The Gate 26/32 question, Where did AA 11 departure? Options

[amazed!]

I agree Obwon--they've been generating identities for decades at least.

As I recall, and I might be wrong, there was only 1 "family" that did NOT accept the out of court settlement.

I might have that confused with a family at WTC though?

[Obwon]

I agree Obwon--they've been generating identities for decades at least.

As I recall, and I might be wrong, there was only 1 "family" that did NOT accept the out of court settlement.

I might have that confused with a family at WTC though?

Of course, by now, they've probably caught up with this and created some more relatives and listed them as having taken compensation, but here's how it stood in 2008 for one researcher:

Excerpts from the site at:
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blo...08/08/23/p28037

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As everyone who is involved in exposing the 9-11 cover-up knows, nothing concerning 9-11 is as it seems. Whether it's the magic jet that our government told us crashed into the Pentagon, the obvious missing jet at Shanksville (Flight 93), the three perfect demolitions of the World Trade Center towers, or the fact that Arab hijackers are still alive and their supposed ring leader Osama bin Laden has the ability to change his facial features at will. Nothing, I repeat, nothing about the government/controlled media version of 9-11 makes any sense.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition, I had just discovered Black Op Radio earlier in the year and found an interesting show in their archives (# 156) on which Ellen and Mr. Berg appeared as guests. This may be the single biggest point concerning 9-11, and hopefully the last nail in the coffin of our government's lies. During this broadcast, Mrs. Mariani said that she was the only relative of all the passengers that died on Flight 175 that crashed into the South Tower. Her lawyer, Phil Berg, repeated this statement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9-11 Victims Compensation Fund

This is where our government opened up the Treasury and gave family members of those who lost their lives that day lots of money. In return, these families were basically told to shut up about anything else concerning 9-11. (Considering all the lies surrounding this horrific event, you can see why.)

At this point there is one thing we should never forget, and that is how powerful the notion of human greed is. Remember this concept as you read the number of victims whose family members sought compensation.

The names of the victims can be found on the CNN website.

Here are the results:

Flight 11: of the 92 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 20 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 20 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams

=======================================

Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 64 people, only five on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

William Caswell
Eddie Dillard
Ian Gray
John Sammartino
Leonard Taylor

=======================================

Flight 175: of the 65 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 18 are listed in the SSDI (28%)

Of these 65 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Michael C. Tarrou
Gloria Debarrera
Timothy Ward

=======================================

Flight 93: of the 45 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 6 are listed in the SSDI (13%)

Of these 45 people, none are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

No one

=======================================

Have you noticed anything strange yet? Of the passengers and crew of Flight 11, 77, 175 & 93, only 22%, 22%, 28%, 13% respectively are in the SSDI.

Remember human greed? Of the 266 people that we were told died on these jets, only 11 relatives applied for compensation. Can you believe that not a single relative from Flight 93 applied for compensation? I can't. Were all the relatives of the victims so rich that they weren't eligible to receive compensation? No, that's not it. (The minimum federal award was $250,000, and the average pay-out was about $1.8 million. The recipients only had to make agreement: they couldn’t sue the airlines.)

You should also know that most lawyers told their clients to take the money and run (which is what most lawyers would do - take the sure money). Ellen Mariani clearly elaborated on this point during her appearance on the radio show mentioned above.

Finally, during the past week, thanks to Lisa Guliani's insatiable quest for the truth, the 9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report has come to light.

9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report
http://www.usdoj.gov/final_report.pdf (7.79MB)

Oddly, but consistent with everything concerning 9-11, the actual complete list of the people who benefited has been omitted from this report. Even without this, it does contain an interesting fact. According to the report, 98% of all the people who suffered a loss on 9-11 took the fund money. The average payment was $1.8 million.

But here's where it gets strange. According to the government, here are the number of people who accepted the compensation fund:

Out of a total of 92 people on Flight 11, only 65 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 65 people on Flight 175, only 46 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 64 people on Flight 77, only 33 accepted the 9-11 fund (52%)
Out of a total of 45 people on Flight 93, only 25 accepted the 9-11 fund (56%)

Does any of this seem a little odd to you? Or is it possible that not only were the jets on 9-11 magical, but their passengers as well?

