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Methodical Illusion---rebekah Roth, 30-yr. Flight Attendant's Discoveries

Truthissweet
post Dec 9 2014, 08:16 AM
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QUOTE
No, it's not RR, because RR had 30 years of experience, not 12. But the perspective RG brings to this is exactly the kind of perspective RR did -- the hard reality of what goes on in an airplane -- though RR takes it way further. I'm including below a message I sent to my list (having not yet received RR's book). Apologies for its length.


If it was Roth on LRF, she would have fudged the number of years worked at airlines so she could not be tracked. Maybe she was testing the waters to see how posters would react to her story before it was officially released. Guess we will never know.

I wonder if the NASA logo in 'Operation Terror' is a cryptic clue to NASA Lewis Research Center at Hopkins Airport in Cleveland. Good info in your post.
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NP1Mike
post Dec 9 2014, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE (mainer @ Dec 8 2014, 05:22 PM) *
Most of us have concluded that the calls were done with some kind of voice-morphing and caller-id-spoofing technology. The calmness of most of the callers and the absence of any cabin noise were always problematic. But while the rest of us couldn't come up with an alternative, she has.

... Her remarkable conclusion is that the calls were made on the ground, that all four planes were on the ground shortly after they took off, and at least one was in a hangar (a caller referred to a man "coming down the stairs").


Not to take away anything from Ms. Roth's research or info that she has provided, but if you read the archives at this site and others, you will find that "the calls were made from the ground" theory
was alive and well long before she made this declaration to the public.
It is very likely that when she was doing her research she discovered this theory and agreed with it (her further research corroborating with it).

QUOTE
The final blockbuster for her turned up in a recording of Flight 93 attendant C.C. Lyles. At the very end, a woman's voice says very quietly something like "that was very good."


That 'blockbuster' has turned up for many people, with variations on the theme, such as "It's a frame" etc. (read the archives on this site about C.C. Lyles calls).

QUOTE
From the timing of the calls, she determined how far the planes could have reached from their point of origin, and then figured out where they had to have landed.


Sorry, but this makes no sense at all.

On the one hand she is saying that the calls were made from the ground (I agree with this) and on the other hand she is saying she can determine the planes' locations based on the timing of the calls.

If the calls were made from the ground then they are totally divorced from any 'planes in the air'.
If they goofed with the timing of the calls made from the ground you can't figure out anything about where the planes should have been.

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Truthissweet
post Dec 11 2014, 01:13 PM
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I sent a message thru her website asking if she would review this thread and possibly have a Q&A. I also asked if she was 'randomgal'. Hopefully she replies back.
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Truthissweet
post Feb 1 2015, 11:42 AM
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Review of Roth Book

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/01/31/airline911/


QUOTE
. Roth’s book has set off a stampede by her former colleagues in the aviation industry, who are rushing to provide details supporting her revelations. They are confirming the installation of FTS (Flight Termination System) equipment on the models “hijacked” on 9/11, which allowed those planes to be taken over remotely and flown from the ground. When FTS takes over a plane, it completely shuts down that plane’s communications with the outside world. That explains why not one of the four pilots on any of the 9/11 planes managed to flip a toggle switch and squawk the hijack code. Had the aircraft been hijacked in a normal manner, the pilots, who are trained to instantly squawk “hijack” in such an emergency, all would have done so.



QUOTE
...According to the author’s hypothesis, the FTS-captured-and-silenced planes landed at a nearby Air Force base with gigantic hangars, which Roth identifies and a colleague who was there confirms happened, less than 20 minutes after takeoff. Once on the ground, selected flight attendants and passengers were guided (or forced) to place cell phone calls, during which they read from scripts prepared by the perpetrators.
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Truthissweet
post Feb 5 2015, 01:31 PM
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The link above was from Paula at LRF. If anyone listened to Roth interview with Barrett, was it same type of interview that was previously posted back in this thread. I have issues with Fetzer and will not sign up at the above website to listen to interview.
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Truthissweet
post Mar 13 2015, 11:42 AM
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She will be on CtoC AM this coming Thursday. (3/19)

After a nearly thirty year airline career working as both a flight attendant and an international purser Rebekah Roth has been analyzing many of the well-known facts about the events on 9/11 based on her experiences in the airline industry. She'll discuss how many of the details of the hijacking and financial instruments set up to capitalize on the tragedy do not add up. Hosted by George Noory.
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Truthissweet
post Mar 20 2015, 09:16 AM
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Rebekah Roth CtoC am 3/19/15:

QUOTE
9-11 Puzzles:

After a nearly thirty year airline career working as both a flight attendant and an international purser Rebekah Roth analyzed many of the well-known facts about the events on 9-11 based on her experiences in the airline industry. On Thursday's show, she shared her conclusion that the official story was a deception, and that the attacks were a kind of "false flag" Pearl Harbor event set up to pull America into wars in the Middle East. One of her most interesting areas of research was looking at the FBI transcripts of phone calls made aboard the hijacked planes. First of all, she found it odd that two flight attendants didn't follow hijacking protocol, and engaged in lengthy phone calls. One of the flight attendants complained of pepper spray affecting the ability to breathe in business class, yet Roth suggested that if such a spray was used it would have affected the entire pressurized plane. This, and other clues, led her to believe that the plane wasn't pressurized at all and was inside a hangar at the time of the calls.

