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About Passengers...? Didnt Hit Pentagon?, Then where are they?!?

voldemor
post Jul 2 2007, 04:46 PM
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The most important question according to me .... where did the passengers of the flight American 77 go? - because there was a real Boeing 757 that took of from the airport that day. If it did not hit the Pentagone, where did they go - passengers and plane ? Where are the facts or topics about passengers and plane. Thanks.

This post has been edited by johndoeX: Jul 2 2007, 05:28 PM
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painter
post Jul 2 2007, 05:07 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

This is the first question 90% of people unfamiliar with the controversy surrounding the Pentagon incident ask us. The simple fact of the matter is, we do not know, nor do we claim to. The government tells us that they were killed in the impact. They also tell us they have identified most if not all the passengers via DNA. They've also said that most of the plane vaporized leaving no debris with identification numbers that would allow us to positively identify the plane. How DNA samples could withstand such an inferno is a question that goes unanswered. Where the DNA samples came from if they didn't come from the Pentagon is another unanswered question. There are many unanswered questions -- and that is the problem.

We rely upon our government and its agencies to tell us the truth. What 9/11 reveals more clearly than any event in recent history is that government intentionally deceives the public and uses the media to reinforce the view of things they want us to have. Why do they do that? Why do we have contradictory information in the form of a flight data recorder whose data does not match the physical evidence of downed light poles and damage field within the Pentagon? Why do we have Pentagon police officers who say they saw the plane and firmly believe the plane they saw hit the Pentagon yet, it, too, does not correspond to the physical damage?

My contention is that 9/11 in all its aspects has the earmarks of an on-going black-op, false-flag, counterintelligence operation. So far as I understand these operations, they are set up in such a way that no one, even most people on the 'inside' (except for a few, yet to be identified) know what exactly is going on. High security matters are on a "need to know" basis and people are encouraged not to look beyond the frame of their specified role. This allows for "plausible deniability." For example, there is good reason to question how much of what happened was known in advance by Bush. Clearly, he was not in a control position on 9/11. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Generals Myers, Eberhart and Arnold, on the other hand, clearly were.

Without a thorough and independent investigation with judicial "teeth" which allows us to put people under oath, cross examine them, and offer immunity in exchange for testimony -- not to mention some degree of safety -- there is little chance that we will ever know the full truth of what happened to the passengers of Flight 77 -- or, indeed, anything else about 9/11.

What we do know now is that the government is releasing evidence that is contradictory. The point of this, I believe, is if they can't keep a lid on this and keep everyone believing unquestioningly the official story, to keep the population in a state of uncertainty. The result is 9/11 will 'fall down the memory hole' and, as time goes on, look more and more like just another "conspiracy theory" which can neither be proven nor disproved. This is what they did with the major political assassinations of the last century, what they've done with the anthrax scare and what they are doing with 9/11. MEANWHILE, the perpetrators of these events WALK and plan their next operation -- all to our peril.

I'm sorry if this answer is neither reassuring or satisfactory -- but if you've only lived in the perception of reality constructed for you by corporate owned media -- you are now faced with the metaphor put forward in the movie, "The Matrix." Do you want to take the blue pill and wake up tomorrow believing whatever you want to believe or do you want to take the red pill and discover just how deep the rabbit hole goes? Personally, I took the red pill long, long ago. I'm quite used to the ambiguity of uncertainty and have learned to appreciate it as a way of looking at the world. I don't claim to know the full truth -- only bits and pieces. Enough, nonetheless, to be certain without any doubt whatsoever, whoever did it and however they pulled it off, it was not 19 Arab hijackers with incredible luck. <-- THAT is the conspiracy theory.
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rob balsamo
post Jul 2 2007, 05:22 PM
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Didnt get a chance to read painters' reply... however i thank you for asking this question because now i have a link to send 90% of the people who ask....

Where did the plane and pax go? Thats a GREAT Question...!


I say we all gather together and march up the steps of the Capitol and ask.. because according to their own information they provided via the NTSB... American Airlines Flight 77 did not hit the pentagon (or the 5 light poles on Washington Blvd).