So there you have it; yet another glaring 9-11 inconsistency - just maybe the biggest of them all?

-###-

August 23, 2008 Skeptically yours, Vincent Sammartino
http://www.wingtv.net/thornarticles/911passengerlist.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blo...08/08/23/p28037
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The google search string I used: "911 passenger compensation"
it pulls up plenty.


Happy Hunting
Obwon
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[DANDPT]

Of course, by now, they've probably caught up with this and created some more relatives and listed them as having taken compensation, but here's how it stood in 2008 for one researcher:

Excerpts from the site at:
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blo...08/08/23/p28037

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As everyone who is involved in exposing the 9-11 cover-up knows, nothing concerning 9-11 is as it seems. Whether it's the magic jet that our government told us crashed into the Pentagon, the obvious missing jet at Shanksville (Flight 93), the three perfect demolitions of the World Trade Center towers, or the fact that Arab hijackers are still alive and their supposed ring leader Osama bin Laden has the ability to change his facial features at will. Nothing, I repeat, nothing about the government/controlled media version of 9-11 makes any sense.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition, I had just discovered Black Op Radio earlier in the year and found an interesting show in their archives (# 156) on which Ellen and Mr. Berg appeared as guests. This may be the single biggest point concerning 9-11, and hopefully the last nail in the coffin of our government's lies. During this broadcast, Mrs. Mariani said that she was the only relative of all the passengers that died on Flight 175 that crashed into the South Tower. Her lawyer, Phil Berg, repeated this statement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9-11 Victims Compensation Fund

This is where our government opened up the Treasury and gave family members of those who lost their lives that day lots of money. In return, these families were basically told to shut up about anything else concerning 9-11. (Considering all the lies surrounding this horrific event, you can see why.)

At this point there is one thing we should never forget, and that is how powerful the notion of human greed is. Remember this concept as you read the number of victims whose family members sought compensation.

The names of the victims can be found on the CNN website.

Here are the results:

Flight 11: of the 92 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 20 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 20 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams

=======================================

Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 64 people, only five on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

William Caswell
Eddie Dillard
Ian Gray
John Sammartino
Leonard Taylor

=======================================

Flight 175: of the 65 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 18 are listed in the SSDI (28%)

Of these 65 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Michael C. Tarrou
Gloria Debarrera
Timothy Ward

=======================================

Flight 93: of the 45 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 6 are listed in the SSDI (13%)

Of these 45 people, none are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

No one

=======================================

Have you noticed anything strange yet? Of the passengers and crew of Flight 11, 77, 175 & 93, only 22%, 22%, 28%, 13% respectively are in the SSDI.

Remember human greed? Of the 266 people that we were told died on these jets, only 11 relatives applied for compensation. Can you believe that not a single relative from Flight 93 applied for compensation? I can't. Were all the relatives of the victims so rich that they weren't eligible to receive compensation? No, that's not it. (The minimum federal award was $250,000, and the average pay-out was about $1.8 million. The recipients only had to make agreement: they couldn’t sue the airlines.)

You should also know that most lawyers told their clients to take the money and run (which is what most lawyers would do - take the sure money). Ellen Mariani clearly elaborated on this point during her appearance on the radio show mentioned above.

Finally, during the past week, thanks to Lisa Guliani's insatiable quest for the truth, the 9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report has come to light.

9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report
http://www.usdoj.gov/final_report.pdf (7.79MB)

Oddly, but consistent with everything concerning 9-11, the actual complete list of the people who benefited has been omitted from this report. Even without this, it does contain an interesting fact. According to the report, 98% of all the people who suffered a loss on 9-11 took the fund money. The average payment was $1.8 million.

