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Debunkers Respond To Dennis Cimino, A Few Comments Copy & Pasted

Tamborine man
post Apr 5 2012, 01:42 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Apr 2 2012, 01:50 PM) *
We aren't using the speeds as "proof" of anything. We are saying that the speeds reported do not support the govt story.

The govt story does not add up.

Unlike Shanksville and the Pentagon, there is ample amount of evidence which shows real planes caused the impact damage at the WTC. There is no evidence to prove that the aircraft observed to cause the damage were N334AA and N612UA. In fact, the evidence provided by govt sources contradict their own claims.

This is one of the many reasons why P4T is calling for a new independent investigation.

Again, people are free to explore any theory they want. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

This is why we as an organization do not offer theory. How could we when we don't have subpoena power to examine all the evidence, such as aircraft parts recovered, calling witnesses under oath.. etc.

This is why our Mission Statement has not changed since 2006.

As I have stated before, we have many varying opinions within our organization. John Lear for instance believes holograms were used and is one of our Core members in good standing. However, this cannot be proven until someone shows us the Hologram machine used, operates it, and even then, they would have to prove it was used on 9/11.

This is what a Jury will require. This is what society will require. This is why NPT has not gained any support in 6 years and has done nothing but divide the "movement" while providing ammo for those who want to paint anyone who questions the govt story on 9/11 as lunatics.

John remains a Core member as he is united with us under our Mission Statement and is more than qualified to discuss our work. However, he does not use our work to further his theories. As explained in this short interview.


If you feel evidence is fake, you cannot use it as evidence to prove your case. This is a classic logical fallacy. These are just some of the reasons evidence is tossed from a Court Of Law every day.

Imagine a Prosecutor attempting to prove his case using evidence which he felt was faked.

"Ladies and Gentleman of the Jury, yes that man was shot. Here is the gun, it is made of wax"

It's absurd.

Furthermore, if the WTC impacts were faked, why weren't videos fabricated for the Pentagon and Shanksville?

I am not sure what the ultimate goal of the NPTer's is, but the more I research it, and through discussion over the years, the more I feel it is a concerted disinformation campaign used as a red herring to bury good evidence, evidence which can and will be used in an a new investigation, if one were to be taken seriously.

Perhaps this is the goal of NPTer's? As others have stated in the past... perhaps the motivation for NPT is to make such ludicrous claims that any attempt to get the ball rolling on a new investigation will be stopped before it even gets started.

I agree, start with providing us the Hologram Machine, then reproducing the effects observed on 9/11, then prove it was used on 9/11.

Again, this is what a Jury will require.


Hi Rob,

obviously i totally agree with you in the main, and that's why i have been careful to put emphasis on the fact
that it's only my opinions i'm voicing.

There's one thing though i would like to make a comment on. You write: ".....and has done nothing but divide
the "movement" .....".
Don't really think that this so-called 'truth movement' exist any longer (if it ever did!), but has now become
more like an anachronism, or is virtually known by 'name' only, and not by any form of true 'substance'.

I rather see the whole thing as a huge "murder case", much like what we see in the movies. The top brass,
represented by the police chief, the commissioner, the DA, the prosecutor and governments, got their 'man',
safely behind lock and key.
Hammer, Spade, Poirot, Columbo, Ms. Marple, Holmes and the rest of them, smells a rat and embark on their
own individual investigations.

I think that's what we "in reality" are seeing here as well!
Various clues and various leads are pursued by single people or by groups of people worldwide. Walls everywhere
are (metaphorically speaking) plastered with photos, names, diagrams, calculations, time-frames and what not.
Some clues and leads followed come to dead ends. In other cases, new clues and leads are added to the existing
and the pursuit continues in same or in new directions that has been opening up.
There's no communications between the various investigative 'groups' or 'factions', so all follow their own paths,
and think that only their path is the right one and which eventually will lead to 'solving' the crime.

While this is taken place, the perps and their agents are of course doing everything they can to mislead and to
muddy the waters, sending many of the more gullible on wild "goose-chases", etc. etc.!

One could go into much more details, and write page after page, but hope that this little very simple 'overview'
of where my thinking is going, will perhaps spark more people to seriously consider the advantages it would be
to start communications with other branches partaking in this same investigation.
(Needless to say, that one would only be interested in becoming familiar with the best of the best of 'evidence'
and information the individuals or groups have come up with)!