Another comment made by a flight attendant referred to one of the hijackers as standing upstairs, "and there are no stairs in a 767," Roth remarked. One passenger, a 32-year old American, called his father and mentioned that an "airline hostess" had been stabbed. This archaic terminology would not normally be used by a young person, and led Roth to suspect that the people making the calls were being fed specific information to say. Further, the fact that so many calls were made (most phones don't work at high altitudes), and it was very quiet on the callers' end, suggests that they were somewhere on the ground, she said.

Additionally, an ex-military pilot, who was a passenger supposedly on the second plane heading into the Twin Towers, was just three minutes from impact, when in a phone conversation with his mother, conjectured that he was in Ohio, Roth recounted. She has concluded that smaller planes or missiles were used to hit the Towers, while American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 were stowed elsewhere, with the passengers being gassed to death.


If this show had been before September, I would have listened to it. However, I am now on a different sleep schedule after 16 years of third shift type hours. If anyone listened to her, can you provide a post. Thanks in advance.
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NP1Mike
post Mar 20 2015, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Mar 20 2015, 08:16 AM) *
Rebekah Roth CtoC am 3/19/15:

If this show had been before September, I would have listened to it. However, I am now on a different sleep schedule after 16 years of third shift type hours. If anyone listened to her, can you provide a post. Thanks in advance.


I listened to the first part of the radio broadcast (two parts).
Anyone can download and listen to it now for free. The second part requires a paid membership.

I have now listened to more than 6 hours or Rebekah Roth on various radio shows.
I know her story.

As I mentioned in a previous post, she doesn't bring anything new to the table re: the key points.

She does add some details of what is standard protocol for flight attendant procedures and outlines that the attendants making the calls were not following these procedures.
In addition she notes the background noise during the calls was impossibly quiet for planes that were essentially diving (also no screaming from passengers etc.).

She finally revealed her blockbuster conclusion that comes at the end of her book.
That the planes were sitting in a hanger after being taken control of by remote control and landed.
That selected passengers were removed from the planes, taken into various rooms and forced to read prepared scripts on phones.
That the remaining passengers on the planes were gassed to death.
That those who were removed and read the scripts were likely shot to death.

Once again, I admire the courage of R. Roth for doing what she did and continues to do.
Although she doesn't bring anything new to the table in the grand scheme of things, she is trying to get the word
out there to the greater public, and for this she is to be highly applauded. thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by NP1Mike: Mar 20 2015, 01:38 PM
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Truthissweet
post Mar 20 2015, 07:00 PM
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(NP, thanks for posting about show)


QUOTE
Once again, I admire the courage of R. Roth for doing what she did and continues to do.
Although she doesn't bring anything new to the table in the grand scheme of things, she is trying to get the word
out there to the greater public, and for this she is to be highly applauded.


Ditto. The one thing I am glad she said was she feels a missile/small plane hit WTC. That was my hopeful reply from her. I differ on the passenger assessment.

Now that she is trying to tell a story different than the official story, when will she be hassled by the IRS; followed online; pension plan 'problems and other stuff known to happen to people who try to spread the real story.
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NP1Mike
post Mar 20 2015, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Mar 20 2015, 06:00 PM) *
(NP, thanks for posting about show)



You are welcome.


QUOTE
Now that she is trying to tell a story different than the official story, when will she be hassled by the IRS; followed online; pension plan 'problems and other stuff known to happen to people who try to spread the real story.


Rebekah has joined in on what may become a new trend re: 9/11 books.
She chose to write her story as fiction.
This is a clever move on several levels.
She now has built-in plausible deniability.
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Truthissweet
post Mar 23 2015, 01:58 PM
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What traffic here concerning Roth. Non-stop for three-four days. Wonder how many fed sites have viewed this thread. Mod, you should post 'who' visits.
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wilddaddy
post May 20 2015, 11:51 AM
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So just finished the book, Methodical Illusions, by Rebekah Roth. I'm curios if this has been discussed here. It was written as a novel and it really didn't get into the 911 stuff until the last quarter or so of the book. Most of the information is known to most people here. She is a retired flight attendant and I thought it was well worth it, just to get her point of view about protocols NOT followed that day, phone calls, flight interruption technology, etc.

