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Aircraft Swap - Scene From 9/11: Intercepted

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rob balsamo
post Jul 25 2012, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Jul 25 2012, 04:01 PM) *
hey K, i wasnt aware (though i now understand) that there was more than one e4b, or at least - more than one e4b captured on tape - so im a little lost in this discussion,



Hi p,

Basically what were are discussing....., there were two E4B's which departed Andrews according to govt reports. No one really disputes this...

Word31 (sometimes referred to as Sword31), which departed before the attack on the pentagon and headed west after doing a "dosey-do" with "AA77", and then later another E4B, Venus77 which departed just after the attack.

We all are aware of the infamous video from CNN showing a low flying E4B over DC. Of course the govt stonewalled such inquires into this aircraft for many years... but the flood of inquires perhaps became too much.

Govt reports and loyalists now claim that the low flying aircraft which was seen in the CNN video was Venus 77. However, according kawika, the radar shows Venus77 at 7000-8000 feet at the locations reported (near the White House). Some of this, yes, was captured on video at such higher altitude, but I also recall seeing video of an E4B around 1500-2000 feet in the area.

If this is the case, there were 3 (three!) E4B's in the DC skies that morning, one of which is unaccounted for..... the low flying E4B.

Hope this helps....
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paranoia
post Jul 25 2012, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE
Hope this helps....

-it does - immensely, thanks man!

QUOTE
then later another E4B, Venus77 which departed just after the attack... Govt reports and loyalists now claim that the low flying aircraft which was seen in the CNN video was Venus 77.

-can you expand on that please - whats the implication? are they trying to use it to deny that the decoy jet flew east of the potomac?
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rob balsamo
post Jul 25 2012, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Jul 25 2012, 04:30 PM) *
-can you expand on that please - whats the implication?


Don't know my friend... that's what we're trying to figure out.... :-)
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paranoia
post Jul 25 2012, 03:40 PM
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doh1.gif

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kawika
post Jul 25 2012, 03:52 PM
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The screenshot above shows the high flier, probably the V77 on its N/westward track.

Contrast that shot with the CNN low flier that drifts slowly behind some trees (unknown time and location).



You can see this whole clip here at mark 5:15

CNN--E4B --1/2 way down page, three videos, CNN Unknown,

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Norman_Mineta

The Goss clip indicates a low flier as the sound level is quite distinct. We do not know when this was taken, but it appears Goss was looking east while the camera was facing SW from the Southeast corner of the Capitol.



Again, there is no way the high flier could get that low to be seen and heard.

We need to nail down where the low flier was captured from and when.

This post has been edited by kawika: Jul 25 2012, 04:12 PM
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paranoia
post Jul 25 2012, 04:07 PM
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this low flyer:
http://imagesource.cnn.com/imagesource/Vie...rowseActionBean
(starting at 01:21:25)

was filmed from near here (Old Executive Building can be seen in the clip above):
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/sec-ports-dc/sec-ports-dc.htm


re: goss - i - DO know when it was filmed, 10:08am. i heard that boom live that day, it shook my house. im not saying i know what plane is flying over in the goss clip (my guess is its a fighter jet though i am NOT saying the jet caused the boom), but i can tell you for a fact that that distinctive boom happened at exactly 10:08am (according to the clock on my cablebox or vcr), because i made sure to mark it outloud with a friend who was present with me that day.
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rob balsamo
post Jul 25 2012, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Jul 25 2012, 05:07 PM) *


Yes.. .that's it!


Save that video folks... do what you can.

The video starts of a high flying aircraft near 7000-8000 at 1:21:35 clip...... then a edit/cut to a low flying airplane... probably around 1500-2000 feet which goes behind trees, then another cut/edit to people jogging.

Save it if you can... i am currently not in a position to screen record.

