Deliberate Misrepresentation of Evidence, Videos carefully crafted to be easily debunked Options

[Natasha]

I pray that the people of Iran will be safe, and also that Iraq's people will somehow keep their hearts, from being shattered beyond all repair.

There is a HELL, and it is for those who have engineered this satanic cruel monstrosity, that is todays geopolitic.

Crazy as it sounds. I can sense that they are doing something horrible to Iran right this very minute. Remember this date, and later it will become known. Saturday August 18, 2007, 4:04 am US EST. Oh it isn't pretty. Not at all.

This post has been edited by Natasha: Aug 18 2007, 04:07 AM

[Natasha]

For those who don't like stating at the beginning.

For the record. I believe the following to be true, and I believe the lack of real plane crashes on 911 to be self evident. If something that "looks like a plane", does something that an airplane could not possibly do in real life, then it is only reasonable to suspect, that what people "thought they saw" was not really an airplane.

I also believe that Fred, who is always very calm cool and patient normally, really decided to get himself banned by throwing a tanty fit, so he could avoid the legitimate questions about his own video fakery. Fred and Killtown both, do this acting out on a regular basis, purposely to make NPT people look like mental cases. I believe both of them are OPs, whose job is to make NPT look as bad as humanly possible, and in part this is done by making debunkable videos to discredit NPT.

Fred's last video even has an Oreo cookie commercial in it, and he compound that outrage, with a ridiculously transparent justification for doing that.

There are some much better posts above this one.

[georgie101]

Interesting thread.
Welcome Natasha, nice to have you here.

[p.w.rapp]

Hi Natascha,
belated welcome from Europe as well.

I was online when you registered yesterday (your handle 'Natasha' caught my eye (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) and I am still chewing on a lot of your eloquent statements.

It's funny that one of the first books I read in 2002 about 9/11 was a NPT-book from an Austrian author, who works on camera positions and impossible flight paths etc. This is why I have kept an open mind re NPT, but up to now, as far as the WTC is concerned, I can't see any logic in countless faked (amateur-) videos, or sophisticated equipment to create the impact holes for example.

We'll see.

Looking forward to substantial news from your end (i.e. about your prediction re Iran) : Zap

[painter]

<s>
For the record. I believe the following to be true, and I believe the lack of real plane crashes on 911 to be self evident. If something that "looks like a plane", does something that an airplane could not possibly do in real life, then it is only reasonable to suspect, that what people "thought they saw" was not really an airplane.

Just for the record (since I won't be around for most of the day) to me, "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "belief." To me "the lack of real plane crashes on 9/11" is not self evident but the evidence of the crashes is "suspicious" and worthy of further investigation -- especially for those of us who are not knew to this research. However, I do not jump to conclusions. I want to see evidence or at least discussion from knowledgeable and reasonable people (without insults and slander).

I also believe that Fred, who is always very calm cool and patient normally, really decided to get himself banned by throwing a tanty fit, so he could avoid the legitimate questions about his own video fakery. Fred and Killtown both, do this acting out on a regular basis, purposely to make NPT people look like mental cases. I believe both of them are OPs, whose job is to make NPT look as bad as humanly possible, and in part this is done by making debunkable videos to discredit NPT.

Fred's last video even has an Oreo cookie commercial in it, and he compound that outrage, with a ridiculously transparent justification for doing that.
<s>

I certainly believe it is a possibility that what you say about Fred and KT is true. Then again they may simply be doing what you may be doing -- jumping to conclusions based on suppositions drawn from unverified evidence -- something I see some people in this movement do and something I see the government do all the time. Unlike many, I can hold a lot of ambiguity in my thinking. I don't have to come to a conclusion, I simply note that there are contradictory possibilities. I hold these ideas as an "open question." As I go on, hopefully new information will come to light which will help things become more clear. I tend to be less "convinced" by "reasonable" argument and more convinced by evidence.

