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German Invasion, Members from a German forum ask questions

rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 10 2013, 02:37 AM) *
my questions....
was the FDR found?


Yes... (obviously).

Read here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html

and here....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/location_2

The question remains, was it the FDR from N644AA?

QUOTE
was the FDR analyzed and read out?


Of course... read here again....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10809177

We would not have those files if the NTSB did not provide them....

The question remains, was it the FDR from N644AA?


QUOTE
....was a parameter found which is telling something about the flight-deck door status?


Yes.

Read here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/american_77_h...impossible.html

here....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18405

here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18428

and here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/no-hard-evidence-aa77.html

QUOTE
since you told us that B757 UA93 didnt had a sensor at the flight-deck-door, it would be interesting which parameter (if) was written to the FDR.


Nothing was written to the FDR regarding the FLT DECK DOOR on United 93. It does not exist in the "UA93" data. This is because United Airlines did not have a FLT DECK DOOR sensor installed.


QUOTE
thanks in advance and regards
vienna


You're welcome... hope this helps...
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vienna
post Jul 10 2013, 06:02 AM
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hi rob

i have another statement, maybe you could help out....

ich zweifle mittlerweile sehr stark an deren Kompetenz und das sie wirklich solche Experten sind wie sie sich darstellen. Sonst hätten sie die NTSB längst verklagt.Sie sollen erstmal beweisen, dass ihre CSV Daten tatsächlich von der NTSB stammten und dass die NTSB dafür eine Garantie abgegeben hat dass die Werte stimmen.

in english:
i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, the NTSB would bring them to court (for telling such nonsens?)
they (p4T) should first show evidence, that the csv file, they claimed it is originally from NTSB, actually is really originally from NTSB officials and further approved by the NTSB.
(and additionally i think, he believes that the files are corrupted (manipulated) by somebody :-) maybe you? )


hope you understand this statement....

regards
vienna
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vienna
post Jul 10 2013, 06:43 AM
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sorry wrong translation

i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, the NTSB would bring them to court (for telling such nonsens?)

should be like that:
i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, they (P4T) would go to court against NTSB
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vienna
post Jul 10 2013, 08:34 AM
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hi rob....

what is the story behind this one??

Hmmm was sagen denn die P4T Anhänger dazu, das ihr Anführer offensichtlich Dinge verändert damit er keine Fehler eingestehen muss?


Balsamo took 767 speeds and placed them in an educational Vg diagram, removing the real speeds. Look at the T-37 graph. And then below at the T-38 diagram. Then see Balsamo's fake 767 Vg diagram and he/she admits it, but implies it is valid.

regards
vienna
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McMurdo
post Jul 10 2013, 09:33 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 05:39 AM) *
Hi McMurdo. Welcome to the forum and thank you for asking, it is a great question.

Here is the decode protocol for GPS according to Data Frame Layout 757-3b_1.txt used by the NTSB. Note the bold.
...
Bitval 0 Output: INOPER
Bitval 1 Output: OPER

...


Hi Rob,
so far so good but the question remains.
What data does the FDR record if there is no system installed on the aircraft but the FDR/DLF has a parameter to be recorded.
Have you checked that with AA, NTSB or the FDR manufacturer?

This post has been edited by McMurdo: Jul 10 2013, 09:34 AM
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rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 10 2013, 07:43 AM) *
should be like that:
i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, they (P4T) would go to court against NTSB


We cannot take the NTSB to court as we are not a victim nor does the NTSB have jurisdiction. Their work product was on behalf of the FBI (see video below). But we did sign an affidavit for a victim. Anyone competent in their research would already know this....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon_lawsuit.html

Keep in mind, the above case was thrown out before the evidence was even evaluated by the Judges. One of the Judges being a cousin of George Bush.


Call to the NTSB here...







QUOTE
Balsamo took 767 speeds and placed them in an educational Vg diagram, removing the real speeds. Look at the T-37 graph. And then below at the T-38 diagram. Then see Balsamo's fake 767 Vg diagram and he/she admits it, but implies it is valid.


