Aircraft Departure Gate Positional Data Conflicts With Government Story, PilotsFor911truth.org Rating Options

[aerohead]

fwiw,
The planes i work on "block acars" when the IRS' sense a movement, normally
5-10 feet from brakes off. Could that be what the yellow marker is ? Block out ?

[dMz]

Well well, look who it is!

Good to see ya stranger!

Where the hell ya been?

Out in the desert on a horse with no name... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[rob balsamo]

fwiw,
The planes i work on "block acars" when the IRS' sense a movement, normally
5-10 feet from brakes off. Could that be what the yellow marker is ? Block out ?

Sounds like it matches pretty well. Again, Undertow made the color codes. But yeah, that positions seems like it would be the "block out" position if the type aircraft was the same you work on... again, we dont even know exactly what type aircraft this data came from or if it came from an aircraft at all. There is no evidence linking the data to any specific tail number. But the most important thing is that it doesnt support the govt story when it should.

Our aircraft "block out" via ACARS as soon as we drop the brake with all doors shut, engines dont even have to be running. Its also an easy way to cheat for on time performance.. :-)

[rob balsamo]

Out in the desert on a horse with no name... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I hope she was worth it... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Obwon]

Good Work Rob!
Hard to believe there was once a time, when I dismissed claims that official 9-11 was anything but the truth, as close as one has a right to expect. Sure, I expected some anomalies, what story doesn't have them? I considered them ignorable, since, quite obviously the planes had been seen by, perhaps hundreds, and video taped too boot. Then there were these believably suicidal Islamic Fundamentalist, and who isn't familiar with news reports of mid-eastern suicide bombers? So it was a very good fit. It seemed that what mattered most, is how exactly to punish the perps, without subjecting the world to wave after wave of religious and racist antagonism etc.

Then I began to see postings that cited "facts". While opinions can be contrived, facts can only be obscured. Upon checking out some of these facts I saw posted, I saw that there was no controversy over them, both sides were citing these same facts, though, interpreting them in different ways. Of course, then the science behind how these facts come into being, calls into question how one side or the other, is, or is not, using them properly.

Today these anomalies loom large in discrediting the Official story. But there's still a long way to go, towards understanding what really happened that day. Thus it is wise to keep in mind, every possible theory that cannot be easily discarded. Because, even if those theories may be largely wrong, they may have elements of truth within them. Elements that are needed to construct a theory that better fits the truth. Keep in mind that only "insider" perps, would want to create something so unbelievable that every theory will stumble or fall upon it. While foreign perps would not care, or quite the opposite, want to be convicted of the operation, both in fact and public opinion.

That said, I remember dismissing "flight of the bumble planes" as sheer insanity. But, in light of this new work Rob has revealed, I'll have to revisit that theory because, it seems there's been quite a bit of confusion created by changing tail numbers, flight switching, gate switching etc., so that some elements of FOTBP might just shed some light on what was intended by all this munging. Much like operation Northwoods, illuminates what high level thinking is capable of.

In this vein dMoles link: http://airgames.bravehost.com/tailnumbers.html
bears some following. Like another poster here, I think we need to examine some of those other flights and gates. What planes were there, what planes were supposed to be there and what ones weren't. If only to eliminate the possibility of finding even more bizarre twists.
Right now, we have planes, supposedly sitting on the ground, with hours missing from their data. [from dMoles link]

"Flight 78 shows scheduled to arrive at 6:22, but shows no arrival, or wheel on time.

3 planes were sheduled to arrive before the 911 events, but the database shows no info of any planes arriving on the morning of the 11th from NWR"

"Flight 77 N624aa or N644aa?

N624aa was used for flt 77 most of end of Aug and start of Sept
N624aa was in Logan Sept 10th (Flight 181, 11:00)

Airliners.net has a photo at logan of N644AA but its not listed at all
on BTS either August or September at logan or Dulles.
Does not appear at Reagan Sept 2001

612UA departs from SFO to BOS Logan 13:44 W-off-time, gets to Logan at 21:50 W-on-Time. Does not show departing on the 10th . shecduled elapsed time 333 mins /60=5.55hrs 2 hours missing ?"