Who wants to join in asking the above question to people who should be asking the same themselves (ie. Congress, MSM.. et al).....?


(if painter did cover this in his post above, my reply is your summary)
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rob balsamo
post Jul 2 2007, 05:27 PM
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Matter of fact.. im pinning this topic.. thanks!
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Cary
post Jul 2 2007, 05:30 PM
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What Painter said.

Rob, where's the link you talked about?? I'd love to see that. And yes, I'd love to go to the Capitol and ask that question with the presentation of the NTSB FDR for flight 77.
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painter
post Jul 2 2007, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (johndoeX @ Jul 2 2007, 02:22 PM)
Didnt get a chance to read painters' reply... however i thank you for asking this question because now i have a link to send 90% of the people who ask....

Where did the plane and pax go? Thats a GREAT Question...!


I say we all gather together and march up the steps of the Capitol and ask.. because according to their own information they provided via the NTSB... American Airlines Flight 77 did not hit the pentagon (or the 5 light poles on Washington Blvd).

Who wants to join in asking the above question to people who should be asking the same themselves (ie. Congress, MSM.. et al).....?
<s>

You're exactly right, Rob. We need to ask the people who DO know. But who, precisely are they?

I think there is a whole area of research in the DNA evidence question. We should request that information via an FOIA -- including the chain of custody of that evidence. We can march up the steps of any government building and demand answers but, of course, we won't get any that way for one simple reason -- the number of people who might know the answer can be counted on one hand and they're either unknown to us or shielded by security clearance status and/or plausible deniability. Ask the people who did the DNA match testing and they'll tell you they got it from the FBI. Ask the FBI and what will you get? Same non-answer we've gotten to our questions about the FDR. Anyone in any position of authority knows that this is a "national security" issue. Most in government don't know very much outside their own role and those that do use "matters of national security" and "plausible deniability" as a deflection of any pointed question.

It is a cover-up. What we need is about six million people to march on Langly demanding an end to the terror THEY are perpetrating on the American people. What does a subject population (which is what we clearly are now) DO when the national security apparatus becomes the all-seeing force that controls all, citizens and government officials alike? There's only one answer and you're not going to get it in Washington DC or from this government as it is currently constituted.

Oh how much different this world might be if they hadn't shot Kennedy. I've lamented that death, its cover-up and inevitable consequences since I was 16 years old -- and that was only just the beginning. There is a reason why we have laws against murder and treason -- and what we have now is the consequence of not taking the action that should have been taken nearly half a century ago.
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drek
post Aug 24 2007, 07:07 PM
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I was awake and watching the BBC that morning (it was after midnight, maybe closer to 1 am, I was in Auckland NZ, so a day ahead).

I saw the initial shots of smoke and flames from the first plane strike, and the second impact (but from an angle that obscured the second plane). The newsdesk was also unsure what the second explosion was, and it took a few minutes for the information to arrive, that it had been a second impact and was definitely looking more like some kind of attack...
When the American feed story switched live to the Pentagon, I immediately thought "the plane must have missed the front of the building", and I believed that the smoke (puzzlingly there wasn't much smoke) meant that the building's interior must be severely and extensively damaged.
Imagine my surprise when later pictures showed no such thing. Also I don't recall seeing that big "gash" or whatever, that appears in later pictures and is the supposed "entry point". Then again, I can't say that the camera angles from the initial Pentagon shots should have shown this. The big question I had at the time though, was "how come they let a plane fly into the Pentagon?". Then the story went back to NY and I watched the towers collapse!!??? The whole thing kinda looked like a disaster movie.
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amazed!
post Aug 26 2007, 09:47 PM
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Voldemor

One possible explanation of "what happened to the passengers", assuming they exist at all, is that they were placed into the Federal Witness Protection Program.

It does exist, and it does recycle and generate identities for people.

