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The Gate 26/32 question, Where did AA 11 departure?

paranoia
post Feb 13 2011, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (DANDPT @ Feb 13 2011, 05:57 PM) *
Now we need to carefully examine the passenger list.
Please tell me how to find information on that topic.
I'm having trouble navigating around in this forum as I am a NEWBIE here.
Thank You, Dan


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...Bpassenger+list
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DANDPT
post Feb 13 2011, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Feb 13 2011, 07:34 PM) *
Try search...upper right hand next to help...

Did the Commission publish the passenger lists?
That's what i'm looking for.
Couldn't find it with SEARCH. I knew enough to check that first.

I'm just throwing out ideas for conjecture here.
I'm trying to be very objective as we are dealing with impossibily confused information.
We can posit a second AA11 at the gate in Boston, but I don't see it as the drone.
How are you going to get that off the ground without drawing attention at Logan?
That plane has to come from Hemstead or elsewhere and that is the plane that hits the North Tower.
And it doesn't even have AA markings! They don't have to bother with that.
Comments?
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elreb
post Feb 13 2011, 09:41 PM
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From my perspective this was a military exercise designed to confuse everyone…

It was simple…yet complex…

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20990

Civilian commercial flights were imaginary…
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DANDPT
post Feb 14 2011, 11:37 AM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Feb 13 2011, 10:41 PM) *
From my perspective this was a military exercise designed to confuse everyone…

It was simple…yet complex…

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20990

Civilian commercial flights were imaginary…


Very Interesting
I like your comments and conclusions.
I wish you would expand your comments a little more.
For Example...
How do they cover for AA11 passengers, said to be dead,
but they are not dead, because they never were on the plane?
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elreb
post Feb 14 2011, 12:15 PM
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I wouldn’t think it would be difficult to bury or hide imaginary people.

Look at real flights like Pan Am Flight 103 or US Airways Flight 1549 where family members were on TV going berserk with worry about their kin folk.

Has anyone ever gone around to the families on flight 0011 and talked to them. Seen any boarding passed, email notifications or bill statement on charge cards? How about a copy of the insurance check and notice to SSA?

This is a murder investigation…so where is the investigation?
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amazed!
post Feb 14 2011, 05:16 PM
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Probably about 4 or 5 years ago, maybe here at PFT but maybe elsewhere, I read some of the work about an individual who had been investigating the various surviving family members.

He realized that they could be divided into 2 general classes--those who lost family members at WTC, and those who lost family members as passengers on the various flights.

As shown by the Press For Truth video, the former were happy to talk, really seeking answers, and wanted to cooperate.

The latter were reluctant to talk, would often not return calls or answer messages, and generally uncooperative.

I think something can be learned from that.
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DANDPT
post Feb 14 2011, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Feb 14 2011, 01:15 PM) *
I wouldn’t think it would be difficult to bury or hide imaginary people.

Look at real flights like Pan Am Flight 103 or US Airways Flight 1549 where family members were on TV going berserk with worry about their kin folk.

Has anyone ever gone around to the families on flight 0011 and talked to them. Seen any boarding passed, email notifications or bill statement on charge cards? How about a copy of the insurance check and notice to SSA?

This is a murder investigation…so where is the investigation?


The AA11 Flight Manifest "obtained by the Boston Globe" is available online at www.911myths.com. and other places.
Much of the discussion is centered (misdirected) on the question of the names of the terrorists being on the lists or not.

We have listed, John Ogonowski, 52, Dracut, MA ,CAPTAIN
We have listed Thomas McGuinness, 42, Porthsmouth NH, First Officer
Are there any living AA pilots who knew these pilots?
That is, are they real or imaginary?
And are they Dead or Alive after 9/11?
Also notable in Row 8 of First Class are TV Producer David Angell and his wife.
Where is he now?
I'm keen to know!
Dan
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elreb
post Feb 14 2011, 08:17 PM
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Where is the DNA...where are the bodies...
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DANDPT
post Feb 14 2011, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Feb 14 2011, 09:17 PM) *
Where is the DNA...where are the bodies...

