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FDR pressure altitude

driver
post Sep 4 2006, 01:17 PM
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The screenshot below shows the very last frame of the recorded data. Its stops at 9:37:44 AM EDT (Official Impact Time is 09:37:45)

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

John, what is the source of the Official Impact Time- 09:37:45?

The 9/11 Commission Report states:

"9:37:46 AA 77 crashes into the Pentagon"

At the reported speed, one second may affect the results of the analysis.
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driver
post Sep 4 2006, 01:28 PM
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'At the reported speed, one second may affect the results of the analysis."



The last reported speed was 463 knots or nautical miles per hour.

At 6000 feet per nautical mile, my math shows the true airspeed at
approxomately 771 feet per second,assumimg standard day sea level conditions.
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driver
post Sep 4 2006, 02:19 PM
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On runway 30 at IAD. note the cvs file shows 61 feet (because its reporting pressure alt)

Touchdown Zone Elevation for Rwy 30 at IAD is 288 ft.

Airport elevation for IAD is 312 ft.

This post has been edited by driver: Sep 4 2006, 04:10 PM
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE (driver @ Sep 4 2006, 03:19 PM)
On runway 30 at IAD. note the cvs file shows 61 feet (because its reporting pressure alt)

Touchdown Zone Elevation for Rwy 30 at IAD is 288 ft.

Airport evlevation for IAD is 312 ft.

Thats correct. The csv file shows pressure alt.

The animation shows 300 feet. Until FL180, which the alt is then set to 29.92 in the animation. The alt is never reset in the animation upon descent. Although the csv file baro co column shows it as being set. The csv file and animation conflict in this parameter only. All other parameters match.

The animation is showing pressure alt at 09:37:44.
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE (driver @ Sep 4 2006, 02:17 PM)
The screenshot below shows the very last frame of the recorded data. Its stops at 9:37:44 AM EDT (Official Impact Time is 09:37:45)

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

John, what is the source of the Official Impact Time- 09:37:45?

The 9/11 Commission Report states:

"9:37:46 AA 77 crashes into the Pentagon"

At the reported speed, one second may affect the results of the analysis.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf

page 2.

The 9/11 Commission Report is inaccurate on many accounts and misquotes the NTSB Flight Path Study as noted above.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm
Please review all documents.
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driver
post Sep 4 2006, 04:11 PM
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Pressure altitude calculator


http://www.csgnetwork.com/pressurealtcalc.html
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (driver @ Sep 4 2006, 02:28 PM)
'At the reported speed, one second may affect the results of the analysis."



The last reported speed was 463 knots or nautical miles per hour.

At 6000 feet per nautical mile, my math shows the true airspeed at
approxomately 771 feet per second,assumimg standard day sea level conditions.

463 knots is 781.5 ft/sec

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/speed

Which if you look at my flight path above plotted on Google Earth, and according to the imact time as described in the original Flight Path Study done by the NTSB (not the 9/11 Commission Report) of :45, you will see it brings you directly over the light poles.


Hope this clear it up for you driver. Let me know if there is anything else...

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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (driver @ Sep 4 2006, 05:11 PM)

You dont need a calculator when you know 1" of mercury is equal to 1,000 feet.


29.92 to 30.22 is a 300 foot difference. agreed?
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 04:18 PM
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Also.. note you dont even need the animation to figure it out.

Look at the csv file pressure altitude column at 09:37:44. Its 173 feet.

Adjust for local pressure of 30.22 and your true altitude is 473 feet.

Much too high to hit the poles...

Even 173 feet pressure alt is too high.
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 04:29 PM
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Also.. lets talk hypotheticals that impact time was :46 (according to the 9/11 report).

That would mean the aircraft would have had to descend almost 328 feet in one second to hit the top of the light poles.. which translates into 19,680 feet/min descent, then level out to cross the lawn at a level attitude. Impossible.

328*60=19,680 ft/min

480-328=152''

Poles are 40' ground elevation + 37 foot poles+ 75' FAR margin of error = 152' MSL.

And thats to just clip the top with using the margin of error in favor of the official story. Subtract the 75 foot margin and it gets even more absurd.

Either way.. the NTSB data is showing that this aircraft is impossible to have hit the light poles and/or be at a level attitude across the lawn as shown in the DOD video.
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driver
post Sep 4 2006, 08:20 PM
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29.92 to 30.22 is a 300 foot difference. agreed?

http://www.csgnetwork.com/pressurealtcalc.html

The pressure altitude calculator indicates 30.22 equals minus 275.1 ft.
It is a value that needs to be nailed down.

