Question For Cit (and Others) About Potential Evidence Of Flyover Video Options

[weneedanswers]

Good evening,

This is my first post. First off, great work done by CIT and P4T.

I want to get your thoughts on this video of what seems to be Porter Goss on 9/11 (presumably in D.C.). It sounds like there is an explosion and then an obvious sound of a plane flying over him and the reporters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39t9RJh9yW4

Questions:
1. Are you familiar with this?
2. Have these people been interviewed (me thinks some of them might have seen a white plane like the one described in CIT videos)?

There has to be a way to identify these people and find out what they saw (Highly Doubt Goss would answer you questions).

[Craig Ranke CIT]

Hi weneedanswers,

Yes we've seen that video and it is interesting, however without confirmation of the exact time and location there is no way to know what the sounds we hear in the video are from.

I personally believe this was some time after the attack and the explosion you hear is a secondary explosion and the plane is a fighter jet approaching the scene.

We've been trying to find the original source video to confirm the time with no luck.

As you said it's highly doubtful that Porter Goss will talk and we don't know the names of anyone else in the video so it's impossible to track them down.

[A. Syed]

One thing that's for sure: the explosion is a ground level explosion, therefore it can only be the Pentagon attack. This can not possibly be a sonic boom from a fighter jet, because a sonic boom is only heard at the moment the jet passes by the person. As the plane's speed catches up to the sound waves that are being emitted from the noise created by the said plane, the soundwaves get pushed out the way and you can actually SEE the soundwaves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BArpqYspIgU

Not to mention that a fighter jet would most likely not be going supersonic while in the DC area; that would happen over rural America as it scrambles to, say, the Shanksville area.

The explosion on the Porter Goss video clearly comes from ground level and is concentrated and localized, with people on the video turning their heads to the direction of the explosion. The only place where explosion(s) occurred on 9/11 in the DC area is at the Pentagon. So it seems quite certain that the Pentagon is the source of the explosion. So the question is the time.

The clip comes from a documentary released last year by National Geographic, entitled Witness D.C. 9/11. Here is the entire thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfwsjF8X5U

It's 45 minutes and while it is not a truth movement video, it is a treasure trove of much raw footage, never seen before, much of which is potentially quite incriminating to the official story.

But Craig is right, this should not be cited as proof of anything without some verification of the time and place of this interview.

[Craig Ranke CIT]

The explosion on the Porter Goss video clearly comes from ground level and is concentrated and localized, with people on the video turning their heads to the direction of the explosion. The only place where explosion(s) occurred on 9/11 in the DC area is at the Pentagon. So it seems quite certain that the Pentagon is the source of the explosion. So the question is the time.

There were secondary explosions that seemed louder than the primary violent event.

Although the guy cited in this post took the video down, paranoia also talks about his own firsthand account of a MASSIVE secondary explosion after 10:00 in the following thread:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17504

They both described it as much stronger than the initial explosion.

paranoia:

i personally felt it firsthand because i lived near there & i remember being freaked out. whatever this 2nd explosion was, it shook everything in my house, even though i lived within a mile of the pentagon. the first explosion, u know the one from when the plane supposedly hit the building, that boom did not have the strength of this second explosion, because i did not feel it (the "impact" explosion) a mile away. but the second boom was massive, the earth rumbled when it happened.

This post has been edited by Craig Ranke CIT: Jun 7 2011, 09:23 PM

[A. Syed]

One thing that seems clear is that the video is quite incriminating to the official story any way you look at it. The official story does not involve explosives at the Pentagon, so if people try to debunk "flyover" by attempting to prove that this occurred later in the morning/afternoon, they are still destroying the official story by admitting that there were secondary explosions.

[A. Syed]

So, if it's a secondary explosion, the the next logical question is: Could jet fuel reacting with materials inside the Pentagon have caused such a huge explosion heard and felt so far away? (Admittedly that's a pretty rhetorical question as the answer is obvious.)

So unless it's a sonic boom, this proves that explosives were used at the Pentagon, which is itself fatal to the official story.

