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Debunkers Respond To Dennis Cimino, A Few Comments Copy & Pasted

mrmitosis
post Mar 16 2012, 06:50 PM
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Edit by Rob Balsamo - I would like to make it clear that Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not endorse the No Plane Theory nor the article mentioned in the OP.

I personally have not read the article in detail, nor do i intend to. People are free to make their own choices.

Please keep in mind the disclaimer in white text at the top of the forum when reviewing this thread and the article referenced.

Thank you.



Dennis Cimino posted an article on Veterans Today earlier this week discussing the Pentagon attack and the unresolved issues within the FDR data.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/13/91...k-is-a-fantasy/

Debunkers are already talking about it. I'd appreciate any responses to the comments below, to help me deal with a particularly loathsome GL on YouTube. (If not, I'm sure I can manage on my own...it'll just take a little bit longer whistle.gif...)

If he knows what hes talking about, why does he insist the FDR recorder shows the plane flying just over the West Wing of the White House on its way to the Penty, when even the twoofies pilots admit it shows no such thing?

Why does Dennis the ignorant fux insist the plane was heading 180, made a 330 degree right hand turn, then impact at heading 070. I mean HONESTLY, you fuxing moron, before pretending someone is an expert. Before pretending somone knows what he is talkin gabout, dont you think its a good ideaq to find out if the idiot can do SIMPLE FUXING 3RD GRADE ARITHMETIC FIRST?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

I mean Jesus tittfuxing christ! Even the little drooler picture Dennis drew of the AA77 flight path doesnt even show a 270 degreee turn. Instantly noticeable to anyone not a complete idiot (like Goebbels is) Yet Dennis the Moron keeps insisting a less than 270 degreee turn was an exact 330 degree turn? LMGDAOOOO

Dennis the Moron debunks herself frequently. At one moment (supposedly disproving a claim that data can sit in a buffer for several seconds before being recorded) that the FAR requires the data to be accurately recorded at least once a second. Then dismisses the Radar Altimiter data that disproves the "380 above the light poles" lie due to a magic carpet that was following the plane around, remaining underneath the Radalt ant. making it read falsely low--AND then claiming the Radal data is (contrary to previous claims) ofte ntimes "in lag" by several seconds. Dennis the Moron cant even keep his story straight. No wonder anyone with the smallest SHRED of aviation and avionics knowledge long ago dismissed his bullshit.


This post has been edited by rob balsamo: Mar 19 2012, 03:20 PM
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jfetzer
post Mar 21 2012, 01:05 AM
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In case anyone believes that Pilots determination that Flight 175 was over Pittsburgh, PA, at the time it was supposed to have been effortlessly entering the South Tower, was a turning point for me, I had reached that conclusion already in "New Proof of Video Fakery on 9/11", published in OpEdNews in 2008. What Pilots confirmed was simply another piece of the puzzle, not the proof some kind of video fakery had taken place in New York. Likewise, my earlier piece, "What didn't happen at the Pentagon", was published on rense.com and my blog back in 2010. Indeed, I have tracked down an earlier version that appeared on "The Daily Paul" back on 9 June 2009, http://www.dailypaul.com/95834/what-didn-t...at-the-pentagon, So this suggestion that I was "piggybacking" on Dennis is simply absurd. And the idea that I was trading on Pilots late discover that Flight 175 was over Pittsburgh was the basis for my arguments about no planes and video fakery is equally absurd. I have been publishing about these subjects for years, where some of the most important studies related to the question are included in the references below.

Morgan Reynolds had to beat up on me for at least 18 months before I could even take seriously the very idea that no Boeings had hit either of the Twin Towers until I realized that video fakery was compatible with real planes, since the videos might have been altered to conceal something about the planes or their interaction with the buildings. At that point, I began to interview a series of students of 9/11 who had done serious research on this subject. I actually interviewed at least fifteen (15) of them, including going through their web sited and multiple videos (over and over) before I became convinced that fakery had to have taken place by Joe Keith's argument that, not only is the entry into the South Tower in violation of Newton's laws, but that, by a frame-by-frame advance, he and others had established that the "plane" had passed through its complete length into the tower in the same number of frames that it had passes through its own length in air--and that this was the case for both the Hezaranhi and Evan Fairbanks's videos. After that, I realized that anyone who denied something was wrong did not know the evidence.

Why mrmitosis would suggest "Of course, Fetzer has made a transparent and opportunistic attempt to use the article to bolster support for his own opinions…inviting people to explain why “we are wrong” (…who’s “we”?), and linking to previous articles which were primarily concerned with NPT and video fakery", on the one hand, and also remark, "Incidentally, Jim manages to restrain himself from mentioning NPT, or anything else exotic, in his introduction – why not, if this is one of the article’s core arguments? Why does he choose to wait for a discussion like this to raise NPT?" is simply ignorant. I had ALREADY PUBLISHED several articles about NPT, including "9/11: Planes/No Planes and 'Video Fakery'" on 20 February 2012, as well as the separate article about "The 9/11 Passenger Paradox" (with Dean Harwell) on 15 March 2012. Dennis and I had discussed them both and I thought it would be valuable to have someone of his background and experience address the Pentagon. So we put it together.