Cannot see it any other way, if we should have any Hope of ever see this crime solved .......

Cheers

This post has been edited by Tamborine man: Apr 5 2012, 02:11 AM
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elreb
post Apr 5 2012, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 4 2012, 07:42 PM) *
While this is taken place, the perps and their agents are of course doing everything they can to mislead and to
muddy the waters, sending many of the more gullible on wild "goose-chases", etc. etc.!

History in general, is a “House of Mirrors”.

Everything is distorted to give the participants unusual and confusing reflections of themselves, some humorous and others frightening.

It is as if we were living on a “Hollywood” backlot and everything is a simulated reality…even the sounds and smells.

The matter/anti-matter injectors have jammed and we must remain in the holodeck and eat fake Broccoli!
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rob balsamo
post Apr 6 2012, 07:00 PM
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I have been informed that Dennis Cimino is now attacking our organization.

For the historical record, Dennis has felt that this thread was created to attack him, and asked to be removed from being affiliated with Pilots For 9/11 Truth. I respected his request and removed him from our roster.

I respect Dennis as an Electrical Engineer and FDR Expert, but his aeronautical knowledge is severely lacking.

Clearly he has not read through the thread, nor his own emails.

It appears Dennis has now gone full blown No Planer. He is firmly now in the "No Planer" Camp, despite his past emails.

Again, if anyone would like copies of the emails sent by Dennis, please email me and I will be happy to forward them to you.

The only reason I do not post his full emails here, is because Dennis can be rather "colorful" in his emails, and his emails are rather lengthy. (read: mostly gibberish rants littered with profanity)

Dennis has claimed he is willing to take legal action upon me for "slander", yet he has been "slandered" at JREF and ATS (among other forums) over the past few years and has not so much as even confronted those in which dispute his claims. Dennis cannot even post comments to his own articles. Fetzer is his new messenger boy.

For those who read any messages from Dennis Cimino over the past few weeks or so (via Fetzer as a messenger boy)... please spend the time reading through this thread, keeping in mind the white text on the top of the every page of this forum. Apparently Dennis feels that every poster on this forum is a Core member and affiliated with P4T....

But again, feel free to email me for full, unedited emails, from Dennis.

As to you Dennis...... those who sit sideways as an SO require an FE Certificate. (Dennis now claims he flew the FE panel for Eastern Airlines... funny he never mentioned that to me.. nor does he have an FE certificate in the FAA Airman database)

Again, I respect Dennis as an EE and FDR Expert as I have cross checked his work with others, but he isn't much of a pilot.

Come sue me Dennis. smile.gif
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mrmitosis
post Apr 7 2012, 02:51 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Apr 6 2012, 06:00 PM) *
...Dennis has felt that this thread was created to attack him...


Most unfortunate.

For Christ’s sake, does the title of this thread not speak for itself?

"Debunkers Respond To Dennis Cimino, A Few Comments Copy & Pasted"

I can’t think of a title which more clearly expresses the impetus driving this topic. Comments - taken from somewhere else and written by somebody else - reposted on this forum with the intention of discussing them through the prism of 9/11 Truth. I’m not a debunker and I’m not the author of those comments. Did Fetzer and Dennis mistake me for The Jimmy out of Seinfeld, with that persistent and confusing habit of referring to himself in the third person?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJdd4928qJ0

Or am I speaking in some obscure and cryptic version of the English dialect?

I assumed – wrongly, it seems - that Dennis would appreciate total strangers putting their own time and energy into deflecting public criticism of his article. At least I know not to waste any more effort on it.
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amazed!
post Apr 7 2012, 03:27 PM
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Most unfortunate indeed!

I thought Dennis' analysis to be outstanding!

Ego and personality are always such a problem amongst humans.
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woody
post Apr 7 2012, 03:33 PM
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I can't say I'm surprised.

This is why I called Dennis "erratic" in this thread - at that time I referred to his announcement of retiring in January and the subsequent sudden publishing of two large and factually excellent articles, the Fetzer article and another one on Sergio's website 911acars.blogspot.com (which is highly recommended).

I don't see any rationality in this behavior, yet I know Dennis is a very rational and intelligent person.

Strange.