Natasha, what I'd be interested in learning more about from you is some of the information provided in Fred's "Full Spectrum Treason" video. What I see there is a presentation of some very interesting information which states emphatically that 'such-and-so' is true. It isn't presented as this may be true but that this is true -- and that is where my suspicions regarding all this got turned up to a full burn.
----------------------------------------------------
Stated as fact:
• On 9/11 Fake Videos were shown on TV to Shock and Awe the World
• These videos demostrated the effectiveness of Futre Cmbat Systems or FCS
• FCS uses UAV's or Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
• The pictures from the UAV are entered into a georeferenced database
• Warfighters a and operations planners can then create fake camera views from any angle
• These fake videos can be used for mission planning and simulation
• They can also be used for Military Deception Operations
• On 9/11 a team of covert operators hijacked the airwaes
• Real images from New York City were composited with georeferenced images from the FCS
• The result was a digital city: Fake Manhattan Syline and Simulated Planes
• The public is unaware of the long history of UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles)
• UAVs can photograph an entire city (Their small size make them hard to see)
• Combined with other technologies they play a key role in military deception (There are holograms on your ATM card)
• UAVs, Satellites and Ground Crews converted New York City into TIGER data
• The NRO and NGA are major intelligence agencies
• Their offices were evacuated on 9/11 for a scheduled fire drill of PLANES CRASHING INTO BUILDINGS
• TIGER: Topologically Integrated Geographic Encoding and Referencing
• With Manhattan converted to TIGER Data, the 9/11 Operators could generate any camera angle they pleased
• The video images of buildings were simply 2-D cutouts on your TV screen
• The FCS TIGER system allows a simulated camera view to be shown
• These cut out images of buildings allow the 9/11 Media Hoax perpetrators to generate video from any angle, using simulated camera angles
• The cut outs allow the perpetrators to obscure key features
• Damning evidence was thus concealed from the general public
• The public was shown little more than cartoons of the attacks
• The dozens of helicopters and scenes of hundreds of jumpers were hidden
• Actors and professional spies were hired to lay the part of "eyewitnesses"
• With the result that the "plane crash" explanation was the only one that made sense
• Les explore georeferencing to learn exactly how the 9/11 videos were faked
• On 9/11 the regular media helicopters were ordered to fly away from Manhattan
• Regular feeds from the media choppers were hijacked and replaced with feeds from the military control rooms
• The plane crashes were simply simulated screen shots from the FCS system
• The actual attack was high-tech in nature. The building was destroyed but the paper was left unburned
• Special weapons were used to destroy the WTC complex without destroying all of lower Manhattan
• The debris pile was amazingly small as concrete and steel turned into ultra-fine particles
• The high incidence of cancers among rescue workers and the decontamination efforts at Ground Zero corroborate the use of exotic weapons
• The US Government and EPA lied to New Yorkers
• The strange nature of the damage confirms the fact that exotic weapons were used
• The public was shown experimental video on 9/11
• The video wasn't real: It concealed what happened
• This is a PSYOP technique
[ Screen Shot of "Information Superiority"]
• To Understand 9/11 You Must Understand the Media Hoax (otherwise you are on the path to Nowhere)
[Screen Shot: Think See Do ] [Screen shot: Offensive Counterinformation: Disrupt, Destroy, Deceive]
[Screen shot: Deception Execution Cycle: « CONSTANTLY PRACTICE TIGHT SECURITY DURING ALL STAGES OF DECEPTION EXECUTION » Leadership decision to terminate, alter or plan new deception operation >> Coordinate initial deception and execution timing >> Ensure deceptions story communications method appropriately effective for target audience >> Vertical and horizontal coordination insuring up to date integration between real world ops and deception ops >> Monitor deception operations via intelligence and compare to current rules of engagement. Force protection (illegible), etc. >>Compare termination concept criteria to current intelligence >> Leadership decision to terminate, alter or plan . . .]
[ list of credits ]
• 911 TV Fakery | Trauma Conditioning Repetition Hypnosis
----------------------------------------------------

Ok, now what struck me about this is that this brings to public view some specific details of information warfare not commonly known by most people. That such technology exits. That such information warfare programs exist, and son on. AT THE SAME TIME certain assertions are made which are not verified and which, I believe, in certain instances, are not factual. In any case they are not proven as fact, merely stated as fact. To me, this looks like a very well crafted piece of disinformation because it reveals something while simultaneously making it seem not credible from its source precisely because it does not prove its stated assertions. Again, this is the difference between "may be" and "is". A thing "may be" true and yet "not" be true; if something "is" true it must be verifiability so, not merely possible. Not everything that is "possible" is "actual". It is possible for me to be dead but, as of this moment, I am not. -- But of course you don't know that for a fact. Perhaps I've been offed and someone else has taken my place.

-- See what I mean?

What I do believe is that in the next 9/11 (or god help us, whatever) the kind of technology and rules of engagement outlined above WILL BE implemented even MORE strongly than on 9/11 itself. It is THIS that makes the information important -- if we can pick the gems from out of the turds and use them to learn more.

[Cary]

Hello and welcome to the forum, Natasha. Interesting posts from you so far.

[p.w.rapp]

Thx Painter!
Another excellent summary and analysis especially as you're just 'in and out' today.

