Question For Cit (and Others) About Potential Evidence Of Flyover Video Options

[paranoia]

But we still dont know the exact time of the explosion in the Porter Goss video.

watch the rest of that BBC "clear the skies" documentary, where many of goss' actions are spelled out. but goss is officially on record as being on the floor of the House at 9:52am, where he calls everyone to a quick prayer:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/crecord/01crpgs.html
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...mp;position=all

RECESS
The SPEAKER pro tempore. There
being no further requests for morning
hour debates, pursuant to clause 12,
rule I, the House will stand in recess
until 10 a.m. today.
Accordingly (at 9 o’clock and 20 minutes
a.m.) the House stood in recess
until 10 a.m. today.

0952
AFTER RECESS
The House was called to order by the
Speaker pro tempore (Mr. GOSS) at 9
o’clock and 52 minutes a.m., thereby
terminating the recess.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Due to
the circumstances of today, the Chair
calls the House to order at this time.
The prayer will be offered by the
guest chaplain.

PRAYER
The Reverend Gerard Creedon, St.
Charles Borromeo Catholic Church, offered
the following prayer:
God of peace and life, send Your spirit
to heal our country; bring consolation
to all injured in today’s tragedy in
New York and Washington. Protect us
and help our leaders to lead us out of
this moment of crisis to a new day of
peace. Amen.

RECESS
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
House will stand in recess subject to
the call of the Chair, pursuant to
clause 12 of rule I.
Accordingly (at 9 o’clock and 53 minutes
a.m.), the House stood in recess
subject to the call of the Chair.


1003

AFTER RECESS
The recess having expired, the House
was called to order at 10 o’clock and 3
minutes a.m.

-the house goes into recess at 10:03am, and Goss and house speaker Hastert are then evacuated. my guess is that they then ended up outside of the house side of the capitol building and thats when goss gave that brief interview, a few minutes after 10am. my own personal memory of the boom is that it took place at 10:08am that day, and this would fit goss' timeline.

[9/11 Justice Now]

i wish i knew with certainty what caused the "boom", but i dont. if you scroll up i shared a link to a thread about my experience of a second explosion around 10:08am that day, which imo sounded very similar to whats heard in the natgeo clip ("dc witness"). speaking of which, if you watched the whole thing or at least the part shortly after the goss clip, it attempts to explain this boom as being the sound of an f16. but neither of the 2 clips they show of a fighter plane flying over dc skies is of a plane making that sound or even going fast enough to make that sound.

apparently, an "f16 sonic boom" is the explanation most people on the dc side were given and it seems to have stuck with them. in an effort to find the answer to this goss video mystery, i ran in to 5 seperate accounts of people hearing that boom and reasoning that it was an f16:

http://www.holycross.edu/departments/publi...ters/index.html
http://reason.com/archives/2001/09/11/live...apitol-building
http://livingcanvas.wordpress.com/2008/09/...hrough-my-eyes/

this is senator graham's account (note: immediately prior to the goss footage, he is seen in the natgeo doc exiting the senate side of the capitol building)
http://books.google.com/books?id=HI1zkhz9H...p;q&f=false
-the relevant quote is not in the free version of the google book, but i found a free version of the audio book and uploaded the relevant quote - u can download it here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?355ozxnd0t6gn2t

also in dc - reporter downtown says he heard explosions from the direction of the lincoln memorial, but then dismisses it as maybe being sonic booms (realtime 11:10am is when he speaks of it, but it happened earlier):
http://www.archive.org/details/fox52001091...-1117?start=0.5

-so all of the above people experienced a boom and saw a fighter jet overhead and associated the 2 as being related.

on the virginia side, please refer to that "second explosion" thread for most of the accounts (including mine). but here is an account (not posted in that thread yet) which mentions a second explosion:
http://www.archive.org/details/fox52001091...36?start=1019.5
-at 20:40 (roughly 10:14am real time) - some guy off screens asks/says that second boom was something hitting the washington monument (u might have to turn up the volume loud to hear him)

me personally, ive never been present during an actual fighter jet causing a sonic boom, so i cant say 100% that what i felt wasnt one (neverminding that the planes that day did not so supersonic). but as mentioned in that other thread, it felt to me (in arlington 1 mile or less west of the pentagon) like the concussion radiated up from the ground and not down from the sky. btw - i also recall that given how close what we felt was to the pentagon wall collapse, that some reasoned that thats what caused the boom, but i know for sure that the wall fell a few minutes after the boom, not during it.


see also:
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?...tagonexplosions

Seriously dude the govt loyalists are wrong if they choose to believe the sonic boom was created by an f16 jet going overhead,
that conclusion is not supported by any evidence so it is bunk, but what i do know is that when explosive devices are detonated
bombs, the explosions can be heard from up to a mile away or even further this is a well know and documented FACT and also
it is not apparent that Porter Goss at the time of the incident is a fair distance away from the pentagon? i would say he is atleast
half a mile away from the pentagon, but that is just my estimate.