On and on it goes! So, I'll keep reading and leave it to the experts who are more intimately acquainted with the meanings of such things, to explain them. But the more you read the further away from the "truth" the official story tells, things get.

[rob balsamo]

As i have expressed elsewhere on this forum, it appears the "pilots" didnt even care about their IRS alignment which seemed odd to me for an alleged revenue producing aircraft in passenger service.

It is claimed "additional" data was decoded from the raw file. They contain several flights prior to the "Sept 11" flight. None of them have been verified and i personally do not trust the people which claim to have performed the decode. However with that said, from what i understand, they claim all the flights are not IRS aligned.

I gave Capt Kolstad another call regarding this issue. Procedures at American Airlines dictate IRS alignment on first flight of the day and every "Turn Check" (in between flights at the gate). If the IRS was not aligned (or could not be aligned), this is a "no-go" item at American Airlines. Meaning, the airplane should have been grounded until the IRS was fixed.


Ralph is in the process of trying to dig out his old checklists.

I have a few other calls out to my other American Airlines connections as well, so hopefully we can get documentation for this.

If anyone reading this works at American, please feel free to post the checklists or send them to me at pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org. I will keep you anonymous if you so choose. Checklists should have a revision date as close as possible to Sept 11, 2001 as procedures could have changed.

If the data decoded for the past flights is genuine (meaning it was generated by an aircraft)..... this is further evidence that this data did not come from an aircraft operated by American Airlines generating revenue through passenger service. This also explains why the Flight Deck Door data shows that the door was never open for a hijack to occur, and perhaps why it was closed on all past flights.

[amazed!]

Yeah dMole, long time no see! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)

[Paul]

As i have expressed elsewhere on this forum, it appears the "pilots" didnt even care about their IRS alignment which seemed odd to me for an alleged revenue producing aircraft in passenger service.

It is claimed "additional" data was decoded from the raw file. They contain several flights prior to the "Sept 11" flight. None of them have been verified and i personally do not trust the people which claim to have performed the decode. However with that said, from what i understand, they claim all the flights are not IRS aligned.

I gave Capt Kolstad another call regarding this issue. Procedures at American Airlines dictate IRS alignment on first flight of the day and every "Turn Check" (in between flights at the gate). If the IRS was not aligned (or could not be aligned), this is a "no-go" item at American Airlines. Meaning, the airplane should have been grounded until the IRS was fixed.


Ralph is in the process of trying to dig out his old checklists.

I have a few other calls out to my other American Airlines connections as well, so hopefully we can get documentation for this.

If anyone reading this works at American, please feel free to post the checklists or send them to me at pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org. I will keep you anonymous if you so choose. Checklists should have a revision date as close as possible to Sept 11, 2001 as procedures could have changed.

If the data decoded for the past flights is genuine (meaning it was generated by an aircraft)..... this is further evidence that this data did not come from an aircraft operated by American Airlines generating revenue through passenger service. This also explains why the Flight Deck Door data shows that the door was never open for a hijack to occur, and perhaps why it was closed on all past flights.

Good luck getting the documentation Rob i hope you get it and hope your right, if so the OCT goes right down the sink hole
i just want to listen to idiots over at Randi cry for once not to mention all of the other duh bunkers scream noooooooooooooo
those pathetic brainless dickless morons i want to hear their cries of pain as they finally realise their worst nightmare has come
to true and then we will really see who the brainwashed delusional nutcases really are once and for all, and we can just point
and laugh at the idiots.

the govt loyalist site = (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blahblah1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blahblah1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/doh1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/doh1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/yes1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/yes1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

This post has been edited by Paul: Mar 1 2011, 06:15 PM

[rob balsamo]

Good luck getting the documentation Rob i hope you get it and hope your right,

Well, if someone claims to be a pilot and also claims that pilots do not align their IRS prior to each flight, i guarantee you that they will never put their name on such a claim as such a claim is absurd.