ON WHAT HAPPENED AT THE PENTAGON:

"What Didn't Happen at the Pentagon"
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/01/wh...t-pentagon.html

"Pandora's Black Box, Chapter 2"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...66571196607580#

Flight Data Expert Confirmation: No Evidence Linking FDR Data to
American77 http://pilotsfor911truth.org/Dennis-Cimino-AA77-FDR.html

"Inside Job: Seven Questions about 9/11"
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/07/05/in...ions-about-911/

“9/11: The official account of the Pentagon attach is a fantasy” (with Dennis Cimino)
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/13/91...k-is-a-fantasy/

ON PLANES OR NO PLANES:

Elias Davidsson, "There is no evidence that Muslims committed the crime
of 9/11" http://www.opednews.com/articles/There-is-...100811-366.html

David Ray Griffin, "Phone Calls from the 9/11 Airliners"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=16924

Leslie Raphael, "Jules Naudet's 9/11 Film was Staged"
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/naudet/raphael.htm

"New Proof of Video Fakery on 9/11"
http://www.opednews.com/articles/New-Proof...080729-132.html

"9/11: Speeds Reported For World Trade Center Attack Aircraft Analyzed"
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtc_speed

"Inside Job: More Proof of 9/11 Duplicity"
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/07/11/in...-911-duplicity/

"9/11: An Open Letter to Anthony Lawson about 'Absurdities'"
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/03/91...ut-absurdities/

Killtown on Shanksville,
http://www.nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%2...02010%20Oct.mp3

Pilots for 9/11 Truth, “ACARS CONFIRMED – 9/11 Aircraft Airborne Long After Crash” (Flight 175),
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ACARS-CONFIRM...FTER-CRASH.html

Pilots for 9/11 Truth, “United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash – According to ATC/Radar”
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/united-93-still-airborne.html

“9/11: Planes/No Planes and ‘Video Fakery’”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/20/91...d-video-fakery/

“The 9/11 Passenger Paradox: What happened to Flight 93?” (with Dean Hartwell)
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/15/th...d-to-flight-93/

This post has been edited by jfetzer: Mar 21 2012, 01:09 AM
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mrmitosis
post Mar 21 2012, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 12:05 AM) *
Why mrmitosis would suggest "Of course, Fetzer has made a transparent and opportunistic attempt to use the article to bolster support for his own opinions…inviting people to explain why “we are wrong” (…who’s “we”?), and linking to previous articles which were primarily concerned with NPT and video fakery", on the one hand, and also remark, "Incidentally, Jim manages to restrain himself from mentioning NPT, or anything else exotic, in his introduction – why not, if this is one of the article’s core arguments? Why does he choose to wait for a discussion like this to raise NPT?" is simply ignorant.


I framed my questions exactly how I intended to ask them, Mr Fetzer.

I don’t need to be intimately familiar with your prior research to be curious as to whether or not Dennis agrees with your prior research. Of course, it is my suspicion at this point that he does not necessarily share your opinions regarding faked planes or video. As I explained, there is a vast chasm between (i) questioning the physical evidence relating to the planes and (ii) questioning the physical existence of the planes.

As for video fakery, this can hardly be treated as a pivotal issue, when there isn’t any video evidence of AA77 available to discuss or evaluate.

I stand correctable on any of the above, but until Dennis chooses to step forward with a definitive statement, I think I’m within my rights to raise questions about your involvement in Cimino’s article...before, during and after it appeared at Veterans Today. The way you’ve chosen to participate in the discussion - both pre- and post-publication - just seems to benefit your agenda a little too conveniently.
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jfetzer
post Mar 21 2012, 11:13 AM
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Another nice example of misunderstanding NPT. It has nothing to do with video fakery per se, which would be any use of videos to convey false or misleading impressions of the events of 9/11. It has to do with the plane. NPT holds that no Boeings crashed at any of the alleged sites--not in Shanksville, not at the Pentagon, not into the North Tower and, most surprisingly, not into the South Tower. So the absence of videos in Shaniksville and at the Pentagon--which exist, of course, but have not been released (except for three that show no more than that single frame originally labeled "plane"--but where video fakery was used in New York, where evidence shows that simulations of planes (four UAVs in the case of the North Tower, what appears to have been a sophisticated hologram in the case of the South) were taken by witnesses to be real planes, even though they were performing feats that no real planes could perform. I recommend you go back and reconsider my studies, which you have not understood.

