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The Gate 26/32 question, Where did AA 11 departure?

Sergio
post Feb 21 2011, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Feb 21 2011, 12:06 AM) *
My “BTS” is still working…post #33 shows no flight on 09/04/2001…a Tuesday…


Hi elreb,
actually Flight 11 appears as a regular flight between BOS and LAX also on Tuesdays. I pasted below some data from BTS related to all Tuesdays since July 3rd to September 4, 2001.
The BTS system returns "UNKNOW" along with the usual 00:00 data for September 4 and July 10, 2001. Also, there are no data at all available for August 7, 2001 (I created the row because the system does not return anything at all for that date). In all other instances AA-11 appears to have flown on all Tuesdays before 9/11. I don't think we can conclude that AA-11 was not scheduled on Tuesdays.

The table is pretty messed up, I wasn't able to paste the HTML code, sorry for this.


Detailed Statistics Departures
Airport: Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH - Logan International (BOS)
Airline: American Airlines (AA)

Carrier Code Date (MM/DD/YYYY) Flight Number Tail Number Destination Airport Scheduled Departure Time Actual Departure Time Scheduled Elapsed Time (Minutes) Actual Elapsed Time (Minutes) Departure Delay (Minutes) Wheels-off Time Taxi-out Time (Minutes) Delay Carrier (Minutes) Delay Weather (Minutes) Delay National Aviation System (Minutes) Delay Security (Minutes) Delay Late Aircraft Arrival (Minutes)
AA 07/03/2001 11 N306AA LAX 07:45 07:52 366 350 7 08:04 12 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 07/10/2001 11 UNKNOW LAX 07:45 00:00 366 0 0 00:00 0 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 07/17/2001 11 N301AA LAX 07:45 07:59 366 369 14 08:20 21 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 07/24/2001 11 N303AA LAX 07:45 07:49 366 367 4 08:11 22 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 07/31/2001 11 N305AA LAX 07:45 08:09 366 351 24 08:25 16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 08/07/2001 11 N/A LAX N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 08/14/2001 11 N305AA LAX 07:45 07:41 366 378 -4 07:57 16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 08/21/2001 11 N305AA LAX 07:45 07:46 366 361 1 08:09 23 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 08/28/2001 11 N321AA LAX 07:45 07:44 366 356 -1 07:56 12 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
AA 09/04/2001 11 UNKNOW LAX 07:45 00:00 366 0 0 00:00 0 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

SOURCE: Bureau of Transportation Statistics
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DANDPT
post Feb 21 2011, 03:00 PM
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I got the idea that AA11 was not scheduled on Tuesday from the 2007 James Fetzer book, The 9/11 Conspiracy, The Scamming of America.
Chapter 6, titled, Some Holes in the Plane Stories, is written by Morgan Reynolds and Rick Rajter.
They state, "both American Flights 11 and 77 were not scheduled that day" and they give a footnote at the end of the chapter
It is http://oldsydimc.cat.org.au/front.php3?article_id=36354.
This link is broken.

I agree with you now that it is pretty certain that the flight was scheduled. The BTS shows it thru the summer months on Tuesdays at 7:45AM. Possibly they have drawn an incorrect conclusion due to the lack of information for 9/04 and 9/11 on BTS?

The personal information on Captain Ogonowski is very helpful.

NORTHWOODS
I cannot understand the logic in the following information in the 13 March 1962 Memorandum for the Secretary of Defense -Subject: Justification for the Military Intervention in Cuba (TS) I would encourage any comment on this point.

Page 8a. "At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers,all boarded under CAREFULLY PREPARED ALIASES. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone".

So we are to have corporeal passengers here. They are our people. They are to be given a ride to Elgin AFB where they will leave the plane and return to their normal routines. They are not harmed and they are alive. Who then has been lost in this terrible tradgedy? A passenger list has to be presented to the press. It is a list of assumed names, people who never existed, totally fabricated persona? Why would they expect this ploy to pass the most cursory scrutiny?

Good job with the new 9/11 Intercepted DVD!!
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elreb
post Feb 21 2011, 06:07 PM
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Great self-research…wonder if you could look up AA0077 too?