She actually names the air base where she thinks the "real" planes were taken.

Regardless, would love to see a discussion here on it.
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mainer
post May 20 2015, 12:57 PM
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This HAS been discussed here before, though I don't have the links to those discussions.

I've heard Rebekah in a number of interviews since last November. She's relatively new to 9/11 Truth, and full of herself, and shows it in some of her comments (such as dissing David Ray Griffin as not having done research), but perhaps that's an advantage in that she comes with new eyes from her perspective as an international master flight attendant.

I found the book a bit rocky to read (she needs a good editor -- Kevin Barrett noted not to expect good literature), and the 9/11 stuff was jammed all together in large chunks that didn't fit the flow of the rest of the novel, and which I have a feeling would put off newcomers. The book was originally written just to describe life as a flight attendant (chick lit?), and she ran into 9/11 truth at the last minute while trying to come up with a name for one of her "Middle Eastern" characters. Hence the patchiness. And the ending is kind of a rose-colored-glasses libertarian dream, though left slightly up in the air.

BUT

She has given us some incredible new insights into those flights because of her experience as a flight attendant. I would call the book a must read. She describes the operational protocols that flight attendants follow, and the realities of the environment in a jetliner, and analyzes the phone calls from that point of view. She rejects the idea of faked calls and voice morphing, which many of us have had to cling to without any good alternatives. She made the jump to assuming they were real calls by real people and went where that led her, particularly

1. They must have been made on the ground (not only the impossibly of cellphone calls from the air, but also the absence of all the things that would have been happening if the described events had been going on in an airplane cabin).

2. If this is true, the timing of the first call in each flight would circumscribe the distance the planes could have flown before being landed again, and assuming they would have all had to be brought to the same place, what were the candidate locations that fell within the 4 flight radii. Westover Air Base in Western MA was the most likely.

3. The people must have been persuaded they were participating in a drill, and since one of the flight attendants had reported a "hijacker" upstairs, that call would have come from a hangar (since 757/767's have no stairs).

4. Since the planes that were supposedly destroyed would have still existed, they'd have to be taken elsewhere. The best candidate was the AFB in Arizona which has been discussed here previously, the one Phil Marshall had nosed around once too often.

This is the first time I know of where someone has come up with an adequate answer to the perennially problematic question asked of all of us -- What happened to the planes and the passengers? I think Methodical Illusions is a must read for all 911 Truth people.
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wilddaddy
post May 20 2015, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE (mainer @ May 20 2015, 11:57 AM) *
This HAS been discussed here before, though I don't have the links to those discussions.

I've heard Rebekah in a number of interviews since last November. She's relatively new to 9/11 Truth, and full of herself, and shows it in some of her comments (such as dissing David Ray Griffin as not having done research), but perhaps that's an advantage in that she comes with new eyes from her perspective as an international master flight attendant.

I found the book a bit rocky to read (she needs a good editor -- Kevin Barrett noted not to expect good literature), and the 9/11 stuff was jammed all together in large chunks that didn't fit the flow of the rest of the novel, and which I have a feeling would put off newcomers. The book was originally written just to describe life as a flight attendant (chick lit?), and she ran into 9/11 truth at the last minute while trying to come up with a name for one of her "Middle Eastern" characters. Hence the patchiness. And the ending is kind of a rose-colored-glasses libertarian dream, though left slightly up in the air.

BUT

She has given us some incredible new insights into those flights because of her experience as a flight attendant. I would call the book a must read. She describes the operational protocols that flight attendants follow, and the realities of the environment in a jetliner, and analyzes the phone calls from that point of view. She rejects the idea of faked calls and voice morphing, which many of us have had to cling to without any good alternatives. She made the jump to assuming they were real calls by real people and went where that led her, particularly

1. They must have been made on the ground (not only the impossibly of cellphone calls from the air, but also the absence of all the things that would have been happening if the described events had been going on in an airplane cabin).

2. If this is true, the timing of the first call in each flight would circumscribe the distance the planes could have flown before being landed again, and assuming they would have all had to be brought to the same place, what were the candidate locations that fell within the 4 flight radii. Westover Air Base in Western MA was the most likely.

3. The people must have been persuaded they were participating in a drill, and since one of the flight attendants had reported a "hijacker" upstairs, that call would have come from a hangar (since 757/767's have no stairs).

4. Since the planes that were supposedly destroyed would have still existed, they'd have to be taken elsewhere. The best candidate was the AFB in Arizona which has been discussed here previously, the one Phil Marshall had nosed around once too often.

This is the first time I know of where someone has come up with an adequate answer to the perennially problematic question asked of all of us -- What happened to the planes and the passengers? I think Methodical Illusions is a must read for all 911 Truth people.