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Tamborine man
post Apr 8 2012, 03:49 AM
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QUOTE (woody @ Apr 5 2012, 06:33 PM) *
I can't say I'm surprised.

This is why I called Dennis "erratic" in this thread - at that time I referred to his announcement of retiring in January and the subsequent sudden publishing of two large and factually excellent articles, the Fetzer article and another one on Sergio's website 911acars.blogspot.com (which is highly recommended).

I don't see any rationality in this behavior, yet I know Dennis is a very rational and intelligent person.

Strange.



There's nothing "strange" about any of this.

If one feels in disagreement with anything another person says, one quote the passage in question
totally and completely within the context it was written. Then, if deserving, one gives the opposing
view with the logic, reason, rationality and other 'paraphernalia' one think the topic 'deserves' to be
clarified by or with.

If one feels in agreement with something another person has expressed, and one feels a compulsion
to support the logic and reasons given, one again quotes either a passage in question or accept the
whole and give credence where credence is due.

Life is so uncomplicated and simple that way.

Ego's, personality clashes, discords, disunity, disdain and the like, should have no place and no room
to manœuvre in a "Truth forum" like this, as "Truth" exclusively got its source from 'Goodness' and
the 'Light', in all its various absolutely sensible and highly intelligent manifestations.

If we should all just keep this in mind at all times, then no "evil" in any form would ever be able to
exert any influence at all on and in this Forum, as we so easily would be able to detect its ominous
vapours immediately.

And no. This has nothing to do with "idealism".

This is all simply so just bloody fucking 'common sense', that for all Truly True "Truthseekers" should
in reality be so easy to understand and utterly appreciated and applauded!

Who in his Right mind would ever forever 'love' to live in disharmony and confusion??

We all change our minds as we grow up and mature. Some for the worse and some for the better.
I'm lucky. I can still feel shame for some of the things i thought of as a 25 year old!

Render to Caesar what is Ceasar's, and .......

Cheers
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amazed!
post Apr 8 2012, 09:53 AM
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Good post TM!
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rob balsamo
post Apr 8 2012, 04:20 PM
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I agree TM.

I can't count how many times that Dennis asked me to remove him from the P4T roster because his ego was hurt from one or two posts on this forum, neither of which were affiliated with P4T.

I explained to Dennis many times to read the white text at the top of the forum, but apparently he flip-flops worse than a wet fish on hot pavement.

Again, I respect him as an EE and FDR Expert, but it appears he is at that point in his life in which he hears only what he wants to hear, feels that everyone on this forum are "friends" and therefore no one should question his work, and wants others to be his messenger boy. He doesn't understand that anyone can register to this forum, and as long as they follow forum rules, they are welcome to post.

In short, this thread was not created by mrmitosis to attack Dennis, rather defend him. Sure there are a few here who question Dennis, and of course Fetzer came in strong attempting to affiliate Dennis and P4T with NPT.... but such claims are not affiliated with P4T in any way which is what I wanted to make clear and have made clear to Fetzer over the past several years. Anyone who reads through this thread will understand that.

This is the reality of the situation.

Fetzer has been on a campaign over the past few weeks/months to promote his upcoming Conference in Vancouver. He has been literally begging people to come and speak for him. Many respected Core Members of P4T have turned him down, including myself, along with members of other organizations, Fetzer then followed up with several articles on VT, sourcing our work to support his No Plane Theories.

Each time i saw his articles posted (Facebook... emails.. etc), I made a point to write a reply that P4T as an organization do not endorse NPT.

This clearly frustrated Fetzer even worse.

And here you have this thread and the reason Fetzer came, insulted anyone who disagreed with him, and I had no choice but to show him the door.

The NPT factions imploded more than 2 years ago. Fetzer seems to be attempting to revive it. I am glad he came here as now everyone will know where P4T as an organization stands on the NPT theory.

It's just a shame that Dennis' credibility will now be dragged through the mud of the NPT black hole, mainly due to his ego and inability to understand the nature of this thread and the white text on the top of every page of this forum.
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bpete1969
post Apr 9 2012, 05:55 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Apr 6 2012, 07:00 PM) *
I have been informed that Dennis Cimino is now attacking our organization.

For the historical record, Dennis has felt that this thread was created to attack him, and asked to be removed from being affiliated with Pilots For 9/11 Truth. I respected his request and removed him from our roster.