There is one more aspect, why NPT, fake videos, TIGER system, secret weapon systems etc. must be subject to critical scrutiny:

It is difficult enough to inseminate obvious things like 9/11 being an inside job or controlled demolition of the WTC into intelligent people's perception (not to mention sheeples' minds).

In my experience from many discussions 'outlandish' claims, that are not carefully based on evidence are extremely counter-productive.
It facilitates the wide spread reflex to tick off unpleasant topics (i.e. as 'conspiracy theories') and return to cosy 'business as usual'.

You started an interesting thread, Natasha.
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) Zap

[Natasha]

Hi Carey and Zapzarap, (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks so much for the warm welcome. I am so glad that you are keeping an open mind about these things. I hope I can be of some help here regarding that.

Really, mainly, I am working to undo the damage done by certain 'professed advocates' of npt and media 911 complicity through video hoaxing. Fortunately the very acting out and odious falsifications, of such as Fred and KT, well serves to actually help make the case, for what really they are actively seeking to suppress.

Please see my following post about these very things.

It is so good to finally be among mature adults of open mind.

I am very grateful to be here.

Thank you all so very much. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)

[Natasha]

I was going post this in the other thread this one was split from. Then, silly me, I realized it would have been off topic there. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

I hope it is OK for me to transplant it here.

Fred,

Holy crap! These guys have been descent enough to let us post here and if some of them are a little tough on you, so what? In the long run, if TV fakery is legit, they'l help us but your response wasn't necessary.

Cary, Sanders, I don't blame you guys for banning him.

Sorry guys.

Hi Quest,

I don't either, and in fact they have been very patient here. Fred, Killtown, and company, have clearly been lying through their teeth about this forum and many others also.

Clearly Fred purposely got himself banned here, in part, so he could avoid legitimate questions about 'his own' video fakery. Fred and Killtown both, do this on a regular basis, and I am convinced they do it purposely.

It is for me now impossible to explain away, as just well meaning mistakes and quirks of personality, their tremendous effectiveness in making any and all involved, in investigating the evidence for 911 media plane crash video manipulation, to look as bad as humanly possible. Their MO is just too clear and persistent, and now to make this even more clear, it is even obvious that are making their video evidence easily debunkable.

Fred and his pals Nico, Kt and Slick, under various other pseudonyms also, have long taken good evidence for media fakery and npt, and purposely sullied it with overtly offensive material, e.g. porn and annoyingly loud bad music, and now lately Fred has even added a new twist, by incorporating product advertisements into his videos. Fred's last video for example has an Oreo cookie commercial in it, and he compounded this outrage with a ridiculously transparent justification for it. Hit the link and see for yourself.

In addition, as is being discussed here, Fred also shrouds known good evidence, within a subtle aura of disingenuousness, designed to softly hint of duplicity, subconsciously, even within the minds of his loyal fans. Such tactics are meant to promote cognitive dissonance, in the mids of his specialized audience which is by nature justifiably wary of such things, and surely this can be no accident. Such is clearly the deployment of sophisticated techniques of psychological warfare, and as such are not intended merely to turn off those who are skeptical. They are not merely suppressing evidence and discrediting such research. They are also conditioning the minds of their fans, their ex fans, those merely curious, those interested of open mind, and those already offended by them on multiple occasions previously, in ways I can only guess at now. These guys are highly effective vectors of the ongoing 911 psychological operation, being beyond any doubt highly trained paid professionals, whose job is to discredit and suppress the very ideas they claim to be advancing.

Here is another long standing tactic of Fred and his coworkers.

When discussions on various forums about these things, and their sophisticated video manipulations harder to discern, begin to take place, they as a group then go to these forums trying to sort through it all, and they then act outrageously in order to even further tarnish, any and all, who investigate the 911 media PSYOP. In addition to such tarnishings, they with great skill derail discussions of what they are actually doing, by causing people to focus on their bad behavior, and thus we unwittingly help them obtain their intended objective.

From my perspective, these things strengthen the case for the absence of WTC plane crashes and media complicity in the conspiracy, and such also indicates that the conspiracy goes far deeper and wider than many assume. These guys are just way waaaaay too effective, to be either amateurs, or innocent of dark intent, and surely they are not sent except really to fight against the very truth of the absence of WTC plane crashes and media complicity in the conspiracy.


Dodge this Fred.

This post has been edited by Natasha: Aug 18 2007, 03:27 PM

[Sanders]

Fred can't "dodge this", he's been banned. Maybe he has a sock puppet? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

But, let's be careful to not attack others - getting us to do so is the prime reason for certain misinformative clips and theories being perveyed in my opinion.

