Bomb At Government Headquarters/oslo, Norway Options

[dMz]

I'm not disagreeing... It's simply a question of looking at it from different angles.

There are way too many strange details emerging from this whole thing. Did you see Onesliceshort's post about the ammunition...?
(See Post #66)

It's a google-translation; but what you can make out is that there was an entry-wound, but no exit-wound; when they went looking for the bullets, they found that they were extremely fragmented.
During world war one, dum-dum bullets were sometimes created by filing the tip of a regular bullet; the reaction was usually that soldiers taken prisoner carrying something like that on them could expect some extremely rough treatment.

These things however would create a small entry-wound while leaving an enormous exit-wound.

I remember reading an article in a German magazine years ago which described the effect of small calibre military projectiles.
It said that they were developed simply as a cost-cutting exercise during the Vietnam war; the idea was to save money by creating bullets of a smaller calibre to cut down on the amount of materials used.

But they discovered that these projectiles had a tendency to overturn in flight which made them inaccurate.
So- they drilled a hole into the bullet from the reverse side, which resulted in the center of gravity moved towards the tip. These flew staright and were stable-- but they had a side-effect:
When they hit a surface, it was like an egg placed on its tip; the bullet would turn sideways and disintegrate-- with the fragments still travelling onwards.
The result was similar to a dum-dum-bullet; but these again leave a huge exit wound.
No one objected to the introduction of these; by definition they were not dum-dum bullets and were therefore not in contravention of international law-- even though the effect was exactly the same.

What those doctors are describing there is different altogether; it seems they practically explode inside the body.
If Breivik would have made these himself, I'd be left wondering where he has the high-speed camera hidden which he would need in order to get a proper idea of how this thing will behave...
Armies develope stuff like that by carrying out scientific studies-- and he does the same thing in his backyard...? Who are we trying to kid here...?

I'm about a month late on the reply here- but a point of clarification from my own research, and from my personal FULLY-LEGAL ammunition reloading and hunting/shooting experience in the Western US...

The "dum-dum bullet" thing was/is primarily a press-titute 'inspired' thing carrying over from mostly the Vietnam era and/via Hollyweird- bullet stabilization in the M-16 and CAR-15/XM-177 was a fairly 'slow'/DoD-influenced thing (with the 'game' being rigged against the "Mattel Mouse Rifle" and subsequently, the US DoD personnel stationed "in country" from the outset by 'old school' Army types involved in the Pentagon 'procurement process' as I understand it):

[No guarantees on the 'accuracy' of these articles (forgive the pun if you will (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) , but it mostly seems to comport with my personal experience and research ) : ]

Rifling twist rates and bullet accuracy
http://www.travel-golf.org/rifling_twist_r...et_accuracy.htm

Disclaimer: I am a student, not an expert, and these are my class notes. If you need an expert, consult any rifle forum, they all claim to be rifle experts.

My long distance rifle coach suggests that a .223 must be 1/7 twist, and a 308 must be 1/12 for maximum accuracy as a target rifle.

The Vietnam AR-15’s had a twist rate of 1/14

The M-16 has a 1/12 twist for a 55 grain bullet

How do you know what rifling twist is right.

A good rule of thumb is that the heavier and longer a bullet is, the faster the rifling twist rate needs to be to stabilize it in flight, therefore a lighter shorter bullet needs a slower rifling twist rate to give proper bullet spin for correct flight.

Exception to the rule.

If an insufficient twist rate is used, the bullet will begin to yaw and then tumble; this is usually seen as "keyholing", where bullets leave elongated holes in the target as they strike at an angle.

Once the bullet starts to yaw, any hope of accuracy is lost, as the bullet will begin to veer off in random directions.

A too-high rate of twist can also cause problems. The excessive twist can cause accelerated barrel wear, and in high velocity bullets an excessive twist can cause bullets to literally tear themselves apart under the centrifugal force.

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-...wist-rates.html

I've personally seen the effects of the above when a .30-cal "plinker" round repeatedly failed to contact the "paper" when fired from a .30-cal "magnum" elk rifle with my 'warm' handloads- it fired a molten lead "ring" of roughly 24-40 inches in diameter, depending upon target range...

Also- the aforementioned "keyholing" can lead to some particularly NASTY and often untreatable wounds, especially when a 'fleshy' target is struck [usually] above the waist, from my [second-hand] correspondence with various field Medics and Vietnam Veterans... (Perhaps this has something to do with the Russian Federation switching to the 5.45 x 39mm in their new AK-74 rifles).

http://world.guns.ru/assault/rus/ak-74-e.html

It could have been that the "old school" (1 twist-in-12 inch) .30-cal machinery was also cheaper to machine the old Vietnam era "A1" (flimsy) M-16 barrels on, and the Pentagon may have gone with the 'lowest bid' for those A1 M-16 "Mouse Gun" barrels [causing the "dum-dum" effect in the process].