When we looked up the sale of flight 0011 [22332] we found all planes accounted for except this one…

So my question is/was…if a plane actually took off on 9-11…where is the record?

I also note that N334AA was never a normal flight 0011…

If I remember correctly, BTS record do not show this plane landing on 9-10…
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woody
post Feb 22 2011, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE (Sergio @ Feb 20 2011, 07:30 PM) *
Hi Woody,
this is my first post here. Please allow me to say that I am a great supporter of your theories and I can't wait to read your next post in your blog. I consider you one of the most interesting researchers on 9/11 and I think your work was really valuable so far.

I have a question about Flight 198 which was, as you know, the flight coming from SFO who (allegedly) became later the infamous Flight 11.
Who was the pilot of that flight? Is there any information/evidence about?

Also, according to some accounts I found on the Internet, Flight 198 landed on gate 21 on 9/11. Last time I made a query on the BTS system, however, I could not find a wheels-on time. The scheduled arrival time was 6:24. On 9/10 Flight 198 landed on 6:03, but I found no information about the actual landing time on 9/11.

If you have any information about both questions I would really appreciate.

Regards
Sergio



Thanks for your kind words, Sergio, very encouraging.

I haven't specific information on Flight 198, apart from the fact, that it indeed arrived at Gate 32 and was the same plane as FLight 11 (N334AA). I have statements of people working at the airport (packers etc.) clearly confirming this. Please understand if I don't release the source at this moment.

It arrived at 6:03 on 9/11. The reason it is listed under 9/10 is because it departed on that day. Obviously if a flight departs from the West coast in the evening and arrives at the East coast the next day, the arrival day is noted in the BTS database on the same day as the departure day (i.e. the day before). This is also the reason that you don't find arrival data for Flight 198 on 9/11 - there was no Flight 198 arriving at 9/12.

This has caused a lot of confusion among researchers, but it's definitely true. Check it with other west-east flights.
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woody
post Feb 22 2011, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Feb 21 2011, 03:27 AM) *
Sorry if I missed it Woody, but is Sorensen still alive?


Well, I don't know, but I think so. I have a photo from him, his wife, and his child, a young family. I think he was maybe 35 in 2001.
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elreb
post Feb 22 2011, 11:30 PM
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Woody Box,

I am sure you are one of the best researchers on this subject…

When I send an article to “Wild West” magazine; and all other published history websites… they demand…three levels of data….

We hope...You are most likely right…

REBrammer
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Sergio
post Feb 23 2011, 10:40 AM
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Hi Woody, first of all thank you very much you for taking the time to reply to my questions.

QUOTE (woody @ Feb 22 2011, 03:46 PM) *
I haven't specific information on Flight 198, apart from the fact, that it indeed arrived at Gate 32 and was the same plane as FLight 11 (N334AA). I have statements of people working at the airport (packers etc.) clearly confirming this. Please understand if I don't release the source at this moment.

No problem at all for the sources, of course I understand.
Actually my question about the pilot of Flight 198 was primarily intended to determine whether it was John Ogonowski or not. According to your sources, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 32 at 6:03, so we can assume that the same plane (N334AA) and the same pilot were used for the official Flight 11, i.e. the plane that departed on 7:45 from Gate 32 according to the 9/11 Commission Report. Of course, there was a lot of time from 6:03 to around 8 o'clock to move from Gate 32 to Gate 26, so the question will probably remain unanswered anyway. However, it could be interesting to know whether John Ogonowski was at the controls of Flight 198 or not. According to her wife Margareth, John Ogonowski "held the line". Now, leaving aside the conflicting statement from Walter Sorenson, it would be interesting to know whether this "line" included Flight 198 and then Flight 11 as a non-stop or not. In other words: where was John Ogonowski before allegedly piloting Flight 11?

Also, I have another question about the account from Karen Booth (quoted in your article).

