What If We Are Gods?, Hypothetically speaking. Options

[MichaelMR]

I see what you're saying. But ancient history was clear about beings coming to earth in primitive times. Especially the Sumerians, Egyptians and those beings’ hand in man’s progression.

We definitely have numerous achievements on our own, but there is a timeline for everything. We have made an enormous leap into intelligence that is currently unrivaled as far as most people are concerned. The thing is, how and why? I doubt our little achievements can even begin to explain any of this.

[Devilsadvocate]

I doubt our little achievements can even begin to explain any of this.

...No- as the saying goes, there are more things between heaven and earth...a.s.o. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
One of those little mysteries is the fact (not a theory!) that the entire Egyptian culture seems to simply have been *there* one day.
What that means is that *there* you have a stoneage-culture leaving behind stoneage artefacts- and the next thing is that they start to built structures which are amazing at any standard, one moment to the next; they got a fully developed system of writing, and a complete system of religious beliefs.
They themselves spoke of Egypt as an "...image of the heavens- the whole cosmos dwells here". There are also certainly some puzzling facts about other artefacts- not just the Antikythera-machine.
There is also a map- the Piri-Reis-map.
The only thing the experts can agree on is that it's genuine, made in the 15th. century, and that it is a copy of an even older map, probably originating from Constantinople. (The latter was the last remainder of east Rome, and was taken by the Turks in 1453, i think). Piri Reis was a Turkish Admiral who bought the map back then. It shows Antarctica in very precise outlines- and *without* the icecap.
There is a theory that it may have been based on a surviving map from the great Library of Alexandria.
But that doesn't mean that artefacts like these are proof for extraterrestials visiting earth.
The Egyptians kept very precise records about their own history (Little of which has, regrettably, survived). Even so we can assume that the Egypt of the Pharaos is a lot older than the experts are willing to admit- perhaps 10000 years or so.
There is one papyrus (the Turins papyrus) which states that the plans, rules and regulations for the temples in Egypt were passed to the High priests by way of a Goatskin-manuscript dating to the era of the "Shemsu Heru"- the 'Followers of Horus', which ruled Upper Egypt before the pharaos.
It states that the Shemsu Heru ruled for "...13420 years...", and continues "reigns before the Shemsu Heru- 23200 years". In that respect you need to know that the few records which have survived don't contain any dates akin to the old testament (i.e., such-and-such a king lived for 800 years), but quite accurate information which in many cases is verifiable by way of the mummies which were recovered.
If those records are accurate, then i have no reason to doubt the Turins papyrus either- which would mean that they had records (probably based on verbal traditions) reaching back nearly 45000 years (which does not mean they were building pyramids 45000 years ago).
I think they quite simply possessed the theorethical knowledge for a particular project or advance long before that advance was implemented- in other words, they knew about architecture and mathematics *before* ever thinking about actually building any structures out of stone. As i said before- to them knowledge was a matter of understanding God, and of understanding themselves, rather than a means by which to obtain technology. That's why Archimedes was thrown out of that university- he mixed "pure thinking" with "filthy matter"...
If they could see this technological world today, they'd be reeling in their tombs!
Now you could ask the question "why *did* they begin to build stone-structures?"
It looks like a contradiction of that principle, no?
I think the answer is quite simple: To provide a canvass- a means by which to preserve the principles of their culture. Somewhere under "Poetry" i quoted a piece of text, the "Instructions of Ankh-Sheshonq". At it's beginning is a passage which reads "...Oh, you people who shall find these potsherds...". (Potsherds and Limestone-flakes were sometimes used by Egyptian scribes as practise-pieces).
In other words- the fellow who wrote this was fully aware that someone someday would find the remains of his handywork, and decipher it. And that's some menthal jump! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[liberty-911]

So in theory, would you say that the words represent the unison of consciousness and energy?

