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What Are The Chances?, Paige Farley Hackel & Ruth McCourt coincidence/oddity

paranoia
post Apr 2 2007, 06:56 AM
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http://inmemoriamonline.net/Profiles/Folde...ige-(AA11).html

QUOTE
"They were best friends, close as sisters, and they were headed to California. Paige Farley- Hackel, and Ruth McCourt were going to fly from Boston together on United Airlines Flight 175, but when Ms. Farley- Hackel realized she could use frequent flyer miles, she got a ticket for American Airlines Flight 11 instead. Ms. McCourt, who was flying with her 4-year-old daughter, Juliana, and Ms. Farley-Hackel said goodbye in the early morning hours at Logan International Airport in Boston on Sept. 11, and boarded their planes.

The women had planned on meeting in Los Angeles and taking Juliana to Disneyland. Ms. Farley-Hackel's plane was hijacked and struck the north tower of the World Trade Center. Ms. McCourt's and Juliana's flight, hijacked as well, crashed into the south tower shortly thereafter."


and:

http://derek.gwinn.us/blog/2006/09/07/reme...-farley-hackel/

QUOTE
"Paige Farley-Hackel was on her way to Los Angeles on a multi-purpose trip. She was planning on being certified in the Debbie Ford Shadow Process, and to take a trip to Disneyland with her best friend, Ruth McCourt, and Ruth’s daughter, Juliana. Upon returning to Boston, she would have been shortly starting her own AM radio program, “Spiritually Speaking.” According to her husband, Alan Hackel, she had a two-year plan to either be featured on The Oprah Winfrey Show, or else be Oprah’s biggest rival.

Ms. McCourt and her 4-year-old daughter were on United flight 175, which also was hijacked and crashed into the south tower shortly thereafter. In a cruel twist of fate, Ms. McCourt’s brother, Ronald Clifford, was at the WTC for a meeting. He arrived in the WTC lobby just as the first plane hit, carrying Ms. Farley-Hackel. As he was helping an injured woman out of the building, he looked up just in time to see the plane carrying his sister and niece crash into the south tower."


i was so blown away by this triple coincedence that i had to share it (i searched the site and found no mention of it).

This post has been edited by paranoia: Feb 9 2012, 02:13 AM
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heliweli
post Apr 2 2007, 05:07 PM
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I remember that very well. Ruth McCourt and her brother were Irish. So it was a huge story here in Ireland!
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amazed!
post Apr 7 2007, 09:49 PM
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Sounds like pure propaganda to me. thumbdown.gif
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heliweli
post Apr 8 2007, 05:10 PM
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Interested in that last comment. The McCourts lived about twenty miles away from me. Didn't know them personally. But their parents were interviewed and that is one of the things i remember about 9/11. I am currently writing an essay for a thesis, and when you mentioned propaganda, I got interested as i'm writing on american foreign policy, propaganda and censorship and photography. I don't have a closed mind, and if you have any info on the above would definitely appreciate it.
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amazed!
post Apr 14 2007, 06:47 PM
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I suspect it is propaganda for several reasons.

1. It is very convenient, and poignant, and fit for public consumption. A tear jerker, for some.

2. The passenger lists submitted by the government are suspect. Also very convenient, and alot of people who were in fact employed in the Military Industrial Complex.

If those guys don't know how to do anything else, they do know how to practice propaganda.

Perhaps this case is just as presented, I simply have suspicions.

This post has been edited by amazed!: Apr 14 2007, 06:49 PM
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biggahthebettah
post Apr 16 2007, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Apr 14 2007, 05:47 PM)
I suspect it is propaganda for several reasons.

1. It is very convenient, and poignant, and fit for public consumption. A tear jerker, for some.

2. The passenger lists submitted by the government are suspect. Also very convenient, and alot of people who were in fact employed in the Military Industrial Complex.

If those guys don't know how to do anything else, they do know how to practice propaganda.

Perhaps this case is just as presented, I simply have suspicions.

I'm with you, amazed. Why didn't they take it a step further and tell how the guy looks up and sees his sister waving down at him and blowing a kiss just before it crashes?

I don't buy it. If I'm wrong, then all of my condolences.
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heliweli
post Apr 18 2007, 08:06 PM
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I heard all that 5 or so years ago.Believed everything then. Funny thing is, if it was propaganda, they were the very people that caused me to google 9/11 one day, and now I of course don't believe a word of the official story.
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Logicman
post Jan 28 2009, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Apr 14 2007, 05:47 PM) *
I suspect it is propaganda for several reasons.

1. It is very convenient, and poignant, and fit for public consumption. A tear jerker, for some.

2. The passenger lists submitted by the government are suspect. Also very convenient, and alot of people who were in fact employed in the Military Industrial Complex.

