Debunkers Respond To Dennis Cimino, A Few Comments Copy & Pasted Options

[mrmitosis]

Edit by Rob Balsamo - I would like to make it clear that Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not endorse the No Plane Theory nor the article mentioned in the OP.

I personally have not read the article in detail, nor do i intend to. People are free to make their own choices.

Please keep in mind the disclaimer in white text at the top of the forum when reviewing this thread and the article referenced.

Thank you.


Dennis Cimino posted an article on Veterans Today earlier this week discussing the Pentagon attack and the unresolved issues within the FDR data.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/13/91...k-is-a-fantasy/

Debunkers are already talking about it. I'd appreciate any responses to the comments below, to help me deal with a particularly loathsome GL on YouTube. (If not, I'm sure I can manage on my own...it'll just take a little bit longer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) ...)

If he knows what hes talking about, why does he insist the FDR recorder shows the plane flying just over the West Wing of the White House on its way to the Penty, when even the twoofies pilots admit it shows no such thing?

Why does Dennis the ignorant fux insist the plane was heading 180, made a 330 degree right hand turn, then impact at heading 070. I mean HONESTLY, you fuxing moron, before pretending someone is an expert. Before pretending somone knows what he is talkin gabout, dont you think its a good ideaq to find out if the idiot can do SIMPLE FUXING 3RD GRADE ARITHMETIC FIRST?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

I mean Jesus tittfuxing christ! Even the little drooler picture Dennis drew of the AA77 flight path doesnt even show a 270 degreee turn. Instantly noticeable to anyone not a complete idiot (like Goebbels is) Yet Dennis the Moron keeps insisting a less than 270 degreee turn was an exact 330 degree turn? LMGDAOOOO

Dennis the Moron debunks herself frequently. At one moment (supposedly disproving a claim that data can sit in a buffer for several seconds before being recorded) that the FAR requires the data to be accurately recorded at least once a second. Then dismisses the Radar Altimiter data that disproves the "380 above the light poles" lie due to a magic carpet that was following the plane around, remaining underneath the Radalt ant. making it read falsely low--AND then claiming the Radal data is (contrary to previous claims) ofte ntimes "in lag" by several seconds. Dennis the Moron cant even keep his story straight. No wonder anyone with the smallest SHRED of aviation and avionics knowledge long ago dismissed his bullshit.

This post has been edited by rob balsamo: Mar 19 2012, 03:20 PM

[amazed!]

Mitosis

Thanks for the link to the interview with Cimino. He sounds very credible to me.

Fetzer advised me yesterday that his only contribution to the piece at hand was the intro. Cimino did the rest, and that's the way it looks too.

Fetzer is clearly in the 'no planes at WTC' group, though I think he would rather avoid trying to reconcile the testimony and photographic evidence from ordinary folks (as opposed to MSM) showing at least 1 Boeing at WTC.

[Dennis Cimino]

Mitosis

Thanks for the link to the interview with Cimino. He sounds very credible to me.

Fetzer advised me yesterday that his only contribution to the piece at hand was the intro. Cimino did the rest, and that's the way it looks too.

Fetzer is clearly in the 'no planes at WTC' group, though I think he would rather avoid trying to reconcile the testimony and photographic evidence from ordinary folks (as opposed to MSM) showing at least 1 Boeing at WTC.

I'm not a disinformation shill and I don't think Fetzer is either.

he's not a pilot. and in all honesty, non-aviation people really don't get it. aviation is a very very hard thing for most people to fully comprehend and fully
understand.

only a pilot with a lot of experience can fully grasp a lot of stuff we take for granted...and it's not too very often you'll find a layperson who
even remotely comes close to understanding either the FAR's or the reason why procedures are the way they are.

to some extent we're priveleged men, Rob. we have been there and done that which few could ever do.

when we have good eggs trying to get a clue we have to be more patient with them and not assume them all to be like the neocons who could care less about
aviation or what is going on with aerodynamics. they only understand death meting out and dealings.


