The Gate 26/32 question, Where did AA 11 departure? Options

[woody]

Some of you may know that there are conflicting accounts regarding the departure gate of AA 11. Some sources say it was Gate 26, some say Gate 32.

I gathered the evidence here (my first 9/11 piece):

http://de.geocities.com/woody_box2000/TwinFlight.html

The 9/11 Commission Report was published half a year later and presented - in my eyes - confirmation for the oddities at Logan Airport. F.I. in the footnotes we learn that some of the passengers of Flight 11 boarded the plane after the push-back! Can any aviation expert tell me how this is possible? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

9. See TSA report, "Selectee Status of September 11th Hijackers," undated. For boarding and seating information, see AAL record, SABRE information on Flight 11, Sept. 11, 2001.These boarding times from the American system are approximate only; for Flight 11, they indicated that some passengers "boarded" after the aircraft had pushed back from the gate. See AAL response to the Commission's February 3, 2004, requests, Mar. 15, 2004.

Chapter I, note 9

But there's more, even better:

6. For Flight 11, two checkpoints provided access to the gate. The second was opened at 7:15 A.M. The FAA conducted many screener evaluations between September 11, 1999, and September 11, 2001.At the primary checkpoints, in aggregate, screeners met or exceeded the average for overall, physical search, and X-ray detection, while falling below the norm for metal detection. No FAA Special Assessments (by "red teams") were done at Logan security checkpoints during the two years prior to September 11, 2001. See FAA briefing materials, "Assessment and Testing Data for BOS, EWR, and IAD," Oct. 24, 2001.

Chapter I, Note 6

I was wondering why two checkpoints provide access to one gate. I always thought one checkpoint provides access to multiple gates.

Loose Change member JackD has provided me with a nice map of the AA Terminal at Logan:

http://i.elias-savion.com/11/59/en-us/docu...boston_b_aa.pdf

Obviously, there is only one security checkpoint for Gate 32 (the gate favoured by the 9/11 Commission). But - and this is interesting - Gate 26 has to be entered through a different checkpoint.

Is that what the 9/11 Commission means? One checkpoint for each gate? But why don't they mention gate 26, and which of the planes was Flight 11, anyway?

Do multiple checkpoints for one gate make sense at all?

Anyone here familiar with Logan Airport?

[DANDPT]

RE: chapter 6 of the Fetzer book, The 9/11 Conspiracy, The Scamming of America. The authors of that chapter are Morgan Reynolds and Rick Rjter. They state that AA flight #11 was not scheduled on 9/11.(page144) A footnote to that information gives a closed web address. Can anyone provide information on this topic? Thank You.

[elreb]

RE: chapter 6 of the Fetzer book, The 9/11 Conspiracy, The Scamming of America. The authors of that chapter are Morgan Reynolds and Rick Rjter. They state that AA flight #11 was not scheduled on 9/11.(page144) A footnote to that information gives a closed web address. Can anyone provide information on this topic? Thank You.

0011 didn't fly on Tuesdays but 9-11 was a Tuesday...[BTS] records

[DANDPT]

0011 didn't fly on Tuesdays but 9-11 was a Tuesday...[BTS] records

This is an important point.
The 1962 CIA Operation Northwoods suggestion is also for a
NON-SCHEDULED flight. This is necessary to keep any random
passengers from trying to board and to have total control of the passenger list.
Then Northwoods advises ....."all passengers are boarded under carefully prepared aliases".
So we've got a drone aircraft at Gate 26 and we are boarding passengers at Gate 32.
Both aircraft are AA11.
Everything between these gates and the North Tower are attempts at obfuscation.
Now we need to carefully examine the passenger list.
Please tell me how to find information on that topic.
I'm having trouble navigating around in this forum as I am a NEWBIE here.
Thank You, Dan

[elreb]

I'm having trouble navigating around in this forum as I am a NEWBIE here.
Thank You, Dan

Try search...upper right hand next to help...

[DANDPT]

Try search...upper right hand next to help...

Did the Commission publish the passenger lists?
That's what i'm looking for.
Couldn't find it with SEARCH. I knew enough to check that first.

I'm just throwing out ideas for conjecture here.
I'm trying to be very objective as we are dealing with impossibily confused information.
We can posit a second AA11 at the gate in Boston, but I don't see it as the drone.
How are you going to get that off the ground without drawing attention at Logan?
That plane has to come from Hemstead or elsewhere and that is the plane that hits the North Tower.
And it doesn't even have AA markings! They don't have to bother with that.
Comments?