If those guys don't know how to do anything else, they do know how to practice propaganda.

Perhaps this case is just as presented, I simply have suspicions.



Could you please link me to the passenger list submitted by the government? I've had no luck on this one so far...

Thanks!
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trvl4freedom
post Jan 28 2009, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE (Logicman @ Jan 26 2009, 02:50 PM) *
Could you please link me to the passenger list submitted by the government? I've had no luck on this one so far...

Thanks!


It would be better to seek out the passenger manifests from United and American. They will definitely have it on record (of course, it may be difficult to get them to release it to you).

The reason being that, despite the obvious security need to match passenger names to tickets, boarding passes and their ID, airlines do not have proof of payment unless the actual passenger manifest matches all the ticket stubs/receipts they collect. Therefore, both these items are reconciled, recorded and saved.

Airlines sell tickets through various channels and ticket agents and gate agents are tasked with making sure proof of every bit of revenue is accounted for before they dispatch a flight. Before the widespread use of e-ticketing, in some cases, the only proof of payment was that ticket stub and it was like cash -- if a passenger lost that page and showed up with just an itinerary or their seat assignment stubs/boarding passes, they would be denied boarding. (Both United and American are members of The Airline Reporting Corporation which helps to reconcile payments and/or disputes between airlines and their sales channels, such as travel agencies.)

Because those agents would have no way of knowing that those flights were going to be hijacked and we are going to assume they are not agents of some grander conspiracy, it is safe to assume they treated those flights like any other routine flight of the day and followed standard company/accounting policy and matched all ticket receipts to the passenger manifest. Therefore, the airline manifest list will probably be more accurate than any other list.
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KILL YOUR TV!
post Jan 30 2009, 12:23 PM
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QUOTE (trvl4freedom @ Jan 28 2009, 05:22 PM) *
It would be better to seek out the passenger manifests from United and American. They will definitely have it on record ....



http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/passengers.html


cheers.gif
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tnemelckram
post Jan 30 2009, 08:32 PM
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I spent some time at 911research.

The are behind date on the Pentagon. Its almost as if their analysis stops with the summer 2006 release of the FDR data by the NTSB. Based on the evidence available then they sort of hold their nose and conclude that AA77 did strike the Pentagon; a principal reason for their reservations is the lack of the FDR data that the government claimed supported its story. They also don't care much for the government eyewitnesses but conclude that you have to go with them because they are the only ones at hand. They seem to lean toward remote piloting as the most likely dirt in the story.

Since then the Pilots analysis of the FDR data has destroyed its veracity and the notion that it supports the OCT. CIT has developed eyewitnesses whose testimony is at odds with the government witnesses and more certain and compelling. The site should include these developments and revisit its original somewhat reluctant conclusion.


There's a lot of good information and analysis there and it's easy to find because the site is well organized and easy to get around.

Although their 2006 Pentagon conclusions are no longer viable, I still like the way they think. It turns out that at least their reservations were well grounded. And they still seem to be spot on with regard to the WTC.

This post has been edited by tnemelckram: Jan 30 2009, 08:33 PM
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amazed!
post Jan 31 2009, 10:59 PM
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Logicman

Even if I said "yeah OK, the passenger lists are no problem as represented", there is so much OTHER stuff about the events of the day that demonstrate fraud, that it overwhelms your silly ass passenger list thing.

One must be able to look at the BIG picture. Step back, look at the forest rather than any individual tree.
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poppyburner
post Oct 11 2013, 08:54 PM
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The aspect which I find most intriguing about their story is:

'But their togetherness ended at the airport: Try as they might, they couldn't get seats on the same plane.
Hackel, 46, left first, on American Airlines Flight 11. Ruth McCourt, 45, and Juliana, 4, boarded United Airlines Flight 175.' ~ ~ LA Times.

Note: unlike all the other terror-attack planes, there were no under 20s on board the strangely calm Flight 11, and I'm guessing that Juliana McCourt was precluded because of her age.
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poppyburner
post Feb 6 2014, 02:30 AM
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Hold on a minute:

They all tried to book a United Airlines flight to LAX (UAL175).

The mother's friend (Farley-Hackel) wanted to use Frequent Flier miles for American Airlines; so she transfered to that airline.

They unsurprisingly wanted to stay together; which would mean all transferring to American Airlines (Flight 11).
However:

QUOTE (LA Times)
'Try as they might, they couldn't get seats on the same plane.'