This is probably a good guy to see about M-16 twist rates (& their history, if I remember his book(s) correctly):
http://duncanlong.com/science-fiction-fant...tories/ar15.htm

Mr. Long might even be a forum member here (and I seem to recall him writing about the Columbine thing in some detail IIRC).

EDIT: FWIW- those Germans seem to have cured Colts' M-16/AR-15/M-4/etc... family of most/all? its ills about 40-60 years later- see below for the so-far stellar H&K 416 & 0.308 (7,62x51mm NATO) 417:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/de/hk-416-e.html

http://world.guns.ru/asasault/de/hk-417-e.html

[starviego]

I am shocked--Shocked!--to discover that the Norwegian special police unit "Delta" had conducted an exercise almost exactly like the attack at Utoya island right before it happened for real:

www.aftenposten.no/
Only hours before Anders Behring Breivik began shooting children on Utøya, concluded the police emergency squad an exercise where they practiced an almost identical situation.
The four days in advance, and also the same Friday that the attack was carried out, trained police special unit(the Delta group) on an ongoing terror campaign that was approximately equal to the situation that hours later, met the 22 police officers in the emergency squad on Utøya.
The training shall thereafter Aftenposten know, have gone straight into the met police in Tyrifjorden the same day: a mobile terrorist attack in which one or more perpetrators only goal is to shoot as many people as possible and then shoot the police when they arrive. .... Chance would have it that way, says a key police source, who declined to quoted by name.

The exercise ended a half hour before the first bomb exploded in Oslo.  I'm sure it's all just coincidence.

[GroundPounder]

of course you are...cue claude rains in casablanca->

I am shocked--Shocked!--

vilkommen to the nwo

[amazed!]

...and the beat goes on....

As the propagandized american people go on about their lives....

[Devilsadvocate]

I can almost hear it: "...Is this still part of the exercise, or is this genuine...?"

And confusion reigns... Were the gents from the "Forsvarets Spesialkommando" practising the resue of Afghani kittens from trees around that time, by any chance...?

[onesliceshort]

I can almost hear it: "...Is this still part of the exercise, or is this genuine...?"

Yeah, and the same "thumb up arse" reaction.

[starviego]

I would like to know exactly what Breivik was doing in the four days prior to the attacks during the time of this 'drill.' Remember how the police called out his name prior to his arrest. Like they knew the guy. And the phone calls by Breivik before surrendering also seems to indicate Breivik had a familiarity with the very unit doing the drills:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...tenposten.no%2F
call to cops (delta refers to police commando unit)
Behring Breivik: Can you put me through to the operations manager for the Delta?... .... ....
... Behring Breivik: Can you, can you transfer me to the operations manager for the Delta?

[onesliceshort]

Unreal..

(IMG:http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2295/57126796.jpg)

THE families of the victims of mass killer Anders Behring Breivik have expressed their anger after the emergence of a chilling CCTV image of the killer minutes before he detonated a car bomb in Oslo.
Security cameras captured the Norwegian far-right extremist, who has admitted killing 77 people, as he planted the bomb outside the prime minister's office two months ago.
A still photograph from the images published online is authentic and came from surveillance cameras at government headquarters, Oslo police spokesman Roar Hansen said.


The image shows Breivik in police uniform and armed with a pistol.
Arne Seland, a lawyer representing survivors of the Utoya massacre, said: "What is the point of having surveillance cameras if you do not respond to a man in that type of clothing who has a gun in his hand?
"It is the latest in a long line of incomprehensible things the police have done."
Mr Seland added that he thought the police could have prevented the July 22 atrocity had they confronted Breivik at the time the CCTV image was captured.
"We know that as soon as Breivik saw police, he surrendered. If someone had stopped him there, it would definitely have saved lives," Seland added.
Source

[onesliceshort]

With all of the recent MSM coverage of late regarding Breivik, a timely reminder of what this thread uncovered and rejected but with more "meat on the bones", Peter Dale Scott's excellent write up.

http://japanfocus.org/-Peter_Dale-Scott/3590

I don't agree with some of the non-Breivik related material but it's well worth the read.

[KP50]

This is interesting from the UK 9/11 forum.

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic...p=160855#160855

That takes you to the page covering recent events. This is from Torstein Viddal who was in court :-

I happened to be present at the Oslo courthouse on Tuesday, April 17th, watching and listening to 22/7 terrorist Anders Behring Breivik's 75 minute main prepared defense speech. A speech that the press and media were banned from broadcasting to the general public. These are my thoughts after following the story for almost nine months.