I'll cross-check it with the RADES altitudes of Venus 77 when i can.
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kawika
post Jul 25 2012, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Jul 23 2012, 07:07 PM) *
this low flyer:
http://imagesource.cnn.com/imagesource/Vie...rowseActionBean
(starting at 01:21:25)

was filmed from near here (Old Executive Building can be seen in the clip above):
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/sec-ports-dc/sec-ports-dc.htm


re: goss - i - DO know when it was filmed, 10:08am. i heard that boom live that day, it shook my house. im not saying i know what plane is flying over in the goss clip (my guess is its a fighter jet though i am NOT saying the jet caused the boom), but i can tell you for a fact that that distinctive boom happened at exactly 10:08am (according to the clock on my cablebox or vcr), because i made sure to mark it outloud with a friend who was present with me that day.


The screenshot I made is from a different source, note embedded timer. We cannot be sure of the timing or the location, though it suggests Lafayette Park because front and back of it is the Park area. I am not convinced though.

Re the 10:08 Boom, this couldn't be the V77 because it was long south of P-56 by that time. It has been suggested that it was caused by the fighters arriving. Can you help me with your location in relation to the SE Capitol camera vantage point?

My ear hears something more ground level, down towards the mall, the way people react.

The jet engine whine in the Goss interview suggests a low/slow big jet, not F-16, and it is heard after the Boom.

@Mark 14:40 Porter Goss, explosion, plane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfwsjF8X5U


Good discussion here. Keep momentum going.
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onesliceshort
post Jul 25 2012, 04:39 PM
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I made a video a few months back trying to piece together the movements around the skies of the White House. It's probably irrelevant now because I hadn't realized there were two alleged E4Bs but towards the end of the video there's a screen grab from MSM footage with the timeframe 09:42:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V106NvMdQY

I can't confirm or vouch for the timeframe. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Great work guys!

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Jul 25 2012, 04:40 PM
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rob balsamo
post Jul 25 2012, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Jul 25 2012, 05:29 PM) *
The jet engine whine in the Goss interview suggests a low/slow big jet, not F-16, and it is heard after the Boom.


I agree with you kawika. That is the sound of high bypass turbofans, multiple turbofans... low flying.. you can hear a bit of a growl in them... almost like a turboprop... it's a signature sound any pilot can recognize.... certainly not the ripping sound of an F-16 single turbofan (or two F-16's) with afterburn capability.
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paranoia
post Jul 25 2012, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (rob)
The video starts of a high flying aircraft near 7000-8000 at 1:21:35 clip...... then a edit/cut to a low flying airplane... probably around 1500-2000 feet which goes behind trees, then another cut/edit to people jogging.


rob, i got the (possibly erroneous) impression that both shots in that clip were of the same plane, but the second one was a zoomed-in shot of the same plane (which would probably be a natural reaction by a camera operator) moments later . also, i had til now, assumed that the zoomed-in plane in that cnn image archive clip is the same one caught above the capitol building in the john kerry clip, but was filmed from a different location.




QUOTE (k)
Can you help me with your location in relation to the SE Capitol camera vantage point?


i was in arlington less than a half a mile directly west of the sheraton, but the boom shook things and was heard as far west as alexandria (there is a thread around here dedicated to that second explosion or "boom", check it for more details - "military testimony of a second explosion" is the title).

QUOTE (k)
It has been suggested that it was caused by the fighters arriving... .


it has indeed, and many even think to today that the boom was a sonic boom caused by the fighter jet or jets. check the goss thread, ive detailed at least 3 if not 4 accounts of people who heard and or felt the boom, then saw a fighter jet in the sky very shortly or almost immediately after. to be clear, im not saying the fighter jets caused the boom, but i am saying they arrived at roughly the same time as this boom, and therefore there's a good chance that that is whats heard flying over in the goss clip.

