Fires In Wtc7 Before WTC1N Collapse, and why was the OEM evacuated? Options

[dMz]

Related "gravitational" trajectory information is at posts #10-13:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10742236

And posts #18 & 20 above:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10746307

[amazed!]

Awesome work dMole! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

[KP50]

My lingering question is still what is the exact mechanism that enables gravitation (falling debris) to ignite any fire? I didn't see any "flaming debris" in the photos or video, but there was hella dust and paper, plus that one famous passport. I've seen lightning strikes ignite fires many times, but gravity?

Meteorites, satellites, and "space junk" can do such things, but they "fall" much further and faster through Earth's atmosphere and gravitational field.

Of course, much of the WTC1N and WTC2 So debris was observed to have "fallen" upward and sideways, so let's not use logic or the laws of physics here- those clearly will not help in this matter.

I can only think of two things that will eject debris or objects spherically outwards, and one of those is an electromagnetic field.

Just wandering through this thread again. I have often wondered what was contained in the dust cloud that caused cars to catch fire. There were dozens of them but as far as I know, no reports of people burning in the dust clouds. There was an interview I read once (and could find again) of a 1st responder running away from the collapse and seeing cars bursting into flames alongside her. So what could have caused a reaction that only seemed to affect metal? Beyond my scientific knowledge so just throwing it out there.

[lunk]

My little truck has an in-tank gas pump,
this means that there are wires going into a coil
of wire inside my gas tank,
this is a common design for modern vehicle fuel pumps.

If there was an electro-magnetic pulse,
say, from a nearby nuclear device going off,
and the gas tank wasn't filled to the brim,
the vapors could cause it to explode.

A pretty stupid design,
...unless it was intentional.

imo, lunk

[DoYouEverWonder]

Bookmark this page

http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/index.shtm

as it has some great shots of the towers and also a view of the business side of WTC7. From

http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-16.jpg

onwards, you can see shots of WTC7 with what appears to be very bright lights coming from certain floors which seems to indicate which parts were on fire. They roughly match the floor that Jennings claimed to be on when there was an explosion. If you can't locate WTC7, it is to the left of the North Tower.

As a side issue there are also indications of explosions/smoke at various points on the towers themselves.

Here's a zoomed in look at the fires in WTC 7 before the collapses.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/DoYouEverWonder/Misc/WTC-7-Aman-Zafer-4-of-5.jpg)


What was happening in WTC 7 before the Towers collapsed? - Posted Sep-22-07

[KP50]

And just to square the circle by quoting from the weasly words of a NIST FAQ page (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.html)

What caused the fires in WTC 7?Debris from the collapse of WTC 1, which was 370 feet to the south, ignited fires on at least 10 floors in the building at its south and west faces. However, only the fires on some of the lower floors—7 through 9 and 11 through 13—burned out of control. These lower-floor fires—which spread and grew because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system for these floors had failed—were similar to building fires experienced in other tall buildings. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city’s water supply, whose lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2. These uncontrolled lower-floor fires eventually spread to the northeast part of WTC 7, where the building’s collapse began.

[KP50]

[Moved from Research by d]

I am looking for more conformation to the time at witch the fire in WTC7 started. Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.

I have Barry Jennings, and The history channel stating they started before the tower collapse.

I hadn't seen this post until now. So when did the History Channel state there was fire in WTC7 before a tower collapsed? I can find this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf52SayA1w8

which has Sheirer talking about evacuating the OEM but not really giving a reason. This was obviously before the Commission decided on the 3rd plane story as the reason for evacuating the OEM.

Can anyone help with a History Channel link?

[dMz]

Hey KP in NZ!

History Channel would have "copyright killed" that long ago- can't be them. I think it was the late Barry Jennings BBC? interview. Check these 2 threads that each have videos:

Eye Witness: Death Bodies And Explosions In Wtc-7 Before 9:58
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=13630

Barry Jennings Is [Allegedly] Now Dead, Edited- He Has Passed
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=14697

Might be good to save copies of those too.

[KP50]

Hey KP in NZ!

History Channel would have "copyright killed" that long ago- can't be them. I think it was the late Barry Jennings BBC? interview. Check these 2 threads that each have videos:

Eye Witness: Death Bodies And Explosions In Wtc-7 Before 9:58
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=13630

Barry Jennings Is [Allegedly] Now Dead, Edited- He Has Passed
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=14697

Might be good to save copies of those too.

I was just wondering aloud about any History Channel programmes from soon after 9/11 - pre-Commission/Omission report. The story of the reason for evacuation of the OEM appears to have changed over time until the Commission report fixed it at "worries about a 3rd plane". Sheirer's quote from the start of this thread about an explosion and fire in WTC7 might have made it into some sort of documentary ......

[stannrodd]

Just wanted to post these pics I found somewhere ages ago.. maybe relevant to this thread.

I did post them at another forum, originally I was scrutinizing the window washers who are seen on the face of the WTC7 and I was collecting photos of WTC7 perhaps to see if they were up to something naughty.

Then came across these two pics which seem to show .. what could be a fire or other event going on inside. No smoke though, and I guess it could be a reflection ...?

(IMG:http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/MVC-031S.jpg)

(IMG:http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/MVC-032S.jpg)

Stann

[painter]

Just wanted to post these pics I found somewhere ages ago.. maybe relevant to this thread.

Thanks, Stann, but at such lo resolution it is impossible to say what is being photographed. Now, if someone could come up with hi-res versions, that might be a help.

[DoYouEverWonder]

Thanks, Stann, but at such lo resolution it is impossible to say what is being photographed. Now, if someone could come up with hi-res versions, that might be a help.