~ http://articles.latimes.com/2001/sep/16/news/mn-46439

QUOTE (Wikipedia)
'The capacity of the aircraft was 158 passengers, but the September 11 flight carried 81 passengers and 11 crew members. This was a light load at 58.2 percent capacity, but higher than the average load factor for Flight 11 on Tuesday mornings of 39 percent in the months preceding September 11.'


~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_11

So the AA plane, was far from full. Plus there were ultimately 11 available seats in Business Class:



Yet the mother and her young daughter of 4 (who are unlikely to be separated), were strangely unable to join aunty Farley-Hackel.

QUOTE (FBI)
'[REDACTED] advised she worked the gate for AA Flight 11. She said she boarded the passengers for this flight.
... She descried this flight as normal...
...
She said there were no children passengers on this flight.'


~ http://www.911myths.com/images/7/74/Team7-...es-and-302s.pdf

Perhaps it was feared, that a: brief, abrupt, muting, of a wailing child (choking on Mace); might expose the planned "FLIGHT 12" sound-boarding of Betty Ong?
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tumetuestumefais...
post Feb 6 2014, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Apr 7 2007, 02:49 PM) *
Sounds like pure propaganda to me. thumbdown.gif

To me this old story looks like as a story to explain ties between 9/11 victims when someone starts asking questions.

More oddly Ruth McCourt was also one of those with "9/11 premonitions":
QUOTE
One of the most harrowing stories to emerge from 9/11 is that of Ruth McCourt, who died with her four-year-old daughter Juliana, when United Airlines Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower.
In the cruellest of twists, Ruth's best friend and Juliana's godmother, Paige, had decided to go with them but ended up on a different flight. She was on American Airlines flight 11, which hit the North Tower.
Like Eamon and Michael, Ruth's mood had changed as 2001 went on.
David, her husband of seven years, felt she was distancing herself from him. One day she turned to him and said: 'If anything happens to me, put my ashes in Ireland.'
Only after her death did David learn that Ruth had told several people that she thought something catastrophic was going to happen.
On the night before their flight, with Ruth and Juliana staying with her godmother Paige to be nearer to the airport, David spoke to his wife on the telephone for the last time.
'We said goodbye and I started to put the phone down. Then I saw an explosion, like a big light going off in my head. It was so monumental I had to sit down. I was stunned and silent and frozen for about 30 seconds.
'I remember thinking to myself: "My God, what was that?" I was debating whether to call Ruth back, and I was experiencing a feeling of total composure, a feeling of comfort. So I just went on with what I was doing. The rest is history.'


more here

Somehow I have feeling this Ruth looks more like grandmother than mother of the 4 year old.
Interesting is also the McCourt husband David who considered suicide.
QUOTE
'Ruth and Juliana were my life and my passion,' he told an audience at a New London synagogue.
but then he got "spiritually awakened" and have found new wife a former model and breast cancer patient receiving mastectomy and 6 chemotherapies in her 30s and then ran NY Marathon. They 'overcame their difficulties together'.
Ron Clifford also has some interesting thing to say.
QUOTE
He says: “I finally got home and I had burnt skin. My whole body smelled of this aviation fuel. I just wanted to get in the shower...[i/]
...
[i]Architect Ron, originally from Cork, was a witness in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker. He is now due to give evidence at the military tribunal of Sheik Mohammed.
He explains: “Because of the loss of my sister and niece, and because I was there at the time, they are using me as a witness. That’s a huge event for us.
“It’s now going to be a military tribunal at Guantanamo. I’m part of a group of 40 people. I want to see this guy in court. He’s the mastermind. Sheik Mohammed. I really want to see him tried and justice done. It’s a big thing for me.”
Seeing justice done has also proved something of a release for his daughter.
Ron says: “Monica never spoke about 9/11 at all until we had an opportunity to go to the Moussaoui trial. She wouldn’t talk about it for years. The psychologist said to just leave her alone.
“She sat across from Moussaoui, heard me tell my story on the witness stand and she sat through the rantings and ravings of Moussaoui. And that was the first time she spoke about it. That cloud went. Then for her college entrance exam she wrote about how bin Laden tried to kill her father on her birthday.
“Some people will never get out of there. Some people will be locked in there for the rest of their lives.

more here

Not speaking about the McCourt mother:
QUOTE
As she prepared for the two funerals, Paula Scott, McCourt's mother, kept replaying the World Trade Center crashes in her mind. She says she somehow knew at the moment she saw the second plane crash on TV that she had lost her granddaughter, her daughter and her daughter's best friend.
...
"I know it wasn't physically possible," she says. "But I had a vision of all of them holding onto each other."

more here


---who wtrites this stuff?... dunno.gif
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Art
post Feb 6 2014, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Feb 6 2014, 12:35 PM) *
---who wtrites this stuff?... dunno.gif

