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Missing Black Boxes In World Trade Center Attacks Found By Firefighters, Analyzed By Ntsb, Concealed By Fbi

BlueSky
post Jan 3 2011, 01:09 AM
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Is there any additional information to back up this claim by this counterpunch article?


http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff12202005.html
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BlueSky
post Jan 3 2011, 01:22 AM
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410B.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/blackboxes.html

In December 2005, CounterPunch reported that an NTSB source contradicted the official account:
"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."
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Obwon
post Jan 3 2011, 10:40 AM
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QUOTE (BlueSky @ Jan 3 2011, 12:22 AM) *
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410B.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/blackboxes.html

In December 2005, CounterPunch reported that an NTSB source contradicted the official account:
"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."


It's hogwash, there are no black boxes because there were no planes. How do I know?
I read here, the many pilots who have instructed us on what it takes to accomplish these attacks.

The "Official" view is that the skyjackers simply took over the planes, without any outside help, and flew them, by-the-seat-of-their-pants to their targets. So first let's get rid of the "help" and/or "helping devices". There was no "help" unless you are willing to admit that the attacks were, in fact, somehow connected to forces inside the U.S.! So, anyone who postulates "guidance systems" etc., is really saying in effect, that they don't believe the Official Story itself. We don't know that yet, so let's just sit back and let the evidence we have, force that conclusion upon us, eh?

We have no evidence that the skyjackers had one very essential ingredient, necessary to accomplish these attacks, in the way they were supposed to have taken place, as evidenced by the video and various reports we have. And that ingredient, coming thru from the various flying professionals who have posted here, is: "flight time at the controls of heavy aircraft"!
Even with hundreds of hours at such controls, pilots with thousands of hours say, they could not be sure they could accomplish these flights. So, if that doesn't obviate skyjackers with not one hour, at the controls of heavy aircraft, then someone is selling snake oil.

Let's take the last few seconds from target. Steering is not like turning a car. Where the car only turns as the wheel is turned. Aircraft once turned, continue to turn, regardless of what happens to the wheel. There is "lag time" before the aircraft responds to control commands, which means you can't simply steer a craft by "judgment" when you have none, since that
"judgment" can only be acquired by at least hundreds of hours of flying time in heavy aircraft.
One or two hours at the controls is grossly insufficient time to gain the "judgment" that's needed. But this "judgment" is the most critical ingredient necessary in the whole story of 9-11. Without it it cannot be concluded that any skyjackers actually caused anything at all. So, we're forced to conclude they were in need of "help".

Since any "help" would have to come from our side of the ocean, who on this side of the ocean, who had the power to conceal the evidence, would risk creating even more of it that would have to be covered up? The answer, of course, is no one, not if it was humanly possible to avoid it.

...And that's where we came in to the movie! Rumsfeld may have said: "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". But the absence of evidence is, certainly, the evidence of the absence of evidence! Which in this case means they cannot produce evidence, which could not possibly have ever been created. All they can produce is more stories!

Obwon
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amazed!
post Jan 3 2011, 12:05 PM
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Another possible explanation for the lack of black boxes at WTC is that the aircraft involved was of a military pedigree, and thus not required to have black boxes.

My guess is that at least 1 of the airplanes at WTC was a KC767, 1 of 25 or so supplied to the USAF by Dov Zakheim's connections. If that were the case, there would be no FDR, at least as I understand it.
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Obwon
post Jan 3 2011, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Jan 3 2011, 11:05 AM) *
Another possible explanation for the lack of black boxes at WTC is that the aircraft involved was of a military pedigree, and thus not required to have black boxes.

My guess is that at least 1 of the airplanes at WTC was a KC767, 1 of 25 or so supplied to the USAF by Dov Zakheim's connections. If that were the case, there would be no FDR, at least as I understand it.


The official story does not allow us to theorize how any alternate planes may have been involved, and still keep the finger of guilt pointed at Islamic Fundamentalists. The official story, clearly states that Islamic Fundamentalists, driven by hatred of America's freedom, obtained commercial aircraft by skyjacking them, evicting the crew from the cockpits, then flying the planes and crashing them into buildings.

Look at the shape of the holes in the buildings, if that wasn't caused by pre-planted explosives, then it had to be caused by commercial airliners. Since there is no way to get commercial airliners, to strike the particular floors, where strange and mysteriously unexplained "renovations" had been made, there could not have been any planes. Skyjackers would have had to be incredibly lucky to even hit the buildings, let alone strike any particular floors.

Oh, wait, they can't even fly the planes, no less aim them at any target. It takes quite a few hours of flying, just to learn to come down on a runway. These guys had, essentially zero hours cockpit flight training at the controls of an airborne heavy. Thus they were such babes in arms, that even the planes automated systems couldn't help them with their tasks.

But hey, they don't need to crash some 200 million dollars in planes. I see some say that flight 175, which took off shortly after the mythical flight 11, had all of the passengers, that were supposed to be on both planes, and flew them to Ohio. At least there are records that some plane with flight 175's tail number and about 200 passengers, landed in Ohio. pilotfly.gif whistle.gif
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elreb
post Jan 3 2011, 07:46 PM
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It should be safe to say that the Architects and Engineers of 911 had little to Zero to do with Islamic fundamentalist wanting to deprive Americans of their freedom. The US government has single handedly done that for them!