I respect Dennis as an Electrical Engineer and FDR Expert, but his aeronautical knowledge is severely lacking.

Clearly he has not read through the thread, nor his own emails.

It appears Dennis has now gone full blown No Planer. He is firmly now in the "No Planer" Camp, despite his past emails.

Again, if anyone would like copies of the emails sent by Dennis, please email me and I will be happy to forward them to you.

The only reason I do not post his full emails here, is because Dennis can be rather "colorful" in his emails, and his emails are rather lengthy. (read: mostly gibberish rants littered with profanity)

Dennis has claimed he is willing to take legal action upon me for "slander", yet he has been "slandered" at the govt loyalist site and ATS (among other forums) over the past few years and has not so much as even confronted those in which dispute his claims. Dennis cannot even post comments to his own articles. Fetzer is his new messenger boy.

For those who read any messages from Dennis Cimino over the past few weeks or so (via Fetzer as a messenger boy)... please spend the time reading through this thread, keeping in mind the white text on the top of the every page of this forum. Apparently Dennis feels that every poster on this forum is a Core member and affiliated with P4T....

But again, feel free to email me for full, unedited emails, from Dennis.

As to you Dennis...... those who sit sideways as an SO require an FE Certificate. (Dennis now claims he flew the FE panel for Eastern Airlines... funny he never mentioned that to me.. nor does he have an FE certificate in the FAA Airman database)

Again, I respect Dennis as an EE and FDR Expert as I have cross checked his work with others, but he isn't much of a pilot.

Come sue me Dennis. smile.gif


I would like to say hello to the group. I am new here and came out of curiosity because of the constant references Jim Fetzer uses on your work.
I have had several exchanges with Uncle Fetzer at Veterans Today so I empathize with the frustration caused by his visits here.
The main reason I came was in hopes of confronting Fetzer and Dennis because of their attacking another person that left a comment on their latest story. Dennis accused that person of being me, hiding behind a different user name. I lost my posting privileges there back in March due to confronting the GM, John Allen after he not only edited some of my posts but completely rewrote them without stating that the words were his and not mine. I ran a story on my blog about it. A blog that came about because of the "fetzering" on the VT site and the Education Forum.
Uncle Fetzer has been riding the coattails of many in the movement, by mingling his words and theories with those of others and then utilizes his unique requirements to face down a challenge.
If you'll notice, Fetzer not only demands that you repeat his claim but also demands that you state why he makes the claim, something that is impossible to do with a narcissistic sociopath. He has used his "special technique" here, at VT, The Education Forum and his own various sites.
I cover some of his antics at my blog and welcome anyone here to visit. Just google Fetzering Against Rational Thought....ironic his last post at VT was titled "Reason and Rationality...something Fetzer sorely lacks.

later.....

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mrmitosis
post Apr 9 2012, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (bpete1969 @ Apr 9 2012, 04:55 AM) *
...If you'll notice, Fetzer not only demands that you repeat his claim but also demands that you state why he makes the claim...


I DID notice that! At first I dismissed it as a typo, because it makes no sense to impose that type of requirement in a debate. Who the fuck knows, cares, or is even capable of accounting for the conclusions that someone else comes to? Isn't it up to HIM to explain the steps in his own reasoning? Bizarre.
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bpete1969
post Apr 9 2012, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (mrmitosis @ Apr 9 2012, 05:07 PM) *
I DID notice that! At first I dismissed it as a typo, because it makes no sense to impose that type of requirement in a debate. Who the fuck knows, cares, or is even capable of accounting for the conclusions that someone else comes to? Isn't it up to HIM to explain the steps in his own reasoning? Bizarre.