It's a fine line - all I'm saying, Natasha, is it's usually better, in my opinion, to give people the benefit of the doubt. Animosity is contageous, and the perps count on that. If, as I believe, agents are promoting dissinformative theories in order to get us to argue and attack each other, we should be careful not to oblige them. People that put out what you or I might call "dissinformation" may not even realise that they are doing work in the service of outsiders - it is so easy to manipulate people and their opinions if you know how to do it.

Again, it's a fine line, and I don't want to come off as being critical of your stance Natasha, you seem very well informed. Just, ...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then we will have peace."

(That doesn't mean that "junk-science" shouldn't be addressed straight on.)

2 cents

[Natasha]

OK. Thanks painter.

Lets see if this thread dies a lonely death now. I think it may. What do I know though? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

LoL. I don't think that is going to happen. :ph43r:

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Welcome, Natasha

I have to agree with painter that it's better not to jump to conclusions. Intent and motivation is very difficult to gauge, and there is usually at least one more likely scenario than one can imagine. Like trying to catch wild geese in a house of mirrors. Still, interesting thread.

Hi Sanders,

I missed your post somehow last night. Please pardon me. I was even more tired then than I am now after a few hours of sleep.

I have been reading your posts, and I appreciate both your carefulness and your objectivity. I will try to emulate you more in future. For really, I feel 'much better now' (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) , after getting this stuff out there. I have really been so worried, that what I believe to be a crafty ploy, would succeed in burying the real truth.

I believe that exposing media involvement in the conspiracy, their use of fake plane vids and false witnesses, is of tremendous importance. For one thing the "plane" videos are the only remaining articles of tangible evidence, and nothing will speed the nations recovery from the spell they have been so long under, than to expose the media's role in the 911 conspiracy.

Why else does counter-intelligence, that's disclosure if think about it, fight so hard against this? Why else have they somehow, drugs hypnosis?, reduced ex MI5 truther David Shayler to a rambling fool now claiming to be the messiah after he began teaching npt?

One thing remains clear. The plane videos depict airplanes, doing things that are simply impossible, and so those videos are far more than suspect.

[Sanders]

OK. Thanks painter.

Lets see if this thread dies a lonely death now. I think it may. What do I know though? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

LoL. I don't think that is going to happen. :ph43r:

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Welcome, Natasha

I have to agree with painter that it's better not to jump to conclusions. Intent and motivation is very difficult to gauge, and there is usually at least one more likely scenario than one can imagine. Like trying to catch wild geese in a house of mirrors. Still, interesting thread.

Hi Sanders,

I missed your post somehow last night. Please pardon me. I was even more tired then than I am now after a few hours of sleep.

I have been reading your posts, and I appreciate both your carefulness and your objectivity. I will try to emulate you more in future. For really, I feel 'much better now' (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) , after getting this stuff out there. I have really been so worried, that what I believe to be a crafty ploy, would succeed in burying the real truth.

I believe that exposing media involvement in the conspiracy, their use of fake plane vids and false witnesses, is of tremendous importance. For one thing the "plane" videos are the only remaining articles of tangible evidence, and nothing will speed the nations recovery from the spell they have been so long under, than to expose the media's role in the 911 conspiracy.

Why else does counter-intelligence, that's disclosure if think about it, fight so hard against this? Why else have they somehow, drugs hypnosis?, reduced ex MI5 truther David Shayler to a rambling fool now claiming to be the messiah after he began teaching npt?

One thing remains clear. The plane videos depict airplanes, doing things that are simply impossible, and so those videos are far more than suspect.

We are all just singular, seemingly insignificant people. But we can be powerful - India was freed from British rule by a single man. We can effect change by sticking to our guns, refusing to cooperate (that includes refusing to get into brawls as they would wish), doing our homework and spreading the word. What else can we do? The courts are against us, the media is against us. We have to educate everyone - one person at a time. Here's what we have going for us though - the numbers increase exponentially if we do our job and don't fall into the traps that have been set for us.

Thank you for your posts! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[Natasha]

Just for the record (since I won't be around for most of the day) to me, "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "belief." To me "the lack of real plane crashes on 9/11" is not self evident but the evidence of the crashes is "suspicious" and worthy of further investigation -- especially for those of us who are not knew to this research. However, I do not jump to conclusions. I want to see evidence or at least discussion from knowledgeable and reasonable people (without insults and slander).

I appreciate the patient admonitions, made by both you and Sanders, that I need to take greater care to be objective and to refrain from jumping to conclusions. You guys are right. I really do need to be more circumspect, and I am going to make a real effort to do so.