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3FCsqayKrSM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


ELREB-
Here is my question.........................
OK- You contend that the commercial flights are IMAGINERY-never took place. I'm OK with that concept.
BUT, they have to tell us that AA11 Captain Ogonowski is now deceased.
What do you think happened to him?
1) He was eliminated
2) He's living a quiet life in Maui and cashes a very welcome monthly check from a Black Ops Company?
Some conjecture here please!
And this TV producer David Angell.... He's got a long BIO. He was a real person. If he never got on AA11, what the (*$#&) happened to him?
Thanks,
Dan
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elreb
post Feb 14 2011, 10:03 PM
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You can roll the bones anyway you want…witness protection…Gitmo… Catatonia…it is all speculation.

The burden of proof lies on the government to show me the bodies of the alleged dead passengers and skyjackers along with the proper documentation proving they are who they say they are.

Also, serial numbered parts and documentation proving that that exact plane crashed…

Airplanes and people do not vaporize…show me the carfax.
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woody
post Feb 15 2011, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE (DANDPT @ Feb 14 2011, 01:00 AM) *
Did the Commission publish the passenger lists?
That's what i'm looking for.
Couldn't find it with SEARCH. I knew enough to check that first.

I'm just throwing out ideas for conjecture here.
I'm trying to be very objective as we are dealing with impossibily confused information.
We can posit a second AA11 at the gate in Boston, but I don't see it as the drone.
How are you going to get that off the ground without drawing attention at Logan?
That plane has to come from Hemstead or elsewhere and that is the plane that hits the North Tower.
And it doesn't even have AA markings! They don't have to bother with that.
Comments?


I`m still working on the matter. Things look like this (I tell you without providing evidence):

The plane at Gate 32 was in fact N334AA, the "official" Flight 11. Its flight path (even the taxi path at the airport) is well documented until about 8:40. I.e. from 7:45 to 8:40 the plane's position is correctly reflected by the official story. After 8:40, however, things become different. N334AA seems to have passed east of NYC, crossing Long Island, and turning west over JFK airport, before finally vanishing from the radar scopes. (NORAD tapes)

There is no evidence, however, that any regular passengers (besides of some "special" ones) embarked on this plane. Probably Waleed and Wail Al-Shehri (allegedly being "muscle hijackers", but in fact professional Saudi pilots) were sitting in the cockpit and simulated a hijacking, fulfilling their part in the ongoing military exercises.

The majority of the passengers certainly embarked on the plane at Gate 26. It is not clear, however, whether this plane pushed back from the gate at all. I presume that the passengers were transferred to another plane via bus.

Sorry if I provide no sources etc., but this is the actual state of my research. You'll hear more from me on this subject.
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DANDPT
post Feb 15 2011, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE (woody @ Feb 15 2011, 10:58 AM) *
I`m still working on the matter. Things look like this (I tell you without providing evidence):

The plane at Gate 32 was in fact N334AA, the "official" Flight 11. Its flight path (even the taxi path at the airport) is well documented until about 8:40. I.e. from 7:45 to 8:40 the plane's position is correctly reflected by the official story. After 8:40, however, things become different. N334AA seems to have passed east of NYC, crossing Long Island, and turning west over JFK airport, before finally vanishing from the radar scopes. (NORAD tapes)

There is no evidence, however, that any regular passengers (besides of some "special" ones) embarked on this plane. Probably Waleed and Wail Al-Shehri (allegedly being "muscle hijackers", but in fact professional Saudi pilots) were sitting in the cockpit and simulated a hijacking, fulfilling their part in the ongoing military exercises.

The majority of the passengers certainly embarked on the plane at Gate 26. It is not clear, however, whether this plane pushed back from the gate at all. I presume that the passengers were transferred to another plane via bus.

Sorry if I provide no sources etc., but this is the actual state of my research. You'll hear more from me on this subject.


I am interested to hear more. A few questions to add to the mix................

How does a NON-SCHEDULED Flight (It's Tuesday- no AA11)) get SCHEDULED?
How does a passenger buy a ticket on a flight that is not scheduled?


Has there ever been anyone on the P4T Forum who knew Capt. Ogonowski?
He was/is a real person, I presume. Has there been no published investigation into his background?