If you knew Fetzer you wouldn't think it bizarre. It's his M.O. Look back at how many times he referred to his 35 years of teaching "critical thinking", blah blah blah. Fetzer operates under the premise of there is no one out their capable of refuting him simply because of who he is. He considers himself to be the ultimate authority on what is or isn't legitimate thought or reasoning. His entire career can be seen in this thread. He makes a statement and if you don't agree with his position he then he tells you that you haven't given enough thought or time to his position. Then if you still disagree he will use an apples and pliers comparison (I say apples and pliers because he leaps completely out of the realm of fruit as in apples and oranges). Then if you still disagree with him he questions your mental capacity, or your motive or both in the same breath. He has done it with others in the movement ie: Steven Jones, Wood, Ryan, Gage, Rob (above) and eventually it will happen with Dennis Cimino ( whoever he is). Fetzer gets where he is by the hard work of others and when that work comes into serious question he'll quickly disassociate himself and trash them as being an op or " dishonest broker".
I would suggest googling Fetzer-Josiah Thompson and you'll see that Fetzer's actions here, started way back before 9-11 in the JFK movement. he's a real piece of work.
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rob balsamo
post Apr 9 2012, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE (bpete1969 @ Apr 9 2012, 09:41 PM) *
He has done it with others in the movement ie: Steven Jones, Wood, Ryan, Gage, Rob (above) and eventually it will happen with Dennis Cimino ( whoever he is).


Over the years I have seen Fetzer attack many others he once called his allies, more than producing any work of his own to attack the govt story.

If it quacks like a duck....


QUOTE
Fetzer gets where he is by the hard work of others...



And this is my main problem with Fetzer. I can't count how many times I have told him over the years that he is welcome to disseminate our work, but be sure to draw a distinction if you use your own conclusions... it all started when Fetzer wrote a very misleading article using our work, and I then forced him to post corrections (see bottom of article), and of course we posted them to our site as well.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/article_corrections.html


Fetzer has known for years that Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not endorse NPT, nor does "impossible speed" validate NPT.

John Lear gets it.... Fetzer and Cimino do not.




And this is why John Lear has been a Core Member in good standing long before Dennis Cimino, and continues to be a Core member to this day. John Lear doesn't use our banner to further his conclusions, unlike Fetzer (and now Cimino). In fact, John has told me many times that if he becomes a liability to our organization due to his theories, to remove him from our Roster. Unlike Fetzer and Cimino, Lear has class. I have gone to bat many times for Lear, Cimino and even Fetzer.... the only one who has truly earned my respect is John Lear, as he respects our position.

It's funny though, Fetzer and Cimino now call me incompetent out of one side of their mouth, while saying my work is excellent out of the other side. You can't make this stuff up..lol

Apparently now Dennis thinks I am calling him a "jew hater".... lol. Well, no.. we're not calling him that, nor have I ever called him that.

For those wondering, when we were working on the ACARS analysis, Dennis kept falling into "Israel did it!" arguments via email. I asked him several times if he could focus on ACARS as that is where we need his help. He continued his Israel rants. I don't have a problem with anyone who feels Israel was involved with 9/11, it is discussed on this forum all the time. However, I do have a problem with people who cannot focus. Dennis got angry, went ballistic, asked to be removed from P4T (for perhaps the second time). I let it slide as I normally did in the past when Dennis comes off the rails, he apologized, we went on our way.

Fast forward to NPT arguments and this thread. Dennis once again came off the rails, asked to be removed from P4T, I had enough... now he's gone.

Dennis reminds me of an old timer sinking into dementia. They are really sharp discussing work in their areas of expertise, if you can get them to focus. If you ask them to focus, they think they are being attacked, become disturbingly belligerent, and come off the rails, only later to apologize. I wish him well, I just no longer have patience to deal with such belligerence.

And again, if anyone would like the full email exchanges of this topic (and now since Dennis brought it up, the past topic of ACARS and discussion of Israel), please email me and I will be happy to forward them to you.

As for Dennis and his empty threats of getting me charged with a Felony for forwarding words he wrote, I live in a one party consent state, I record the FBI and NTSB... and post it online... Dennis, you think someone like you is going to worry me? Save your chest thumping for those who might give a damn...lol

Dennis, when will you confront the FBI or NTSB?

Dennis doesn't want his emails forwarded because then everyone will see exactly how he acts. This is mainly the reason he needs a messenger boy to post for him. He needs someone to clean up his language.

Now Dennis, if you really want to sue someone for libel/slander, why not start with the JREF? They been attacking you for years.

Oh, that's right, you don't even have the nads to make your own posts. You need a messenger boy. Good luck with that.

Welcome to the forum bpete....
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rob balsamo
post Apr 16 2012, 09:42 PM
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Given the conversation throughout this thread, I find the following latest developments ..... for lack of a better term... enlightening....




