Deliberate Misrepresentation of Evidence, Videos carefully crafted to be easily debunked Options

[Natasha]

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ THIS THREAD FIRST.



Hi painter, and everybody,


I am a new member. I am not a pilot, and I am no scientist by a long shot either. I promise to do my very best, to be both respectful and patient though, and I think I have something to offer.

A lot of people have been extremely turned off, to the ideas Fred and Killtown have been misrepresenting and purposely presenting very poorly, and I hope it is not too late to help undo the damage they have done.

I sure wish I had read, the thread this split off from, quite a bit sooner!

I was still very new to the ideas Fred and company were presenting, and I had just finished watching his 911 Octopus movie, for like the 10th time, when I finally joined their forum just a couple of months ago.

Back when I was a member of Killtown's forum, before they banned me for political reasons, I remember that Fred started a thread about what happened here.

As usual when one of them gets banned, they go to their forum and begin bragging about being banned, by the "nasty fascists" at LC and Pilots etc, and they then rave on and on about how 'they' don't ban people for political reasons.

The hell they don't though. They banned me, because I noticed this pattern, and I began asking them about the other HUGE PR blunders they ALL make on a regular basis also.

I also believe that the videos Fred has been making, are carefully crafted to be easily debunked later, when whoever oversees their modified limited hangout operation [cough Rick Siegel] gives them the word.

Please go here, and read my Rick Siegel's Lunatic Fringe: Todays NAZIS smear you as antisemtic thread on the Loose Change Forum about this.

Odd indeed, how the "nasty fascists" at LC, have left it up for a few days now. But if it's gone, then please go to my Youtube channel, linked to in my signature, and then read my comments section etc.


Thank you for letting me have my say. I hope I can be of service here.

Best to all of you,

Natasha

This post has been edited by Natasha: Aug 18 2007, 01:34 AM

[painter]

While I basically agree with your above statement, I am yet convinced that many of the videos Fred, aka BSreg, has been making, are carefully crafted to be easily debunked later.

That was my first impression. But it is hard to tell. These characters do seem genuinely 'adolescent' to me. Remember, Dylan Avery was 19 when he began making Loose Change. So it is also conceivable in my mind that they just don't 'get it'. However, the fact that this is being shepherded by Siegal -- who I once trusted but have come to distrust enormously -- puts it into a class of uncertainty. I'll just say I think your suspicions are well founded.

I don't think Loose Change has a direct link to Fred's pals over at 911movementdotorg. If there is one I am unaware of it.

Fred's pals are the ones shepherded by Siegel, and I believe theirs is a CIA operation.

The Loose Change boys are shepherded by Alex Jones. I suspect that Jones is Army Intelligence or DIA, working with MI6, but I have only a feeling about that and no real evidence. He sure is into FUD though. What agenda does that serve?

I wasn't suggesting there was a direct connection between LC and "movement" or "researchers." My point was that these videos are often put together by enthusiastic but not very sophisticated young men. Sorry, I don't know what "FUD" is. My intuition tells me you may be right about the AI/DIA connection, but why MI6?

I mean it is one thing to inform people, and it is quite another to bark relentlessly, be afraid be very afraid!

This is one of the things that I don't like about the so called "patriots movement" in general. AJ is the prime example but we could put quite a few others in this category. We need to be empowered not just driven nuts by the looming catastrophe.

As a Christian, he should also know that the people need to be warned to HIDE in the millions of acres of American wilderness, rather than hint that they should resist with arms as he does. Resistance will meet with death and imprisonment in the camps. They have said that they want to reduce the population. They clearly also want more police state powers, and an armed insurrection will swiftly accomplish both for the NWO.

Well, I don't know about hiding in the wilderness -- I guess if your highest priority is 'survival' that might make a little sense but not for most people who are used to microwaving their pre-packaged dinner. I'm not in this for survival. Whether I survive this or not is sort of irrelevant to me.

Ask yourselves this.

Why has the government gone to so much trouble, just to discredit something, that is not even credible in the first place?

I mean think about it.

Believe me, I have. I believe there is something very real here -- something worthy of our time and discussion.

The most fundamental, glaring evidence, is this.

If videos depict planes, doing something impossible, then surely the videos must be fake.

That is a reasonable statement. However, the question is did the planes do something impossible? and that is the thing to be proven, not assumed.

Proof exists that flimsy aluminum aircraft, with such low sectional density made also of brittle low density materials, could not, as the vidoes depict, smoothly penetrate steel walls and several steel reinforced concrete floors, edge on at that, without so much as breaking the wing tanks or shearing the wings off. So then the videos must be fake.

