice.

Case in point is straw men arguments and as an illustration we have the one that suggests that climate scientists claim that CO2 increase has always led temperature:

.
When you have watched that have a look at the originating site and note the latest item 450 more lies from the climate change Deniers.

[lunk]

OK Lunk, and others, lets have a look at some of the tactics that the unscrupulous use to baffle you with bullshit. Your responses are all too clearly based on ill-informed prejudice.

Case in point is straw men arguments and as an illustration we have the one that suggests that climate scientists claim that CO2 increase has always led temperature:

.
When you have watched that have a look at the originating site and note the latest item 450 more lies from the climate change Deniers.

Excellent photo, refractive indexes.
Fascinating stuff. Different transparent materials can slow the speed of light, differently.
Causing the light to "appear" to bend, when on an angle between transparent substances.

Even non-transparent materials, like gold, have a refractive index, that can be calculated by the amount they bend the light when they are dissolved in glass.
Red stain glass is caused by dissolved gold in the glass.

Pure water is invisible as steam, water and ice. Each has a different refractive index, meaning, to us, that the speed of light is different in each.
Obviously different gasses, such as methane, CO2 and Nitrogen will have different refractive indexes, and that refractive index will probably increase with pressure, even though those gasses should remain transparent.

Of course there is very little pressure in the upper atmosphere and the refractive indexes of all these gasses should be about the same closer to the vacuum, where the speed of light is the fastest.

Oblate-ness, does sound better than a squished ball.

(edit) added, oh, that was a video.

i really don't like the use of the word "denier." It's so "psycho-linguistic" and weighted with very negative connotations that have absolutely nothing to do with the weather. Even "straw man"
is becoming a loaded expression, to many, meaning much more than a flawed method of argument.

i do think we are seeing a climate change, and possibly the start of another ice age.
They can come on rather suddenly, They are still finding woolly mammoths frozen in ice and they appear to have been grazing on spring flowers, at the time.

It starts to snow,
and there's no place to go,
and the next thing we know,
is it's covered in glacier.

i sure hope it is 20,000 years in the future, not now.
As that would be an catastrophic miscalculation.

In 1974 there was a terrible flood in Queensland Australia.
Hydrological engineers figured out a plan of dams and dikes to mitigate it ever happening again.
But climate change experts dissuaded the locals from following through with that plan, and instead of dams to direct the water away, it was thought that the money would be better spent on desalinization plants.

Brisbane then re-flooded, with its' now mothballed desalinization plant.

The recent flooding of Brisbane was completely the fault of global warming enthusiast.


BTW, to get mile thick ice sheets, it first must precipitate a lot.

[Omega892R09]

Of course there is very little pressure in the upper atmosphere and the refractive indexes of all these gasses should be about the same closer to the vacuum, where the speed of light is the fastest.

Quite, quite wrong. The sun is already known to have dipped below the horizon before it disappears from sight. It also gets squashed inappearance as it approaches the horizon due to light from the lower part being refracted more through the thicker atmosphere nearer the ground. As the content of GHGs increases this
effect also increases. Its due to physics.

Here is an idea Lunk. There is a new The Feynman Lectures on Physics, boxed set: The New Millennium Edition recently published. Could be worth a look. I have a copy and I can see that it will fill in many of your gaps.

(edit) added, oh, that was a video.

My turn for LOL, in fact (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) !

i really don't like the use of the word "denier." It's so "psycho-linguistic" and weighted with very negative connotations that have absolutely nothing to do with the weather.

Ah! But! There you see you mention weather when here we are discussing climate change. The two, although conected are different.

You, by thinking up all manner of reasons for polar warming are trying to argue that climate change is nothing to do with the activities of humans if I am not mistaken. Thus you are denying that humans have input a big signature into global warming and resultant climatic changes. If you don't like it then study the non-pseudo-science.

Even "straw man" is becoming a loaded expression, to many, meaning much more than a flawed method of argument.

Well simple, do not use such arguments.

i do think we are seeing a climate change, and possibly the start of another ice age.

On what basis?

BTW, to get mile thick ice sheets, it first must precipitate a lot.

That depends much on where it snows alot.
More later.

[Tamborine man]

Quite, quite wrong. The sun is already known to have dipped below the horizon before it disappears from sight.

Omega, there exist few people like you, that to such extent spend his whole life quoting other sources,
thereby trying to appear knowledgeable, but are in fact, in this way, simply trying to hide the fact that he is
unable to think for himself. (It's a politicians way, and you do the same)!
What you quote above is silly and immature, which you would have found out if you had spend some small
time thinking about it!
I urge you to do this, and you'll hopefully see the stupidity of it all.

You, by thinking up all manner of reasons for polar warming are trying to argue that climate change is nothing to do with the activities of humans if I am not mistaken. Thus you are denying that humans have input a big signature into global warming and resultant climatic changes. If you don't like it then study the non-pseudo-science.

Humans have only an 'indirect' influence on the climate. (This for another time)!
All man made so-called co2 emissions, such that comes from power plants, coal fire stations, factories, exhausts,
fires etc. etc., has no influence on the climate. All these emissions simply revert back to their origin within a rather
short span of time.
The same apply to emissions from volcanic eruptions.

All these emissions are totally harmless, as they have lost their "vitality". They are no longer active or polarized.

Actually, 'active' co2 is very good for humankind.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Tamborine man: Feb 26 2011, 06:46 AM

[Omega892R09]

Omega, there exist few people like you, that to such extent spend his whole life quoting other sources,
thereby trying to appear knowledgeable, but are in fact, in this way, simply trying to hide the fact that he is
unable to think for himself. (It's a politicians way, and you do the same)!

Your education system has failed you. I would ask for a refund if I were you.

The trouble with people like you is that you know so little that you haven't a clue as to how little you know.

What you quote above is silly and immature,

Pot meet kettle!

Humans have only an 'indirect' influence on the climate.

Well yes but via the accumulations of GHGs through agricultural and industrial process and the resultant consumerism.

All man made so-called co2 emissions, such that comes from power plants, coal fire stations, factories, exhausts,
fires etc. etc., has no influence on the climate. All these emissions simply revert back to their origin within a rather
short span of time.

Read the chapters of David Archer's book 'Global Warming: Understanding the Forecast' available at:

Sample Chapters

All these emissions are totally harmless, as they have lost their "vitality". They are no longer active or polarized.

Vitality, active and polarized being used without a clue as to what they mean.

Are you familiar with the concept of molecules and how some are arranged such that they can respond to specific wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum?

Time for you to study some real science so until you have done that quit the ad hominum attacks!

This post has been edited by Omega892R09: Feb 26 2011, 10:56 AM