The PenRen Generator?, split & merged threads Options

[Ricochet]

Would anyone like to discuss the generator trailer? Triaxle, 8'6 x 40' x 13'6"

[EDIT: Generator posts split from here by d:

What Hit The Pentagon? Nothing., Listened to this yesterday
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...=12341&st=0 ]

[tnemelckram]

Hi All!

I'm following up on what dMz said about the relatively low volatility of diesel, propane and other commonly used fuels for common purposes, and the obvious good reasons for using such low volatility fuels when you can have just about any spazz using them(1).

Jet f fuel is more akin to kerosene, which is the common Coleman Stove fuel, and also more akin to diesel and propane, in terms of less volatility. So, for the above given reasons as well as its inherent proximity to commercial airline passengers and likely involvement in disasters that are also likely involve such passengers.

What this means is that for the same reasons that these fuels are not likely to result in secondary pyrotechnics at the Pentagon, they are also not likely to result in the type of "Hot Jet Fuel Fires" that are essential to collapsing the WTC's, and thus also essential to the Official Conspiracy Theory. The WTC's are what really matter, because once you accept this as false the Pentagon must also fall as false, regardless of details such as the fuel source for the things around the Pentagon that appear in the photos.

Napoleon said that all he worried about was destroying the enemy' main body; after that, secondary matters will settle themselves. The WTC's are the enemy's main body, the fuel for things around the Pentagon are secondary matters..

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(1) After all, it is known in advance that a high percentage of the campers using these types of fuels in Coleman Stoves and backyard barbecue's are "partying" at he same time. At least that's been my experience!

[dMz]

Hi All!

I'm following up on what dMz said about the relatively low volatility of diesel...

Hi TN,

I think you might be mixing up the different physical properties of several different kinds of fuels here.

First there is quite a bit of information about Jet A and Jet A-1 "jet fuel" on this thread:
Jet Fuel Burn Rates
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...ic=28&st=20

Jet A is basically kerosene (which is also essentially Diesel #1 fuel oil):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_oil
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"Coleman stove fuel" could be taken to mean White Gas/naphtha, or else canistered (LP gas) propane, or even unleaded automotive-grade "mogas" gasoline (more recently), depending upon whose "Coleman stove" and what vintage. I remember seeing some "dual fuel" Coleman stoves and lanterns a few years back that would use either unleaded automotive gasoline or White Gas (with the White Gas likely being "hotter" and far "cleaner").

White gas/naphtha is HIGHLY volatile, and burns relatively "hot" and "clean" compared to other liquid hydrocarbons (being a relatively low molecular weight petroleum distillate).

Naphtha (pronounced /ˈnæfθə/ or /ˈnæpθə/) normally refers to a number of different flammable liquid mixtures of hydrocarbons, i.e. a distillation product from petroleum or coal tar boiling in a certain range and containing certain hydrocarbons. It is a broad term covering the lightest and most volatile fraction of the liquid hydrocarbons in petroleum. Naphtha is a colorless to reddish-brown volatile aromatic liquid, very similar to gasoline.

In petroleum engineering, full range naphtha is defined as the fraction of hydrocarbons in petroleum boiling between 30 °C and 200 °C.[1] It consists of a complex mixture of hydrocarbon molecules generally having between 5 and 12 carbon atoms. It typically constitutes 15–30% of crude oil, by weight. Light naphtha is the fraction boiling between 30 °C and 90 °C and consists of molecules with 5–6 carbon atoms. Heavy naphtha boils between 90 °C and 200 °C and consists of molecules with 6–12 carbons.

Naphtha is used primarily as feedstock for producing high octane gasoline (via the catalytic reforming process). It is also used in the petrochemical industry for producing olefins in steam crackers and in the chemical industry for solvent (cleaning) applications. Common products made with it include lighter fluid, fuel for camp stoves, and some cleaning solvents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha

Coleman® Fuel

Also called white gas or camping fuel, you can't beat it for camping in the winter or at high altitude. Burns hot even at subzero temperatures. And unlike butane and propane, output doesn't falter as temperatures drop. Coleman® Fuel is very refined, and burns hotter and cleaner than other liquid fuels. It's relatively inexpensive and not difficult to come by. By carrying the fuel in small refillable fuel bottles, you don't have the disposal considerations you do with empty propane or butane cylinders. But unlike appliances that use those fuels, you do need to fill liquid-fuel appliances. And for steady output, they need to be pumped occasionally to maintain pressure within the fuel tank.
Main advantages: heat output and economy.

