Deliberate Misrepresentation of Evidence, Videos carefully crafted to be easily debunked Options

[Sanders]

WATCH: IRAN WAR propaganda video narrated by BSreg Fred

What evidence is there that fred is narrating this?? Sorry, I don't get it.

[Natasha]

WATCH: IRAN WAR propaganda video narrated by BSreg Fred

What evidence is there that fred is narrating this?? Sorry, I don't get it.

A couple of months ago I asked Fred, on the 911movement.org forum, if it his voice narrating his 911 Octopus movie, and Fred said that yes indeed he did narrate it. You see, I really thought his narration made 911 Octopus, and I said so on their forum.

Fred's voice is very distinctive, and it is clearly his voice narrating that propaganda video. He tries to disguise it at first, and yet if you listen to the whole thing, you can clearly hear that it is the same voice, which narrates Fred's 911 Octopus movie.

Go ahead and compare them for yourself. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Factfinder Gener...]

"No Plane Theory", most probably a disinfo campaign (even if true to some extent), and most likely instigated from somewhere inside the CIA or DoD.

Why is no one focused on who the perps are?

Back to NPT, what if it was a type of plane that we have no knowlege of, smaller than a Boeing 7x7, beefed up and complete with DU nose and wing-edges to insure penetration of the towers, and disguised in various videos via real images of a Boeing inserted in it's place?

Sanders, my take on The NPT disinfo campaign, and it is as obvious to me as it is to you that there is one, is that the campaign exists to discredit the most dangerous truth of all: that of No Planes. No Planes leads us to the perps. When investigating any crime we have to consider Means, Motive and Opportunity. When we find out who has all three THEN... we have a suspect.

No Planes speaks directly to an understanding of means, points to motive and relates to opportunity. If its true it is a vital part of correctly establishing the basis of all three fundamental aspect of establishing a reasonable suspicion of guilt.

Ponder this well, Sanders, because believe me, I see it as crucial. And I MOST definitely share your concern for fingering the perpetrators.

Off Topic (but an important response to an important point - Natasha with the gun please note (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/truce.gif) )

"what if it was a type of plane that we have no knowledge of, smaller than a Boeing 7x7, beefed up and complete with DU nose and wing-edges to insure penetration of the towers, and disguised in various videos via real images of a Boeing inserted in it's place?"

Sanders, if you substitute "airborne object" for "plane" within your sentence and lose the part about wing edges, you are fundamentally describing a guided penetrator missile. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Why lose the part about wing edges? It is clearly established that the holes were not big enough to accommodate penetration of either the wings or the tail of either plane.

(IMG:http://killtown.911review.org/images/wtc-gallery/nist1-2d/7-87_wtc2-impact-comparison.jpg)


Note: the 2002 report by Levy and Abboud had to "add" to the actual damage to allow for such penetration.

We do not need to account for the penetration of either of these articles within our theory.
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

This post has been edited by Factfinder General: Aug 26 2007, 03:13 PM

[Sanders]

Sanders, my take on The NPT disinfo campaign, and it is as obvious to me as it is to you that there is one, is that the campaign exists to discredit the most dangerous truth of all: that of No Planes...

On this point only, I disagree. I think this is all to discredit the entire movement. However, I could be wrong. No one will ever know until it is clear whether Sean Hannity and people like him begin to or continue to refrain from ridiculing truthers as a group on TV for believing that the plane crashes were faked.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif)

[Factfinder Gener...]

The BSreg Fred generated disinfo and controversy, now surrounding the Hezarkhani video and Carmen Taylor's pictures, are apparently somehow an essential part of this operation. Perhaps, even important enough, for them to burn down the former Deutsche Bank office building in NYC

I agree, Natasha: There is a highly possible link between Fred's group and the burning down of the DB.

And Fred is directly responsible for trying to Burn me Down. Check out his latest two "weasel wideos" which both go out of their way to malign me, my fellow No Buildings debunker u2r2h, along with my diligent and dutiful Forum host over at PI.
Shock and Awe
Fascist Forum

I will not, however, burn down so easily as the Deutsche Bank.
(IMG:http://racerx.250free.com/Fire5.jpg)

FfG. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

BTW: How do you put vids within the posts and not just their URL?

This post has been edited by Factfinder General: Aug 26 2007, 03:47 PM

[Factfinder Gener...]

Sanders, my take on The NPT disinfo campaign, and it is as obvious to me as it is to you that there is one, is that the campaign exists to discredit the most dangerous truth of all: that of No Planes...

On this point only, I disagree. I think this is all to discredit the entire movement.

Sanders: Are you saying that with my advocacy, I am working towards, wittingly or unwittingly, the discrediting of the entire movement? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

This post has been edited by Factfinder General: Aug 26 2007, 03:45 PM

[painter]

<s>
BTW: How do you put vids within the posts and not just their URL?

1) You have to be given a particular 'status' as a member to be able to imbed video using the [ doHTML ] x [ /doHTML ] tags.