What is your source for the 30.22 value?
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driver
post Sep 4 2006, 08:25 PM
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Poles are 40' ground elevation + 37 foot poles+ 75' FAR margin of error = 152' MSL.

I believe the poles are 49 ft tall. This is another number that needs to be nailed down.

My only goal here is to contribute, along with others, so that the final product
is flawless, based on the data provided by the NTSB.
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (driver @ Sep 4 2006, 09:25 PM)
Poles are 40' ground elevation + 37 foot poles+ 75' FAR margin of error = 152' MSL.

I believe the poles are 49 ft tall. This is another number that needs to be nailed down.

My only goal here is to contribute, along with others, so that the final product
is flawless, based on the data provided by the NTSB.

Russell Pickering visited the poles in person. He got the length from the VDOT. (you can also call the VDOT yourself).

Basically, you need to have more than ~350 feet accounted for in order for this aircraft to have hit the poles. If you want to fine tune it to the exact foot.. be my guest. You still wont get anywhere near close to the poles.

I already included the 75 foot margin for error in favor of the govt story... i'll give em another 100 feet if it makes em happy... still not even close.
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (driver @ Sep 4 2006, 09:20 PM)
29.92 to 30.22 is a 300 foot difference. agreed?

http://www.csgnetwork.com/pressurealtcalc.html

The pressure altitude calculator indicates 30.22 equals minus 275.1 ft.
It is a value that needs to be nailed down.

What is your source for the 30.22 value?

My over 20 years of flying experience and adjusting altimeters for 5-7 legs per day.


Its a well known rule of thumb that 1" of mercury equals 1,000 feet. Is it exact? No.

You said you were a pilot.. right?
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 09:17 PM
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By the way.. if you want to get exact with your online pressure altitude converter... rolleyes.gif


Just add your 275 feet to 180 feet. So we have 455 MSL. If you want ground elevation for the highway.. use Google Earth... its pretty damn accurate (try moving the mouse over different airport elevations compared to your Jepps).

Even with the 75 foot margin for error in favor of the govt story... we're still off by 303 feet.

If we use the 75 foot margin of error to our advantage.. its 453 feet.

lets just put it this way.. if the NTSB came to me and said i was 25 feet off with my rule of thumb calculation for pressure alt.. first i'd laugh in their face.. then i'd ask about the other 300 feet.
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 09:27 PM
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Average decrease
Altitude Range per 1,000 feet Feet per in/Hg

Sea level to 5,000 ft 1.006 in/Hg 994
5,000 to 10,000 0.862 1,160
10,000 to 15,000 0.740 1,350
Sea Level to 10,000 ft 0.934 1,070


http://www.challengers101.com/Pressure.html
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 09:30 PM
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oh.. and here are the metars for that day...

METAR KDCA 111251Z 35005KT 10SM CLR 21/14 A3021
SPECI KDCA 111341Z 33010KT 10SM CLR 23/14 A3022
METAR KDCA 111351Z 34009KT 10SM CLR 23/14 A3023
METAR KDCA 111451Z 32008KT 4SM HZ CLR 24/14 A3022
METAR KDCA 111551Z 33009G15KT 7SM CLR 26/14 A3021

I got them from some website... i didnt check the exact source as it was pretty consistent with the day.. (CAVU.. High Pressure.. winds from NW... etc etc). And it matched the csv file baro co from the FDR. Note the SPECI just after impact time.

Feel Free to call the NOAA for archives.
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rob balsamo
post Sep 4 2006, 09:35 PM
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Also Driver.. just to give you a bit of insight...

We already have about 10 pilots that have gone over this work and cross checked it.

Including those pilots that believe the official story. Including being posted on several pilot website forums... There arent any mistakes.

But.. knock yourself out.


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driver
post Sep 4 2006, 11:00 PM
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At 6000 feet per nautical mile,

Correction: 6076 feet per nautical mile.

Yields 781 ft per second,sea level,standard conditions.
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driver
post Sep 5 2006, 08:22 AM
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http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf

NTSB Flight Path Study American Airlines Flight 77

page 2

"The time of impact was 9:37:45 AM."

Jim Ritter
Chief Vehicle Performance
NTSB
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