But here's where it gets strange. According to the government, here are the number of people who accepted the compensation fund:

Out of a total of 92 people on Flight 11, only 65 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 65 people on Flight 175, only 46 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 64 people on Flight 77, only 33 accepted the 9-11 fund (52%)
Out of a total of 45 people on Flight 93, only 25 accepted the 9-11 fund (56%)

Does any of this seem a little odd to you? Or is it possible that not only were the jets on 9-11 magical, but their passengers as well?

So there you have it; yet another glaring 9-11 inconsistency - just maybe the biggest of them all?

-###-

August 23, 2008 Skeptically yours, Vincent Sammartino
http://www.wingtv.net/thornarticles/911passengerlist.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blo...08/08/23/p28037
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The google search string I used: "911 passenger compensation"
it pulls up plenty.


Happy Hunting
Obwon
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

And just where do you think Captain John Ogonowski might be at the present time?

[Obwon]

And just where do you think Captain John Ogonowski might be at the present time?

That is not a fair question. It is beyond the scope of any and all theories that attempt to deal with the question of whether or not 9-11 was really an attack by foreign religious fundamentalist, or a false flag attack, designed and approved by some unknown persons inside the U.S. gov't, or otherwise on "this side of the ocean".

The better question, that should be asked, is; Did he arrive at the crash site on the plane the officials say he did? My theory says no. To explain how I arrive at this idea, is something I'll have to post in the "Alternative Theories" section. Look for it soon. But there is where you will be able to help me eliminate or affirm key points.

May I hope to welcome you there soon? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/pilotfly.gif)
Obwon

[DANDPT]

That is not a fair question. It is beyond the scope of any and all theories that attempt to deal with the question of whether or not 9-11 was really an attack by foreign religious fundamentalist, or a false flag attack, designed and approved by some unknown persons inside the U.S. gov't, or otherwise on "this side of the ocean".

The better question, that should be asked, is; Did he arrive at the crash site on the plane the officials say he did? My theory says no. To explain how I arrive at this idea, is something I'll have to post in the "Alternative Theories" section. Look for it soon. But there is where you will be able to help me eliminate or affirm key points.

May I hope to welcome you there soon? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/pilotfly.gif)
Obwon

OBWON-

I've settled the question of the origin of the 9-11 attacks for my personal satisfaction long ago. 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

I'm trying to move along here.

"Did he arrive at the crash site on the on the plane the officials say he did?" I agree with you here. I would say NO.

Did he fly out of Logan on 9/11 on another, specially prepared aircraft, not N334AA? (from Gate 32) I'm thinking MAYBE/PROBABLY.

Did he and the crew knowingly play a role in the hi-jack exercise? I THINK THERE IS GOOD EVIDENCE FOR IT.

Where do you think Captain John Ogonowski and co-pilot Mc Guinness landed/or not- landed? WE HAVE NOT A CLUE.

If you are going to posit the disappearance of "imaginary passengers"; you also have to explain the disappearance of the real persons too.

Fair Question?

Looking forward to your posts and advancements on these issues.

Thanks, Dan

[Sergio]

Did he and the crew knowingly play a role in the hi-jack exercise? I THINK THERE IS GOOD EVIDENCE FOR IT.

May I ask you where did you get such good evidence from?

This post has been edited by Sergio: Mar 24 2011, 02:51 PM

[DANDPT]

May I ask you where did you get such good evidence from?

Sergio-

I am suspicious of the fact that Ogonowski took the flight at all given the conflict with the activities planned at the farm in Dracut for 9/11.
(Was he the lead pilot for the exercise?)

I am extremely suspicious of the Betty Ong phone transcript. Does it sound genuine to you? She needed a couple of acting classes before being thrust into that role!

The ongoing "Operation Vigilant Guardian " Drill simulated hijacked planes. We know that for certain.

AA11 was a real plane pretending to be hijacked as part of the exercise.

Do you recall that when Lt. Col. Deskins at NORAD control took the call from Boston Center re:AA11, her first words were, "It must be part of the exercise!"?

That was a correct guess on her part ; I do believe.

Thanks, Dan

[Sergio]

Wait Dan, wait.