That fact that he is a fair distance away, and the fact that the explosion can be heard without any trouble from a fair distance
away from the pentagon increased the likely hood that the explosion is a result of an explosive device, i highly doubt a gas or
propane bottle could explode with enough force to be heard at that volume up to half a mile away, and i have seen no evidence
that suggests that there where gas pipes present in that area of the pentagon which could possibly explain the sound of the
explosion.

That is just what i think but of course i could be wrong.

[amazed!]

How do we know Porter Goss is not lying about where he was?

[paranoia]

Seriously dude the govt loyalists are wrong if they choose to believe the sonic boom was created by an f16 jet going overhead,
that conclusion is not supported by any evidence so it is bunk, but what i do know is that when explosive devices are detonated
bombs, the explosions can be heard from up to a mile away or even further this is a well know and documented FACT and also
it is not apparent that Porter Goss at the time of the incident is a fair distance away from the pentagon? i would say he is atleast
half a mile away from the pentagon, but that is just my estimate.

That fact that he is a fair distance away, and the fact that the explosion can be heard without any trouble from a fair distance
away from the pentagon increased the likely hood that the explosion is a result of an explosive device, i highly doubt a gas or
propane bottle could explode with enough force to be heard at that volume up to half a mile away, and i have seen no evidence
that suggests that there where gas pipes present in that area of the pentagon which could possibly explain the sound of the
explosion.

perhaps you understood me, but i agree with you. i am NOT saying it was f16's or small propane tanks, or even a car's gas tank - and so far, nothing any skeptic has presented sufficiently explains it away. whatever it was, it was huge and many people heard and felt it (even up to 4 miles away from the pentagon - on the virginia side). but as huge as it was, noone - including people in the immediate vicinity of the pentagon - seems to have actually witnessed any sort of fireball or physical disturbance (like stuff blowing up or being moved) that accompanied this "boom". so although we can say (with fair certainty) what it wasnt, we still cant definitively saw what it was, so it remains a mystery.


but for more info please read the "second explosion" thread:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17504



***

How do we know Porter Goss is not lying about where he was?

goss is coroborrated by hastert and partially by senator graham (who was attending "breakfast" with goss, kyl, and general ahmad). plus the official house record shows goss was on the house floor at 9:52am. besides, why would goss lie? im not saying he is saint, but i cant see why he would lie about this particular detail of where he was when the pentagon was "hit" - cuz what would he gain from it? or what exactly would he be trying to cover up?

dont forget that you have multiple people describing this boom occurring AFTER the capitol is in the process of being evacuated, and that evacuation took place AFTER the pentagon was attacked. not to mention that i know for a fact that (give or take a couple of minutes) the boom that i felt took place at 10:08am. since there was only one large boom (after the attack), it has to be the one caught in the goss natgeo clip.

[amazed!]

I agree, Paranoia.

I was just curious.

[Sergio]

watch the rest of that BBC "clear the skies" documentary, where many of goss' actions are spelled out. but goss is officially on record as being on the floor of the House at 9:52am, where he calls everyone to a quick prayer:

-the house goes into recess at 10:03am, and Goss and house speaker Hastert are then evacuated. my guess is that they then ended up outside of the house side of the capitol building and thats when goss gave that brief interview, a few minutes after 10am. my own personal memory of the boom is that it took place at 10:08am that day, and this would fit goss' timeline.

goss is coroborrated by hastert and partially by senator graham (who was attending "breakfast" with goss, kyl, and general ahmad). plus the official house record shows goss was on the house floor at 9:52am. besides, why would goss lie? im not saying he is saint, but i cant see why he would lie about this particular detail of where he was when the pentagon was "hit" - cuz what would he gain from it? or what exactly would he be trying to cover up?

dont forget that you have multiple people describing this boom occurring AFTER the capitol is in the process of being evacuated, and that evacuation took place AFTER the pentagon was attacked. not to mention that i know for a fact that (give or take a couple of minutes) the boom that i felt took place at 10:08am. since there was only one large boom (after the attack), it has to be the one caught in the goss natgeo clip.

Hi paranoia,
did you ever consider the following facts?

