Wtc7 Southwestern Area, Source of smoke? Options

[onesliceshort]

WTC7 Southwest Corner


Pre-9/11

I've tried to piece together an overall view of the lower southwestern region of WTC7 pre 9/11. 

South face legend:

(IMG:http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2362/imageygua.jpg)

South face promenade (left) and pedestrian bridge pre 9/11:

(IMG:http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9721/imagetur.jpg)

Aeriel view of south face (including promenade) pre 9/11 from North Tower:

(IMG:http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/408/imagepjx.jpg)

As above:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9909/imagetix.jpg

Cropped:

(IMG:http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6597/imagegerj.jpg)

The red "sculpture" seen on the promenade with southwestern section of WTC7 in background:

(IMG:http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7613/imagepmiw.jpg)

As above:

(IMG:http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8931/imagebck.jpg)

As above:

(IMG:http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3748/imagerxam.jpg)

As above:

(IMG:http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/7483/imagesns.jpg)

View from within the lobby towards the promenade:

(IMG:http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7430/imageunt.jpg)


The loading dock, to the southwest of the building, was 2 floors high, and was underneath the promenade.

Post South Tower

Following stills taken from this video:




Image taken allegedly at 10:15am on 9/11 underneath the promenade towards the southwest of WTC7:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9620/imageous.jpg

As above — loading docks on right:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9481/imagejfh.jpg

As above — further southwest

http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/7461/imagebrd.jpg

As above to the immediate right looking into the loading dock:

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3047/imageisu.jpg

As above inside the loading dock:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4093/imagerupc.jpg

As above but showing the far/south side of the promenade, opposite the loading dock:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9774/imageqli.jpg

Inside the ground floor lobby just beyond the loading dock — pedestrian bridge can be seen — this section of the lobby is 4 storys tall:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3665/imageqwkj.jpg

Reception area of third floor lobby:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7933/imagelsc.jpg

As above — escalator to third floor (promenade entrance level)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8783/imageqzob.jpg

Promenade seen from the west:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3239/imagerpqv.jpg

as above:

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4126/imageukt.jpg


Post North Tower

"Southwest corner damage extended over floors 8 to 18 [NIST Apx. L pg 18]"

Promenade seen from east underneath pedestrian bridge after the North Tower collapse:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7109/imagegyu.jpg

Enlarged - note that where the promenade meets the facade appears to be structurally sound:

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/images...ewithsouzz8.jpg

"12:10 to 12:15 p.m.
- No fires, heavy dust or smoke were reported as they left floor 8
[NIST Apx. L pg 18]"

Columns and floors on the southwest corner (@1pm):

NCSTAR 1A pg 52
"The absence of diesel fuel fires on Floor 5 was consistent with the information from interviews that sometime after 1:00 p.m., OEM and FDNY staff climbed the east stairway of WTC 7 and did not see much damage on Floors 4, 5, or 6 from their viewing location. They made no mention of fire, heat or smoke."

East face of WTC7 door open - @1pm+

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2589/imageplb.jpg

Following video stills of Southwest corner taken from these videos:






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/wec...alysis_full.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/wec...alysis_crop.jpg

Original (without markings) — note the clean cut (around window line 6 area) and the fact that the smoke is self-contained within that corner of the building with no fires or smoke spreading through the undamaged section. Particularly along floors 12 and 13 seeing as how fires would be seen on floor 12 of the east face an hour later:

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3139/wtc7holexy2.jpg

Southwest corner seen from Northwest:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5473/imageilz.jpg

Smouldering debris pile at Southwest corner:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7857/imageukm.jpg


White smoke apparently emanating from debris pile off of the southwest corner - where the promenade meets the south face:

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2620/221number19.jpg

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1470/221number22.jpg

Above (enlarged):

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8092/imageanx.jpg

1) There were positively no visible fires below Floor 7 throughout the day throughout the day and alleged FDNY reports until at least 1pm from within the building at floors 5 and 8 refute the existence of fires in the lower floors.

2) This section
goes into more detail about the photographic evidence available on the south face of WTC7. So far, I haven't seen any photographic evidence of visible fires on the south face of WTC7.

3) as for the Southwestern corner, short-lived fires were seen above the damaged section at floors 29 and 30 and were extinguished by 12:47pm. There were also smaller, short-lived fires at the southwest corner on floors 18 and 22.

4) smoke was seen emanating from the rubble pile on the promenade, with the possibility that the smoke was funneled up through the "hole" in the facade and possibly from the lower section of the damage. Again, we're left with the problem of the fact that no fires spread from this area..

What could possibly have been producing smoke for close on 5 hours and not produce visible fires or fire damage to the surrounding area? And why was the smoke concentrated in that section?

I think that the answer lies in the combustible free lower lobbys and promenade. That the NIST claimed (and visible) externally visible damage between the 8th and 18th floor extended through to one of the lobbys and that it was self contained within that area.

Why does it matter at all? Subtract the smoke from WTC5 and 6. Then subtract the smoke/dust that was billowing from the southwest corner for most of the day. Then try and convince people that anything other than CD brought that building down. Whether by exotic explosives, or external forces other than "office fires".

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Apr 21 2013, 02:16 PM

[onesliceshort]

(IMG:http://www.rebrammer.com/images/west2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.rebrammer.com/images/coned1.jpg) Con-Ed before

(IMG:http://www.rebrammer.com/images/coned2.jpg) Con-Ed after

(IMG:http://www.rebrammer.com/images/coned3.jpg) Con-Ed and ramp

I found these images at 911forum (Mr. Koenig). Very handy.

(IMG:http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4324/070619851explanwtc7.png)

(IMG:http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/748/imagezgy.jpg)

[SanderO]

The trusses in the photos appear to be mis-labeled. Also the trusses are MUCH larger and more complex than the cartoon depicts them. Something is not kosher here because the cartoon does not reflect the actual construction.

The trusses are 3 dimensional *space frames* and appear to span over the entire sub station (second to last photo). This makes sense because it was impossible to have the tower's core columns pass through the sub station to bedrock and so the truss(es) were designed to support the core columns above. The core was above the sub station.

The north row of columns opposite the core inside the face also could not go down to bedrock. So there were cantilever girders which *picked up) the columns at the end of the cantilever. The south then of those cantilever girders were supported by a row of columns abutting the sub station.

The cartoon makes them appear as single plane structures... They clearly are not. Mr Kpenig seems to be confused... or he's confused me... or both.

The question which needs to be researched is:

Why did PANY want to build the tower over the sub station when vacant lots were available across West Street just north of the AmEx tower in the WFC? The complications made this decision not only costly... and difficult to erect... but vulnerable to a sub station explosion (they DO occur).

And why would they further decided place 20,000 gallons of diesel fuel stored in tanks and passing up next to the sub station.. in the 90s? That decision seems to have ignored the potential problems that a sub station explosion could cause to the tower it was beneath.

Good to see that you are looking at the structure.