Duhbunkers Unable To Plot Vg Diagram With Data, VG Diagram by P4T is Fake?
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21888

In short, if you know the V-speeds of an aircraft, and the G loading limits, you can plot your own V-G diagram for any aircraft. Flight Instructors do it everyday. Those who claim we "faked" the V-G diagram clearly know nothing about aviation.


QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 10:33 AM) *
What data does the FDR record if there is no system installed on the aircraft but the FDR/DLF has a parameter to be recorded.



They would be using a different Data Frame Layout which does not have equipment listed... such as Data Frame Layout 757-4 for "UA93" which did not have a FLT DECK DOOR sensor installed, nor is it in the Data Frame Layout.

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?
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McMurdo
post Jul 10 2013, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 04:14 PM) *
They would be using a different Data Frame Layout which does not have equipment listed... such as Data Frame Layout 757-4 for "UA93" which did not have a FLT DECK DOOR sensor installed, nor is it in the Data Frame Layout.

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?

Obviously they used a Data Frame Layout which did have FLT DECK DOOR Port and which did have a GPS Port.
The question is what would you read out of a FDR (0 or 1) if you use such Data Frame Layouts even if an aircraft doesn´t have these systems onboard? Can you answer that question?

This post has been edited by McMurdo: Jul 10 2013, 11:18 AM
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rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 12:17 PM) *
Obviously they used a Data Frame Layout which did have FLT DECK DOOR Port and which did have a GPS Port.
The question is what would you read out of a FDR (0 or 1) if you use such Data Frame Layouts even if an aircraft doesn´t have these systems onboard? Can you answer that question?



Why would anyone use a document to analyze something that does not exist? They would use 757-4 if the FLT DECK DOOR sensor was not installed as they did with "UA93". In other words, if the FLT DECK DOOR sensor was not installed, you would see nothing at all with regard to "FLT DECK DOOR". As is the case with "UA93"

I have answered your question 3 times now....

Can you answer my question?

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?


And for those having a hard time reading Kolstad's FAA credentials.... click here...



or click the attached thumbnail below...

Note the 757 and 767 type ratings.
Attached thumbnail(s)
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McMurdo
post Jul 10 2013, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 05:24 PM) *
Why would anyone use a document to analyze something that does not exist? They would use 757-4 if the FLT DECK DOOR senor was not installed as they did with "UA93". In other words, if the FLT DECK DOOR sensor was not installed, you would see nothing at all with regard to "FLT DECK DOOR". As is the case with "UA93"

I have answered your question 3 times now....

Is that your answer to a question which has only two possible answers (0 or 1)?


QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 05:24 PM) *
Can you answer my question?

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?

Unfortunately to answer this question you first need to answer the question above since we don´t know what a FDR records when a given system is not installed.
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rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 12:55 PM) *
Is that your answer to a question which has only two possible answers (0 or 1)?


Wrong. There is a 3rd answer. If a FLT DECK DOOR sensor is not installed, use a Data Frame Layout which does not include the FLT DECK DOOR. Such as DFL 757-4 in the case of "UA93".



QUOTE
Unfortunately to answer this question you first need to answer the question above since we don´t know what a FDR records when a given system is not installed.


In other words you cannot provide any evidence showing the FLT DECK DOOR open for a 'hijack' to occur. The only data we have shows the FLT DECK DOOR closed which makes it impossible for a "hijack".

Do you agree that if the data is accurate, then there is a serious problem with the official story?

And for those reading censura.net from the German forum, see here....

William D. Clinger - Physics Of Conspiracy - Debunked, Flight Path, Virgina DOT,
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10778894

Hope this helps....

by the way, i still cannot log in to the German forum.... when I try to login, it reverts back to the Forum index and says at the top -
"Werde jetzt kostenlos Mitglied um Diskussionen zu beobachten und Beiträge zu verfassen (Konto erstellen)."

Translation - "Become a free member now to observe discussions and draft posts (create account)."
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vienna
post Jul 10 2013, 01:16 PM
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Werde jetzt kostenlos Mitglied um Diskussionen zu beobachten und Beiträge zu verfassen (Konto erstellen)."