Naturally, at the govt loyalist site, they realize this. While the first posts at the top of the thread agree that the explosion is obviously at ground level, confirmed by the sound itself but also by the fact that the people who turn and look toward the explosion are looking at ground level (the initial posters seemed content merely to say "this ain't proof of flyover"), we later find some of the govt loyalist site's most notoriously rabid anti-truthers (starting with Beachnut) opining that "OF COURSE!" it's "OBVIOUS!" that this is a sonic boom! Because a sonic boom is the ONLY way to reconcile this video with the official story, flyover or not.

It ain't a sonic boom, folks. Just add this to the ever growing list of 9/11 Zapruder Films...

http://govtloyalistsite.org/showthread.php?t=211446

[rob balsamo]

Naturally, at the govt loyalist site, they realize this. While the first posts at the top of the thread agree that the explosion is obviously at ground level, confirmed by the sound itself but also by the fact that the people who turn and look toward the explosion are looking at ground level (the initial posters seemed content merely to say "this ain't proof of flyover"), we later find some of the govt loyalist site's most notoriously rabid anti-truthers (starting with Beachnut) opining that "OF COURSE!" it's "OBVIOUS!" that this is a sonic boom! Because a sonic boom is the ONLY way to reconcile this video with the official story, flyover or not.

It ain't a sonic boom, folks. Just add this to the ever growing list of 9/11 Zapruder Films...

http://govtloyalistsite.org/showthread.php?t=211446

lol.... why am i not surprised Farmer and Beachnut still read this site religiously.

Has Beachnut been able to tell the difference between a 757 and an A320 yet?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

Seems not even Farmer believes Beachnut's BS anymore. Not surprising Retreat came to Beachnut's rescue. Farmer and ReTreat better watch themselves. With the new laws in TN, they may post something that may get them arrested (Farmer lives in Memphis and Retreat is in Knoxville for those wondering).

[Craig Ranke CIT]

So, if it's a secondary explosion, the the next logical question is: Could jet fuel reacting with materials inside the Pentagon have caused such a huge explosion heard and felt so far away? (Admittedly that's a pretty rhetorical question as the answer is obvious.)

So unless it's a sonic boom, this proves that explosives were used at the Pentagon, which is itself fatal to the official story.

How could it be "obvious" by the sound of the boom in the film that it was caused by explosives?

There were several reported secondary explosions as the Pentagon burned for hours after the attack.

Ted Anderson reported: "Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one."
http://www.911-strike.com/eyewitness_supporting.htm

You can only speculate what the source of that sound is so that can't possibly be "proof" of anything.

[A. Syed]

Well, OK, true.

Either that guy is telling the truth, or his story serves as the Pentagon parallel of the WTC7 diesel fuel story! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I guess the issue lies in the POWER of the explosion and how it was heard and felt so far away (must be 2 miles or so).

WAC NJ also posted a youtube of this clip with the title "Bomb goes off at Pentagon during Porter Goss interview." The people I've shown this to in person all have the immediate reaction that it sounds like a bomb.

But true, we don't know exactly what happened outside that camera's view. But what does happen on camera is of potential significance, even if not proven down to the time stamp like the BBC WTC7 clip was.

This post has been edited by A. Syed: Jun 14 2011, 02:53 AM

[paranoia]

I guess the issue lies in the POWER of the explosion and how it was heard and felt so far away (must be 2 miles or so).

it was felt up to over 4 actual miles away. check the link: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17504 - you can either read my account (i was much closer) or that of a lady who's account is saved at the library of congress folklore archives, she was near tc williams high school which is over 5 driving miles away from the pentagon.

[A. Syed]

Thanks paranoia.

And if indeed the subsequent explosions were MORE powerful than the first, and if the first was either caused by bomb/explosives or a jetliner crash, it doesn't seem likely that the subsequent explosions, felt so far away, were reactions of two different fuels since they'd surely be weaker than the original.

[A. Syed]

Ted Anderson reported: "Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one."
http://www.911-strike.com/eyewitness_supporting.htm

This account takes for granted the notion that a plane loaded with aviation fuel crashed into the Pentagon. (Unless there was planted aviation fuel.)