What is the purpose for having an IRS if it is never aligned for accurate calculations from Present Position (PPOS)?

This is why the aircraft is grounded if the IRS is not able to be aligned prior to flight after inputting PPOS.

Here is a quote i found with a quick search... (and further supports what I've been told by Capt Kolstad, see more here....)

Failure to insert ppos when align selected and more than 10 mins elapsed [Ed note: while aircraft is stationary], will cause an error code in the IRS CDU (6 I think when STS is selected, but I may be wrong), a prompt on the FMC CDU scratchpad and the align lights on the IRS CDU will flash. This is because the ppos is req'd for full align, at this point the IRS will NOT further reduce errors in accelerometer alignment.

....

Most operators I have worked with load gate ppos from the jepps, although some which only operate to a few airports have them loaded into the FMS database. Most use gate ppos to reduce map shift on T/O (unsquat) which on most a/c I have worked with is when update takes place [Ed note: in other words, if the IRS were aligned you would see it correspond with the taxiways and runway during taxi, it may drift a few feet during and because of taxi and then correct at the moment of lift-off and once again correspond with the runway...ie there shouldnt be any drift due to rotation at the moment of lift-off]. Failure to do this on airbus a/c may give rise to a IRS/FMS position error on the PFR. Of course the quick way to put in ppos is to use the last pos from the FMC

In other words, alignment takes place at the gate on almost all airlines which operate with an IRS prior to each flight (as I said in the beginning). If the PPOS Lat/Long is not input into the IRS, the pilots will get an error code and they should not fly that aircraft until aligned with PPOS, or if they did input the PPOS and the IRS did not align, they will get an error code and the aircraft should be grounded until fixed.

In further words, if the above aircraft was in fact N644AA, it should have never left the ground on 9/11 with an IRS so far out of alignment prior to take off. If the IRS was out of alignment on past flights, it should have been grounded then, until aligned.

[Paul]

Well, if someone claims to be a pilot and also claims that pilots do not align their IRS prior to each flight, i guarantee you that they will never put their name on such a claim as such a claim is absurd.

So i guess this mean that the morons over at the govt loyalist site FAIL again, they will never give it up they must be in love with you
Rob lol just like everyone else who hates you isnt it nice to be so popular? We'll enough about them now that they have
been smashed into tiny stones and ground to dust keep up the good work because i have feeling that in the 10th year
the tenth anniversary is going to be the year the whole thing gets busted wide open and exposed lets just hope me little
prediction is right i have a feeling about this.

Cheers mate

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[rob balsamo]

So i guess this mean that the morons over at the govt loyalist site FAIL again,

Wouldnt know, havent read it since yesterday, and i already took my shower today. Maybe i'll stop by there tomorrow before my shower as i always feel like i crawled out of a dumpster after leaving there. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'm sure they are trying to spin as much as possible though, if not using solely ad homs, personal attacks and libel. They dont have much to work with there except a rumored stroke victim (Beachy) and a known belligerent drunk (Reheat). Neither of which are willing to put their name behind their absurd claims.

[Paul]

Well, if someone claims to be a pilot and also claims that pilots do not align their IRS prior to each flight, i guarantee you that they will never put their name on such a claim as such a claim is absurd.

mod edit: reduced large quote

OMG lol there over at the idiots site BCR is thanking Beachnut for clarification, if he needs clarification off Beachnut
i dont think any of them are real pilots at all or have any expertise or experience in the field with anything to do with
the aeronautics or aviation industry at all, this just proves that none of them know anything at all if they have to get clarification of doofus over at the govt loyalist site who thinks that an Airbus A380 is 757 omg lol i am killing myself right now, listen to anything beachnut has to say and you will make an ass of yourself and at the same time be wearing it as a hat. Who would go to Keith Bachnut for clarification on anything let alone anything to do with this subject when he cant even positively identify an airbus A380 using microsoft crap simulator lol.