QUOTE (mrmitosis @ Mar 21 2012, 01:01 AM) *
I framed my questions exactly how I intended to ask them, Mr Fetzer.

I don’t need to be intimately familiar with your prior research to be curious as to whether or not Dennis agrees with your prior research. Of course, it is my suspicion at this point that he does not necessarily share your opinions regarding faked planes or video. As I explained, there is a vast chasm between (i) questioning the physical evidence relating to the planes and (ii) questioning the physical existence of the planes.

As for video fakery, this can hardly be treated as a pivotal issue, when there isn’t any video evidence of AA77 available to discuss or evaluate.

I stand correctable on any of the above, but until Dennis chooses to step forward with a definitive statement, I think I’m within my rights to raise questions about your involvement in Cimino’s article...before, during and after it appeared at Veterans Today. The way you’ve chosen to participate in the discussion - both pre- and post-publication - just seems to benefit your agenda a little too conveniently.

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Posts in this topic
- mrmitosis   Debunkers Respond To Dennis Cimino   Mar 16 2012, 06:50 PM
- - rob balsamo   feel free to email Dennis... i havent seen the art...   Mar 16 2012, 06:52 PM
|- - mrmitosis   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 16 2012, 05:52 P...   Mar 17 2012, 01:19 AM
- - onesliceshort   What's the YT link MrM?   Mar 16 2012, 07:05 PM
|- - mrmitosis   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Mar 16 2012, 06:05...   Mar 16 2012, 08:52 PM
- - jfetzer   Well, there are three studies in this series as fo...   Mar 17 2012, 08:34 PM
- - mrmitosis   Thanks, Jim For the record, this is how I ende...   Mar 17 2012, 09:20 PM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE According to the official account, AA Flight...   Mar 17 2012, 10:53 PM
|- - mrmitosis   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Mar 17 2012, 09:53...   Mar 17 2012, 11:50 PM
||- - jfetzer   I do not believe that NPT is cited or discussed in...   Mar 21 2012, 10:43 AM
|- - jfetzer   Both articles discuss the impossibility of a Boein...   Mar 20 2012, 01:15 AM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 20 2012, 01:15 AM) ....   Mar 20 2012, 01:20 AM
|- - jfetzer   The wrong link was (what we used to call) "a ...   Mar 21 2012, 10:18 AM
- - amazed!   Jim Fetzer I wonder if it's possible you migh...   Mar 18 2012, 11:08 AM
|- - mrmitosis   QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 18 2012, 10:08 A...   Mar 19 2012, 01:15 AM
- - onesliceshort   From your link Jim. QUOTE Pilots for 9/11 Truth C...   Mar 18 2012, 01:34 PM
|- - jfetzer   Well, if no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon, that supp...   Mar 21 2012, 10:57 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 10:57 AM) W...   Mar 21 2012, 11:00 AM
|- - jfetzer   Well, maybe Pilots still thinks its possible, but ...   Mar 21 2012, 11:24 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 11:24 AM) W...   Mar 21 2012, 11:26 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (jimfetzer)And, of course, as Pilots has sho...   Mar 18 2012, 11:26 PM
- - amazed!   Mitosis Thanks for the link to the interview with...   Mar 19 2012, 02:41 PM
|- - Dennis Cimino   QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 19 2012, 07:41 PM) M...   Mar 20 2012, 02:25 AM
|- - Dennis Cimino   QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 19 2012, 07:41 PM) M...   Mar 20 2012, 02:28 AM
|- - jfetzer   While it was good of Rob to post this on behalf of...   Mar 21 2012, 01:19 AM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 01:19 AM) W...   Mar 21 2012, 04:19 AM
|||- - jfetzer   While I have replied to this elsewhere, Dennis sai...   Mar 21 2012, 10:30 AM
||- - jfetzer   Rob has send me a copy of what he received from De...   Mar 21 2012, 10:07 AM
|- - amazed!   QUOTE (Dennis Cimino @ Mar 20 2012, 02:28...   Mar 21 2012, 03:39 PM
|- - mrmitosis   QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 21 2012, 02:39 P...   Mar 23 2012, 05:14 AM
- - rob balsamo   I would like to make it clear that Pilots For 9/11...   Mar 19 2012, 03:10 PM
|- - jfetzer   Given the degree of respect I have for Rob and for...   Mar 20 2012, 01:31 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 20 2012, 01:31 AM) U...   Mar 20 2012, 01:35 AM
|- - jfetzer   This is bad, Rob. I cite your own work establishi...   Mar 20 2012, 01:43 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 20 2012, 01:43 AM) I...   Mar 20 2012, 01:51 AM
|- - jfetzer   And of course I have consistently drawn the distin...   Mar 20 2012, 10:15 AM