That depends on how you define 'energy'.
If the definition is based on the physicist's definition- i.e., *matter* in a different form- then no, i don't think that's it.
As i pointed out before, a thought is not something perceivable with the senses.
It can't be touched, seen or smelled.
It's basically the concept of an 'idea'; it will become visible once it becomes manifest in a different form- as a written word, for example, or as an 'invention':
Take the motorcar. That's an idea- but it only becomes manifest to someone other then the inventor of the motorcar (Benz, i believe?) once it has been translated into a drawing, or once a prototype has been built.
You can destroy a motorcar- but try to destroy the *idea* of the motorcar...
The ancients thought that the idea of creation existed *before* anything was created- hence the concept of "in the beginning was the word", and also the concept of "God can not be perceived with the senses".
However- the longer i've been looking at the culture of the Egyptians, the more i got the feeling that their idea of all this was that the physical universe is a 'reflection' of the spiritual universe.
If that's the case, then the laws of nature (Netjer!) would apply to that spiritual universe- or rather, there would also be a reflection of those laws which would apply to that universe. That's what they were interested in when looking at the laws of nature: To them, it was a question of understanding their inner universe and, by extention, of understanding God.
When the Greeks arrived in Egypt, the Egyptians used the wheel only for chariots (which had been introduced into that place from the outside, by the 'Hyksos'- the shepherd-kings, or 'Heka-Shaasu'). Heavy loads were still moved the same way as when the pyramids were built- by boats and sleds.
At the same time, the Greeks were awstruck by the level of knowledge and wisdom the Egyptians possessed (which was proverbial back then: If you wanted to describe someone as especially wise, you would say "this is someone as wise as an Egyptian".)
They just never used their knowledge to alter the physical world: *That* universe already existed- there was no point in creating another on top of it. The technology they used to create their monuments would be seen as primitive today- yet they could have built computers back then.
The soul is the point from which ideas or thoughts emanate- so they thought of the universe as existing as a thought in the mind of God- We are the components of which God consists. The physical universe is merely the mirror in which these ideas become visible indirectly- as reflections. But there is always that physical component in the background, and it has to be allowed for as long as we exist within this physical world.
So- maybe it's possible to think of 'energy' in this context also as a 'reflection':
A reflection of the physical form of energy as a symbolic concept which allows an explanation which otherwise would be impossible to follow.
"In the beginning, there was nothingness..."
Just try to draw me an image of 'nothingness'!!! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

Is this not Creation its self? Nothing to Something to Nothing To Something, endlessly. Yin and Yang.

[MichaelMR]

Hmm, lots of insight here indeed. It looks like you have quite a bit of knowledge about the Egyptians, DA. I'm really impressed. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

With this quote here, I was wondering if we could discuss this a bit.

"...image of the heavens- the whole cosmos dwells here"

Now, we both know that the Egyptians had esoteric beliefs. They believed in illumination, enlightenment and in consciousness. They were extremely big on symbolism, geometry, sacred sciences and alignments with the sun, stars and overall cosmos. Passing on this high knowledge often required extreme preparation and was done in secrecy. Only a limited number of a few geniuses which include Isaac Newton, Galileo, Da Vinci and others were allowed to receive some of these esoteric teachings. Why would this be? Obviously this doesn’t corroborate with the preservation of knowledge like you’ve intelligently theorized, I do believe that the general knowledge would have been passed on. But why the secrecy when it comes to certain topics mentioned above?

I don't know if you've seen Magical Egypt by John Anthony West, but it speaks a great deal about this and is a fascinating view point. It’s well worth the watch, if you’re interested. Here is the link to the first part; you should be able to locate the entire series through Google video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...223008532&hl=en

This post has been edited by MichaelMR: Mar 18 2007, 09:52 AM

[liberty-911]

The Plejaran's state that the pyramids are 73,000 years old.

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/pleiadians.html


I don't know to make an active link to the website, so you will need to copy and paste. I just learned how to do that. It did it automaticly, gee.

Now if this is true, how did Moses lead the Jews out of bondage?
If their is no God, only "Creation," how can the Jews be God's chosen people?
Can you see why the "Lie" of God must be continue?