Translation - "Become a free member now to observe discussions and draft posts (create account)."

as you mentioned...create account.....possibly you should klick on this link...but i dont think its a good timinng now to join.
your reputation is in a bad shape....currently you wopuld face a lot questiuons about Will Clincers pages, discussing your theories and calculations for the G forces....

i am currently tying to analyze this all....since people which offending others by person are mostly the case of problems...i hope, i will figure out, who is causing problems in searching for the truth.

regrads
vienna
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McMurdo
post Jul 10 2013, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 06:04 PM) *
Wrong. There is a 3rd answer. If a FLT DECK DOOR sensor is not installed, use a Data Frame Layout which does not include the FLT DECK DOOR. Such as DFL 757-4 in the case of "UA93".

Wrong, the 3rd answer would be: I don´t know.

Do you agree that there is no GPS installed on AA77?
Do you agree that there is GPS data recorded on the FDR?
Do you agree that DFL 757-3b (757-3b_1)was used to decode the Data for this FDR?

What about all the other parameters listet under "not working" or "unconfirmed". Do they exist in this specific aircraft or does this abnomaly (system not installed but FDR readout) only occur for GPS and FLIGHT DECK DOOR?

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 06:04 PM) *
In other words you cannot provide any evidence showing the FLT DECK DOOR open for a 'hijack' to occur. The only data we have shows the FLT DECK DOOR closed which makes it impossible for a "hijack".

Do you agree that if the data is accurate, then there is a serious problem with the official story?

Since the data is listet under parameters "Not working" or "Unconfirmed" you cannot tell wether these data tells the truth or not, can you?

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 06:04 PM) *
by the way, i still cannot log in to the German forum.... when I try to login, it reverts back to the Forum index and says at the top -
"Werde jetzt kostenlos Mitglied um Diskussionen zu beobachten und Beiträge zu verfassen (Konto erstellen)."

Translation - "Become a free member now to observe discussions and draft posts (create account)."

I do have problems too loging on into this forum when i´m online with a mobile phone.

This post has been edited by McMurdo: Jul 10 2013, 01:22 PM
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rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 02:18 PM) *
Wrong, the 3rd answer would be: I don´t know.


You may not know. But we do, and I have tried to explain it to you. Apparently you just don't understand.

QUOTE
Do you agree that there is no GPS installed on AA77?


According to several American Airlines pilots I have spoken to, American 757's did not have GPS installed in 2001.

QUOTE
Do you agree that there is GPS data recorded on the FDR?


Yes. It is also apparent a GPS was in the aircraft due to the in flight alignment of the IRS system. In-flight alignment is impossible for an aircraft which does not have a GPS. Since American 757's did not have a GPS installed, yet the data shows it was installed and working, this is evidence that the data did not come from an American Airlines jet.

See more here...

Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/no-hard-evidence-aa77.html


QUOTE
Do you agree that DFL 757-3b (757-3b_1)was used to decode the Data for this FDR?


According to the NTSB, yes. However it was unable to decode some of the parameters. More evidence demonstrating that the data was not from an American Airlines 757. See link above.



QUOTE
Since the data is listet under parameters "Not working" or "Unconfirmed" you cannot tell wether these data tells the truth or not, can you?


Yes I can. Especially due to the fact the data shows an in-flight alignment of the IRS. See more in link provided above....

Radio Height is also listed under "Not working and unconfirmed", but when one decodes the raw file, it is working AND confirmed/cross checked.



Radar Altitude Confirms True Altitude, Too high to hit light poles/pentagon

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4801

Keep in mind Pressure Altitude is confirmed and working and listed as a validated parameter by the NTSB. Only one problem, the altitude is too high to hit the Pentagon even in the data provided by Warren Stutt.





QUOTE
I do have problems too loging on into this forum when i´m online with a mobile phone.


I am not on mobile phone. I am on the same computer I used to create the account and made my first post at your German forum. I can no longer login.


Do you agree that if the data is accurate, then there is a serious problem with the official story?

Why do you evade my questions?
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McMurdo
post Jul 10 2013, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 07:35 PM) *
You may not know. But we do, and I have tried to explain it to you. Apparently you just don't understand.

Ok lets go.
QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 07:35 PM) *
According to several American Airlines pilots I have spoken to, American 757's did not have GPS installed in 2001.