1) Capitol Hill evacuation began as soon as 9:48 (see History Commons, 9:48 a.m. September 11, 2001: Capitol Building Evacuated due to Reports of Approaching Plane, but Evacuation Is Chaotic)
All sources report that the atmosphere at Capitol Hill after the Pentagon was hit was frantic, with congressmen, staffers, journalists and even tourists rushing to the streets around the House and the Capitol Police screaming very loudly to evacuate (see CNN transcripts, 9/11 2001). Also, it should be noted that the Capitol Police had had "word that an airplane is heading this way and could hit the building anytime."

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT:
[...] I was coming into the building, trying to get to work, but the Capitol police were screaming very loudly, evacuate. We need to get everybody out of the building right away! I ran around to the Senate side of the Capitol here, by the Senate plaza, and saw senators, staffers streaming out of the building, down the Capitol steps.

But they put us right here, probably about 100 yards from the Capitol. And we were here for several minutes, not knowing really what to do or where to go. But it was -- it was really chaos. But the chaos, Tony, turned to panic quickly because the Capitol police were hearing, in their radio, that there was a plane -- another plane in the air, likely headed for the Capitol. And they screamed like I've never heard screaming before, run as fast as you can, run for your life, because there's a plane headed for the Capitol.

(CNN transcripts, 9/11 2001)

Question. Is such a frantic and chaotic scenario compatible with what we see in the footage? Is that apparently peaceful and uneventful setting (at least until the blast at 0:20 is heard) what you would expect to see at 10:10 AM?

2) Two tourists are clearly visible in Porter Goss' footage
Two young girls with a backpack are clearly visible during Porter Goss' interview. They show up on the left behind Porter Goss at around 0:07-0:08 (one is wearing glasses), then both show up again for some frames on his right (at around 0:10-0:11) before disappearing. No doubt they are tourists.

Question. Is it plausible that two young tourists would be still visiting the House at 10:10, apparently calmly and walking at their leisure, almost 25 minutes after the Capitol evacuation began and when the Capitol Police was frantically ordering people to leave the House because another plane was expected to hit the building within minutes?

3) A guard is clearly visible in the footage
A guard appears on the background for almost the whole lenght of the footage. He paces calmly and does not appear as someone who's nervously trying to evacuate hundreds of people due to an upcoming plane possibly hitting the building.

Question. Is the behavior of this guard compatible with the 10:10 expected scenario?

4) No smoke visible, no sirens audible
After 9:37 smoke was clearly visible from Capitol Hill. There are many reports about this, here are some:

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony. And that's right, it was especially the attack on the Pentagon that immediately affected the people in the building, inside the Capitol, because the Pentagon is probably about two miles that way, behind the Capitol, and senators and staffers who were in meetings inside the Capitol could actually see the smoke billowing up from across the river at the Pentagon.

(CNN transcripts, 9/11 2001)

Another interesting source is Chicago Tribune, 9/12/2001:

Daschle was meeting Tuesday morning with his leadership team--a dozen Democratic senators--when the news came on television about planes crashing into the World Trade Center. As Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) watched the screen, he saw words scrolling across the bottom saying that the Pentagon had been bombed and announced it to his colleagues.

"Everyone stood up, looked out the window and saw smoke billowing up," Durbin said.

Question. While one could speculate that smoke is not visibile in Porter Goss' interview possibly due to the location of the interview (what can be easily proven as false, but let's forget about this detail for a moment), then why no sirens are audible during the clip as we would expect in a 10:10 AM scenario? Again, is the footage setting actually compatible with what we would expect to see and hear at Capitol Hill at 10:10?

All the above information and facts point to an earlier scenario than 10:10 AM, whereas 9:37 appears to me as the most probable.
So, which conflicting facts could possibly rule out a 9:37 scenario?
The first is the Congressional Record of the House, from which we know that at 9:52 Goss was the House speaker pro tempore:

0952
AFTER RECESS
The House was called to order by the
Speaker pro tempore (Mr. GOSS) at 9
o’clock and 52 minutes a.m., thereby
terminating the recess.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Due to
the circumstances of today, the Chair
calls the House to order at this time.
The prayer will be offered by the
guest chaplain.

PRAYER
The Reverend Gerard Creedon, St.
Charles Borromeo Catholic Church, offered the following prayer:
God of peace and life, send Your spirit to heal our country; bring consolation to all injured in today’s tragedy in
New York and Washington. Protect us
and help our leaders to lead us out of
this moment of crisis to a new day of
peace. Amen.
RECESS
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
House will stand in recess subject to
the call of the Chair, pursuant to
clause 12 of rule I.
Accordingly (at 9 o’clock and 53 minutes a.m.), the House stood in recess
subject to the call of the Chair.fb 1003
AFTER RECESS
The recess having expired, the House
was called to order at 10 o’clock and 3
minutes a.m.

a) Please note that 9:52 is well 15 minutes after 9:37. What did prevent Goss to be outside of the building at 9:37 giving an interview and being two floors up inside the Capitol building at 9:52? There would have been all the time for him to do that.
b) Also, how can you explain that Goss and other people would gather just outside the building at 10:10 AM to give an interview when all people had long been evacuated and the word had spread that another plane could possibly hit the building? Is it plausible?