The resolution isn't that bad.

I pulled the pic into photoshop and it holds up fairly well when you zoom in.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/DoYouEverWonder/Misc/WTC-7-NE-Corner-fire.jpg)

Sure looks like fire to me and the picture does not appear to be doctored.

From a structual POV, you need to attack corners on key floors because that's one of the strongest parts of a building in order to get it to fail properly. The same thing happened in both Towers.

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Feb 26 2009, 10:22 PM

[stannrodd]

The resolution isn't that bad.

I pulled the pic into photoshop and it holds up fairly well when you zoom in.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/DoYouEverWonder/Misc/WTC-7-NE-Corner-fire.jpg)

Sure looks like fire to me and the picture does not appear to be doctored.

From a structual POV, you need to attack corners on key floors because that's one of the strongest parts of a building in order to get it to fail properly. The same thing happened in both Towers.

I've pulled this from the other forum ... Researched by Ricochet.
Thought it might be good to have a fresh look at the crime scene.

This is the source url for the quote below.


http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/features/5270/

On the morning of September 11, Sheirer got to City Hall at 8 a.m. for a meeting about the Jackie Robinson-Pee Wee Reese memorial planned for Coney Island. "I was in heaven, sitting between Ralph Branca and Joe Black," he remembers. "We were about to select the statue, and then we heard the pop." At first he thought a transformer had exploded in an underground substation. Then he got a flash report from Watch Command in OEM headquarters.

As his driver barreled down Broadway, Sheirer recalls, "my first move was to clear the streets so we could get emergency vehicles in and people out." He radioed the police department and told them to shut down traffic below Canal Street and close every bridge and tunnel in the city.

Down at the scene, he joined Fire Commissioner Tom Von Essen and his chiefs Pete Ganci and Bill Feehan -- old friends from Sheirer's 26 years with the New York Fire Department. They were establishing a command post at the base of the burning tower. Then the second airplane hit. "At that point there was no more doubt," he says ruefully. "We were under attack." He picked up one of the three cell phones strapped to his belt and started giving orders: to the Coast Guard to seal the harbor, and to the State Emergency Management Office to send backup search and rescue teams and get the Pentagon to freeze the city's airspace. Then he lost his signal.

As Sheirer helped move the Fire Department command post, he saw a cloud of smoke and debris engulf his own command center, on the twenty-third floor of 7 World Trade Center. His staff was inside sending alerts to representatives of nearly 100 organizations -- everyone from Con Edison to the Department of Health. One of his deputies radioed him to report that the OEM would have to evacuate.

Bold type I have added, (underlined) being the pertinent point. At the time we couldn't clearly assess whether this event was at the command centre on the 23rd. No real pointers other than counting floors down from the top.

Which floor was 47 ?? The roof ? Was the command centre in the corner ??

Why was there "a cloud of smoke and debris" ??

Stann

This post has been edited by stannrodd: Feb 26 2009, 10:58 PM

[Syxxt3]

I've pulled this from the other forum ... Researched by Ricochet.
Thought it might be good to have a fresh look at the crime scene.

This is the source url for the quote below.


http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/features/5270/




Bold type I have added, (underlined) being the pertinent point. At the time we couldn't clearly assess whether this event was at the command centre on the 23rd. No real pointers other than counting floors down from the top.

Which floor was 47 ?? The roof ? Was the command centre in the corner ??

Why was there "a cloud of smoke and debris" ??

Stann

I also found that picure here:

http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/displayi...m=11&pos=14

(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/normal_WTC2_Impact_Debris.jpg)

[KP50]

Righto back to my favourite thread.



This is just a snippet of the History Channel doco previously mentioned that was released soon after the event. Yet again someone refers to WTC7 being on fire at 9.30am. This reinforces my theory that in the first few months after 9/11, it was common knowledge that WTC7 was on fire before either tower collapse - but that this fact has been slowly expunged from the records as there was no actual clear video/photographic evidence to back it up.

This post has been edited by KP50: May 5 2009, 10:20 PM

[SwingDangler]

I can add this video http://911truth.ning.com/video/505920:Video:5704# showing what appear to be fires in WTC 7 before any collapse. Here is the video again hosted at a different site: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x46lt4_wtc7brand_news right around :40 seconds into the show. Not really a movie more so than a slide show. I would like to find the pictures they used for the movie.

[KP50]

I can add this video http://911truth.ning.com/video/505920:Video:5704# showing what appear to be fires in WTC 7 before any collapse. Here is the video again hosted at a different site: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x46lt4_wtc7brand_news right around :40 seconds into the show. Not really a movie more so than a slide show. I would like to find the pictures they used for the movie.

Morning SD - In Post 12 of this very thread, those photos are linked by dMole.

[dMz]

I also found that picure here:

http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/displayi...m=11&pos=14

(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/normal_WTC2_Impact_Debris.jpg)

That link has gone 404...

[Paul]

Hold on if wtc 7 was on fire at 9:30 am before either of the twin towers collapsed at 9:59 am this means that
the collapse of the north tower did not start the fires in wtc 7 as the result of falling debris from the North tower
hitting wtc 7 so this means NIST could be lying about the cause of fires, and doesn't this mean that there
is a high probability that the fires in wtc 7 might have been deliberately light?

Is there any other evidence that would indicate that that wtc 7 was on fire at 9:30 am
any other reports anything?

[KP50]

Paul,

I dig into this topic every so often and pretty much all the evidence I have found for fires around 9.30 is contained in this thread.

Sheirer's magazine article.
The testimony of the late Barry Jennings.
Photos appearing to show the fires.
The History Channel clip above.

If anyone else can find anything else, please add it.