Of course there is no evidence of that, but the government manages to control the evidence very well. In any event, it would be easy to do.
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SPreston
post Aug 27 2007, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 26 2007, 09:47 PM)
Voldemor

One possible explanation of "what happened to the passengers", assuming they exist at all, is that they were placed into the Federal Witness Protection Program.

It does exist, and it does recycle and generate identities for people.

Of course there is no evidence of that, but the government manages to control the evidence very well.  In any event, it would be easy to do.

And the Federal Witness Security Program along with gag-orders are quite often used to protect 'National Security'.
Speaking of the devil, AG Alberto Gonzales resigned today.

QUOTE (US ANTI-TERRORISM LAWS)
§ 3076. Eligibility for witness security program.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/terrorism/terrorism3.htm

QUOTE (Witness Security Program)
TITLE 18 > PART II > CHAPTER 204 > § 3076 § 3076. Eligibility for witness security program
Any individual (and the immediate family of such individual) who furnishes information which would justify a reward by the Attorney General under this chapter or by the Secretary of State under section 36 of the State Department Basic Authorities Act of 1956 may, in the discretion of the Attorney General, participate in the Attorney General’s witness security program authorized under chapter 224 of this title.

§ 3077. Definitions
As used in this chapter, the term—
(1) “act of terrorism” means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331;
(2) “United States person” means—
(A) a national of the United States as defined in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(22));
(B an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States as defined in section 101(a)(20) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(20));
© any person within the United States;
(D) any employee or contractor of the United States Government, regardless of nationality, who is the victim or intended victim of an act of terrorism by virtue of that employment;
(E) a sole proprietorship, partnership, company, or association composed principally of nationals or permanent resident aliens of the United States; and
(F) a corporation organized under the laws of the United States, any State, the District of Columbia, or any territory or possession of the United States, and a foreign subsidiary of such corporation;
(3) “United States property” means any real or personal property which is within the United States or, if outside the United States, the actual or beneficial ownership of which rests in a United States person or any Federal or State governmental entity of the United States;
(4) “United States”, when used in a geographical sense, includes Puerto Rico and all territories and possessions of the United States;
(5) “State” includes any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any other possession or territory of the United States;
(6) “government entity” includes the Government of the United States, any State or political subdivision thereof, any foreign country, and any state, provincial, municipal, or other political subdivision of a foreign country;
(7) “Attorney General” means the Attorney General of the United States or that official designated by the Attorney General to perform the Attorney General’s responsibilities under this chapter; and
(8) “act of espionage” means an activity that is a violation of—
(A) section 793, 794, or 798 of this title; or
(B section 4 of the Subversive Activities Control Act of 1950.
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Carl Bank
post Oct 30 2007, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Cary @ Jul 3 2007, 12:30 AM)
Rob, where's the link you talked about?? I'd love to see that.

Cary, try to imagine to be in Rob's shoes, being asked
this question "But if AA77 didn't hit... Where did it go...?
on a daily basis by everyone who comes across the truth
for the first time....

What would you do in Rob's position?

You'd certainly direct them towards a link.

And given the fact that this mystery isn't solved
it couldn't be a link to an article where the answer
is written down, but it could be a link to a discussion
about this FAQ. Maybe in some forum?! tongue.gif

with southern accent and patience for Cary: Carl
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JGSJW
post Apr 8 2008, 09:12 PM
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I am new to this forum and having trouble navigating the system. Many of the arguments I see on Pandoras Box seem to have merit.....however....what puzzles me is this:
If Flt 77 never hit the Pentagon ...where did it go? why is the plane and it's passengers gone. I am not criticising....I am simply trying to understand.
Thanks, JGSJW



rb edit: This post and the one below was split and merged from another topic.

This post has been edited by rob balsamo: Apr 8 2008, 11:55 PM
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SPreston
post Apr 8 2008, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE (JGSJW)
I am new to this forum and having trouble navigating the system. Many of the arguments I see on Pandoras Box seem to have merit.....however....what puzzles me is this:
If Flt 77 never hit the Pentagon ...where did it go? why is the plane and it's passengers gone. I am not criticising....I am simply trying to understand.
Thanks, JGSJW

Somewhere else. Flight 77 apparently never took off from Dulles. Or if it somehow did take off unofficially, it might have ended up in Cleveland. Regardless, Flight 77 never did come back into Virginia.