QUOTE
Sitting in the waiting area trying to wake up with a cup of coffee, we watched as a ?red eye? flight arrived from Los Angeles at the next gate to the one from which our flight would leave. About 40 people disembarked from that flight and disappeared into the crowd. It was at that time that we noticed that the same aircraft would be turning around and heading back to Los Angeles at 7:45 am and would be known as American Airlines Flight #11.
We sat and watched as the waiting area began to fill with people waiting to depart on both the San Juan and Los Angeles flights. We noticed people gathering in the same waiting area who would board Flight #11 but did not pay much attention to their faces, except for two individuals.


I assume that this

Carrier Date Flight # Tail # Destination Sched. Departure Actual Departure Wheels-off Time Taxi-out Time (Minutes)
AA 09/11/2001 1019 N078AA SJU 06:55 07:00 07:14 14

was the flight that Karen Booth took. However, Flight 198 came from SFO, not from LAX. In this page from the airliner.net' forum a short analysis of Karen Booth's statement is provided. According to this source, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 21, not at Gate 32. Can you definitely assure that this information is false?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I think this is vital to keep your theory "clean".

QUOTE (woody @ Feb 22 2011, 03:46 PM) *
It arrived at 6:03 on 9/11. The reason it is listed under 9/10 is because it departed on that day. Obviously if a flight departs from the West coast in the evening and arrives at the East coast the next day, the arrival day is noted in the BTS database on the same day as the departure day (i.e. the day before). This is also the reason that you don't find arrival data for Flight 198 on 9/11 - there was no Flight 198 arriving at 9/12.

This has caused a lot of confusion among researchers, but it's definitely true. Check it with other west-east flights.

Thank you very much for this clarification, Woody. This explains a lot of things.

Regards
Sergio

This post has been edited by Sergio: Feb 23 2011, 10:40 AM
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amazed!
post Feb 24 2011, 10:20 PM
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The entire frigging story is a lie, from start to finish. Thus it is an EXTREMELY high probability that something was also faked at BOS.

No brainer.
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woody
post Feb 25 2011, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (Sergio @ Feb 23 2011, 03:40 PM) *
Hi Woody, first of all thank you very much you for taking the time to reply to my questions.


No problem at all for the sources, of course I understand.
Actually my question about the pilot of Flight 198 was primarily intended to determine whether it was John Ogonowski or not. According to your sources, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 32 at 6:03, so we can assume that the same plane (N334AA) and the same pilot were used for the official Flight 11, i.e. the plane that departed on 7:45 from Gate 32 according to the 9/11 Commission Report. Of course, there was a lot of time from 6:03 to around 8 o'clock to move from Gate 32 to Gate 26, so the question will probably remain unanswered anyway. However, it could be interesting to know whether John Ogonowski was at the controls of Flight 198 or not. According to her wife Margareth, John Ogonowski "held the line". Now, leaving aside the conflicting statement from Walter Sorenson, it would be interesting to know whether this "line" included Flight 198 and then Flight 11 as a non-stop or not. In other words: where was John Ogonowski before allegedly piloting Flight 11?

Also, I have another question about the account from Karen Booth (quoted in your article).



I assume that this

Carrier Date Flight # Tail # Destination Sched. Departure Actual Departure Wheels-off Time Taxi-out Time (Minutes)
AA 09/11/2001 1019 N078AA SJU 06:55 07:00 07:14 14

was the flight that Karen Booth took. However, Flight 198 came from SFO, not from LAX. In this page from the airliner.net' forum a short analysis of Karen Booth's statement is provided. According to this source, Flight 198 arrived at Gate 21, not at Gate 32. Can you definitely assure that this information is false?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I think this is vital to keep your theory "clean".


Thank you very much for this clarification, Woody. This explains a lot of things.

Regards
Sergio


Regarding gate 21 - I think you misinterpreted the message:

You read it like this:

arrived at the gate 21 minutes ahead of it's scheduled 6:24 arrival time at 6:03

But it should be read like this:

arrived at the gate 21 minutes ahead of it's scheduled 6:24 arrival time at 6:03 wink.gif


Regarding Ogonowski - I think I read a report that he drove to the airport in the morning of 9/11 - have to look...
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Sergio
post Feb 25 2011, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (woody @ Feb 25 2011, 11:04 AM) *
Regarding gate 21 - I think you misinterpreted the message:

You read it like this:

arrived at the gate 21 minutes ahead of it's scheduled 6:24 arrival time at 6:03

But it should be read like this:

arrived at the gate 21 minutes ahead of it's scheduled 6:24 arrival time at 6:03 wink.gif


Regarding Ogonowski - I think I read a report that he drove to the airport in the morning of 9/11 - have to look...