If anyone has a link to the specific technology involved exclusively for the above video, please post it.
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paranoia
post Apr 16 2012, 11:27 PM
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http://www.hotnewhiphop.com/creator-of-tup...-news.1795.html

QUOTE
The audience at Coachella, and even those viewing from home, were amazed at Tupac taking the stage during Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre's performance. Now the creator behind it talks on the technology.

The creator of the much-talked about Tupac appearence at Coachella 2012 spoke out about the new hologram technology to MTV News.

Nick Smith is the president of AV Concepts, the company that created the technology. He talks about working with Dr. Dre to bring Tupac back, how much it would cost to make one and more.

Read what he had to say below.

"We worked with Dr. Dre on this and it was Dre’s vision to bring this back to life. It was his idea from the very beginning and we worked with him and his camp to utilize the technology to make it come to life.”

Smith said he wasn’t allowed to talk about the creative aspects of the production including how the hologram was able to seemingly perform the set in synch with Snoop and whether all the vocals were ‘Pac’s — but he did say that his company has the ability to recreate long-dead figures and visually recreate them in the studio. "You can take their likenesses and voice and … take people that haven’t done concerts before or perform music they haven’t sung and digitally recreate it," he said.

The hologram was the latest visual magic pulled off by AV, which is also behind the 2005 Grammys performance featuring Madonna and the holographic members of the Gorillaz, as well as holograms used in concert by Celine Dion and the Black Eyed Peas.

The Tupac hologram was several months in the planning and took nearly four months to create in a studio and though Smith was not able to reveal the exact price tag for the illusion, he said a comparable one could cost anywhere from $100,000 to more than $400,000 to pull off. "I can’t say how much that event cost, but I can say it’s affordable in the sense that if we had to bring entertainers around world and create concerts across the country, we could put [artists] in every venue in the country" he said.



about the technology, though not specifically about the tupac projection:
http://www.projectionfreak.com/av-concepts...ojection-record

QUOTE
LAS VEGAS (May 12, 2011) AV Concepts is helping high profile Corporate VIP's get an eyeful by installing the largest 3D holographic projection in history. On a surface spanning nearly 2,000 square feet, guests were taken into the 3D holographic experience, while VIP's interacted with 3D holographic presentations in a live event. No 3D glasses were necessary.

In preparation for this record breaking installation, AV Concepts constructed a test rig inside the San Diego Convention Center. Joe Russo, Director of Technology, explained,” The unique nature of this particular rig structure required several engineering revisions to support the incredible 100 foot wide stage. Working with truss and rigging design engineers, the proper system was developed to accommodate the massive frame needed to support the holographic screen. AV Concepts was selected by one of the World’s largest and most prestigious production companies as both a technical and creative partner for this highly complex event. To create one of the most exciting pre-scripted moments, AV Concepts produced an on-site high-definition video shoot with VIP executives who were filmed and converted into holograms for a live, on-stage interaction with the CEO during his presentation.

President of AV Concepts, Nick Smith stated, “This record breaking installation, speaks volumes to what AV Concepts delivers every day, and that’s to be the leader in implementing the most innovative technology, while also providing our clients with the best quality of service. Our ability to provide cutting edge technology and solutions help our clients better connect with their respective audience, creating memorable experiences. ”

For a flawless visual presentation, AV Concept’s used 14 Christie HD18 projectors, controlled by 4 Christie Vista Spyder systems. Additionally, AV Concepts new 4-camera high definition camera package was used with two additional robotic cameras for specialty pick up shots.

One of the world’s most advanced technology demonstration theaters is located within AV Concepts’ San Diego Office to support Musion 3D holographic consultation, development, and live demonstrations, in addition to virtual 3D Scenery and projection mapping applications. I can’t wait to see more great stuff coming from this company!