I agree.
QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 07:35 PM) *
Yes.

I agree
QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 07:35 PM) *
According to the NTSB, yes.

I agree.

So what do we have. We have a FDR, we have systems not installed on that aircraft and we have a Data Frame Layout which recorded data even from non existing systems.
Assuming all this is true first logical question would be: what data does this FDR record for non existing Systems when you use this DFL? If you cannot answer this question all your conclusions concerning open doors etc. are useless.

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 07:35 PM) *
Do you agree that if the data is accurate, then there is a serious problem with the official story?

No, what would be the alternative scenario?

This post has been edited by McMurdo: Jul 10 2013, 02:06 PM
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rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 03:05 PM) *
So what do we have. We have a FDR, we have systems not installed on that aircraft and we have a Data Frame Layout which recorded data even from non existing systems.


I know English is your second language. But your above statement doesnt make much sense. The Data Frame Layout is a document, a database. It does not record anything.

QUOTE
Assuming all this is true first logical question would be: what data does this FDR record for non existing Systems when you use this DFL? If you cannot answer this question all your conclusions concerning open doors etc. are useless.


The data will not be able to be decoded. The result is non-sensical. It is further evidence that the data is not from an American Airlines 757. Again, please see the link I provided to you above.

QUOTE
No, what would be the alternative scenario?


No? So if the altitude is too high to hit the Pentagon and the altitude is accurate (and validated according to the NTSB)... then there isn't a problem with the govt story in your opinion? Really?

Well a long and growing list of Aviation professionals disagree with you.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

How much flight time do you have?
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vienna
post Jul 10 2013, 02:20 PM
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rob...hi

i wanna go thru the points...step by step.....


first and in my opinion a very big indicator is.....do we have an identification of which aircraft this FDR data was taken from???

because i agree....an FDR MUST have identification, since when 2 similar plane crash, you have to know which data belongs to which plane....

so....do we have an identification in the FDR data?

if not....why not? ist ther possible scenario, that can tell, the id would dissapear or deleted?


regards
vienna

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rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 02:30 PM
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Hi vienna...

QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 10 2013, 03:20 PM) *
first and in my opinion a very big indicator is.....do we have an identification of which aircraft this FDR data was taken from???


No....

See more here...

Flight Data Expert Confirmation: No Evidence Linking FDR Data to American 77

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/Dennis-Cimino-AA77-FDR.html

here...

Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/no-hard-evidence-aa77.html

and here....

9/11 Aircraft 'black Box' Serial Numbers Mysteriously Absent

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11066



QUOTE
because i agree....an FDR MUST have identification, since when 2 similar plane crash, you have to know which data belongs to which plane....


agreed.



QUOTE
so....do we have an identification in the FDR data?


No... see links above.


QUOTE
if not....why not? ist ther possible scenario, that can tell, the id would dissapear or deleted?


If I had the answer to that question... we would not be here. smile.gif

The data does not support the govt story, nor is there any evidence linking the data to N644AA... and in fact the data provides evidence it could not have come from N644AA.

This is one of the many reasons why we have a growing list of aviation professionals calling for a new investigation.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core


.... others make excuses as to their bias.
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vienna
post Jul 10 2013, 02:45 PM
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okay thx for clearification.


next clear question....does the DFL for 757/200 which should be used to read out data for 757 at that time (2001) containing GPS data?

regards
vienna
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rob balsamo
post Jul 10 2013, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 10 2013, 03:45 PM) *
okay thx for clearification.


next clear question....does the DFL for 757/200 which should be used to read out data for 757 at that time (2001) containing GPS data?

regards
vienna


According to the NTSB... yes. That is the DFL they used to decode the file. However, according to several American Airlines pilots, American 757's did not have a GPS in 2001. But anyone who looks at the data can see the GPS as OPERational... and see it actually working when it aligns the IRS in flight.

Again.... this is further evidence that the data did not come from an American Airlines 757.
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vienna
post Jul 10 2013, 02:56 PM
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was the DFL used by AA which had obviously problems to read the data, the same as the NTSB had used???

regards
vienna

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