A Question For Us Radar Controllers Options

[ivanvedder]

Hy, this is an italian Atcer, I have a question for all the radar controllers here:
In 2001 (in case of a plane with transponder off) did you have to select a different setting on your radar to see his primary response?
this is what the 9/11 commission says:

"On 9/11, the terrorists turned off the transponders on three of the four hijacked aircraft. With its transponder off, it is possible, though more difficult, to track an aircraft by its primary radar returns. But unlike transponder data, primary radar returns do not show the aircraft's identity and altitude. Controllers at centers rely so heavily on transponder signals that they usually do not display primary radar returns on their radar scopes. But they can change the configuration of their scopes so they can see primary radar returns. They did this on 9/11 when the transponder signals for three of the aircraft disappeared."

Is there any guy (especially from Boston or New York, Cleveland, and Indianapolis) who can answer?
In the italian sistem if an aircraft loses the transponder signal (or if we have an a/c without it) we see directly (with no changings of configurations) a specific simbol (+) with the speed indication.
thanks for your help
ciao!

This post has been edited by ivanvedder: Feb 21 2007, 09:22 AM

[Westgate]

Robin - As always, thanks so much for such detailed and fascinating responses.

On other forums and sites, I have seen much debate on 'Radar Holes' in the areas where 11 & 175 flew up to. The debate seems to centre on whether a plane swap was feasible in the so called Radar holes. Of course, following your detailed descriptions it seems more than likely, most definitely to me now, that both flights were followed all the way. Good controllers would automatically do all they could to keep those birds tracked.

Is it wise therefore to surmise that they would also have spotted any form of plane swap taking place? Or can one plane literally fly in the radar shadow of another if it gets close enough. If that shadow plane is flying without transponder turned on (for obvious reasons) then gets up 'close and dirty' to the other - then at a given signal - one turns it's transponder on, exactly as the other turns it's transponder off, would that mask such a swap. Would it be possible for that to take place in a radar gap - if indeed there is such a thing? Could 11 or 175 have been swapped in the air - or were they drones right from take-off? The change-over in radar holes seems a bit risky to me, not quite the signature of the organisers, but I guess if you really know your airspace?

Many/some of the controllers were interviewed collectively later that day by an un-named supervisor I believe - who subsequently broke the cassette recording up - thus it was never made available to anybody - allegedly! Now I begin to understand what they must have really 'seen' - what an awful thing to have to live with, knowing if you say one word your job, pension, will be taken away from you - perhaps even something worse than that. The HI Perps have so much to answer for - so many lives ruined for ever because of them. Widows, widowers, lots of scared people.

Robin, thanks so very much.




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