A Question For Us Radar Controllers Options

[ivanvedder]

Hy, this is an italian Atcer, I have a question for all the radar controllers here:
In 2001 (in case of a plane with transponder off) did you have to select a different setting on your radar to see his primary response?
this is what the 9/11 commission says:

"On 9/11, the terrorists turned off the transponders on three of the four hijacked aircraft. With its transponder off, it is possible, though more difficult, to track an aircraft by its primary radar returns. But unlike transponder data, primary radar returns do not show the aircraft's identity and altitude. Controllers at centers rely so heavily on transponder signals that they usually do not display primary radar returns on their radar scopes. But they can change the configuration of their scopes so they can see primary radar returns. They did this on 9/11 when the transponder signals for three of the aircraft disappeared."

Is there any guy (especially from Boston or New York, Cleveland, and Indianapolis) who can answer?
In the italian sistem if an aircraft loses the transponder signal (or if we have an a/c without it) we see directly (with no changings of configurations) a specific simbol (+) with the speed indication.
thanks for your help
ciao!

This post has been edited by ivanvedder: Feb 21 2007, 09:22 AM

[Robin Hordon]

To All..

Thanks for getting me to the entire set of "flight paths" for all four flights.

Although I have some quiet Qs in the pipeline to the inside, I can tell you all my impressions so far.

I skip around a bit from flight-to-flight as I cross check stuff...

There is absolutely NO REASON that the flight path of UA175 needed to be displayed on a Newark, or New York Tracon radar scope display. That aircraft was in emergency conditions at high altitude when still being worked, and monitored by ZNY, and it was tracked by the enroute RDP computer which means that it woud look like the presentation shown for UA93.

Same story for UA93 when it was shown on the PIT Tracon radar display.

Also, the radar tracks shown for UA175 as seen on the New York Tracon radar scope have the same flaw that is seen on the Dulles Approach Control radar scope presentaion...ie...IF AA77 was indeed a high speed target doing 500kts, or so.

Now, there is NO DOUBT that UA 175 was at high speed before its descent and before its turn back towards WTC2, but just check out the spaces between the sweeps. They are the IDENTICAL spaces as seen on the Dulles presentation for AA77. In other words, the "speed" that the spaces between the "blips" on New York Tracon radar show that UA175 was going 300kts...the same as AA77...but it was moving faster. Same is seen on the Pittsburgh Tracon radar display for UA93...aka...300kts

Looking at it from the opposite view, UA 175 was at or near full speed so the spaces between the "blips" should have been ALMOST TWICE AS LARGE as are those displayed...AND it was a secondary [transponder working] target yet it looks identical to the primary target of AA77 on Dulles Approach Control radar and all the other tracon radar displays.

This ALSO ANSWERS why we do not see many other targets moving all over the Dulles and New York Tracon radar dislays. MANY, MANY other targets should have been on all the tracon radar scopes. But only these "special targets" were presented.

Again, just check out the big turn of UA93 on the ENROUTE radar display...you see several other aircraft "targets" flying along their routings. Then, we see the same "300K" target spacing and north-south orientation on the Pittsburgh Tracon radar. I believe that UA93's transponder was working for most of the flight?

Also, AA11 radar flight targets show ENROUTE radar targets until the transponder is turned off...and then it shows NOTHING on enroute radar! Well, that's not what Zalewski and his brothers and sisters saw after the transponder was turned off. BECAUSE...they went to primary radar and all of THOSE targets, including AA11's strong wide body primary target would be displayed by a "+" on the enroute controller's scope. Then, AA11 was shown on New York Tracon's radar display and had the same small target with a north-south orientation as seen on Dulle's PRIMARY target for AA77.

At the moment, it certainly appears that HUMAN BEINGS etched all the targets' flight paths onto the various TRACON radar scope displays.

Sooooo, all of this seems just another part of the "psy-ops" so carfully crafted by the HI PERPS. The public was simply led to believe that AA11 "dissappeared" from the controller's radar scope...when actually, they were doing their jobs by adjusting their equipment, raising their attentiveness, and asking for more "eyes" on the task!...JUST LIKE I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY MY INSIDE CONTACTS. And, the targets shown on all the Tracon radars are all identical, all flying at 300Kts, and all ALONE in the air that day. HMMMM...

You have to admit, it all LOOKS pretty good aye!

BTW...Who was it that was led to safety in the forest by following crumbs carefully left upon the ground...OH YEAH, I remember, the american public!

More info to confirm needed from the inside...TBA.

Love, Peace and Progress...

Robin Hordon

PS:
Looks like we may have some fun ladies and gentlemen...
Let's all raise a toast to the HI PERP'S map makers!!!!