I am suspicious of the fact that Ogonowski took the flight at all given the conflict with the activities planned at the farm in Dracut for 9/11.
(Was he the lead pilot for the exercise?)

I may agree with you that some suspects point to this, however we are far from calling this evidence. All we can do at the moment is speculation. If you followed the thread, what we know so far is that John Ogonowski was not at the controls of Flight 198 coming from SFO. According to an account, he left Dracut early on 9/11 morning, drove his car to Logan as usual, then we have no clue. He may have embarked as pilot of the flight that took off from Gate 32 (wheels off time: 7:58), he may not. That he was the lead pilot of an exercise on AA11 is a suspect, but is not an evidence. Also, we would need confirmation from Walter Sorenson about his own account given as early as 2001 that John Ogonowski himself asked to fly that day, which is in blatant conflict with the account given by Margareth Ogonowski, that her husband would not like to fly on 9/11, but ended up "holding the line".

I am extremely suspicious of the Betty Ong phone transcript. Does it sound genuine to you? She needed a couple of acting classes before being thrust into that role!

It does not seem genuine at all to me, but this does not mean that we know where Betty Ong was at the time of the alleged mobile call. I speculate that that call was not real at all (just a recorded track created though a speech synthesizer or something similar). Another possibility is that the call was real, but Betty Ong was not flying on any real plane, but still on the ground (at Logan or somewhere else) as part of an hijack exercise. Again, we have questions unanswered and a lot of speculation, but we lack evidence.

AA11 was a real plane pretending to be hijacked as part of the exercise.

I tend to endorse this theory. The flight that took off from Gate 32 could be actually part of an exercise. Whether John Ogonowski and Betty Ong were on that flight or not we don't know. Also, we have evidence that at least some passengers embarked later on Gate 26. What happened later with them is one more question without an answer.

[Obwon]

OBWON-

I've settled the question of the origin of the 9-11 attacks for my personal satisfaction long ago. 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

I'm trying to move along here.

"Did he arrive at the crash site on the on the plane the officials say he did?" I agree with you here. I would say NO.

Did he fly out of Logan on 9/11 on another, specially prepared aircraft, not N334AA? (from Gate 32) I'm thinking MAYBE/PROBABLY.

Did he and the crew knowingly play a role in the hi-jack exercise? I THINK THERE IS GOOD EVIDENCE FOR IT.

Where do you think Captain John Ogonowski and co-pilot Mc Guinness landed/or not- landed? WE HAVE NOT A CLUE.

If you are going to posit the disappearance of "imaginary passengers"; you also have to explain the disappearance of the real persons too.

Fair Question?

Looking forward to your posts and advancements on these issues.

Thanks, Dan

Thanks Dan:

You are asking a very good and important question, but it's not one that needs to be answered in order for the investigation of the impacts to go forward.

Yes... I would have to agree that it would be a fair question, IF:
1. We knew that he was actually in Boston that day.
2. That he was, in fact the pilot, flying any aircraft on that day.
3. That he actually even came to the airport, was not spirited off or
lured to some other place for "capture".

What we are left to deal with first and foremost, is the major components that have been stated by official and/or mechanical means, to have left a supposedly verifiable evidence trail that day. Thus we follow the 100 ton aircraft and their data points that must be there.
For many of which we have more than one indication of as "corroboration".

The pilots and passengers are a "special case" that is outside the scope of the events, once the planes they are supposed to have been aboard, are eliminated as the source of the "impacts". Thus, we don't know who was on those planes, nor do we know where they went. But that doesn't matter, in this frame, because it isn't necessary, to prove that there were any passengers or pilots at all.

In short: If a magician pulls a rabbit out of an empty hat, do we really need to know where the rabbit came from, in order to prove that a rabbit cannot be pulled from an empty hat?
So the data on the passengers and pilots are of the same order of question. Trying to force a connection, with the idea that if one fails to locate the passengers and crew, one cannot then fashion ideas about the impacts, jumps to the false conclusion, that science cannot be used to examine specific events, without being expected to explain other events that are seemingly connected.