I wondered about what it was they used to accomplish the 3d part and here you have it:

Musion Eyeliner is a unique high-definition video holographic projection system allowing spectacular freeform 3D hologram effects to be projected within a live stage setting using Peppers Ghost illusion. Eyeliner produces high resolution images that make them unmistakably real, which is what happened when Gorillaz & Madonna performed the opening number at the European MTV Awards. Musion Eyeliner is a specially developed foil that reflects images from a high-definition video projector, making it possible to show virtual images of variable sizes and distinct clarity.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musion_Eyeliner
QUOTE
The system works as a modern commercial variation of a stage illusion called Pepper's ghost. Thin metalized film is placed across the front of the stage at angle of 45 degrees towards the audience; recessed below the screen is a bright image supplied by an LED screen or powerful projector. When viewed from the audience's perspective, the reflected images appear to be on the stage. The system was created by Uwe Maass.[1]

Because the system uses a thin film as its reflective surface, the screen is relatively low-cost and light-weight, and can cover a large area without seams (thus helping maintain the illusion); however, this lightness can make the screen vibrate due to atmospheric effects such as wind, when outdoors; or powerful sound systems, when indoors.

The system's effect is described as to "create the illusion of life-size, full colour, 3D moving images".[1] It consists of a flat (two-dimensional) image that produces the illusion of being three-dimensional and suspended in free space.[1] It does not, for instance, recreate stereoscopy as most 3D displays do, nor is it a true hologram.



AV Concepts & Musion Eyeliner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkarjAr4hsM

for more, check their website:
http://www.avconcepts.com/services/


see also:
http://www.eyeliner3d.com/
http://www.musion.co.uk/about_musion_eyeliner.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper%27s_ghost


also, the equipment used for the projection:
http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/busin...es/default.aspx
http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/busin...es/default.aspx

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rob balsamo
post Apr 16 2012, 11:41 PM
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Thank you p....

So... from my preliminary skimming of the above, it takes an actual screen (or multiple screens) to create such effects.

In other words, if holograms were employed on 9/11 in Broad Daylight, people would see some type of screens stretched down the Hudson to altitudes which exceed 2000 feet.

I suppose it is possible, but imagine the material that would have to be used to fool the largest populated city in the world.

What is even more hysterical, are those who claim the videos are fake, yet use the videos as authentic for impact analysis.

Yeah.. .the more I look into this NPT crap, the more I realize it may be a product of Cass Sunstein's minions.
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mrmitosis
post Apr 17 2012, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Apr 16 2012, 10:27 PM) *
"The audience at Coachella, and even those viewing from home, were amazed at Tupac taking the stage during Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre's performance."


Personally, I still don't subscribe to NTT (No Tupac Theory).
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woody
post Apr 17 2012, 11:55 AM
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Dennis Cimino now has accused me of libelling him, slandering him, committing character assassination, calling him "instable" and insinuating "mental incapacity", blackmailing etc. etc.

To set the record straight, here are my posts in this thread concerning Dennis Cimino:

QUOTE
I'm a litte bit surprised. Didn't Dennis cancel his appearance on Kevin Barrett's show in January and announced his "retiring from activism" because he is "frustrated" with those in the truth movement who are protecting the "Zionist perps"?

I'm not sure if this erratic behavior is helpful for the movement, and I can't understand how such an intelligent guy like Dennis seriously refers to the "research" of no-planer Gerard Holmgren, let alone the "the Mossad did it" theme. I'm completely with Webster Tarpley here - 9/11 was synthetic terror made in USA, and Israel played an observing role at most.


QUOTE
The screenshot of the BTS database with the missing Fl77 data is a pretty subtle way to mention NPT. And this is no accident, but I don't like to cite from private emails.

Frankly, I'm deeply disappointed with Dennis. A serious researcher should stay away from Fetzer.
You have a new exotic theory concerning the WTC demolition? Go to Fetzer.
You have new evidence for video fakery? Go to Fetzer.
You have evidence that the Zionist perps did it? Go to Fetzer. You're welcome.


QUOTE
I can't say I'm surprised.

This is why I called Dennis "erratic" in this thread - at that time I referred to his announcement of retiring in January and the subsequent sudden publishing of two large and factually excellent articles, the Fetzer article and another one on Sergio's website 911acars.blogspot.com (which is highly recommended).

I don't see any rationality in this behavior, yet I know Dennis is a very rational and intelligent person.

Strange.


Libelling? Slandering? I think you can see that I try to be nice with him and stressed the positive aspects of his pronouncements, albeit being pretty critical. But where did I insinuate "mental incapacity"?

The most critical word is "erratic". "Character assassination"? In fact, to behave "erratic", in the sense of unpredictable, can be important in certain situations, as for chess players or poker players. And honestly, sometimes Dennis Cimino seems to play games here. However, for an expert or researcher fighting against the official story, I don't view an erratic behavior as helpful.