Professional propagandists write it. It tugs the heartstrings. I believe that Herb Homer, Peter Gay, David Kvalocin, Stan Hall, Kenny Waldie, Bill Caswell, Dan Brandhorst, Brian Kinney, Chandler Keller and all of the other people with defense related jobs were eliminated on 9/11 because of their knowledge of the weapons that were used and these stories were created to divert attention away from the improbable number of victims from the MIC.
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poppyburner
post Feb 6 2014, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (FBI)
Information obtained from AA reservation records indicated 164 reservations made for AA flight 11 departing
Boston, MA on 09/11/2001. Of the 164 reservations made, 65 persons cancelled their reservations prior to departure,
82 persons were on board the aircraft, and 17 persons were no shows.


~ http://www.911myths.com/images/c/cb/Team7_...FBI-Reports.pdf

blink.gif

This post has been edited by poppyburner: Feb 6 2014, 09:00 PM
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tumetuestumefais...
post Feb 6 2014, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (poppyburner @ Feb 6 2014, 01:33 PM) *
Information obtained from AA reservation records indicated 164 reservations made for AA flight 11 departing
Boston, MA on 09/11/2001. Of the 164 reservations made, 65 persons cancelled their reservations prior to departure,
82 persons were on board the aircraft, and 17 persons were no shows

Interesting, I neve have seen this numbers. Do they have a significance? Just asking. Cancelling of flights is quite common and no shows could happen in rush hours. Anyway good for the people who didn't make it to their flights... rolleyes.gif
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poppyburner
post Feb 7 2014, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Feb 7 2014, 02:31 AM) *
Interesting, I neve have seen this numbers. Do they have a significance? Just asking. Cancelling of flights is quite common and no shows could happen in rush hours.


On reflection, maybe it's not so strange. Flight 11 was a regular service, with some bookings made long in advance. Some of the cancellations were by those who moved to other days.

Unlike Paige Farley-Hackel, who booked a seat in the front of Flight 11's Business Class cabin; the McCourts' seats, were both booked for United Airlines' Flight 175's Economy Class. Juliana in window seat 26A; Ruth: next to her, in aisle seat 26B:



The American Airlines plane, had a 158 passenger seat capacity, 81 were reserved (9 in First Class, 19 in Business Class, 53 in Coach Class), thus, the ultimate spare total: 77.

1 free in First, 11 in Business, 65 in Coach.

17 no show passengers; 7 of which booked for First Class, so don't count.

QUOTE (FBI)
'Among the Individuals booked for passage aboard AA Flight #11 on September 11, 2001 (but not ticketed) were seven individuals who did not show for the flight and whose reservations had been made at 4:00 am EDT on September 11, 2001 by Intervia Travel Agency located in Karachi, Pakistan. Three of the passengers were listed by the name "Noris" and four listed by the name "Cooper." The travel was booked as one-way, first-class tickets.


~ http://www.911myths.com/images/a/ab/Team7_...tInfoTables.pdf

Therefore, 10 no shows (for unknown seats).

Of the 65 total cancellations; 8 were on September 10th, 2001:

Marilyn Benoit
Christopher Mello (Coach, changed to Business)
John Bendfeldt
W, S ('CHEAP SEATS TRAVEL' Coach?)
Antonio Montoya
James Gipson
Tom Duffield
Xavier Suarez

3 were on the morning of September 11th 2001:

Seth McFarlane (First Class - irrelevant)
Carolyn Caswell
Alberto Dominguez (who changed to a Business Class seat)

~ http://www.911myths.com/images/c/cb/Team7_...FBI-Reports.pdf

So it seems that seat-vacancy-wise; there was plenty of opportunity for the McCourts to accompany Farley-Hackel?

This post has been edited by poppyburner: Feb 7 2014, 08:40 PM
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NP1Mike
post Feb 7 2014, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Feb 6 2014, 11:35 AM) *
....more like grandmother, than mother of the 4 year old.




This is the first time I've seen this photo or heard of 'Ruth' the mother.

That photo is a classic case of photoshopping if ever there was one!

Allow me to pick it apart:

1. Ruth is at least 50 years older than the little girl.
2. Check out Ruth's wrinkly wrists.
3. Check out Ruth's brown-spotted hands.
4. Check out Ruth's green jacket on her right shoulder and bare left shoulder/arm!
5. Check out the fake 'natural' background.
6. Check out the white border around Ruth and the girls hair just below the mysterious black background!

I'd love to see more photos of this 'mother and child'. smile.gif

(Modified to add the photo)

This post has been edited by NP1Mike: Feb 7 2014, 11:48 PM
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