What qualifications to BCR or Beachnut have in the field of aviation or flying aircraft any at all lol?
Or is their only qualification or knowlegde in that field just plain simple and pure FAIL?

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

This post has been edited by rob balsamo: Mar 1 2011, 07:35 PM

[rob balsamo]

OMG lol there over at the idiots site BCR is thanking Beachnut for clarification,

Well, if one has to get :clarification" from someone who cant tell the difference between an Airbus and a 757, it's clear he has burned all his other bridges with real and verified experts.

Anyway, please lets get back on topic. Already wasted enough bandwidth on them.

I also reduced your large quote. Try to remove large quotes when the quoted text is right above your reply. Thanks Paul.

[Obwon]

I'll stand with Rob on this item. I don't see that there is much choice!

The point that comes through though, is this: Why all the switcheroos?

Okay, the answer in Northwoods was obviously: Because the passengers were not to be harmed.

Now, in this case 9-11. it's either the passengers were to be harmed, in which case none of the switching should have been needed.

Or, the passengers weren't to be taken to target, for whatever reason. In which case, that would mandate the need to switch craft.

There's also the possibility that, perhaps specially prepared aircraft were to be used, in which case they'd need to switch air craft too.

One thing is very clear, they didn't bring all of this controversial aircraft confusion in to the matter for no reason. Obviously, in a straight forward plan, this would be an unneeded complication, absorbing much effort, planning and time.

Obwon

[rob balsamo]

I'll stand with Rob on this item. I don't see that there is much choice!

I just did more clarification with Ralph. He said that if he were flying a flight which he aligned the IRS at the gate (which when aligned shows PPOS) and then perhaps drifted as much as shown by the data during taxi from the gate to the runway, he would have had to return to the gate.


IRS is/was THE primary navigational aid used on their aircraft, fully IFR certified. He said that if they lost IRS enroute and had to resort to VOR/DME, they would have had to declare an emergency based on their Operations Specifications under FAR Part 121 (regulation as defined by FAA).

IRS when aligned shows your PPOS. According to the data, the IRS was never aligned.

Based on the data, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY this data was generated by an aircraft in revenue passenger service for American Airlines, doesnt support the govt story of departing gate D26, and of course doesnt support an impact with the Pentagon.

So, where did the data come from? Well it came from the NTSB. This is why we need a new and independent investigation with subpoena power.

[Obwon]

So, where did the data come from? Well it came from the NTSB. This is why we need a new and independent investigation with subpoena power.

Yes, these are supposedly regularly scheduled flights engaged in normal/routine operations, at a time when they should be functioning normally with nothing to impair their routines.

worse yet, is the fact that, if these flights were functioning as they normally do, going through their usual, not-top-secret-routines, at least up to, and even a bit beyond these points, there is not a single reason why the data should not confirm that, nor is their any reason for it to be withheld, being as sundry as it should be.

I now have to wonder how the missing data, might line up with the groundwork alignments?
Assuming they keep track of which planes are receiving which kinds of service at what time and where? I'd expect there would be a load of records keeping, regarding baggage and parcel loading, fuel, service adjustments, food? When the engines are off, do planes use ground power supplies? If so, I'd guess that should generate records as well. Even employee gate assignments should be available? But the point is, until they could get control of all of those people, who could say that that plane was not there or that gate was not being used, they'd have serious reason not to let anyone have a sniff of the trail.

Obwon

[onesliceshort]

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10795222

Apparently airport workers confirm that gate D26 was used for embarking.
The problem is, given the lat/long data in this thread, that the FDR data allegedly from "Flight 77" is irreconcilable with anything from start to finish. Even the alleged boarding gate.