2) The specific forum has to have that option turned 'on' in the Admin control panel. Not all forums have it turned on only because it has not been requested. The AltTheories forum is 'on'.

[Sanders]

Sanders, my take on The NPT disinfo campaign, and it is as obvious to me as it is to you that there is one, is that the campaign exists to discredit the most dangerous truth of all: that of No Planes...

On this point only, I disagree. I think this is all to discredit the entire movement.

Sanders: Are you saying that with my advocacy, I am working towards, wittingly or unwittingly, the discrediting of the entire movement? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

No of course not. It is a fine point, relating specifically to why, particularly if NPT is true in some respects, the perps would chose to support a disinfo-campaign that promotes NPT. This is psy-ops, out-of-the-box stuff. Truth mixed up with fiction. To the uninitiated, the ridiculous claims of fred and the claims that a Boeing didn't hit the south tower are one and the same - TV fakery/no-plane. Would you like to be lumped in with him? I assume not -

The threat to the movement is the "dissinfo" part - the bullsh#t part. Separating that from the fact is our only defense.



painter edit to add in quote so it is clear what is being addressed.

This post has been edited by painter: Aug 26 2007, 04:08 PM

[Factfinder Gener...]

FfG wrote: "Are you saying that with my advocacy, I am working towards, wittingly or unwittingly, the discrediting of the entire movement?" (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Sanders replied: "No of course not... The threat to the movement is the "dissinfo" part - the bullsh#t part. Separating that from the fact is our only defense."


FfG replies (with great relief): "O.K. Thank you." (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/shake.gif)

This post has been edited by Factfinder General: Aug 26 2007, 04:24 PM

[Sanders]

Factfinder General, I believe what we are dealing with is a disinfo campaign that, just like the "terrorist threat", mixes fact with fiction. This cannot be ignored. It's as if they are showing us their cards but showing them in a funny way - we think we see their cards, we don't realise that it is they that are showing them to us, and, if we can't see the overall picture, we see only the reflection they want us to see. And, they intend to destroy us with that mis-perception.

So, this is pretty serious IMO. Hence my interest in this topic. FfG, I'm hoping you'll stick with us all and help try to separate fact from fiction, wherever it leads - because, if people are listening, that will bring down their disinfo campaign.

2 cents

[Natasha]

@FFG ... yes I saw those vids. Apparently you scare Fred a bit. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

@Sanders ... did you compare, the narrating voice, of the 911 Octopus movie and the Hezarkhani Iran terrorist 911 link video yet? Can you tell it is the same voice narrating both vids?

[Sanders]

Yeah, probably is

But it's hard to prove something like that. Recording the two versions of his voice and comparing them side by side, honestly, sounds like something fred would do B)

[Natasha]

Yeah, probably is

But it's hard to prove something like that.  Recording the two versions of his voice and comparing them side by side, honestly, sounds like something fred would do  B)

Do you really believe that Sanders? I mean really? If you do then ouch. I mean seriously that hurts.

When you consider the content of Fred's propaganda video, and the fact that he has tried to hide his involvement. I hardly think it compares at all. I use my real name. If I PM you my phone number would that help? Just say the word and I will.

I really don't think there is a comparison. If I did, I would never have said it. I will take it back and beg for forgiveness the moment I believe that.

Please reconsider Sanders. That video is a very serious matter. As is the Deutsche Bank arson fire and the OREO message. Please rethink this dear. I would never lay my ass on the line with this stuff, if I was not certain that it was something, you all need to know.

[Sanders]

Yeah, probably is

But it's hard to prove something like that.  Recording the two versions of his voice and comparing them side by side, honestly, sounds like something fred would do  B)

Do you really believe that Sanders? I mean really? If you do then ouch. I mean seriously that hurts.

<s>

...Please reconsider Sanders. That video is a very serious matter. As is the Deutsche Bank arson fire and the OREO message. Please rethink this dear. I would never lay my ass on the line with this stuff, if I was not certain that it was something, you all need to know.

I PM'd you, Natasha

Hopefully that clears up my position?

[Factfinder Gener...]

I'm bumping this thread with an update on the notorious Fred/bsregistration/dog4tree (and who knows what other aliases and sockpuppets).

Natasha, who left Pilots' suddenly at the end of August and has not been heard from since, was on to something hugely important with this topic, IMO.

Fred, who posts over at 911Movement is up to his old tricks again.

He has made a number of videos recently that are just chock full of bogus claims. A researcher named Ace Baker picked up on one of the more outrageous claims and asked Fred why he was making such obviously nonsensical statements. Fred has now made videos calling Ace a Mossad agent/shill/liar; you know the drill.

You can follow the drama here on this thread over at 911Movement.

I won't advertise Fred's total (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/bs_flag.gif) by posting links to the videos in question but I believe some of them are posted in the thread above.