Fetzer has accidentally shafted me strictly because I have given him license to do stuff I should have INSISTED THAT I DO, like vetting of every single picture that went into that article.

that I guess is my fault for not stipulating it. it took a long time for him to get Duff to accede to me publishing ANYTHING there at all.

in the comments, Duff goes way out on a line to defend that article. and I think that means a lot. VT could be a good foot in the door for some P4T stuff other than my work. In time, we should plug for international articles too, in high profile places where we had not gone before.


I'm going to bed but I hope that people realize that I am not the fucking enemy. nor is Fetzer. the affiliation is far from perfect but we are trying to get people globally to wake up. We are running out of time.

[amazed!]

I'm not a disinformation shill and I don't think Fetzer is either.

he's not a pilot. and in all honesty, non-aviation people really don't get it. aviation is a very very hard thing for most people to fully comprehend and fully
understand.

only a pilot with a lot of experience can fully grasp a lot of stuff we take for granted...and it's not too very often you'll find a layperson who
even remotely comes close to understanding either the FAR's or the reason why procedures are the way they are.

to some extent we're priveleged men, Rob. we have been there and done that which few could ever do.

when we have good eggs trying to get a clue we have to be more patient with them and not assume them all to be like the neocons who could care less about
aviation or what is going on with aerodynamics. they only understand death meting out and dealings.


Fetzer has accidentally shafted me strictly because I have given him license to do stuff I should have INSISTED THAT I DO, like vetting of every single picture that went into that article.

that I guess is my fault for not stipulating it. it took a long time for him to get Duff to accede to me publishing ANYTHING there at all.

in the comments, Duff goes way out on a line to defend that article. and I think that means a lot. VT could be a good foot in the door for some P4T stuff other than my work. In time, we should plug for international articles too, in high profile places where we had not gone before.


I'm going to bed but I hope that people realize that I am not the fucking enemy. nor is Fetzer. the affiliation is far from perfect but we are trying to get people globally to wake up. We are running out of time.

I absolutely agree!

The thing that is most distasteful about the whole cyberworld 911 Truth movement is that so many individuals a) insist upon attacking OTHER individuals with the same basic goal as themselves, or b) take themselves so damn seriously. Good grief, we're all human and positively WILL make mistakes.

That the picture of the supposed flight path at the Pentagon has been made into a mountain, and that now Rob & Jim are almost calling each other names is a comment on humankind more than anything.

We pilots must understand, and I think we all do, that NONpilots are not up on the lingo and cannot have a full appreciation of aerodynamics and such. We should keep that idea in the front of our communications with the public.

My opinion is that Dennis has hit a homerun with his article. That government apologists must pounce upon the relative inaccuracy of a frigging diagram that is fairly close shows how desperate they are and how weak their argument is.

We do not need to go down into the gutter with them. The OCT is a damn lie and even the apologists know that. Dennis' piece is simply more evidence of HOW AND WHY it is a lie.

[mrmitosis]

We pilots must understand, and I think we all do, that NONpilots are not up on the lingo and cannot have a full appreciation of aerodynamics and such. We should keep that idea in the front of our communications with the public.

Not many would dispute the fact that qualified and experienced professional pilots, aircraft maintenance engineers, FDR experts etc are better equipped to appreciate the subtle nuances (as well as the basics, I suppose) of aviation. But let's not forget about the role of the Student Forum Pilot; especially those who are prepared to actively defend not only the research, but also the REPUTATIONS of those who are courageous enough to publically question the OCT of 9/11.

It's simply amazing how much toxic waste gets posted on the internet, and despite my lack of specialised knowledge in any particular field, I still feel it incumbent upon me to respond when I see high quality work being tarnished by fuckheads who lack the intelligence and moral integrity to seek out and propagate the truth.

