9/11gate, "AA77" FDR numerology Options

[tumetuestumefais...]

I was looking into the "AA77" FDR record to find out how the Lat/Lon coordinates were shifted by Mr. Stutt and Legge to get the plane on the runway. So I've chosen the map closest to 2001 and I've plotted the last "AA77" landing, taxiing in, standing at the gate, taxiing out and the last takeoff:
(IMG:http://xmarinx.sweb.cz/situation1.png)

(The numbers are numbers of subframes in the FDR and they can also serve as a timing, because their step is one second. So for example when you've frame number 145840 and frame number 145860 it means they're 20 seconds from each other. Only point when it is interrupted is when the plane stands, then the FDR is not recording - in our case at the subframe count 146180. The needed data were provided to me by Mr. Warren Stutt)

Everybody sees at the situation picture that the coordinates taken from the FDR are off.
How much off they are?
I was looking what a reference I can find for landing and I've found the point where the plane sharply turned from the runway to the taxi circuit.

From the logic of the landing, the overal visible shift and the trajectory pattern is absolutely clear where it was:
(IMG:http://xmarinx.sweb.cz/turn.png)

Then I've got a strange idea and I've decided to measure the distance and angle to the position where the plane quite clearly parked to and departed from the gate:
(IMG:http://xmarinx.sweb.cz/1666.66.png)

From the distance number is clear that we keep up with the perps at least numerologically... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Let's have a break and have a look what number had the gate where the "AA77" was boarded and departed. We easily find it in the Wikipedia:

"The flight boarded through Gate D26, in Midfueld Concourse D at Dulles."

or here:

"In 2001, American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757, left gate D26 at Dulles en route to Los Angeles International Airport, but it was hijacked and deliberately crashed into the Pentagon as part of the September 11 attacks."

Let's yet have look into govt. documents...yep, it is there (page 29):

"Flight 77 pushed back from Dulles Gate D-26 at 8:09 A.M."

Boring. Let's go back to our little petty plots.

Now we need to measure the same distance and the same angle from the point where the plane sharply turned to the taxi circuit:
(IMG:http://xmarinx.sweb.cz/turn-gate.png)

And where the line ends?
Here:
(IMG:http://xmarinx.sweb.cz/gate-gate.png)

Lets look what number the gate has:
(IMG:http://xmarinx.sweb.cz/IAD-ConcourseD.png)
SOURCE

It's not completely clear what a number the gate has - we have there two gates:
9 and 11.

[rob balsamo]

Yes, i'm not surprised "Stutt's" coordinates push from the south side after adjusted for the offset. Read more of Legge/Stutt errors here.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10795490

But even then, you still have the aircraft in the grass on Taxi and thrashing the south wall of Concourse Delta.

Also, (and repeated for perhaps the 5th time), aircraft do not start their engines until after pushback.

How can Warren Stutt claim to have a position at the gate, and lat/long plots during pushback, if the FDR doesnt start to record until engines are started?

Answer, he doesnt.


For the third time, see here.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...;#entry10795540

It seems only those with a verified aviation background understand this.

And for perhaps the 4th time, the aircraft should have never left the ground with an IRS more than 1/2 mile in error.

[tumetuestumefais...]

For the third time, see here.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...;#entry10795540

It seems only those with a verified aviation background understand this.

And for perhaps the 4th time, the aircraft should have never left the ground with an IRS more than 1/2 mile in error.

But I'm having not the verified aviation background and it seems to me I understand that.
As I wrote, I don't insist on the idea of the INS adjustment and I'm not insisting even on the south side pushback. What I insist on (- and that's why I mainly posted the picture to show how closely the pattern fits the needed taxiways pattern confirming relative exactitude of the positioning - contrary to the Farmer's brand new "idea" about the sheer "inexactitude" of the IRS when the plane is on ground) is that the answer to the question:
D26? is: No way.
(I measured the maximum E/W displacement of my pathway plot - derived from the UnderTow's coordinates - from the taxiways margins and I found <<30m, the E/W distance between the place of pushback and the Gate D26 is 110+ meters)

[rob balsamo]

(I measured the maximum E/W displacement of my pathway plot - derived from the UnderTow's coordinates - from the taxiways margins and I found <<30m, the E/W distance between the place of pushback and the Gate D26 is 110+ meters)

Actually, the displacement is more than 3000 feet, which is why the aircraft should have never left the ground. (that is if the data actually came from an aircraft).

And again, it is impossible to have a position recorded for the "place of pushback" when the engines arent started till after pushback.

[tumetuestumefais...]

Actually, the displacement is more than 3000 feet, which is why the aircraft should have never left the ground. (that is if the data actually came from an aircraft).

To refine, I was of course meaning the relative displacement error when the pathway is superimposed on the logical position -if we want even think the plane ever departed IAD.
The whole thing was meant to counter this Mr. Farmer's (anti)idea:
"A closer look at the terminal location does indicate a change from the end of flight 11 to the south side of the terminal, but again the data reflects a significant degree of uncertainty while taxiing to runway 30. So to reach ANY positional conclusions base on this data would be foolish."
...
"In conclusion, a reasoned study of the Warren RO does not indicate which gate the plane departed from. It is much too dynamic a system and designed for in-flight use, not taxiing on a runway. If anything, it serves to once again validate that the plane which took off from Dulles was indeed AAL77 and that it did terminate its flight at the Pentagon. "
Link

And again, it is impossible to have a position recorded for the "place of pushback" when the engines arent started till after pushback.

Yeah this is weird, I have no idea why the "tail" is in the data. But somehow Mr. Farmer forgot it:
(IMG:http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/John_Farmer/bof12_adj_close.jpg)
taken from the link above, credits: John Farmer (how he did fit it on the runway below the bottom of the picture which is missing is a mystery for me - maybe Mr. Stutt helped him to adjust the coordinates again...)

Here's interesting wittness account about the engines start:
http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/9n4uho52z...e5050ec/000.jpg

[rob balsamo]

To refine, I was of course meaning the relative displacement error when the pathway is superimposed on the logical position -if we want even think the plane ever departed IAD.

Yes, i know what you meant, but your positioning is far from logical my friend.

Here's interesting wittness account about the engines start:
http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/9n4uho52z...e5050ec/000.jpg

Which corroborates what i've been saying.

Normally pilots wait for the all clear to start. This pilot started his engines after pushback, but before the tug was disconnected and clear.

In other words, the engines were NOT started before the push at the gate. The first position recorded was after pushback.

Also keep in mind, according to Farmer and his "audio", (along with your other sources such as Wiki)..."Flight 77" departed Gate D26.

The data in this thread did NOT depart Gate D26. So the above witness statements are basically moot.