QUOTE (Washington Dulles Airport)
AA 09/11/2001 0077 UNKNOW LAX 08:10 00:00 0326 0000 0 00:00 0000

Apparently AA Flight 77@8:10am along with 13 other aircraft never took off from Washington Dulles and the tail numbers of all 14 aircraft were listed as UNKNOW which must be routine for aircraft which do not take off. Of course all 13 of the other aircraft were held because their departure times were after national ground stop (9:25 am), except for Flight Number 573@9:23am which was likely late out on the taxiway and held on the ground by national ground stop (9:25 am). - here

The Department of Transportation RITA Bureau of Transportation Statistics - here
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rob balsamo
post Apr 8 2008, 11:58 PM
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QUOTE (JGSJW @ Apr 8 2008, 10:12 PM) *
I am new to this forum and having trouble navigating the system. Many of the arguments I see on Pandoras Box seem to have merit.....however....what puzzles me is this:
If Flt 77 never hit the Pentagon ...where did it go? why is the plane and it's passengers gone. I am not criticising....I am simply trying to understand.
Thanks, JGSJW



rb edit: This post and the one below was split and merged from another topic.



Welcome to the forum JGSJW. I split and merged your post here. Hopefully the above posts will be able to answer your question.
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elreb
post Apr 9 2008, 12:07 PM
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As I had pointed out in the following thread; flight 0077 N644AA can not be found months before 911 therefore it appears to have been out of official service at the time.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=10488

On the other hand if anyone went into a protection program flight 1547 (N321AA) to Orlando would have been a good plane to be on.

Where do people get the idea that a real plane took off that day? How come the family members who provided the DNA samples did not collect their $1.8 million?
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Sanders
post Apr 9 2008, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (JGSJW @ Apr 12 2008, 09:12 PM) *
I am new to this forum and having trouble navigating the system. Many of the arguments I see on Pandoras Box seem to have merit.....however....what puzzles me is this:
If Flt 77 never hit the Pentagon ...where did it go? why is the plane and it's passengers gone. I am not criticising....I am simply trying to understand.
Thanks, JGSJW


You seem sincere in your quest to understand. The Pilots' site officially doesn't speculate ... but here on the forum we all have our pet theories that slip out once in a while - I'm maybe the worst offender rolleyes.gif - but hey, I'm not a real pilot, and trying to fit the pieces together into a hypothesis is something I truly enjoy. But the Pentagon is a tough nut to crack. You've got all of those clocks, which stopped 5 minutes before the official impact time (which was changed and moved forward several times) - with no rational explanation.

Was it a bomb, was there a missle of some sort that did the initial damage? Did the real flight 77 "fly-over" the Pentagon and land at nearby Reagan Int. airport? Or maybe a plane that was not the actual flight 77 did the fly-over to confuse witnesses? I really don't know - I only know that what happened was not what we were told, it was more like a magic trick, with an absurdly large percentage of both witnesses and alleged passengers strangely connected to media (USA today - in the case of witnesses only), government agencies, a neo-con think tank, defense contractors and the military. Check in the Library under "passengers", you might find some interesting reading. There is a pretty savy pathologist out there who suggests that many of the deceased were potential whistle blowers, who had the bad luck to be listed as passengers on a "hijacked" jet. (I haven't checked recently, some of the links may have gone 404.)

I have a pretty good idea who the planners were, who was involved hands-on with the 9-11 event, why they did it, even from how long back they were planning it. But I don't know HOW they did it. Get used to not knowing - NONE of us know. There's too much disinformation out there, and too many red-herrings. I suspect if we really knew we would be in awe of how simply and cleverly it was orchestrated.