Here is proof, from a very knowledgable person, that the planes could not have smoothly flown right in, only to explod after they entered the building. That is just not possible. You know better than that. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I think that is correct but the simple fact of the matter is I'm not yet certain of it in the same way I'm certain of other things. Perhaps I need to be educated more. I also need an explanation to BoneZ's question regarding the steel bent inward indicating that something DID pass into the structure. Unless, of course, we're back, once again, in the realm of VTF -- which your PI link above has set out to disprove.

Have you seen that Haiti UFO video everyone is talking about. Now see how easy it was to fake. I am sure, that what the military had in 2001, was far superior to what is available to us even now.

Yes. This has been discussed in a thread in this forum:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=8323

Somebody even dosed David Shayler, the ex MI5 OP who was such an incredibly effective speaker for 911 truth, with some sort of powerful drug to drive him over the edge. Is it just a coincidence, that they did this to him, soon after he began speaking about NPT and media complicity? I doubt it very much. They only seek to destroy, whoever and whatever, is a real threat to them.

You seem very sure of this -- what is your source?

Common sense and intuition applied to the available evidence.

David Shayler, as an ex MI5 OP was very credible, and more and more people began listening to him. The many videos of his powerful testimony, coupled with his calm manner and his command of the facts, even while under pressure during live TV interviews side by side with those very skeptical, certainly seems to confirm that he was psychologically sound.

Haven't you heard? Shortly after David Shayler begins to speak about NPT and people start listenming, he suddenly looses it, and then he literally declares himself the Messiah.

The video below does not make him appear to be psychotic. Rather it suggests that drugs and hypnosis, over some period of time, were used.

See this brief video interview of David Shayler under mind control.

He is clearly under mind control in that video. He himself said, that he was led, to his new awareness, by a "psychic". I think this psychic is really an MI6 psychologist and hypnotist. If they disappeared, or killed him, that would only deepen his credibility wouldn't it?

People would say. Holy CRAP, David Shayler disappeared, was murdered, died under suspicious circumstances! It must be true! The best shot MI6 had, was to contain Shayler by destroying his credibility, and what better way than to make him an obvious loopy old crank.

By the way. The Siegel mission, Fred and the boys, just dismisses him now as a tragic figure. None of this has occurred to them. What a coincidence.

They didn't take him out because he is a threat to 911 Truth. They took him out because he is a threat to the real 911 perps.

First of all, since you are new, you don't yet realize how much of this kind of thing gets discussed in this and other forums outside of this "alternative theories" sub forum. There is a thread on the Shaylelr incident somewhere. I'm too pooped to hunt for the link right now. [ EDIT: here is the link to that thread: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=8267 ]

It isn't ignorance of the case that brought up the question. What I asked for was evidence of your contention, specifically, that he was drugged or manipulated. I understand you are intuitive and one smart cookie. So am I. So are others here. However, it doesn't serve us to go about saying that we know things that we merely suspect. I see this "overreaching" (drawing conclusions before hard evidence is available to confirm them) a lot here and I've seen it come back to bite us in the butt. You say such and so is "clearly" true -- as if no further evidence is needed. Well, not so fast. It is one thing to state a suspiscion that such-and-so may be true based on observation of numerous indicators; it is quite another to say that something is, unequivocally, fact based solely on what seems "reasonable" from those indicators. There not only "may be" but most certainly "are" many, many things that we do not know about Shayler and his motivations. And until we know more anyone can generate a hypothesis based on these indicators. The hypothesis is the thing to be proven.

All that said, I understand your point regarding Shayler and the seeming coincidence of this happening after he began to speak about the NPT. Yes, that is certainly suspicious. No argument there. As you get to know me better you'll learn that, like all good Capricorns (I'm actually a triple Capricorn), I move slowly but relentlessly most of the time. Now and then I'll take a big JUMP that leaves everyone else in the dust but usually that is after months of careful observation.

<s>
Fred and the guys sure lied about you folks! Then again, it was obvious, that Fred wanted to be banned. That way he did not have to withstand your enquiry about his FAKED video. That is obviously what that was about, and the propaganda value back at their "forum" is priceless. Next time don't let him pull that ruse on you. OK?

Banning them only serves their agenda. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)

See you around town.  B)

Natasha

Well, banning them may very well serve their agenda. It also serves mine -- which is to keep this forum as free from disrupters and trolls as possible.

Best (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)