Remember ELREB would have this second plane at Gate 26 as IMAGINARY. Any comment on that possibility?
I do like this idea that the two Saudis fly an empty AA11 then land at unknown base having completed their part of the scenario.
Then the drone goes up.
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elreb
post Feb 15 2011, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE (DANDPT @ Feb 15 2011, 06:47 AM) *
Remember ELREB would have this second plane at Gate 26 as IMAGINARY. Any comment on that possibility?


I would suggest you look this stuff up yourself:

http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatis...paturesData.xml

Airport: Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH - Logan International (BOS)
Airline: American Airlines (AA)
Month(s): September
Day(s): 4
Year(s): 2001
Carrier Code Date (MM/DD/YYYY) Flight Number Tail Number Destination Airport Actual Departure Time
AA 09/04/2001 0011 UNKNOW LAX 00:00

Airport: Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH - Logan International (BOS)
Airline: American Airlines (AA)
Month(s): September
Day(s): 11
Year(s): 2001
Carrier Code Date (MM/DD/YYYY) Flight Number Tail Number Destination Airport Actual Departure Time
AA 09/11/2001 0011 UNKNOW LAX 00:00

Woody is talking about a Gate Reader but “We” have not seen the report

The Commission sent a request to American Airlines on February 3, 2004… In 2009, this response was released to the public.

American previously has provided the Commission with documents that indicate the approximate times that passengers boarded AA Flights 11 and the approximate check-in times at the main ticket counters at the respective airports. These documents are Kean Commission Bates number 004483-004518 (Flight 11) and are from American's Electronic Gate Reader ("EGR") records.

The EGR records do not provide the exact time of individual passenger check-in, the check-in location (ticket counter vs. departure gate), or the identification of the check-in agent.

The EGR system for a particular flight is manually initiated by the gate agent usually several hours prior to boarding. The initation of the EGR system is done at the discretion of the gate agent.


EDIT:

By David Abel, Globe Staff February 24, 2005

Today, on what would have been her husband's 54th birthday, Peggy Ogonowski will leave flowers at his empty grave in Dracut. John Ogonowski, the pilot and captain of American Airlines Flight 11, is one of more than 1,100 victims of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, whose remains have never been identified.
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amazed!
post Feb 16 2011, 10:12 PM
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Thanks Woody! thumbsup.gif
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elreb
post Feb 16 2011, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Feb 16 2011, 05:12 PM) *
Thanks Woody! thumbsup.gif

Thank you Woody (I tell you without providing evidence) Sorry if I provide no sources etc.
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woody
post Feb 20 2011, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE (DANDPT @ Feb 15 2011, 05:47 PM) *
I am interested to hear more. A few questions to add to the mix................

How does a NON-SCHEDULED Flight (It's Tuesday- no AA11)) get SCHEDULED?
How does a passenger buy a ticket on a flight that is not scheduled?


Has there ever been anyone on the P4T Forum who knew Capt. Ogonowski?
He was/is a real person, I presume. Has there been no published investigation into his background?

Remember ELREB would have this second plane at Gate 26 as IMAGINARY. Any comment on that possibility?
I do like this idea that the two Saudis fly an empty AA11 then land at unknown base having completed their part of the scenario.
Then the drone goes up.


Where did you get that AA11 never was scheduled on Tuesdays? I'm pretty certain it was, a look at the BTS would help, but its website is just getting overhauled at this moment.

Ogonowski was a real person, of course. He was NOT SCHEDULED to fly on 9/11, and he didn't want to either because he had two important dates on this day. But one day before, he called up the pilot who was scheduled für Flight 11 - his name is Walter Sorenson - and demanded from him to give him the flight, which was his right as the senior pilot.

The best explanation I have for this behavior is that he got a sudden call from the military to take part in Vigilant Guardian (or another exercise). Ogonowski was ex-navy.

For more information, go here:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/121085/1/

The second plane at Gate 26 is not imaginary at all. I'm in personal contact with someone who witnessed passengers boarding Flight 11 at Gate 26. He took a flight at an adjacent gate, at the same time. He was completey surprised when I told him that the official story has Flight 11 taking off from Gate 32!