QUOTE (k)
The jet engine whine in the Goss interview suggests a low/slow big jet, not F-16, and it is heard after the Boom.


thats the thing, the fighter jets were not flying very fast when they passed over this region. i recall seeing one that day - after the boom shook my house, me and my buddy rushed outside and found a stream of others also coming outside at the same time to see what was going on. sometime in the minutes after (tho it could have been seconds - im just not sure) we heard a plane and all looked up to seen an f16 going by in the east sky, flying roughly right to left (north to south) or vice versa. but it wasnt super sonic, it was probably going about the same speed as planes normally do upon takeoff from national. also note, ive seen the videos of the fighter jets over dc that day, and even there they are not flying supersonic.

but since i cant distinguish with any certainty the different sounds of planes, i defer to rob's expert ear on the matter, it may very well be something other than an f16 swooping over in the goss clip.
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rob balsamo
post Jul 25 2012, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Jul 25 2012, 06:40 PM) *
rob, i got the (possibly erroneous) impression that both shots in that clip were of the same plane, but the second one was a zoomed-in shot of the same plane (which would probably be a natural reaction by a camera operator) moments later .


I hear ya.. i felt the same when i first saw it.... but i took a second (and third and fourth... etc) look, thanks to kawika....

The cam operator zooms into the plane as it is flying at 7-8000 feet. Then there is a cut/edit.... then it seems to be a wider shot of an aircraft much lower... hence the fact the trees are in pretty good focus as the aircraft goes behind the foliage.

If the cam were zoomed in for such a close shot on an airplane at 7-8000, i would expect one or two (very out of focus) leaves to obscure the video as the aircraft passes behind the trees.

With that said... i am not a cam expert.... i learned how to fly airplanes....so.... we take it from there.

QUOTE
i cant distinguish with any certainty the different sounds of planes, i defer to rob's expert ear on the matter


Actually, you don't have to. Just find some takeoff or low flying videos of transport aircraft and listen closely... and do the same for F-16's without afterburn.

The sounds are very different. Fighters have a ripping sound (sharp sound), while high bypass turbofans on transport aircraft have a growl similar to turboprops (lower flat octave). It's really not that hard to distinguish the sounds. Even on youtube videos.
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paranoia
post Jul 25 2012, 06:01 PM
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gotta run, be back later tonight - but thanks for the insights rob/kawika/oss!
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onesliceshort
post Jul 25 2012, 06:13 PM
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Here are a few alleged testimonies from the fighter pilots

http://htmlimg3.scribdassets.com/e6v8m3grj...05e0b67/000.jpg

http://htmlimg1.scribdassets.com/e6v8m3grj...2602400/000.jpg

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/9449/f161hour.jpg

This one may be of interest on the alleged slower speeds which paranoia described

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9230/f16maxsonic.jpg
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kawika
post Jul 26 2012, 12:00 PM
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Compare sky colors.

High flier over Jackson Place




Low Flier (unknown location)




This doesn't look like the same sky color. You would expect light blue sky close to the horizon as we see well below the high flier.
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kawika
post Aug 11 2012, 02:34 PM
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Now it appears that there were two separate cameras capturing the same low flier.

Compare the CNN footage with this unknown source. I say different trees.








It is being said (by others) that these shots are long-range zooms of the V77 on its east heading, at about 10,000 feet altitude. If that were the case the leaves would be a blur.

They are saying that V77 is about 7 miles away. Does this make sense to you?

Note also the small gap between the left wing and the tail on the CNN version. Note also that the wing tip is seen behind the tail on the unknown version.

Compare side by side.

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elreb
post Aug 11 2012, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Aug 11 2012, 09:34 AM) *
Compare side by side.

"One is more nose down."
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amazed!
post Aug 12 2012, 09:29 AM
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My bet is that NEITHER of those aircraft are at 10,000, assuming the observer was more or less at sea level.
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kawika
post Oct 14 2012, 09:34 AM
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Found another shot with E4B and trees:



Pilots, is this 7-8,000 feet?

This post has been edited by kawika: Oct 14 2012, 09:36 AM
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amazed!
post Oct 15 2012, 09:15 AM
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IMO Kawika, that airplane is 2000' max.
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