ETA: Even though that URL of which the quote is sourced is using these quotes to argue against the 757 strike because the said witness (Anderson) doesn't specifically mention plane parts, only fuel tanks

This post has been edited by A. Syed: Jun 14 2011, 04:02 AM

[Craig Ranke CIT]

The point is that unless more details about this clip surface all we can do is speculate about what we hear.

We don't know what caused the explosion sound OR for certain the exact location that it comes from.

We don't know what plane they heard or exactly where it was coming from or going.

We don't know the time.

We don't even know the exact location of the interview.

Therefore we simply can not come to any definitive conclusions based on the sounds you hear in this clip.

[onesliceshort]

The Goss video clip has confused the crap out of me.

I personally don't believe that the blast heard was at 10:10AM. There are no sirens to be heard.



This video (I had always supposed) was the 10:10am explosion caught by an amateur ("1 of 4" he claimed to hear - the one he caught in this video was mistakenly thought to be the "State Department") and sirens can be heard afterwards too:



Associated Press released the State Department explosion rumour at 10:11AM (and was also quoted as coming from "senior law enforcement officials" on MSM:

http://www.ap.org/log/APNewsalertsandFlashes.pdf

So the amateur footage leans more towards the 10:10AM explosion.

But then you listen to the FOX News footage and no sirens can be heard until the very end (strange assuming that the amateur footage was taken around Roslyn(?) - you need headphones for this:



Maybe it has something to do with the way the sound travelled, I'm not sure.

I would rule out 10:10AM on the above.


As regards the "sonic booms", officially, the F16s that flew out to sea and back again were under orders to fly at "Maximum Sonic". That is, that they weren't to break the sound barrier.

http://htmlimg3.scribdassets.com/e6v8m3grj...05e0b67/000.jpg

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9230/f16maxsonic.jpg

The same F16 pilot claimed that he and two others were "alone for an hour" in the skies over DC

http://htmlimg1.scribdassets.com/e6v8m3grj...2602400/000.jpg

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/9449/f161hour.jpg

The only other account from an alleged F16 flyover of the Pentagon before 10AM is from this guy:

Instructions to Inspect the Pentagon - Then Captain Craig Borgstrom, one of the other two Langley pilots, calls him and says that NORAD’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) wants to know the extent of the damage at the Pentagon. Eckmann flies over it and reports that the two outer rings have been damaged. NEADS wants to know if he can tell what has happened. He guesses it was “a big fuel tanker truck because of the amount of smoke and flames coming up and nobody indicated anything about an airplane. And there was no airplane wreckage off to the side.” [FILSON, 2003, PP. 66] But he will give a different account to the 9/11 Commission, telling it: “I reverted to the Russian threat.… I’m thinking cruise missile threat from the sea. You know you look down and see the Pentagon burning and I thought the bastards snuck one by us.… [N]o one told us anything.” According to the Commission, the Langley pilots have not been briefed about why they were scrambled.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041020144854/.../911_Report.txt

So I don't think he'd have seen those details from 20000ft at supersonic speed, ya know? That is, if it's true (as with all of the accounts above)

The only other reported F16 sightings that are allegedly low flyovers are after the evacuation at at least 10:15AM.

IMHO, the blast heard is either the second fireball at @09:46AM or one of the alleged two others afterwards. I lean more towards the 09:46 second fireball. But I could be wrong!

[amazed!]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this one! Great little find.

I tend to agree with A. Sayed. It would be awesome to know exactly where and when it was, but assuming that it was anywhere on the grounds of the Pentagon, it certainly souds like a flyby of a transport category aircraft.

[paranoia]

here in this bbc doc called "Clear the Skies" Goss explicitly states that he was inside the capitol building when the pentagon was hit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...DcSKnvqQ#t=290s

-so the boom heard in the natgeo clip was not the pentagon plane attack.

[9/11 Justice Now]

Post deleted just forget it.