[woody]

Did the Commission publish the passenger lists?
That's what i'm looking for.
Couldn't find it with SEARCH. I knew enough to check that first.

I'm just throwing out ideas for conjecture here.
I'm trying to be very objective as we are dealing with impossibily confused information.
We can posit a second AA11 at the gate in Boston, but I don't see it as the drone.
How are you going to get that off the ground without drawing attention at Logan?
That plane has to come from Hemstead or elsewhere and that is the plane that hits the North Tower.
And it doesn't even have AA markings! They don't have to bother with that.
Comments?

I`m still working on the matter. Things look like this (I tell you without providing evidence):

The plane at Gate 32 was in fact N334AA, the "official" Flight 11. Its flight path (even the taxi path at the airport) is well documented until about 8:40. I.e. from 7:45 to 8:40 the plane's position is correctly reflected by the official story. After 8:40, however, things become different. N334AA seems to have passed east of NYC, crossing Long Island, and turning west over JFK airport, before finally vanishing from the radar scopes. (NORAD tapes)

There is no evidence, however, that any regular passengers (besides of some "special" ones) embarked on this plane. Probably Waleed and Wail Al-Shehri (allegedly being "muscle hijackers", but in fact professional Saudi pilots) were sitting in the cockpit and simulated a hijacking, fulfilling their part in the ongoing military exercises.

The majority of the passengers certainly embarked on the plane at Gate 26. It is not clear, however, whether this plane pushed back from the gate at all. I presume that the passengers were transferred to another plane via bus.

Sorry if I provide no sources etc., but this is the actual state of my research. You'll hear more from me on this subject.

[DANDPT]

I`m still working on the matter. Things look like this (I tell you without providing evidence):

The plane at Gate 32 was in fact N334AA, the "official" Flight 11. Its flight path (even the taxi path at the airport) is well documented until about 8:40. I.e. from 7:45 to 8:40 the plane's position is correctly reflected by the official story. After 8:40, however, things become different. N334AA seems to have passed east of NYC, crossing Long Island, and turning west over JFK airport, before finally vanishing from the radar scopes. (NORAD tapes)

There is no evidence, however, that any regular passengers (besides of some "special" ones) embarked on this plane. Probably Waleed and Wail Al-Shehri (allegedly being "muscle hijackers", but in fact professional Saudi pilots) were sitting in the cockpit and simulated a hijacking, fulfilling their part in the ongoing military exercises.

The majority of the passengers certainly embarked on the plane at Gate 26. It is not clear, however, whether this plane pushed back from the gate at all. I presume that the passengers were transferred to another plane via bus.

Sorry if I provide no sources etc., but this is the actual state of my research. You'll hear more from me on this subject.

I am interested to hear more. A few questions to add to the mix................

How does a NON-SCHEDULED Flight (It's Tuesday- no AA11)) get SCHEDULED?
How does a passenger buy a ticket on a flight that is not scheduled?


Has there ever been anyone on the P4T Forum who knew Capt. Ogonowski?
He was/is a real person, I presume. Has there been no published investigation into his background?

Remember ELREB would have this second plane at Gate 26 as IMAGINARY. Any comment on that possibility?
I do like this idea that the two Saudis fly an empty AA11 then land at unknown base having completed their part of the scenario.
Then the drone goes up.

[woody]

I am interested to hear more. A few questions to add to the mix................

How does a NON-SCHEDULED Flight (It's Tuesday- no AA11)) get SCHEDULED?
How does a passenger buy a ticket on a flight that is not scheduled?


Has there ever been anyone on the P4T Forum who knew Capt. Ogonowski?
He was/is a real person, I presume. Has there been no published investigation into his background?

Remember ELREB would have this second plane at Gate 26 as IMAGINARY. Any comment on that possibility?
I do like this idea that the two Saudis fly an empty AA11 then land at unknown base having completed their part of the scenario.
Then the drone goes up.

Where did you get that AA11 never was scheduled on Tuesdays? I'm pretty certain it was, a look at the BTS would help, but its website is just getting overhauled at this moment.

Ogonowski was a real person, of course. He was NOT SCHEDULED to fly on 9/11, and he didn't want to either because he had two important dates on this day. But one day before, he called up the pilot who was scheduled für Flight 11 - his name is Walter Sorenson - and demanded from him to give him the flight, which was his right as the senior pilot.

The best explanation I have for this behavior is that he got a sudden call from the military to take part in Vigilant Guardian (or another exercise). Ogonowski was ex-navy.