This post has been edited by liberty-911: Mar 18 2007, 03:20 PM

[MichaelMR]

The Plejaran's state that the pyramids are 73,000 years old.

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/pleiadians.html


I don't know to make an active link to the website, so you will need to copy and paste. I just learned how to do that. It did it automaticly, gee.

Now if this is true, how did Moses lead the Jews out of bondage?
If their is no God, only "Creation," how can the Jews be God's chosen people?
Can you see why the "Lie" of God must be continue?

I've read about Pleiades and I honestly don't know what to say. Mainly because it's open to so many different interpreations. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif)

[liberty-911]

Quite simple, do preceive Creations as being Created by God? Do you preceive life through out the Trillions of Galaxies or just on Earth? Do you preceive the Egypt structures as being created and designed by humans? I watched the video about Magical Egypt, was that mathematical discovery back then our did the knowledge come from another planet? I also noticed yin and yang on one of their walls. Could this be the secret the Egyptian's were given but was lost or distroyed, genetic alterations, by extraterrestrials?

This post has been edited by liberty-911: Mar 18 2007, 04:38 PM

[MichaelMR]

That's probably the difficult thing for most to answer. I think you can pretty much guess what my answer is to most of those questions. We can go on to discuss Greys, Nordics, Pleiadians, Draconians, and everything in between. But to fully understand the truth behind what these topics really are is controversial and people like us shouldn’t take everything we read in regard to this at face value. See what I’m saying, Lib?

A lot of these theories are simply that, people’s theories and while it may make a lot of sense, it definitely has to be able to go under scrutiny. And if I’m correct, I think you are way past the “if they exist” phase of ET beliefs and I’m there with you. Some here aren’t. So I’m being a bit more conservative in the discussions here. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Devilsadvocate]

There is an interesting aspect to this whole discussion. Just ask the question "why did mankind begin to worship gods?", and you will sooner or later come across the concept of finding something greater than oneself, something which will give a fundamental meaning to existance. To the Egyptians, it was Isis or Osiris; to the jews Jahveh; to christians Christ.
Somewhere there is always a level of sublimation involved, and a certain mystique. And you could say "Ah- but i can live without that...", and it may very well be the truth.
But no two people are ever the same- and for some (if not most), it's important to have something like that, simply to keep them from going off the rails.
These days, a lot of people are beginning to question a lot of the premises our unrivalled western civilisation is based on- simply because it becomes blatantly obvious that there are a few nasty side-effects. Global warming, Ozone-layer, or even the realisation how easy it is to manipulate people...
So, they begin to reject aspects of western civilisation, including a lot of the religious concepts. But the idea of Alien visitors may in itself be a manifestation of the desire to have something bigger than oneself...

By the way- this is my solution to the little riddle i posed:

NOTHINGNESS

...Now- if i could only see your faces... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) !!!

This post has been edited by Devilsadvocate: Mar 18 2007, 08:58 PM

[MichaelMR]

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) I wasn’t expecting that one.

So, they begin to reject aspects of western civilisation, including a lot of the religious concepts. But the idea of Alien visitors may in itself be a manifestation of the desire to have something bigger than oneself...

I think it's the other way around in my opinion. The idea of a supernatural god who governs all is man's desire escape his preconception that death is the final straw. The fact that certain people will acknowledge ET’s coming to earth isn’t based on faith, but recorded history by ancient civilizations. Though technically you are relying on faith based on what others have said.

But what concludes in my mind that there is more to this is based on the fact that numerous ancient civilizations corroborate with each other when it comes to the discussion of alien life, especially in ancient times. There have been so much in-depth descriptions of these beings that it would be unscientific to dismiss the claims of these people.

[liberty-911]

What is the Creation?