Ace is bravely standing up for logic and reason as far as I can tell but is being yapped at rather loudly for his sins.

What is Fred's purpose in all this?

I have done a lot of thinking on this issue and I believe firmly that the perps' game was to co-opt what I see as a simple truth, i.e. that they shot missiles at the Towers and convinced everyone that it was planes with the help of (1) false witnesses and (2) videos of the event modified with superimposed planes. Once Fred had worked hard to co-opt this truth (with dozens of reasonably thoughtful videos posted on YouTube) he then set about corrupting this relatively simple scenario by suddenly introducing his hugely complex FCS, geospatialist theories which posit that the whole event was a perception deception exercise and that the videos were totally faked: buildings, sky, birds and all. He's joined in this theory by Webfairy and Simon Shack/socialservice, and others: all in all, some pretty influential figures in the field of NPT. It is amazing the amount of people that have been seemingly taken in by this nonsense (e.g. shure and genghis6199) but then it has been cleverly designed to be a seductive lure.

The 9/11 videos are not real videos with just an animated plane inserted as would-be 9/11 truth leader Alexander Ace Baker would have you believe. They were fake videos broadcast from a central control room with military FCS technology. FCS silenced the local reporters and brought down an informational cone of silence over New York and Washington DC, the areas where an NSC covert operation were taking place on September 11, 2001. This is exactly what PSYOPS teams trained to do at CNN according to Rear Admiral Thomas Steffens, a psychological warfare expert in the Special Operations Command.

His claims, and those of his coworkers in BS, are so far fetched that they encourage widespread incredulity, not only of the FCS theories but, by association, of the core of NPT that he co-opted. I contend that NPT thus remains largely incredible to the vast majority of people, not because it is incredible but because Fred and people like him are being skillfully positioned to command the NPT stage. (I truly believe that when seen with an open and objective mind, NPT starts to make sense!)

I suspect that without the efforts of people like this getting in the way, there might today be a general level of consensus understanding about what really happened on 9/11. But of course the perps were never going to leave us a clear playing field. Such disinformation techniques are to be expected.

Summing up: I believe that Natasha was dead right in her viewpoint, presented at length on her thread here for review by those so inclined, and one wonders what price she may have paid for flying so close to the heat of this particularly ugly part of the 911 deception.

Ace Baker, good luck my dear fellow. I admire you for making a stand against this damaging nonsense. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)

And Natasha, wherever you are, my thoughts are with you. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/spinstar.gif)

Sincerely, Factfinder General.

This post has been edited by Factfinder General: Nov 11 2007, 01:34 AM

[kahlmyishmael]

Well, as WebFairy stated ...after drawing all of the fancy lines-of-sight & "trigging matters out" mathematically....

Ace Baker told FrankBMZ that the water cylinder tank at the top of 19 Rector Street in the Hezarkhani video was INDEED visible but NOT VISIBLE??? ...partially VISIBLE???...because it was further back on the roof of 19 Rector Street.

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=1581&st=15

Huh?

No fancy lines-of-sight drawn there, sports fans! Gosh! Just as the plot was beginning to thicken, also

Here the water tank cylinder is VISIBLE at Ground Level...

So if the Hezarkhani shot was taken even higher AS THE subset of PilotsForTruth members maintain....then at the ferry's even higher elevation.... the water tank cylinder SHOULD BE EVEN MORE visible in the Hezarkhani video...

..if the Hezarkhani video was truly NOT video fakery.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4497841529997110650

Again, at the ferry's even higher elevation MORE OF the water cylinder tank should be visible AS OPPOSED TO what we see at ground level.

1) One sees the ferry in the video...and Fred's shot is incrementally closer than the claimed ferry shot
2) One also sees the water tank cylinder on top of 19 Rector Street
3) Sycamores grow at approximately 2 feet per year and yet even at this late date of 2006/2007 video shot the water cylinder tank is STILL visible

Also, I noticed the subset of this crowd deftly staying away from the topic of the improbability/impossibility of the steady-hand panning & subsequent zoom out being improbable without showing clips from the ferry or people's heads.

Natasha?

Sanders?

Ace Baker?

u2r2h?

This post has been edited by kahlmyishmael: Dec 26 2007, 03:35 PM

[Christophera]

Here is a classic misrepresentation of evidence where evidence is altered then used as a basis for a graphic projection. These guys at www.sharpprintinginc.com/911 are strictly disinfo.

They cut off the spire which outside the corner of the WTC 1 core and try to represent it as the moment frames interior box columns. I busted these guys doing the same crap at stj911 but they don't seem to care there.

The misrepresentation.

(IMG:http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/images/pagemaster/cadview4.jpg)

The unaltered image.

(IMG:http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearspirewall.jpg)

An overlay from the opposite side that locates the spire as, or outside, the core corner.

(IMG:http://algoxy.com/psych/images/superimp.spire.wtc1.jpg)

This post has been edited by Christophera: Dec 29 2007, 04:36 PM