For more information, go here:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/121085/1/

The second plane at Gate 26 is not imaginary at all. I'm in personal contact with someone who witnessed passengers boarding Flight 11 at Gate 26. He took a flight at an adjacent gate, at the same time. He was completey surprised when I told him that the official story has Flight 11 taking off from Gate 32!

I'm still providing no sources - this is for elreb - because this is meant to be preliminary info for people who trust me and know that I'm usually not talking nonsense. I'm working on the matter and promise you that the gate question is a potential giant smoking gun.

[Sergio]

Where did you get that AA11 never was scheduled on Tuesdays? I'm pretty certain it was, a look at the BTS would help, but its website is just getting overhauled at this moment.

Ogonowski was a real person, of course. He was NOT SCHEDULED to fly on 9/11, and he didn't want to either because he had two important dates on this day. But one day before, he called up the pilot who was scheduled für Flight 11 - his name is Walter Sorenson - and demanded from him to give him the flight, which was his right as the senior pilot.

The best explanation I have for this behavior is that he got a sudden call from the military to take part in Vigilant Guardian (or another exercise). Ogonowski was ex-navy.

For more information, go here:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/121085/1/

The second plane at Gate 26 is not imaginary at all. I'm in personal contact with someone who witnessed passengers boarding Flight 11 at Gate 26. He took a flight at an adjacent gate, at the same time. He was completey surprised when I told him that the official story has Flight 11 taking off from Gate 32!

I'm still providing no sources - this is for elreb - because this is meant to be preliminary info for people who trust me and know that I'm usually not talking nonsense. I'm working on the matter and promise you that the gate question is a potential giant smoking gun.

Hi Woody,
this is my first post here. Please allow me to say that I am a great supporter of your theories and I can't wait to read your next post in your blog. I consider you one of the most interesting researchers on 9/11 and I think your work was really valuable so far.

I have a question about Flight 198 which was, as you know, the flight coming from SFO who (allegedly) became later the infamous Flight 11.
Who was the pilot of that flight? Is there any information/evidence about?

Also, according to some accounts I found on the Internet, Flight 198 landed on gate 21 on 9/11. Last time I made a query on the BTS system, however, I could not find a wheels-on time. The scheduled arrival time was 6:24. On 9/10 Flight 198 landed on 6:03, but I found no information about the actual landing time on 9/11.

If you have any information about both questions I would really appreciate.

Regards
Sergio

This post has been edited by Sergio: Feb 20 2011, 02:31 PM

[woody]

Hi Woody,
this is my first post here. Please allow me to say that I am a great supporter of your theories and I can't wait to read your next post in your blog. I consider you one of the most interesting researchers on 9/11 and I think your work was really valuable so far.

I have a question about Flight 198 which was, as you know, the flight coming from SFO who (allegedly) became later the infamous Flight 11.
Who was the pilot of that flight? Is there any information/evidence about?

Also, according to some accounts I found on the Internet, Flight 198 landed on gate 21 on 9/11. Last time I made a query on the BTS system, however, I could not find a wheels-on time. The scheduled arrival time was 6:24. On 9/10 Flight 198 landed on 6:03, but I found no information about the actual landing time on 9/11.

If you have any information about both questions I would really appreciate.

Regards
Sergio

Thanks for your kind words, Sergio, very encouraging.

I haven't specific information on Flight 198, apart from the fact, that it indeed arrived at Gate 32 and was the same plane as FLight 11 (N334AA). I have statements of people working at the airport (packers etc.) clearly confirming this. Please understand if I don't release the source at this moment.

It arrived at 6:03 on 9/11. The reason it is listed under 9/10 is because it departed on that day. Obviously if a flight departs from the West coast in the evening and arrives at the East coast the next day, the arrival day is noted in the BTS database on the same day as the departure day (i.e. the day before). This is also the reason that you don't find arrival data for Flight 198 on 9/11 - there was no Flight 198 arriving at 9/12.

This has caused a lot of confusion among researchers, but it's definitely true. Check it with other west-east flights.

[Sergio]

Hi Woody, first of all thank you very much you for taking the time to reply to my questions.

I haven't specific information on Flight 198, apart from the fact, that it indeed arrived at Gate 32 and was the same plane as FLight 11 (N334AA). I have statements of people working at the airport (packers etc.) clearly confirming this. Please understand if I don't release the source at this moment.