Excerpt from Stimme der Wassermannzeit, No. 89 December 1993

1. Creation is the immeasurable mystery suspended in immeasurable expanse.
2. Creation is identical to 'Universal Consciousness', which guides and prevails in the BEING of consciousness; it is a double-helix, egg-shaped configuration that simultaneously constitutes the Universe in its growing expansion. Its pulsating double-helix arms live as spiritual energy, while rotating against each other.
3. The Universe is Creation’s internal and external body.
4. Creation --- through its entirety pulsate the Universal 'Gemüt' (a non-translatable German term for the spiritual counterpart to the psyche) and the Universal Consciousness, the power of life and existence in general.
5. Creation pervades everything and everything pervades Creation, therefore forming oneness within itself. Within this oneness occur all life and all of the evolution allotted to it.
6. Creation has the identical developmental and evolutionary process as every life form, --- however, its values of time are anchored in very high values indeed.
7. Creation itself exists in a conscious creative state for seven Great-Times. --- Subsequently it lays dormant for an equal number of Great-Times, but this time they last seven times as long. Following this period, Creation is awake to create once again for a period seven times as longer once again than the previous one. (One Great-Time is equal to 311,040,000,000,000 terrestrial years; seven Great-Times add up to 2,177,280,000,000,000 terrestrial years, also called an eternity; 7 x 7 Great-Times make one All-Great-Time.)
8. Creation is The Creation and there exists no Creation other than it within its own Universe.
Creation is the Creation of all creations such as the Universe, the galaxies, stars, earths (earth is equivalent to 'planets' in this context), skies, light and darkness, time, space and all multitudes of life forms in existence, each according to its own species.
9. Creation is justice, love, strength, wisdom, knowledge, compassion, freedom, mercy, laws, directive, alliance, fulfillment, evolution, life, support, joy, beauty, peace, infallibility, equilibrium, spirit, forever, logic, growth, perfection, contentment, inexhaustibility, omnipotence, sweetness, infinity, solidarity, perception, harkening, elevation, the Sohar, gentleness, lucidity, purity, transformation, origin, future, power, reverence, allness and BEING.
10. Creation is the BEING and non-BEING of life. It is the most immense mass of spiritual energy in the Universe.
11.Creation is spirit in its purest form and immeasurable in its wisdom, knowledge, love and harmony in truth.
12. Creation is a spiritually dynamic, pure-spirit energy that prevails over everything. Incomprehensible for human beings, it is an active, creative wisdom in the midst of its own incessant evolution; it is all-encompassing for all times.
13. Creation is verity, the all-embracing, solace, comprehensiveness, guidance, equality, accuracy, cognition, empirical knowledge, admonition, discipline, recollection, revelation, praise, perfection, explanation and direction.
14. Creation is the path of life; it is nature, light, fire and contemplation; Creation is consciousness, and it is omnipresent.

Glory be to Creation.

Billy Meier

The structure of the Creation according to the Plejarens

The doublespiral structure of the Creation

[tocarm]

That is purely naturalistic gnostic immanance 'spirituality'. It's a bloated sophistry.
Taking the entire cosmos and "worshipping it" is no different whatsoever than chipping away at a stone, making it into whatever form or idol one wants, putting it on 4 square feet of space.

When will it dawn in the minds of the sophists with their naturalism to begin turning their minds, their thoughts and their spiritual aspirations onto the CREATOR of the creation with which they choose to limit their enchantment?

- tocarm

"Ever since God created the world His everlasting power and Deity - however invisibile - have been there for the mind to see in the things He has made. That is why such people are without excuse; they knew God and yet refused to honour Him as God or to thank Him; instead, they made nonsense out of logic and their empty minds were darkened." - St. Paul the Apostle - Romans 1:20-21

"Through Him all things came to be, not one thing had its being but through Him.
All that came to be had life in Him and that Life was the Light of men. ... He was in the world that had its being through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His Own domain and His own people did not accept Him. .. The Word was made flesh, He lived among us, and we saw His Glory, the Glory that is His as the only Son of the Father, full of Grace and Truth."
- St. John the Apostle - Gospel of St. John - John 1:1;14

[liberty-911]

tocarm: Choice; either you eat the apple or you don't. If force is used, there is no Choice. Can "WE' agree to disagree and concentrate one getting the criminals of 911 in front of a Jury? That's my Free Choice, what about your's?