I'm still providing no sources - this is for elreb - because this is meant to be preliminary info for people who trust me and know that I'm usually not talking nonsense. I'm working on the matter and promise you that the gate question is a potential giant smoking gun.
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Sergio
post Feb 20 2011, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (woody @ Feb 20 2011, 01:52 PM) *
Where did you get that AA11 never was scheduled on Tuesdays? I'm pretty certain it was, a look at the BTS would help, but its website is just getting overhauled at this moment.

Ogonowski was a real person, of course. He was NOT SCHEDULED to fly on 9/11, and he didn't want to either because he had two important dates on this day. But one day before, he called up the pilot who was scheduled für Flight 11 - his name is Walter Sorenson - and demanded from him to give him the flight, which was his right as the senior pilot.

The best explanation I have for this behavior is that he got a sudden call from the military to take part in Vigilant Guardian (or another exercise). Ogonowski was ex-navy.

For more information, go here:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/121085/1/

The second plane at Gate 26 is not imaginary at all. I'm in personal contact with someone who witnessed passengers boarding Flight 11 at Gate 26. He took a flight at an adjacent gate, at the same time. He was completey surprised when I told him that the official story has Flight 11 taking off from Gate 32!

I'm still providing no sources - this is for elreb - because this is meant to be preliminary info for people who trust me and know that I'm usually not talking nonsense. I'm working on the matter and promise you that the gate question is a potential giant smoking gun.

Hi Woody,
this is my first post here. Please allow me to say that I am a great supporter of your theories and I can't wait to read your next post in your blog. I consider you one of the most interesting researchers on 9/11 and I think your work was really valuable so far.

I have a question about Flight 198 which was, as you know, the flight coming from SFO who (allegedly) became later the infamous Flight 11.
Who was the pilot of that flight? Is there any information/evidence about?

Also, according to some accounts I found on the Internet, Flight 198 landed on gate 21 on 9/11. Last time I made a query on the BTS system, however, I could not find a wheels-on time. The scheduled arrival time was 6:24. On 9/10 Flight 198 landed on 6:03, but I found no information about the actual landing time on 9/11.

If you have any information about both questions I would really appreciate.

Regards
Sergio

This post has been edited by Sergio: Feb 20 2011, 01:31 PM
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amazed!
post Feb 20 2011, 09:27 PM
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Sorry if I missed it Woody, but is Sorensen still alive?

Having read that story about swapping flights, it almost sounds like the whole thing is contrived, though certainly it's plausible.

The plot thickens.... whistle.gif

Thanks for all your effort.
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elreb
post Feb 20 2011, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Feb 20 2011, 04:27 PM) *
Having read that story about swapping flights, it almost sounds like the whole thing is contrived...

My “BTS” is still working…post #33 shows no flight on 09/04/2001…a Tuesday…

A gate reader means nothing without a connection to the airframe in question

Where is the data to “Actual Departure Time”?

Sorry but until I see better information…I agree with “Amazed” on the contrived possibility…
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DANDPT
post Feb 21 2011, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE (woody @ Feb 20 2011, 10:52 AM) *
Where did you get that AA11 never was scheduled on Tuesdays? I'm pretty certain it was, a look at the BTS would help, but its website is just getting overhauled at this moment.

Ogonowski was a real person, of course. He was NOT SCHEDULED to fly on 9/11, and he didn't want to either because he had two important dates on this day. But one day before, he called up the pilot who was scheduled für Flight 11 - his name is Walter Sorenson - and demanded from him to give him the flight, which was his right as the senior pilot.

The best explanation I have for this behavior is that he got a sudden call from the military to take part in Vigilant Guardian (or another exercise). Ogonowski was ex-navy.

For more information, go here:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/121085/1/

The second plane at Gate 26 is not imaginary at all. I'm in personal contact with someone who witnessed passengers boarding Flight 11 at Gate 26. He took a flight at an adjacent gate, at the same time. He was completey surprised when I told him that the official story has Flight 11 taking off from Gate 32!

I'm still providing no sources - this is for elreb - because this is meant to be preliminary info for people who trust me and know that I'm usually not talking nonsense. I'm working on the matter and promise you that the gate question is a potential giant smoking gun.
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