This post has been edited by 9/11 Justice Now: Aug 27 2011, 01:10 AM

[9/11 Justice Now]

here in this bbc doc called "Clear the Skies" Goss explicitly states that he was inside the capitol building when the pentagon was hit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...DcSKnvqQ#t=290s

-so the boom heard in the natgeo clip was not the pentagon plane attack.

So yes Porter Goss was inside the Pentagon when the plane hit, so the footage of the explosion when he is giving the interview
must have been taken after the plane supposidly hit the Pentagon, so what could have created such a large explosion pre planted
explosives perhaps, becasue it certainly sounds like a bomb going of, not some stupid gas or propane bottle such as the idiotic
back patting government defending duh bunkers would have you believe. But we still dont know the exact time of the explosion
in the Porter Goss video.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by 9/11 Justice Now: Aug 27 2011, 01:19 AM

[Craig Ranke CIT]

here in this bbc doc called "Clear the Skies" Goss explicitly states that he was inside the capitol building when the pentagon was hit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...DcSKnvqQ#t=290s

-so the boom heard in the natgeo clip was not the pentagon plane attack.

Very significant find, great job!

This really underscores the importance of full confirmation and verification of all information we cite to support our claims.

[paranoia]

So yes Porter Goss was inside the Pentagon when the plane hit, so the footage of the explosion when he is giving the interview
must have been taken after the plane supposidly hit the Pentagon, so what could have created such a large explosion pre planted
explosives perhaps, becasue it certainly sounds like a bomb going of, not some stupid gas or propane bottle such as the idiotic
back patting government defending duh bunkers would have you believe.

i wish i knew with certainty what caused the "boom", but i dont. if you scroll up i shared a link to a thread about my experience of a second explosion around 10:08am that day, which imo sounded very similar to whats heard in the natgeo clip ("dc witness"). speaking of which, if you watched the whole thing or at least the part shortly after the goss clip, it attempts to explain this boom as being the sound of an f16. but neither of the 2 clips they show of a fighter plane flying over dc skies is of a plane making that sound or even going fast enough to make that sound.

apparently, an "f16 sonic boom" is the explanation most people on the dc side were given and it seems to have stuck with them. in an effort to find the answer to this goss video mystery, i ran in to 5 seperate accounts of people hearing that boom and reasoning that it was an f16:

http://www.holycross.edu/departments/publi...ters/index.html
http://reason.com/archives/2001/09/11/live...apitol-building
http://livingcanvas.wordpress.com/2008/09/...hrough-my-eyes/

this is senator graham's account (note: immediately prior to the goss footage, he is seen in the natgeo doc exiting the senate side of the capitol building)
http://books.google.com/books?id=HI1zkhz9H...p;q&f=false
-the relevant quote is not in the free version of the google book, but i found a free version of the audio book and uploaded the relevant quote - u can download it here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?355ozxnd0t6gn2t

also in dc - reporter downtown says he heard explosions from the direction of the lincoln memorial, but then dismisses it as maybe being sonic booms (realtime 11:10am is when he speaks of it, but it happened earlier):
http://www.archive.org/details/fox52001091...-1117?start=0.5

-so all of the above people experienced a boom and saw a fighter jet overhead and associated the 2 as being related.

on the virginia side, please refer to that "second explosion" thread for most of the accounts (including mine). but here is an account (not posted in that thread yet) which mentions a second explosion:
http://www.archive.org/details/fox52001091...36?start=1019.5
-at 20:40 (roughly 10:14am real time) - some guy off screens asks/says that second boom was something hitting the washington monument (u might have to turn up the volume loud to hear him)

me personally, ive never been present during an actual fighter jet causing a sonic boom, so i cant say 100% that what i felt wasnt one (neverminding that the planes that day did not so supersonic). but as mentioned in that other thread, it felt to me (in arlington 1 mile or less west of the pentagon) like the concussion radiated up from the ground and not down from the sky. btw - i also recall that given how close what we felt was to the pentagon wall collapse, that some reasoned that thats what caused the boom, but i know for sure that the wall fell a few minutes after the boom, not during it.


see also:
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?...tagonexplosions