No problem at all for the sources, of course I understand.
Actually my question about the pilot of Flight 198 was primarily intended to determine whether it was John Ogonowski or not. According to your sources, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 32 at 6:03, so we can assume that the same plane (N334AA) and the same pilot were used for the official Flight 11, i.e. the plane that departed on 7:45 from Gate 32 according to the 9/11 Commission Report. Of course, there was a lot of time from 6:03 to around 8 o'clock to move from Gate 32 to Gate 26, so the question will probably remain unanswered anyway. However, it could be interesting to know whether John Ogonowski was at the controls of Flight 198 or not. According to her wife Margareth, John Ogonowski "held the line". Now, leaving aside the conflicting statement from Walter Sorenson, it would be interesting to know whether this "line" included Flight 198 and then Flight 11 as a non-stop or not. In other words: where was John Ogonowski before allegedly piloting Flight 11?

Also, I have another question about the account from Karen Booth (quoted in your article).

Sitting in the waiting area trying to wake up with a cup of coffee, we watched as a ?red eye? flight arrived from Los Angeles at the next gate to the one from which our flight would leave. About 40 people disembarked from that flight and disappeared into the crowd. It was at that time that we noticed that the same aircraft would be turning around and heading back to Los Angeles at 7:45 am and would be known as American Airlines Flight #11.
We sat and watched as the waiting area began to fill with people waiting to depart on both the San Juan and Los Angeles flights. We noticed people gathering in the same waiting area who would board Flight #11 but did not pay much attention to their faces, except for two individuals.

I assume that this

Carrier Date Flight # Tail # Destination Sched. Departure Actual Departure Wheels-off Time Taxi-out Time (Minutes)
AA 09/11/2001 1019 N078AA SJU 06:55 07:00 07:14 14

was the flight that Karen Booth took. However, Flight 198 came from SFO, not from LAX. In this page from the airliner.net' forum a short analysis of Karen Booth's statement is provided. According to this source, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 21, not at Gate 32. Can you definitely assure that this information is false?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I think this is vital to keep your theory "clean".

It arrived at 6:03 on 9/11. The reason it is listed under 9/10 is because it departed on that day. Obviously if a flight departs from the West coast in the evening and arrives at the East coast the next day, the arrival day is noted in the BTS database on the same day as the departure day (i.e. the day before). This is also the reason that you don't find arrival data for Flight 198 on 9/11 - there was no Flight 198 arriving at 9/12.

This has caused a lot of confusion among researchers, but it's definitely true. Check it with other west-east flights.

Thank you very much for this clarification, Woody. This explains a lot of things.

Regards
Sergio

This post has been edited by Sergio: Feb 23 2011, 10:40 AM

[woody]

Hi Woody, first of all thank you very much you for taking the time to reply to my questions.


No problem at all for the sources, of course I understand.
Actually my question about the pilot of Flight 198 was primarily intended to determine whether it was John Ogonowski or not. According to your sources, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 32 at 6:03, so we can assume that the same plane (N334AA) and the same pilot were used for the official Flight 11, i.e. the plane that departed on 7:45 from Gate 32 according to the 9/11 Commission Report. Of course, there was a lot of time from 6:03 to around 8 o'clock to move from Gate 32 to Gate 26, so the question will probably remain unanswered anyway. However, it could be interesting to know whether John Ogonowski was at the controls of Flight 198 or not. According to her wife Margareth, John Ogonowski "held the line". Now, leaving aside the conflicting statement from Walter Sorenson, it would be interesting to know whether this "line" included Flight 198 and then Flight 11 as a non-stop or not. In other words: where was John Ogonowski before allegedly piloting Flight 11?

Also, I have another question about the account from Karen Booth (quoted in your article).



I assume that this

Carrier Date Flight # Tail # Destination Sched. Departure Actual Departure Wheels-off Time Taxi-out Time (Minutes)
AA 09/11/2001 1019 N078AA SJU 06:55 07:00 07:14 14

was the flight that Karen Booth took. However, Flight 198 came from SFO, not from LAX. In this page from the airliner.net' forum a short analysis of Karen Booth's statement is provided. According to this source, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 21, not at Gate 32. Can you definitely assure that this information is false?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I think this is vital to keep your theory "clean".


Thank you very much for this clarification, Woody. This explains a lot of things.

Regards
Sergio

Regarding gate 21 - I think you misinterpreted the message:

You read it like this:

arrived at the gate 21 minutes ahead of it's scheduled 6:24 arrival time at 6:03

But it should be read like this:

arrived at the gate 21 minutes ahead of it's scheduled 6:24 arrival time at 6:03 (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Regarding Ogonowski - I think I read a report that he drove to the airport in the morning of 9/11 - have to look...