The “Real” enemies of freedom…are the sorry “Bastards” that support the Official story.

This post has been edited by elreb: Jan 3 2011, 07:47 PM
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Obwon
post Jan 3 2011, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jan 3 2011, 06:46 PM) *
It should be safe to say that the Architects and Engineers of 911 had little to Zero to do with Islamic fundamentalist wanting to deprive Americans of their freedom. The US government has single handedly done that for them!



The “Real” enemies of freedom…are the sorry “Bastards” that support the Official story.


Well, we did see Bush disrespecting America time after time with smirk after smirk.
I kinda got the impression that he hated us for our Freedoms, at least he did say that
his job would be easier if he was the Dictator. cleanup.gif
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elreb
post Jan 3 2011, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE (Obwon @ Jan 3 2011, 02:09 PM) *
Well, we did see Bush disrespecting America time after time with smirk after smirk.
I kinda got the impression that he hated us for our Freedoms, at least he did say that his job would be easier if he was the Dictator.

Bush 41 was a real “Dictator” who could actually fly a plane, play baseball and probably kill a few people.

Bush 43 was a real “Dick” who couldn’t get his “Pee-Wee” out without his father help
.

"I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here."

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president.”

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
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BlueSky
post Jan 4 2011, 01:21 AM
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From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_175

Other than images and video.

There is audio on videos of the sound of a big plane flying into the building.

There are plenty of witnesses who saw and heard what happened.

Only government agents would want to discredit civilian witnesses and rescue workers.

To say that the rescue workers who 'helped recover' the back boxes are liars is just... mad, i believe the rescue workers over any government agent claim.

They were once seen as international heroes, now they are fighting slander from their own government who doesnt even want to give them the health care they need, compensation.


Dont be simple, the 'no plane' theory maybe correct at the pentagon, but its not correct at the wtc,

It would be much easier to just fly a plane into those buildings in full public view than bother with holograms and editing of live video, cheaper too. not that people with black budgets care about money.
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Obwon
post Jan 4 2011, 09:23 AM
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QUOTE (BlueSky @ Jan 4 2011, 12:21 AM) *



From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_175

Other than images and video.

There is audio on videos of the sound of a big plane flying into the building.

There are plenty of witnesses who saw and heard what happened.

Only government agents would want to discredit civilian witnesses and rescue workers.

To say that the rescue workers who 'helped recover' the back boxes are liars is just... mad, i believe the rescue workers over any government agent claim.

They were once seen as international heroes, now they are fighting slander from their own government who doesnt even want to give them the health care they need, compensation.


Dont be simple, the 'no plane' theory maybe correct at the pentagon, but its not correct at the wtc,

It would be much easier to just fly a plane into those buildings in full public view than bother with holograms and editing of live video, cheaper too. not that people with black budgets care about money.


Ummm... No, the witnesses didn't see any planes hit the WTC. And no, it isn't any easier to fly planes into buildings, using pilots who have no skills. and at speeds in excess of design capacity to boot. Nope, there's no reason to believe that anyone saw the impossible that day, no matter how much "evidence" is created to make it appear to be so.

I note you add "audio" as if, audio on tape, is somehow incontrovertible? That's call "reaching" something that's done by people whose materiel falls short of achieving the required objectives.

Okay, what I'm referring to is much more elemental and less subjective than witnesses, who cannot be sure of what they saw and/or are capable of manufacturing and/or deluding themselves etc. Why not first examine the evidence trail to see if what was claimed to have been seen, was even possible?

We are told that these were scheduled commercial airliners, so unless someone can show us that airline companies and/or gov't agencies routinely prepare passenger planes with exotic equipment/structural supports, then we have to believe that the skyjackers, had to fly these planes into the buildings, using just the skills they had alone.

So here you go. While you're trying to repair the official story, you haven't noticed how many holes it has in it. There are only 9 skyjackers who haven't been identified as not on the planes. Yet, eyewitnesses place six skyjackers on flight 11 and 5 on flight 175. So then, as far as we know, the pilots of those other two jets, the pentagon and shanksville, hijacked themselves? Ludicrous no? But hey, that's the way the "evidence" lines up, if you include the impossible as plausible.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains must be true!

It was impossible for those jets to be flown by the skyjackers. It was impossible for
those jets to be flown at the speeds they achieved. It is impossible to control jet airliners at those speeds, if they can even be reached at those altitudes. Real planes should have broken apart about a minute or so before impact. Real aircraft would have appeared on air traffic controllers screens at no less than three airports, interfering with their control of their airspace. That means they would have had to scramble to get other flights in the area out of the way. We hear no such stories in almost 10 years, stories that are at least as interesting as how somebody combed their hair on 9-11. Meaning that no air controller, except those in on it or told what to say, actually detected anything. There was nothing for Norad to detect, which is why nothing was dispatched to intercept, at least nothing more than likely stories are deployed. Or, does anyone here want to try to convince us that Norad people are incapable of doing simple math? Okay then, so I can safely state that NO interceptors were launched! I have to believe that, given the level of commitment of the Norad people, if they saw something they'd do something. So, the only explanation for them doing nothing is, there was nothing to chase, no wayward planes in the air. Everything else is just the result of made up stories etc..
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