Therefore:

My question is: How could aircraft have impacted the buildings, given the data we have been given?

While:

Your question appears to be: How could we know that planes did not impact the buildings, if we don't know where the passengers and crew went?

I know you're not asking this question in reality, but it's the question that is implied by what you've said.

As far as the pilots and/or crew, having played a role in 9-11, we can't yet know that, without knowing if they were even involved in any way. The "authorities" have control of the records of things that are not on display here, like the recorded flights. We do know that over the years, they have become ever more adroit at creating records of things that have not happened and inserting them into the official records stream. Thus, such records cannot be relied upon at all.

All we can say is: The official records released, do not support the official claims that have been made. The records they and the media have supplied, in support of the official story, actually show that no planes crashed into the towers, because the data those records contains, does not result in such events.

Obwon

[Obwon]

Sergio-

I am suspicious of the fact that Ogonowski took the flight at all given the conflict with the activities planned at the farm in Dracut for 9/11.
(Was he the lead pilot for the exercise?)

I am extremely suspicious of the Betty Ong phone transcript. Does it sound genuine to you? She needed a couple of acting classes before being thrust into that role!

The ongoing "Operation Vigilant Guardian " Drill simulated hijacked planes. We know that for certain.

AA11 was a real plane pretending to be hijacked as part of the exercise.

Do you recall that when Lt. Col. Deskins at NORAD control took the call from Boston Center re:AA11, her first words were, "It must be part of the exercise!"?

That was a correct guess on her part ; I do believe.

Thanks, Dan

However: If flight 11 never impacted the north tower, we don't know where the good captain went or what his "mission" was if anything. Therefore we can't know if there was anything out of order for him to even know or be party too.

The "proper authorities" have the power to order civilian aircraft around the skies for various reasons, so anything at all is possible for any of these flights. You can be sure that if any orders, contrary to what we're officially told, were given, these "authorities" have taken great pains to ensure that we'll never find out what they were.

Obwon

[woody]

Great. I guess this was the report Woody was talking about above.
Now we can definitely conclude that John Ogonowski was not at the controls of Flight 198 coming from SFO on 9/11.

New info on Flight 198: the captain's name was Douglas Balmain, the first officer was Lynn Howland. After the flight, she met Mohammed Atta (?) in the terminal. Very interesting FBI interview.

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2011/04/pi...th-atta-at.html

[amazed!]

Thanks for the latest stuff Woody! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

[Sergio]

New info on Flight 198: the captain's name was Douglas Balmain, the first officer was Lynn Howland. After the flight, she met Mohammed Atta (?) in the terminal. Very interesting FBI interview.

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2011/04/pi...th-atta-at.html

Thank you, Woody.
As usual, a very interesting and intriguing article.

Sergio

[9/11 Justice Now]

This should prove to be very interesting "oh lord please forgive me for posting links to 911blogger for i have sinned"

I dont know what to make of this maybe someone with a better knowledge of these things should check it out, plz do not
delete my post thankyou.

Official GPS Data Reveal Superior Aviation GPS Service Provided To WTC & Pentagon During 9/11 Attacks
http://911blogger-bans-truth.com/news/2011-05-31/offi...ing-911-attacks

Rather i would think the information is more interesting than the idiots who have relentlessly attacked us, so what does this all mean? Anyone know?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

[amazed!]

The link does not work for me.

[9/11 Justice Now]

The link does not work for me.

.

Doesn't matter mate just type in the website.
address into your browser and you will see the
Article right near the top of the webpage or copy
and paste the title into google to read the article.

[amazed!]

Read the article quickly. Assuming that it's true and accurate, I'm not surprised in the least.

I remember the SA--Selective Availability I think is the term. Early in the GPS era the military could turn it off or on at will. As I recall, some years back they decided to leave it in the most accurate position full time. Whether that was SA 'on' or 'off' I can't remember.

My question after reading the article is whether this 'augmented GPS' can be controlled by the military, or was it just the result of the ideal geometry of the satellite positions on any given day?