The first thing that has to be said, is that watching Breivik defend himself for 5 hours this Tuesday removed each and every doubt that he is indeed «legally sane», in the sense that he is absolutely fit to be punished by the Norwegian judicial system for his criminal terrorist acts. All «experts» who say otherwise are flat out lying. This is a sane, rational, logically stringent man of great wit, who happens to also have some pretty effed up ideological views that have made him become a mass murderer and a terrorist.

It should also be said right from the start of this article that there is little doubt that he carried out both the bombing in Oslo and the shooting at Utøya. What remains to be seen is whether he had accomplices and what parts of the misdeeds these people took part in. There were also some pretty amazing instances of police SNAFU - 27 according to one commentator, but a lot more if you look more closely. There's a string of maybe 40 or 50 or 60 grave mistakes on behalf of the police, guards and government, making them unable to stop Breivik before the bombing of Oslo, stop him getting out of Oslo and to nearby Utøya, and to stop the shooting ASAP when Breivik amazingly managed to get himself transported over the sound to Utøya island, using the Labour Party's own ferry.

So many instances of SNAFU, in fact, that the mathematical probability of them all occuring on the same day or relating to the same person, should tell you all you need to know. And of course, in the weeks and months after the terror, documents, tapes and other evidence started disappearing. As by invisible hands.

OK. So, returning to the terrorist's defense speech on Tuesday, April 17th. Breivik started telling us how there'd been no real post-WW2 democracy in Norway, because «nationalists» like himself were not allowed free speech and democratic rights. This should tell us that he wanted there to be more democracy, and that Norwegian democracy should also include «ultra nationalists», a fair point that even I could agree on.

However, he messes it up by contradicting himself completely. He loves America, and especially a certain McCarthy, the postwar communist witchhunt general, and he regrets that McCarthyism didn't go far enough and never succeeded in sending alleged «commie» American citizens to Soviet Russia. So, really, when it comes to a more real and including democracy with less political censorship, our terrorist is only in favour of it when it applies to his chums, and to his «nationalist» parties.

Apart from this ideologically induced blindness or logical breakdown, he argues convincingly that censoring a movement like his own for too long, eventually will make members of that movement resort to other means, even violence.

His speech more generally was aimed at reaching out to a slightly broader audience than his Manifesto and his earlier writing on Norwegian websites, or to «unite national conservatism, which I support, with national socialism and militant cristendom», as he put it himself. So the strategy obviously is to appeal to a broader spectrum of racists, and to play down the Zionist issue, which devides Breivik, JDL, EDL, NDL and Knights Templar, on the one side, from other nationalists and nazis, on the other.

Breivik talks rather openly about the strategy of supporting and expanding «street extremism», like the JDL, EDL and NDL (Jewish, English and Norwegian Defense League, respectively), while at the same time building a network of single cell terror operatives, borrowing tactics from - yup - al-Qaida.

The reason for using terror cells consisting of only one man, says Breivik, is to avoid the eyes of anti-terror agencies. This way he only needed to meet with his comrades once or twice during a decade, if we choose to believe him, and I guess blogs, forums, RSS feeds, social media etc took care of the rest.

Breivik also tries to use the term «counter jihad» as much as possible, rather than «zionism», which is what he really supports, and he has succeeded in having sold this bogus «counter jihad» term to the Norwegian mainstream media. To quote from the terrorist's Manifesto:

«So let us fight together with Israel, with our Zionist brothers against all anti-Zionists, against all cultural Marxists/multiculturalists.»

So, then, this is what it came to in Norway: Where we could have had the press digging into and revealing the horrific lies of the 9/11 terror attacks ten years after the events, instead we got a snob from the West who bombed his own city using «al-Qaida tactics», and who shot fellow Norwegian kids taking part in a summer youth camp for young politicians and future administrators, because he believed the lies and racist conspiracy theories fed to him for ten years by every newspaper, radio and TV station in this nation and throughout the West. Malicious, racist lies about muslims behind every terrorist act from New York and Bali, through Madrid and London, to Mumbai and Stockholm.

The mythical snake - Midgardsormen - seems to be biting its own tail: False-flag terrorism over a long, sad decade goes unnoticed by the press, the journalists and the editors, and the inevitable end-product of these ten years of lies and cowardice and cover-up is our very own Nordic mass murderer and terrorist; Anders Behring Breivik.

Whether he had handlers or not we don't know, and the press and the police for some reason don't seem very eager to find out, he is now the shining example, or knight in shining armour, intended to inspire many, many followers in Scandinavia, Europe and America.

He will even be allowed internet access in jail, and thus to build, expand and strengthen his zionist terrorist networks, both on the streets and in the single-man sleeper cells.

Bølløcks.