Dennis Cimino should do the Truth movement a big favor and do what he told to Kevin Barrett: retire from activism.







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Tamborine man
post Apr 17 2012, 12:02 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Apr 15 2012, 02:41 AM) *
So... from my preliminary skimming of the above, it takes an actual screen (or multiple screens) to create such effects.

In other words, if holograms were employed on 9/11 in Broad Daylight, people would see some type of screens stretched down the Hudson to altitudes which exceed 2000 feet.

I suppose it is possible, but imagine the material that would have to be used to fool the largest populated city in the world.



Hi Rob,

just to be clear about this from my personal viewpoint. I don't think that any sane person would ever entertain the idea

that 'screens' were used in relation to 'projected' planes at WTC on 9/11.

I rather suspect that more sophisticated technology would have been utilized then; sort of more in line with what DARPA

was playing around with in those days - and of course, before that time as well:


".....
These programs will also explore a combination of microelectromechanical systems (MEMS) based electro-optic spatial light modulators
in combination with very short pulse solid state lasers to provide powerful new capabilities for secure communication up-links
(multi-gigabits per second), aberration free 3-dimensional imaging and targeting at very long ranges (> 1000 kilometers).

....."

QUOTE
What is even more hysterical, are those who claim the videos are fake, yet use the videos as authentic for impact analysis.

Yeah.. .the more I look into this NPT crap, the more I realize it may be a product of Cass Sunstein's minions.



Truly hope you're leaving me completely out of those two "alarming possibilities" .......please!! ohmy.gif

Cheers
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rob balsamo
post Apr 17 2012, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE (woody @ Apr 17 2012, 11:55 AM) *
Dennis Cimino now has accused me of libelling him, slandering him, committing character assassination, calling him "instable" and insinuating "mental incapacity", blackmailing etc. etc.


Yeah, i don't think Dennis understands the meaning of any of those words.

He claims I am doing the same, somehow I am blackmailing him by saying I will forward his emails to anyone who wants them, to set the record straight.

Psst, Dennis, when someone attempts blackmail, they usually want something from the person being blackmailed. Such as "Give me 50,000 dollars or I will release tapes of you cheating on your wife".

Dennis, I want nothing from you, no one is attacking you, no one is libeling you, no one is slandering you and certainly no one is trying to blackmail you. This thread was created to defend you. You sir came off the rails and started to libel and attack our organization and me personally, after I went round and round with Fetzer, showing him the physics and logic of his argument, only for him to constantly insult our forum members and me. It's all right here in this thread. I think your long diatribes and rants posted by your messenger boy Fetzer since are pathetic.

Dennis, here's a bit of insight into the meaning of libel, if you make a claim, you may want to back it up with a source. Most of the claims you make regarding our emails exchanges are completely false. Your claims such as me calling you a "jew hater" are knowingly false as you read and replied to the emails yourself. This makes your claims libel. All I am willing to do is provide those emails to anyone who wants them so they can have all the information and decide for themselves. You obviously don't want people to have all the information and instead make up your own..... and somehow think it is blackmail if I provide the source you fail to provide. That's hilarious!

Dennis, why don't you share the original emails yourself, instead of making inaccurate claims of the contents?

You won't share them, as then you won't be able to make such false claims. It's just that simple.

Dennis, did you ever tell Fetzer why you lied about a post I made for you? Why do you need a messenger boy to make your posts? You can't figure out the simple steps to make a post, but you want people to believe you flew the FE Panel on a 727? Really?

With that said, you will be happy to know that no one has asked for the emails as of yet... they already know your word isn't worth much at this point. But if asked, I will share. You're the one who brought up the contents... if you don't want people to have all the information, don't bring it up... and certainly don't lie about it... it's just that simple.

Dennis, when are you going to confront the FBI and NTSB?

Good luck in Vancouver, if you ever make it there.

You may also want to remove the "Second Officer" claim in your qualifications as it only takes 2 mins to look up your Certificates in the FAA Database which shows that you do not hold a Flight Engineer Certificate for the "Second Officer" position. Maybe you were a Flight Attendant and you think this is the "Second Officer" position on a 727? If so, you would be wrong.

Stop lying Dennis. Life is so much easier when you are honest with yourself and others.
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