Hi Woody,
you're definitely right.

Thank you for helping me clarify this issue.

Regards
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tumetuestumefais...
post Feb 28 2011, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Feb 11 2011, 04:02 AM) *
0011 didn't fly on Tuesdays but 9-11 was a Tuesday...[BTS] records

Not true.
See this my BTS compilation from the downloaded BTS database or BTS-online - The flight 11 was apparently canceled the previous Tuesday, but otherwise the flight 11 is almost always scheduled on tuesdays before 911 in the BTS.

For the 911 planes/tailnumber/fleetnumber see here another my BTS compilation from the downloadable BTS for the months before.
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Sergio
post Feb 28 2011, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Feb 28 2011, 03:21 AM) *
Not true.
See this my BTS compilation from the downloaded BTS database or BTS-online - The flight 11 was apparently canceled the previous Tuesday, but otherwise the flight 11 is almost always scheduled on tuesdays before 911 in the BTS.

For the 911 planes/tailnumber/fleetnumber see here another my BTS compilation from the downloadable BTS for the months before.

Impressive work! I was patiently trying to do something similar on my own, you really saved me a lot of time. That's really a great job!

Just one note: I downloaded your document "BTS-911planes.xls". I noticed a small error at the very last row in the tab "N334".

DATE CARR. TAIL_No FL_No ORIG DEST CRS_DEP DEPART TAX_OUT W/OFF W/ON TAX_IN CRS_ARR ARRIV CANCLD DVERTD AIR_TIME
11/9/2001 AA UNKNOW 11 IAD LAX 745 NO ACTUAL RECORD WHATSOEVER

Actually the airport code "IAD" is definitely wrong here. Also, you should add this row as last tracked flight for N334AA:

DATE CARR. TAIL_No FL_No ORIG DEST CRS_DEP DEPART TAX_OUT W/OFF W/ON TAX_IN CRS_ARR ARRIV CANCLD DVERTD AIR_TIME
AA 09/10/2001 198 N334AA SFO 06:24 06:03 334 314 -21 05:52 11 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

As explained by Woody some posts above, this is actually Flight 198 arriving at Gate 32 in Boston, Logan early in the morning on September 11, 2001. Although the reported date is 9/10/2001, the plane took off from SFO on 21:49 on 9/10 and actually landed on BOS at 6:03 on the next day, i.e. 9/11. Apparently this detail created lot of confusion among researcher, however this above is the last tracked flight for N334AA before becoming the infamous AA11 on September 11.

Regards
Sergio
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SwingDangler
post Feb 28 2011, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (DANDPT @ Feb 19 2011, 06:00 PM) *
I got the idea that AA11 was not scheduled on Tuesday from the 2007 James Fetzer book, The 9/11

NORTHWOODS
I cannot understand the logic in the following information in the 13 March 1962 Memorandum for the Secretary of Defense -Subject: Justification for the Military Intervention in Cuba (TS) I would encourage any comment on this point.
Page 8a. "At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers,all boarded under CAREFULLY PREPARED ALIASES. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone".
So we are to have corporeal passengers here. They are our people. They are to be given a ride to Elgin AFB where they will leave the plane and return to their normal routines. They are not harmed and they are alive. Who then has been lost in this terrible tradgedy? A passenger list has to be presented to the press. It is a list of assumed names, people who never existed, totally fabricated persona? Why would they expect this ploy to pass the most cursory scrutiny?Good job with the new 9/11 Intercepted DVD!!


I think I might be able to answer this one.
1. The Aliases are the names released to the public. The real people seen boarding the plane seal the deal for the airport workers, eyewitnesses at the gates, security and surveillance, etc. "Yep, we saw them. We checked them in. We verified their identify. Nothing to investigate here. Move on." The employees at the airport have nothing to do with anything other than their daily routine.