May I use this write up on my facebook? You hit it spot on!!!!
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mainer
post May 20 2015, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE (wilddaddy @ May 20 2015, 12:08 PM) *
May I use this write up on my facebook? You hit it spot on!!!!


Sure.

I hope Ms. Roth doesn't take offense at my frank comments if she see's them (although she has showed sharp defensiveness at questioners in the interviews) -- my appreciation for her analysis goes way beyond any of the criticisms.
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NP1Mike
post May 20 2015, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (mainer @ May 20 2015, 11:57 AM) *
I've heard Rebekah in a number of interviews since last November. She's relatively new to 9/11 Truth, and full of herself, and shows it in some of her comments (such as dissing David Ray Griffin as not having done research), but perhaps that's an advantage in that she comes with new eyes from her perspective as an international master flight attendant.


... This is the first time I know of where someone has come up with an adequate answer to the perennially problematic question asked of all of us -- What happened to the planes and the passengers? I think Methodical Illusions is a must read for all 911 Truth people.




mainer, you have given an excellent review of Ms. Roth's contribution to research of the 9/11 flights.
I think you were right on the mark with your frank comments about Ms. Roth, I feel exactly the same as you.

As far as "where someone has come up with an adequate answer to the perennially problematic question asked of all of us -- What happened to the planes and the passengers?"

It may have been the first time for you, but in doing my 9/11 research I have come upon the exact scenario Ms. Roth describes several times by several people. Some were written more than a decade ago.

As far as MI being a "must read for all 911 Truth people", I wouldn't go that far.
I have read enough reviews of the book (including yours) already and listened to enough of her interviews (more than 8 hours) to know exactly what the important parts of the book contain.

Having said that, Ms. Roth's contributions to 9/11 research are very important.
Anyone who hasn't put in the time listening to her radio interviews and wants to get all the info 'quickly' will probably be best served
by reading her book (particularly the last third).

I don't buy into all of her 9/11 conclusions, but as far as the phone calls and the technical aspects of what goes on in an airplane cabin during a flight she is spot on.






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wilddaddy
post May 20 2015, 02:11 PM
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QUOTE (mainer @ May 20 2015, 12:22 PM) *
Sure.

I hope Ms. Roth doesn't take offense at my frank comments if she see's them (although she has showed sharp defensiveness at questioners in the interviews) -- my appreciation for her analysis goes way beyond any of the criticisms.



Agree with you mike. I read about Ptech, Mitre, etc long ago....that the calls were made either under duress, or as part of a "drill" was speculated long ago.

I found the first three quarters of the book frustrating to say the least. But her perspective as a flight specialist is appreciated....just wondering what "thing" or "event" will get 911 truth really rolling? Not giving up hope, just a bit frustrated....
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wilddaddy
post May 20 2015, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (mainer @ May 20 2015, 12:22 PM) *
Sure.

I hope Ms. Roth doesn't take offense at my frank comments if she see's them (although she has showed sharp defensiveness at questioners in the interviews) -- my appreciation for her analysis goes way beyond any of the criticisms.



Maybe I'll take that stuff out....I actually friended her on facebook...LOL
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NP1Mike
post May 20 2015, 04:47 PM
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We have come full circle with the cell phone calls.

We start with the official story that 15-16 cell phone calls were made from the planes.

Then David Griffin and others’ research shows that cell phone calls would have been impossible from the planes at cruising altitude.

Then the FBI changes the official story at the Zach trial in 2006.
They now say that only 2 cell phone calls were made (Flt. 93), that all the rest were seat-back phone calls.

Then Ms. Roth corroborates with others who believe that cell phone calls were made, but
from the ground, rather than from the air.


So the government has been able to have its cake and eat it too.
For the crucial few years following 9/11 when it was important to implant the story in the general public’s minds of passenger calls from the planes giving details of the ‘hijackings’, cell phone calls it was.

Then when backlash came outlining that cell phone calls could not have been made at cruising altitude, the government’s story mutated, to just two cell phone calls (near ground level). When the new story came out only those following the Zach trial even knew about this new revelation. The general public isn’t aware of the government’s new version of the phone calls and the MSM certainly isn't about to broadcast this extremely important 9/11 detail.

So it is understandable why Ms. Roth can be hostile towards Griffin and his research.
In a talk he gave in 2000 he states “we have good reason to believe that these calls never occurred.” (ie. they were fake).

While Griffin is certainly to be commended for the breadth of his 9/11 research, I have found several important errors that he's made (this being one of them).



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NP1Mike
post May 20 2015, 04:59 PM
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As I mentioned in previous posts, I found many others who came up with a 'cell calls from on the ground' theory for the phone calls.

Here is just one of them from Feb 2010 (almost four years before the publication of her book):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2kFQu6Ux0

At best, Ms. Roth can claim her evidence corroborates the 'cell calls from on the ground' theory.
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