I'm not fishing for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/worthy.gif) or (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif) or (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) or (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shake.gif) , but the fact is that I spend a lot of my spare time smacking down shills and debunkers who have made it their mission in life to smear P4T and others with defamatory remarks and disinformation. I might not grasp many of the technical details, but I'm reasonably capable of expressing the small fraction that I DO understand. As far as I'm concerned, 9/11 Truth is primarily a PR exercise. Not many people are even aware of it, let alone convinced by it.

My apologies for drifting off-topic, but as a means of illustrating the above, I have some more examples of the types of "conversations" I've had this week with cretinous sub human filth who continue to rubbish Dennis Cimino...both in terms of the article as well as him personally. Incidentally, I won't have time this weekend to go into bat for Dennis. In other words, the italicised comments below will probably go unchallenged. Perhaps that doesn't worry anybody else, but it worries me.

(Again, these have been copy and pasted on rkowens4's YouTube channel. Comments appear in reverse order - ie, the most recent ones are at the top.)

EdgemanLL2 posted a comment
17 hours ago
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RetarDennis makes the claim that the plane was too high to hit the penty. based on 29.92 being the calibration setting for the altimeters ("there was no 18k adjustment, at any time"). Then claims later the adjustments to the altimeters were made. RetarDennis claims the turn was "skillfull and precise." Anyone actually veiwing the FDR recreation would (if they hadnt know what they were watching) assume the pilot was drunk. Very sloppy, and imprecise. jerky, inconsistant roll inputs, porpoising atlitudes.
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EdgemanLL2 posted a comment
17 hours ago
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RetarDennis claims the flight 77 crew as killed in their seats. False. Phone calls from 77 confirm the crew was at the back of the plane with the rest of the pax. RetarDennis claims simply "touching the yoke or rudder pedals" would disengage the autopilot. Also False. As anyone even minimally familiar with aviation knows, Eastern 401 resulted in A/P systems being reworked so that it takes a great deal of force applied to the controls to disengage the A/P. To prevent an accidental "bump" on a control turning off the system.
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EdgemanLL2 posted a comment
17 hours ago
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MoronDennis claims the hijackers would have had to immediately know precisely where they were "and I do mean IMMEDIATELY" order to navigate back. This is false. You dont need to know exactly where you are "AND I DO MEAN IMMEDIATELY" to use the A/P to make a 180 deg turn back towards the way you came. RetarDennis also claims the initial turn back toward DC put it on the exact, precise path to the Penty. also false. FDR data shows course corrections over mid-West Virginia. And again about 10 mins from impact, before the hijackers turned off the A/P
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EdgemanLL2 posted a comment
17 hours ago
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It VIOLATES FARs for a civilian airliners to carry military IFF. Moron tells us the DC airspace is impenetrable (Frank Eugene Corder is unavailable for comment) and the penty (supposed) defense systems are impenetrable. Then claims they have had drills in the past where a plane was crashed intentionally into the Penty. Again, it cant be both. They would never run drills contemplated a plane crashing into the buliding if it was impossible for a plane to crash into the building.
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EdgemanLL2 posted a comment
17 hours ago
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MoronDennis states the turn was "standard rates" (which it was) then refers to it as a 6-g turn. It cant be both. A starard rate turn NEVER results in 6-g's. MoronDennis claims a high speed turn, well beyond Vmo. Yet the Data shows the speed was never higher than 300 kias (well below Vmo) and usually much lower, through the turn. MoronDennis marvles at how "precise and coordinated" the turn was. Then later admits they never used the rudders. It cant be both. They couldnt have been using the rudders with such "extreme precision" if they never touched the rudder. Also, anyone viewing the FDR simulation KNOWS the flights were nothing near coordinated turns.
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EdgemanLL2 posted a comment
17 hours ago