2. The swap takes place, the plane is destroyed, the aliases are released to the public. No follow up by the public because at this point in our (my) nations history, the Government was viewed as an honorable entity and trustworthy. "If they tell us then it must be true!" Vietnam, JFK death details, Nixon etc. had not destroyed that image of the government yet.

3. The other plane with the real folks lands somewhere else. The real folks can be spooks, military, foreign nationals, mob members, heroin drug runners, etc. and return to work.
You fill in the blank on who they are or what happened to them. Meld back into the black/covert ops world that were being ran all over the world by our wondrous CIA.

4. The "dead" names never existed. Think about it. In the 1960's your getting your info from the newspapers and the TV. No internet to collaborate, discuss, share, and become more informed. No public access to airline/bts databases, etc. No Social Security online death certificate database access to check the details. If you can fake an alias, you can fake a relative of a dead

The internet was the tool that exposed the 9/11 deception, plain and simple. From there all it took were the honorable people that post here and those like them to take the pieces of the puzzle and put them together. It would have worked perfectly back then. Not so much now. Too bad the Government didn't put the 'Net kill switch' into existence on 9/11, eh?

I think a similar situation applies today. Airline workers can confirm "those were the people" that boarded the plane. I was there, I checked them in!
No video is released just in case some people's faces didn't truly match the names of their alias. You can still have, unfortunately, real victims involved and still pull the thing off. The swap takes place either at departure or shortly after wheels off time. One of my earliest reads was Woody Box's plane swap scenario that showed the holes in the radar gaps which and how near those were to military installations. Priceless!

Fill in the blanks using the mind of a black op operator....land the plane with the real folks on board, dispose of them, or if they are valuable they merge back into the murky waters of the covert operative world. How do you do this being a red blooded American? Use foreign nationals. It doesn't matter. Americans kill other Americans for a few dollars in the wallet.
Maybe you kill them on board. "Don't panic folks, you are participating in an exercise. In the back of your seat are the details contained in the folder. After you finish reading the descriptions, we will begin the scenario with the statement, "Remain calm. The plane has been hijacked. Have fun! Play your role. The guns and gunfire are stage props. They are NOT real. I repeat, NOT real. The fumes you will smell are simply potpourri based to simulate a gas attack. Breath deeply. By the way, your flight will and on time.
Oh no need to scream, after all this is just an exercise. Please do not use your cell phones. You won't be able to connect while in flight anyway. You CAN use the seat back phones, but you maybe disconnected due to the scenarios requirements. "

My two cents....
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SwingDangler
post Feb 28 2011, 03:39 PM
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For those that missed the History Common's entry on Mr. Ogonowski....

QUOTE
John A. Ogonowski, was born in Lowell, Massachusetts in 1951. John had a BS Degree in Nuclear Engineering and was an avid farmer. He had worked with the former Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, Gus Schumacher, to secure a plot of 150 acres of farmland on Marsh Hill Road in Dracut, through the APR Program.He was a pilot in the United States Air Force achieving rank of captain. He was a Vietnam veteran who went to pilot train-ing in Texas and was then assigned to Charleston AFBSC where he flew C-141. Captain John A. Ogonowski was a mem-ber of the Allied Pilot Association, and flew a Boeing 767 aircraft for American Airlines for 23 years. John was an active member in the Dracut Historical Society Board of Directors for the Massachusetts Farm Bureau, and the Board of Direc-tors for the Dracut Land Trust, Inc. http://www.umass.edu/fruitadvisor/berrynotes/bn1713.htm


QUOTE
Twelve days a month, Mr. Ogonowski, 50, flew transcontinental flights. On off days, he tended the farm's peach orchard, with acres set aside for corn, pumpkins and hay. After supper he often sat in his favorite chair, reading agricultural journals late into the evening.
Mr. Ogonowski joined the Air Force at the height of the Vietnam War. He flew C-141 transport planes, taking equipment to Asia, and sometimes flying back to the States carrying the bodies of American soldiers. He became a commercial pilot in 1979, and met a pretty flight attendant named Peggy, whom he later married.
The morning of Sept. 11, he left his wife at home, still in bed. It was already dawn as he turned down the road in his dusty green Chevy truck, to start his drive to Boston and to Logan International Airport. As he passed his uncle's nearby house, he tooted his horn. Mr. Ogonowski was the captain of Flight 11, the first plane to crash into the World Trade Center. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/03/national...3OGONOWSKI.html