2 cents
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dMz
post Jun 8 2008, 01:44 PM
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Someone recently showed me something about Stonehenge that is 9/11, passenger/victim, Pentagon, Shanksville, and WTC related.

Sorry- it is at Fox Noise from May 30, 2008. The video is "Ancient Burial Ground?"":

http://search2.foxnews.com/search?access=p...urial%20Ground#

Related article:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,360121,00.html

Note the response when the propagandist "news" anchor attempts to tie in the 9/11 victims (video counter with 02:20 remaining). Dr. Michael Baden, Forensic Pathologist states that cremation of human bodies requires 2500 deg Fahrenheit for at least 30 minutes. Has anyone got a way to archive this clip and/or get a transcript?

EDIT: Also house fires only reach 1700 F and the passengers did not get vaporized by airplane fires, according to Dr. Baden in the above clip.
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JFK
post Jun 8 2008, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Jun 8 2008, 02:44 PM) *
Has anyone got a way to archive this clip and/or get a transcript?


Downloading the hi quality version now.... 27.2 Mb. wink.gif

Edit to add - I use this for snagging streaming video - http://www.orbitdownloader.com/index.htm wink.gif

This post has been edited by JFK: Jun 8 2008, 02:01 PM
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richard cranium
post Jun 8 2008, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Jun 6 2008, 04:44 PM) *
Someone recently showed me something about Stonehenge that is 9/11, passenger/victim, Pentagon, Shanksville, and WTC related.

Sorry- it is at Fox Noise from May 30, 2008. The video is "Ancient Burial Ground?"":

http://search2.foxnews.com/search?access=p...urial%20Ground#

Related article:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,360121,00.html

Note the response when the propagandist "news" anchor attempts to tie in the 9/11 victims (video counter with 02:20 remaining). Dr. Michael Baden, Forensic Pathologist states that cremation of human bodies requires 2500 deg Fahrenheit for at least 30 minutes. Has anyone got a way to archive this clip and/or get a transcript?

EDIT: Also house fires only reach 1700 F and the passengers did not get vaporized by airplane fires, according to Dr. Baden in the above clip.


Thank you Dr. Michael Baden. Yet another preposterous explanation by the government challenged.
It seems lately that everyday I learn something new. Thanks dMole for the info.
rc

ps. I just found my copy of National Geographic. I think I'll try and read it tonight after the Lakers beat the Celtics!
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Ricochet
post Jun 8 2008, 03:19 PM
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I found an interesting report from USA Today
QUOTE
One, a TWA flight, refuses to land in Pittsburgh and wants to fly on toward Washington. Another, a Midwest Express flight, disappears from radar over West Virginia. And three jets over the Atlantic Ocean are sending out distress signals, the Coast Guard reports.

Three jets sending out distress signals over the Atlantic. This is the only time I have ever heard this report. Which 3 aircraft were in distress? 11,175,77?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-0...er-daytwo_x.htm
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dMz
post Jun 9 2008, 03:40 AM
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There are a few problems with the DNA "identification" claims, beside the obvious chain of evidence issues.

Quite simply heat (and many chemicals) de-nature proteins and nucleic acids (of which deoxyribonucleic acid is one).

"Denaturation is a major change in protein or nucleic acid structure by application of some external stress or compound for example, treatment of proteins with strong acids or bases, high concentrations of inorganic salts, organic solvents (e.g., alcohol or chloroform), or heat. If proteins in a living cell are denatured, this results in disruption of cell activity and possibly cell death. Denatured proteins can exhibit a wide range of characteristics, from loss of solubility to communal aggregation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_(biochemistry)

According to:

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/cont...full/64/24/8839
-----
Evidence for the Involvement of Double-Strand Breaks in Heat-Induced Cell Killing
Akihisa Takahashi1, Hideki Matsumoto4, Kosuke Nagayama1, Mutsuko Kitano1, Sayako Hirose1, Hidenori Tanaka1, Eiichiro Mori1, Nobuhiro Yamakawa2, Jun-ichi Yasumoto2, Kazue Yuki3, Ken Ohnishi1 and Takeo Ohnishi1