I asked myself the same question about the power used at the gate and found that while boarding an Auxiliary Power Unit is used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_power_unit

APUs are also used to run accessories while the engines are shut down. This allows the cabin to be comfortable while the passengers are boarding before the aircraft's engines are started. Electrical power is used to run systems for preflight checks. Some APUs are also connected to a hydraulic pump, allowing crews to operate hydraulic equipment (such as flight controls or flaps) prior to engine start. This function can also be used, on some aircraft, as a backup in flight in case of engine or hydraulic failure.

(Please remove the last point if I'm wrong guys)

ETA: Just found this:


http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/9n4uho52z...a92b5d0/000.jpg

..there were 4 airplanes at American Airlines gates. Flight 1361 was at Gate 21, flight 975 was at Gate 19, Flight 77 was at Gate 26.

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Mar 1 2011, 09:34 PM

[lauralee]

i think all the passengers were killed with gas or taken off the planes & killed elsewhere

[rob balsamo]

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10795222

Apparently airport workers confirm that gate D26 was used for embarking.

Passengers certainly could have boarded through Gate D26, and an aircraft could have departed from gate D26, but its not the same aircraft as represented in the data.

See more here for the latest desperate attempt at spin from those who cannot explain away the data.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10795573

Keep in mind, this is the morning bank out of Dulles. Aircraft are departing gates all over the place. It's morning rush hour. (which by the way, makes the above recording now offered by those who make excuses that much more hilarious).

[aerohead]

As i have expressed elsewhere on this forum, it appears the "pilots" didnt even care about their IRS alignment which seemed odd to me for an alleged revenue producing aircraft in passenger service.

It is claimed "additional" data was decoded from the raw file. They contain several flights prior to the "Sept 11" flight. None of them have been verified and i personally do not trust the people which claim to have performed the decode. However with that said, from what i understand, they claim all the flights are not IRS aligned.

Holy Dogshit ! If this is true Rob, this is HUGE ! As you have stated in this thread, the IRS system is the
brain of the entire Navigation system, without it, you are down to the "Whiskey Compass" and Dead Reckoning !
Different companies have different policies on what can be MEL'd (minimum equipment list of items that can be
deferred (INOP) while operating the aircraft for a short period of time, usually 10 days) but the IRS system is NOT one
of them on ANY airline i am aware of due to its importance for navigation. However, i believe one of the 3 INU's
(Inertial Navigation Unit- the unit that generates the nav info) may be deferred, but it must be the center one,
or moved to the center, leaving the left and right operable. But NOT all 3, or even 2, or the left or right. ONLY the
center. Im taking all this from memory on the 767, but i believe it is accurate and correct.


I gave Capt Kolstad another call regarding this issue. Procedures at American Airlines dictate IRS alignment on first flight of the day and every "Turn Check" (in between flights at the gate). If the IRS was not aligned (or could not be aligned), this is a "no-go" item at American Airlines. Meaning, the airplane should have been grounded until the IRS was fixed.

I concur. Ive never heard of ANY commercial flight, with this system, NOT using them, or allowed to
not use them.



Ralph is in the process of trying to dig out his old checklists.

I have a few other calls out to my other American Airlines connections as well, so hopefully we can get documentation for this.

If anyone reading this works at American, please feel free to post the checklists or send them to me at pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org. I will keep you anonymous if you so choose. Checklists should have a revision date as close as possible to Sept 11, 2001 as procedures could have changed.

I dont work for AA, but we align the IRS on our MX preflight to check that they operate properly, and then
shut them down. The crew aligns them for their flight, EVERY flight, and if they fault, we move the faulty
INU to the center (if its the problem), or the plane is down. Period. No question. Cannot fly per our MEL,
with the entire IRS down.




If the data decoded for the past flights is genuine (meaning it was generated by an aircraft)..... this is further evidence that this data did not come from an aircraft operated by American Airlines generating revenue through passenger service. This also explains why the Flight Deck Door data shows that the door was never open for a hijack to occur, and perhaps why it was closed on all past flights.

In the absense of a real investigation by our stewards, we must do it ourselves.
Good work Rob and everyone. Can you say Bombshell ?