Conflicting Reports-In this description, John DID NOT want to fly that day-
QUOTE
Ogonowski Legacy

TOOMEY: Last year we aired a story about a non-profit project that helps Southeast Asian refugees return to farming. One of the project's mentor farmers was the owner of White Gate Farm in Dracut, Massachusetts. His name was John Ogonowski. But he also had another job. He was a pilot for American Airlines. And on September 11th it was his plane, Flight 11, that struck the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Since that day, those involved in the farmer program say the work has been harder without John Ogonowski. But as Sean Cole of member station WBUR reports, they're determined to continue the project as a legacy to him.

COLE: John Ogonowski didn’t want to fly on September 11th. That was the day people were coming to tour the dozen acres of Asian crops flourishing amid the hay and pumpkins at White Gate Farm. Ogonowski and his wife, Peggy, had hosted such events before, and he told project director Hugh Joseph he would do his best to be around for this one.

JOSEPH (Ogonowski): Finally, I got a call the night before from Peggy saying, ‘Listen, John’s not back yet, but he got the final word that he has to fly tomorrow. [b]He can’t switch.[/b]’
[size="1"][/size]http://www.loe.org/shows/shows.htm?programID=02-P13-00037


And yet in this account, John DOES want to fly,
QUOTE
Georgetown Record reported: "American Airlines Captain Walter Sorenson of Groveland was scheduled to fly Flight #11 on Sept. 11, 2001. He was disappointed when he was replaced by Captain John Ogonowski, who had seniority over Sorenson and requested to fly that day. ... The last-minute change of pilots ... spared Sorenson's wife Sarah the untimely loss of a young husband."


Interesting to note that according to the Cole interview with John's family members...Joe, John's brother, is a full timer in the Air National Guard....
QUOTE
Jim Ogonowski, John’s brother, says it’s all he can do to keep the hay business in operation while maintaining his full-time job at the Air National Guard.
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Sergio
post Feb 28 2011, 04:01 PM
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QUOTE (SwingDangler @ Feb 28 2011, 04:39 PM) *
The morning of Sept. 11, he left his wife at home, still in bed. It was already dawn as he turned down the road in his dusty green Chevy truck, to start his drive to Boston and to Logan International Airport. As he passed his uncle's nearby house, he tooted his horn. Mr. Ogonowski was the captain of Flight 11, the first plane to crash into the World Trade Center. NY Times, December 3, 2001

Great. I guess this was the report Woody was talking about above.
Now we can definitely conclude that John Ogonowski was not at the controls of Flight 198 coming from SFO on 9/11.
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DeanHartwell
post Mar 13 2011, 08:54 PM
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Here are some facts I uncovered about Flight 11 in my recent book:

Der Spiegel magazine wrote that eyewitnesses recalled passengers waiting near Gate 26 around 7:30 AM
Gate 26 was likely too far for passengers to get to in 15 minutes for the supposed take-off at 7:45 AM at Gate 32.
Gate 19 was close enough for these passengers to get to for a later flight (Flight 175)
Flight 11 was only sighted by the pilot of...Flight 175!
The debris at the World Trade Center has never been matched to Flight 11.
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JackD
post Mar 17 2011, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE (DeanHartwell @ Mar 11 2011, 11:54 PM) *
Here are some facts I uncovered about Flight 11 in my recent book:

Der Spiegel magazine wrote that eyewitnesses recalled passengers waiting near Gate 26 around 7:30 AM
Gate 26 was likely too far for passengers to get to in 15 minutes for the supposed take-off at 7:45 AM at Gate 32.
Gate 19 was close enough for these passengers to get to for a later flight (Flight 175)
Flight 11 was only sighted by the pilot of...Flight 175!
The debris at the World Trade Center has never been matched to Flight 11.


Great to hear about book.