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/choose_fuel.asp

I remember hearing some 'old timer Conoco station rumors' that White Gas compared to "avgas", but that was before my time and I will "neither confirm nor deny" on that part and I make no guarantees here on any of that, and the specific formulations and properties of specific liquid hydrocarbons can and have changed over time.
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Personally, I would classify propane (and natural gas/methane) as fuel/explosive (or else they would not work very well in "spark ignition" internal combustion engines, but I digress). In fact, flour and some dusts can also behave in the fuel/explosive category (similar to propane) in certain conditions:

Silo explosion kills NY assistant chief
Garrett W. Loomis was among firefighters dealing with flare ups at a farm
The Associated Press
HOUNSFIELD, N.Y. ...

http://www.firerescue1.com/volunteer/artic...ssistant-chief/

Grain Silo Explosion Knocks Home Off Foundation
Authorities in Norwalk are investigating what caused a grain elevator to collapse on Ohio Street near North Hester Road. (November 30, 2010)...

http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-grain-elevato...0,7340334.story

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_dust

The Explosive Truth About Modern Flour Mills
By Alexis Madrigal , March 4, 2008 | 1:42 pm

Baking bread might be a relaxing weekend activity, but making the flour that goes into that bread is a dangerous business. Ever since the Washburn flour mill explosion near Minneapolis in 1878 killed 18 people, the milling industry has tried to reduce the risk of flour particles igniting into flour bombs. Unfortunately, that’s tougher than it sounds. In fact, General Mills’ Gold Medal Flour factory, uses "explosion-proof" motors for added protection.

“Flour dust that is suspended in air is more explosive than coal dust," Paul Steinlage, milling manager, told Food Engineering Magazine this month. "With the number of motors we need to run the mill, we absolutely have to have the best explosion-proof motors so we feel protected.”

Throughout agriculture and food processing, there were 115 reported dust explosions [pdf] between 1994 and 2003, the most recent numbers available, most of them in grain elevators.

http://www.oznet.k-state.edu/historicpubli..._Explosions.pdf
...

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/03/the-explosive-t/

Incidentally, I have found that propane stoves, lanterns, and torches do not work well (or sometimes at all) at elevations above 7500 feet, especially in "cold" temperatures.
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Here's a little bit about aviation fuel or "avgas" (and both the elevation and "cold" factors have HUGE implications in this context re: carburetor icing, engine timing, etc.):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas
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Personally, I have tried to transition from both propane and "Coleman fuel" to "woodgas/gasifier" stoves (for both self-sufficiency and high-altitude reasons, in addition to not needing to carry expen$ive, stinky, leaky fuel cans or expen$ive, clanging, often-empty propane cylinders). "Woodgas" is a flammable mixture of carbon monoxide (CO) and hydrogen gas (H₂) that is one of the cleanest, hottest burning hydrocarbon fuels in an oxygen "concentrating" stove or oven design (although I haven't seen a barbecue application yet, possibly due to the extremely hot temperatures in the designs that I've seen/"fired" being excessive for barbecuing).

Wood Gas Stove

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wc8aqW4XBs

http://www.woodgas.org.uk/

http://www.woodgas.com/Woodgas%20stove.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasification
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Clear as charcoal? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

EDIT: Maybe I should split a few more posts off from the PenRen Generator thread to a "hydrocarbon fuels" thread?

[dMz]

I remember hearing some 'old timer Conoco station rumors' that White Gas compared to "avgas", but that was before my time and I will "neither confirm nor deny" on that part and I make no guarantees here on any of that, and the specific formulations and properties of specific liquid hydrocarbons can and have changed over time.
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Personally, I would classify propane (and natural gas/methane) as fuel/explosive (or else they would not work very well in "spark ignition" internal combustion engines, but I digress). In fact, flour and some dusts can also behave in the fuel/explosive category (similar to propane) in certain conditions:

Speaking ofr CONOCO stations...:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapplegate/3552852196/#/ [apparently the whiny bitches won't allow 'contact...'