Departments of 1 Biology, 2 Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, and 3 Otorhinolaryngology, Nara Medical University School of Medicine, Nara, Japan; and 4 Department of Experimental Radiology and Health Physics, Division of International Social and Health Science, Faculty of Medical Science, University of Fukui, Fukui, Japan
-----
"The enhancement of radiosensitization by heat (4) and the existence of an inflection point in Arrhenius plots of cell killing after exposure to heat (5) may indicate that heat-induced denaturation and damage to proteins are critical in heat-induced cell killing. Heat-induced protein denaturation results in the disruption of centrosome-dependent mitosis (6) and multiple nuclear matrix-dependent functions [e.g., DNA replication, DNA transcription, mRNA processing, and DNA repair (7) ]. Another possible target involved in cell killing is cellular DNA because it has been reported that heat induces structural alterations and strand breaks in chromatin DNA. Many investigators have reported that cellular DNA strand breaks are detected in heat-treated cells using alkaline elution methods (8) , alkaline unwinding methods (9) , in situ nick translation methods (10) , and pulse-field gel electrophoresis methods (11) . However, these conventional physical methods are not sensitive enough to clarify the relationship between cell killing and DSBs after heat treatment. Hence, DNA strand break formation was considered to be just a component or part of the pathway of events leading to heat-induced cell killing. For the technical reasons noted above, it was almost impossible to show differences in the biological effects of heat- and radiation-induced DSBs (Double Strand Breaks)....."
------
4. Kampinga HH, Dikomey E Hyperthermic radiosensitization: mode of action and clinical relevance. Int J Radiat Biol 2001;77:399-408.[CrossRef][Medline]
5. Dewey WC Arrhenius relationships from the molecule and cell to the clinic. Int J Hyperthermia 1994;10:457-83.[Medline]
6. Nakahata K, Miyakoda M, Suzuki K, Kodama S, Watanabe M Heat shock induces centrosomal dysfunction, and causes non-apoptotic mitotic catastrophe in human tumour cells. Int J Hyperthermia 2002;18:332-43.[CrossRef][Medline]
7. Roti Roti JL, Kampinga HH, Malyapa RS, et al Nuclear matrix as a target for hyperthermic killing of cancer cells. Cell Stress Chaperones 1998;3:245-55.[CrossRef][Medline]
8. Warters RL, Henle KJ DNA degradation in Chinese hamster ovary cells after exposure to hyperthermia. Cancer Res 1982;42:4427-32.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
9. Dikomey E Effect of hyperthermia at 42°C and 45°C on repair of radiation-induced DNA strand breaks in CHO cells. Int J Radiat Biol Relat Stud Phys Chem Med 1982;41:603-14.[Medline]
10. Anai H, Maehara Y, Sugimachi K In situ nick translation method reveals DNA strand scission in HeLa cells following heat treatment. Cancer Lett 1988;40:33-8.[CrossRef][Medline]
11. Wong RS, Dynlacht JR, Cedervall B, Dewey WC Analysis by pulsed-field gel electrophoresis of DNA double-strand breaks induced by heat and/or X-irradiation in bulk and replicating DNA of CHO cells. Int J Radiat Biol 1995;68:141-52.[Medline]
---------------------

The above is admitted by the following DNA analysis lab, but they later vaguely state:

"Sometimes, the nuclear DNA present in samples is destroyed by environmental conditions (e.g. heat and moisture). Because there are many more copies of mitochondrial DNA than nuclear DNA in a cell, enough mitochondrial DNA may remain for analysis, even though the nuclear DNA has been destroyed. Mitochondrial DNA analysis was critical in the identification of human remains from the World Trade Center tragedy on September 11, 2001."

http://www.hitdna.com/faq.htm

Are we to believe that heat that effectively vaporized an aluminum, steel, and titanium Boeing 757 airframe and impact that pentrated into the middle brick/mortar "C-ring" wall will leave enough mitochondrial DNA intact to conclusively identify the number of AA77 victims claimed?
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