Gate 26 and 32 are not terribly far apart in terminal B, unless numbering has been changed in last 10 years.
It is important to note your assertion "No debris from WTC matched to AA11 N334AA" -- which should raise eyebrows.
Still, the plane and alleged passengers are indeed gone -- and the mystery of which persons in fact did board AA11 is still unclear.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/whereWeFly/...erminal_BOS.jsp
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DeanHartwell
post Mar 17 2011, 04:22 PM
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Thank you, Jack.

The distance between Gates 26 and 32 is only part of the issue. The other part is how 69 passengers (and 9 crewmembers) could get from Gate 26 at 7:30 AM to Gate 32 and be completely seated on the plane for the take-off at 7:45 AM without attracting much attention.

Like the question of how Lee Harvey Oswald could have gotten from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building to the second floor in about ninety seconds, the “trier of fact” (us) must consider the details involved along the way. In the case at hand, it is hard to figure how so many people could hurry through the airport in such a short period of time when in all likelihood the people would all move at different speeds, there would be plenty of people in the way, the plane at Gate 32 would have to be ready to go, etc.

As for where the Flight 11 passengers went, I present ideas in my book. When I have made enough posts, I am considering starting a new topic for that.


QUOTE (JackD @ Mar 16 2011, 09:10 PM) *
Great to hear about book.

Gate 26 and 32 are not terribly far apart in terminal B, unless numbering has been changed in last 10 years.
It is important to note your assertion "No debris from WTC matched to AA11 N334AA" -- which should raise eyebrows.
Still, the plane and alleged passengers are indeed gone -- and the mystery of which persons in fact did board AA11 is still unclear.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/whereWeFly/...erminal_BOS.jsp
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DANDPT
post Mar 17 2011, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE (DeanHartwell @ Mar 17 2011, 04:22 PM) *
Thank you, Jack.

The distance between Gates 26 and 32 is only part of the issue. The other part is how 69 passengers (and 9 crewmembers) could get from Gate 26 at 7:30 AM to Gate 32 and be completely seated on the plane for the take-off at 7:45 AM without attracting much attention.

Like the question of how Lee Harvey Oswald could have gotten from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building to the second floor in about ninety seconds, the “trier of fact” (us) must consider the details involved along the way. In the case at hand, it is hard to figure how so many people could hurry through the airport in such a short period of time when in all likelihood the people would all move at different speeds, there would be plenty of people in the way, the plane at Gate 32 would have to be ready to go, etc.

As for where the Flight 11 passengers went, I present ideas in my book. When I have made enough posts, I am considering starting a new topic for that.



I am hoping to read comments from Woody on these posts. He has spoken to eyewitnesses who were at the terminal.
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Obwon
post Mar 20 2011, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (DANDPT @ Feb 13 2011, 05:57 PM) *
This is an important point.
The 1962 CIA Operation Northwoods suggestion is also for a
NON-SCHEDULED flight. This is necessary to keep any random
passengers from trying to board and to have total control of the passenger list.
Then Northwoods advises ....."all passengers are boarded under carefully prepared aliases".
So we've got a drone aircraft at Gate 26 and we are boarding passengers at Gate 32.
Both aircraft are AA11.
Everything between these gates and the North Tower are attempts at obfuscation.
Now we need to carefully examine the passenger list.
Please tell me how to find information on that topic.
I'm having trouble navigating around in this forum as I am a NEWBIE here.
Thank You, Dan


We're forgetting, of course, that the CIA and FBI has been creating fictitious people for many decades now. They usually do it to provide cover for their agents, but that "skill" is highly transportable to this matter, wouldn't you think?

They create people along with histories that can actually pass more than even superficial checks. They could easily create all the passengers they needed to fill the planes, as well as create relatives for them. Go back a few years and see how many put in for the offered compensation settlements. But wait, that won't work because they can create those records too. I do remember, reading somewhere that very few passengers families filed for the compensation settlement offer. But that was such a glaring omission that I assume it's been corrected by now.

By mixing a few real people among the fake ones, they create a nightmare for anyone trying to follow the trail. I wonder why they didn't do something with the BTS records as well.
I guess "to err is human" is all.

Obwon
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