Radar Altitude Confirms True Altitude, Too high to hit light poles/pentagon
Feb 16 2007, 05:59 PM
Joined: 13-August 06
Member No.: 1
We have recently been able to decode the additional data 'slipped' into our package through the FOIA (Thanks UT!).
The main purpose of getting this data decoded was to confirm or contradict our initial altitude findings regarding True altitude as shown in the animation and original csv file which can be seen in Chapter Two.
The last recordings of radar altitude shown in the newly decoded .fdr file is as follows.
In the spirit of keeping this simple, we will use the argument side of the analysis prior to us getting the decode of the raw file.
Many of you have read our analysis regarding the altitude being too high based on True Altitude. However, the argument side says that there could be up to 2 seconds error and possible lag due to instrument error.
Quote as follows from a self-proclaimed anonymous internet FDR Expert.
However, A radar altimeter presents no lag. The 273 feet you see above is a hard number above the ground (or any object you are flying over).
Now we will disregard when it was recorded and use the argument side that there could be 'up to' 2 seconds missing (ie. the 273' was recorded 2 seconds prior to the pentagon wall).
Backing the data out from the pentagon wall 2 seconds based on speed, the aircraft is at this location...
(again using the govt loyalist argument of the south flight path)
The ground elevation at this point is ~60 feet above sea level. Add that to 273 and you get 333 feet above sea level. (this figure does not match True altitude at this point because we are using the govt loyalist hypothetical that 273 was recorded 'up to' 2 seconds out from the pentagon.. we are using their argument of the largest margin for error).
The elevation of the 'hole' in the pentagon is 33 (ground elevation of pentagon, established) plus 12' (center of hole) = 45 feet above sea level.
When we subtract 333 from 45, we get a number of 288 feet above the 'impact hole' at a spot 2 seconds away from impact.
Divide 288 by 2(seconds) and this aircraft would need a steady linear descent rate of 8,640 feet per minute to impact the hole in the pentagon (remember, this is using the argument that 273 was recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact). This is in direct conflict with the DoD video showing an object level across the lawn.
Now, lets look at the light poles.
We will again use the govt loyalist argument that the height of the poles was 66(ground elevation, although the USGS shows 43) + 40 feet for pole height (liberal figure) = 106 feet.
Based on forward speed, the light poles were ~1 second from impact (its more like 1.3 for poles one and two, but we're giving the govt loyalists every chance possible here).
So, that being the case, if we were using the 273 AGL altitude as recorded by the radar altimeter 2 seconds from the pentagon wall, that would make the 273 agl recorded 1 second prior to the poles. The top of pole height was 106 feet above sea level. The "2 second recording" was 333 feet above sea level. Subtact the two and you get 227 feet this aircraft would have had to descend in order to hit the very top of pole 1 within one second(again, using liberal numbers for pole height... its actually more than 227).
To descend 227 feet in one second, this aircraft would need 13,620 feet per minute dive to clip the poles. And then level off from that dive to be level with the pentagon lawn.
To level off from that dive, the aircraft would need to pull (227/32 (ft/sec, accel due to gravity) =7+1G's (earths gravity) = <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>8</span> total G's for 1 second sustained to be level with the lawn.
There is no indication anywhere in ther FDR file showing this aircraft pulling 8 G's sustained during the last second, Matter of fact, it shows less than 1 G.. Not to mention, aircraft structural limitation would not let it get that high. IE. The wings would rip off and/or High speed buffet/stall.
Using the govt loyalist own argument of 'up to' 2 seconds of error, we can see this aircraft was too high to hit the poles and the pentagon.
However, using the actual data that was recorded 1 second prior to the pentagon wall as provided directly from the NTSB (and not making excuses like there may be 'up to 2 seconds missing'), it is further in conflict with the govt story.
"If his true altitude is accurate, he may be on to something" - Anonymous Self-Proclaimed FDR Expert and Govt Loyalist.
(if you want to repost this whole article, pictures and all, hit the quote button and copy and past the quote to your new post in another forum. Spread it everywhere if you like).
Jul 18 2007, 10:22 PM
Joined: 13-August 06
Member No.: 1
added here so its easier for me to find...
Claims of 'debunk' -
1) The FDR did not record the final seconds of Flight 77. There is up to 2 seconds missing.
2) The .csv file is not meant to be analyzed forensically, it is meant to be plotted.
3) The .csv data is not raw FDR data. It is not even serial bitstream data.
4) The .csv data is not meant to be broken down into 1/8th seconds and analyzed.
5) The .csv data, properly interpreted, says that there are N samples during this particular frame.
6) Without the frame description, we do not know when in a frame any one sample occurred.
7) Without the frame description, we have lost the measurement timestamps, so the time a particular word was recorded does not necessarily equate with when it was measured.
8) Given these time-shift errors, any mathematics that uses more than one data-point runs the risk of assuming that two numbers occurred at the same time, when they didnít.
9) Many of these errors can be corrected, greatly, with the frame descriptor.
10) Any analysis must account for (or justify ignoring) these issues in order to draw any valid conclusions.
Our reply -
1. Radar Altitude Confirms too high using Govt Loylist argument of 2 seconds missing
2. We have a plotted animation produced by the NTSB using the FDR, Radar and ATC Transcripts. Cover letter and evelope here.
3.Raw data has been decoded. See number 1.
4.See number 2
6. We have the frame descriptor
7.See number 6
8.See number 2
9.See number 6
10.see all of the above
An anonymous govt loyalist of the official story refuses to debate us thus far in a proper venue and keeps repeating the word "debunked" without being able to back up his information.
Bottom line - An anonymous, self-proclaimed "FDR Expert" tells half truths and thinks he knows more than the professionals at the NTSB.
|Lo-Fi Version||Time is now: 23rd May 2013 - 06:21 PM|