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Weirdo---youre correct. The "essay" is a literal treasure-trove of bullshit.A person could start with any paragrpagh amd reel off countless erroros. BTS is Bureau of Trans STATISTICS. Not the Bureau of Transportation Flight Schedules. BTS records statistics on ACUAL flights.Pick any date. On any date there are literally trillions of flights that DONT exist. Yet the BTS doesnt have any line-entries for flights not exist. Moron Dennis claims they must have used "EXTRORDINARY" body control to not touch the rudder pedals. Yet, its no more diffuclt to not put your feet on the rudder pedals than it is to (while driving down the highway on cruise control) to not touch the braks or throttle when your driving.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
20 hours ago
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I can keep going.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
20 hours ago
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The BTS does not record hijacked aircraft. And their statistics show Flight 11 from earlier weeks SO IT WAS a regular scheduled flight. The autopilot did the turn. It wasn't disengaged until later. It's easy to use the basic controls. They did bring their own GPS systems, but they had no need to even know their position. The crash in Colombia was in IFR conditions. The cockpit door wasn't recorded. It didn't show open at any point during the flight or on the ground.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
20 hours ago
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Truly amazing, a Kook that hasn't heard of the fall of the Soviet Union. Any military threat would be detected hours before it would reach the US mainland. There's no need for air defense emplacements in Washington, because mobile systems can be placed in Washington before any conceivable threat would reach it. Not to mention that stationary emplacements would be tremendously easy to sabotage, unlike their mobile counterparts. Stinger type missiles don't even necessarily bring down an aircraft so why not fire one AND have high definition cameras pointed at the Pentagon's lawn.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
20 hours ago
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Kevlar wouldn't help you for shit if you were being shot with 30mm or Hellfires(which can penetrate any known armor) or an aircraft for that matter. / Where's the source for this amazing information about the DC airspace doctrine, and why did they Avengers (Humvee mounted anti air system) to Washington D.C. after 9/11 and a year later. Before 9/11 there was only a restriction on flying over the White House, Congress and Mall area.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
21 hours ago
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There is no evidence for a Point Defense System in Washington D.C. and no reason for there to be one. Aircraft had violated the DC airspace before and none were shot down, even when they wanted to shoot them and had time to do so. The fighter bases in the vicinity weren't part of the Aerospace Defense Command, they had no aircraft ready unlike the (COLD WAR REMNANTS) under NORAD command, whose doctrine was still governed by a Soviet invasion.. And a lot of good that Kevlar did although this is the first I've ever heard of it. Kevlar is only used in conjunction with ceramic armor to deflect low energy shrapnel and munitions.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
21 hours ago
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Pentagon's MASCAL exercise was held primarily because: A) The Pentagon is located at the end of a runway. B) Just a few years ago an aircraft crashed in to the Potomac. C) The accident scenario would be less depressing than an attack scenario even though the exercise would refine skills for responding to both. / Here we are with all these morons pretending they know something yet they haven't a clue of the most basic aspects of the official account. I'll just ignore the fact that they smell like people who decided what happened before they reviewed any of the evidence. If you know why the hijackers attacked the US you know why they chose the targets they chose.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
21 hours ago
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Researches who studied the aircraft impacts found that even putting the aircraft in a "sausage skin" for resulted in the same level of damage. That's because at those velocities it's no longer about the strength of the aircraft but the energy of the aircraft. You fucking morons pretend to be smart enough to figure out the inside job, but can't figure out A FUCKING FISH-EYE LENS. Did Silverstein give orders to the Fire Department or a demolition company? They had firemen in the building when he made the decision to pull them out. Even Alex Jones got this right - for five minutes. Fuck you.
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Weirdo10o4 posted a comment
21 hours ago
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The only flaw? It's got so many flaws in it that that whole article is a flaw. First paragraph it is: at comparable or higher speed a 757 is expected to behave exactly like the F-4 in the Sandia test, because it's built the same if not weaker than the F-4. It's not just 12 inches of concrete, it's 12 inches of REINFORCED CONCRETE meant to take the abuse of truck bombs. There is a clear mark left by the aircraft. I can source my claims, the article has no sources.