- - rob balsamo   Wow, i see we have a huge jump in hits viewing thi...   Mar 20 2012, 09:16 AM
- - rob balsamo   Jim, We already went over this via email when thi...   Mar 20 2012, 10:24 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 20 2012, 10:24 A...   Mar 20 2012, 11:38 AM
|- - jfetzer   Yes, Rob sent me this, which is a fine statement f...   Mar 21 2012, 01:14 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (jimfetzer)They are "different kettles ...   Mar 20 2012, 11:24 AM
|- - jfetzer   Why don't you actually read my studies and exp...   Mar 20 2012, 11:59 AM
- - onesliceshort   That you label the "mistaken" official f...   Mar 20 2012, 12:59 PM
- - GroundPounder   guys, guys, we are on the same side here, ok?   Mar 20 2012, 01:39 PM
- - SanderO   Question about a plane's wing hitting light po...   Mar 20 2012, 08:09 PM
|- - jfetzer   SanderO, you are joking, right? You don't kno...   Mar 21 2012, 01:25 AM
|- - Dennis Cimino   Let me tell you a little story about a P-3 that wa...   Mar 21 2012, 06:52 AM
- - jfetzer   In case anyone believes that Pilots determination ...   Mar 21 2012, 01:05 AM
|- - mrmitosis   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 12:05 AM) W...   Mar 21 2012, 02:01 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (mrmitosis @ Mar 21 2012, 02:01 AM)...   Mar 21 2012, 05:13 AM
||- - jfetzer   Since there are four parts to NPT--that no Boeing ...   Mar 21 2012, 10:46 AM
|- - jfetzer   Another nice example of misunderstanding NPT. It ...   Mar 21 2012, 11:13 AM
|- - woody   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 03:13 PM) A...   Mar 22 2012, 01:07 PM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (woody @ Mar 20 2012, 04:07 PM) I r...   Mar 23 2012, 02:39 AM
|- - woody   QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Mar 23 2012, 06:39...   Mar 23 2012, 08:13 AM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (woody @ Mar 21 2012, 11:13 AM) Cer...   Mar 23 2012, 11:17 AM
- - rob balsamo   Thank you for your apology Jim... accepted. As fo...   Mar 21 2012, 10:48 AM
|- - jfetzer   Well, thanks. But your post displays a misunderst...   Mar 21 2012, 11:06 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 11:06 AM) B...   Mar 21 2012, 11:11 AM
|- - jfetzer   No, Rob. I am talking about FAKE PLANES, not FAKE...   Mar 21 2012, 11:19 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 11:19 AM) N...   Mar 21 2012, 11:24 AM
|- - jfetzer   Rob, What you have explained is that you know som...   Mar 21 2012, 12:25 PM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 12:25 PM) R...   Mar 21 2012, 12:35 PM
||- - jfetzer   So it is the position of Rob Balsamo, the head of ...   Mar 21 2012, 12:41 PM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 12:41 PM) S...   Mar 21 2012, 12:50 PM
||- - jfetzer   This is embarrassing, but illuminating. You have ...   Mar 21 2012, 01:00 PM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 01:00 PM) T...   Mar 21 2012, 01:04 PM
||- - jfetzer   Rob, I am not going to try to persuade you of any...   Mar 21 2012, 02:15 PM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 02:15 PM) y...   Mar 21 2012, 02:29 PM
|- - jfetzer   The use of CAPS was for emphasis. Change the to b...   Mar 21 2012, 12:29 PM
|- - jfetzer   Yes, but your answers, which I shall quote here, s...   Mar 21 2012, 12:36 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 12:36 PM) Y...   Mar 21 2012, 12:42 PM
|- - jfetzer   Why can't you deal with my actual arguments, w...   Mar 21 2012, 12:46 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (jfetzer @ Mar 21 2012, 12:46 PM) W...   Mar 21 2012, 12:57 PM
|- - jfetzer   Here you confirm that you not only have not read m...   Mar 21 2012, 02:27 PM
- - rob balsamo   i had a bit of time to quickly scroll through the ...   Mar 21 2012, 04:54 PM
- - rob balsamo   Our stats graph over the past week. Thank you...   Mar 21 2012, 09:50 PM
- - Tamborine man   Just came across Shoestrings article on Bloggers. ...   Mar 23 2012, 04:41 AM
- - amazed!   Good post Mitosis. It seems obvious to me that th...   Mar 23 2012, 10:48 AM
- - Aldo Marquis CIT   Tambourine man, NPT=no planes theory. Not non-imp...   Mar 23 2012, 12:04 PM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (Aldo Marquis CIT @ Mar 21 2012, 03...   Mar 23 2012, 11:59 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Mar 23 2012, 11:59...   Mar 24 2012, 04:24 AM
- - onesliceshort   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZvugebaT6Q That...   Mar 23 2012, 01:14 PM
- - mrmitosis   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Mar 23 2012, 12:14...   Mar 23 2012, 04:38 PM
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