The second conflicting "fact" is the statement of Goss himself in the BBC documentary. In my opinion, his own statement does not prove that he was really inside the building at the time of the Pentagon attack. Along with the possibility he's lying (which I would not completely dismiss at all in the case of Porter Goss), I can also speculate that his recollections may be inaccurate or overlapping (for example he didn't associate the blast heard during the interview to the moment when the Pentagon was allegedly hit by Flight 77). While one could object that I am only speculating (which is basically true), I could reply that assuming Goss was giving an interview just outside the building at 10:10 AM in such an unplausible and unexpected setting in a location that had begun to be evacuated 25 minutes before under the upcoming threat of another plane hitting the building is probably a bigger and bolder speculation.

CONCLUSION
While no conclusive evidence of the flyover can in any case be drawn from the low pass jet noise we hear in the footage, facts and other sources do not rule out completely the possibility that Goss' interview took place at 9:37. In fact, there are plenty of reasons to question that the footage scenario is compatible with what we would expect to see at 10:10 AM.

This post has been edited by Sergio: Sep 23 2011, 11:03 AM

[amazed!]

Interesting points.

I am very skeptical of Goss' truthiness, on any subject at all, especially this subject.

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Those are good points. P, do you have anything to add?

[FreshKills]

Hi paranoia,
did you ever consider the following facts?

.........snip............

CONCLUSION
While no conclusive evidence of the flyover can in any case be drawn from the low pass jet noise we hear in the footage, facts and other sources do not rule out completely the possibility that Goss' interview took place at 9:37. In fact, there are plenty of reasons to question that the footage scenario is compatible with what we would expect to see at 10:10 AM.

These are also excellent points. Just as Craig Ranke has rightly said that we should not use the Goss clip as "proof" to support anything before it is documented, neither should we also DISMISS this clip as potential evidence until thoroughly researched. It is still possible this could represent the filming of activity from 9:37am, perhaps even more than it fits the 10:10am time frame. Not conclusive either way at this point.

[A. Syed]

Bump.

The Goss clip is getting attention again on facebook and on 911blogger (thanks to a new clip put out by Alex Jones which features the Goss event).

It must be underscored that Goss himself has gone on the record, at just after 4:30 in this video, as saying he was INSIDE the Capitol during the 9:37 event.

It MIGHT be that Goss was lying about where he was, and that the "bomb" clip was indeed at 9:37, but at this point we will never know. As such, my interest in the "bomb goes off at Pentagon during Goss interview" clip has reached its expiration date.



This post has been edited by A. Syed: Jun 13 2012, 10:50 PM

[DoYouEverWonder]

0952
AFTER RECESS
The House was called to order by the
Speaker pro tempore (Mr. GOSS) at 9
o’clock and 52 minutes a.m., thereby
terminating the recess.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Due to
the circumstances of today, the Chair
calls the House to order at this time.
The prayer will be offered by the
guest chaplain.

What a load of crap. The House was in recess at this point and supposedly they went back into session (called to order) so that everyone could say a prayer. There is no way this would happen if we were really under attack. Unless of course, you know you're not in any real danger. Then you can put on a show for the cameras and for the record, to try to create an alibi for you and your friends who knew what was really going on.

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Jun 14 2012, 07:05 AM

[Aquila7]

This thread has been quite interesting and since I read it first I've come upon a video that pretty much indicates that the porter goss mini press conference took place before or during the flight 77 attack. So Goss was either confused about the time line or lying. If I had to bet, I know which one I'd bet on.

I looked but I couldn't find a way to post videos, so here's the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwBX_XPTrrE

It's clear the 10:10 "explosion" was the collapse of the damaged pentagon section.

Here's Operation 40 & Good 'Ol Porter (second from left, next to ---Barry Seal and Felix Rodriguez. Sturgis is across the table hiding his face. Goss sure was busy that day,, wasn't he- having breakfast with the guy the FBI says financed Atta.

(IMG:http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7016/operation40.jpg)

I think Phillip Marshall might have been on to something...
http://thebigbamboozle.tumblr.com/

[onesliceshort]

It's clear the 10:10 "explosion" was the collapse of the damaged pentagon section.

10:10 explosion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7Li2FNnnms

Collapse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsDigJg0h4U

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Mar 26 2013, 04:59 PM