I can agree, that sometimes in some things, uncertainty is a more productive state than belief. Is not though your statement that, " "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "belief." ", yet something which you believe? You do seem very certain about that, and your statement taken literally clearly implies that certainty is a product of, or an indication of, a state of belief.

Now would I be foolish, to "look beyond" your literal statement, to then "sense", feel or "know", what your intended meaning really is? I mean how could I be certain? How do any of us 'know' anything? How can we "bust a move" during a crisis or when in danger, when there is no time for thinking, if we do not accept our uncertainty and believe whatever it is that guides us at such times? I beleive your statement is just such a guiding belief. Not untrue, it points to something beyond it's literal meaning, and it circumvents linear thought. That my friend is the essence of belief. Are you certain, that you didn't rather mean, "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "certainty." I believe you need to think this through a bit more. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I can say I think, and to my mind, that infers some amount of uncertainty, with which I have no quarrel. I can say also that I believe, and to my mind that infers neither an utter lack of uncertainty, nor any sort of absolute certainty closed to further possibility, but rather merely less uncertainty.

I certainly believe it is a possibility that what you say about Fred and KT is true. Then again they may simply be doing what you may be doing -- jumping to conclusions based on suppositions drawn from unverified evidence -- something I see some people in this movement do and something I see the government do all the time. Unlike many, I can hold a lot of ambiguity in my thinking. I don't have to come to a conclusion, I simply note that there are contradictory possibilities. I hold these ideas as an "open question." As I go on, hopefully new information will come to light which will help things become more clear. I tend to be less "convinced" by "reasonable" argument and more convinced by evidence.

I do not believe it true that anything is possible. Is tolerance for ambiguity really a virtue now? While I think wisdom requires us to suspend judgement at times, at other times it demands that we choose, and yet of course choices are not made between two always. The wise will balk when presented with an either or, black and white choice, and they wont be pressured into deciding right now, if it is not absolutely necessary.

As for how government relates to this. This monster we have now ruling us, seems really to more each day enforce ambiguity, by means I don't claim to understand, and for this our society just accepts accepts accepts more each day most unwisely. We are given false choices between several identical candidates now, and people just accept that even though they know better. People who know far better also accept video evidence, presented by a media they well know to be untrustworthy, of events which if by some miracle is not impossible is yet extremely improbable. The ability of people to accept ambiguity, while useful at times is not a virtue, and sadly it has even become a vehicle to secure our misplaced obedience, and terrifying inaction in the face of the greatest crisis our nation has ever faced.

A supposed argument, devoid of evidence to support it, is not an appeal to reason. If an appeal made, whether supposedly to either reason or emotion, does cause one to think and not merely get emotional, then I think it is an appeal to reason. It think it reasonable to conclude, that an appeal to reason may also stir up emotion, and sometimes it would even have to.

Natasha, what I'd be interested in learning more about from you is some of the information provided in Fred's "Full Spectrum Treason" video. What I see there is a presentation of some very interesting information which states emphatically that 'such-and-so' is true. It isn't presented as this may be true but that this is true -- and that is where my suspicions regarding all this
got turned up to a full burn.

Ok, now what struck me about this is that this brings to public view some specific details of information warfare not commonly known by most people. That such technology exits. That such information warfare programs exist, and son on. AT THE SAME TIME certain assertions are made which are not verified and which, I believe, in certain instances, are not factual. In any case they are not proven as fact, merely stated as fact. To me, this looks like a very well crafted piece of disinformation because it reveals something while simultaneously making it seem not credible from its source precisely because it does not prove its stated assertions. Again, this is the difference between "may be" and "is". A thing "may be" true and yet "not" be true; if something "is" true it must be verifiability so, not merely possible. Not everything that is "possible" is "actual". It is possible for me to be dead but, as of this moment, I am not. -- But of course you don't know that for a fact. Perhaps I've been offed and someone else has taken my place.

-- See what I mean?

You know I do painter. I noticed that KT Fred and the guys began to change a great deal, and before they banned me, I even said I thought maybe some sort of mind control or psychotronic weapon was being used against them. Now I realize that I just began to snap out of it is all. Fred's 911 Octopus is what got me back into 911 activism. I had given up trying, a couple of years before, because it was like talking to a wall. It was always the controlled Truther party line everywhere. I was fascinated with Octopus. I watched it, at least ten times, even getting up in the middle of the night sometimes just to watch it. I Frankly liked Fred. One day however, I realized that I had no reason to at all, since I had never met him and new nothing about him. It began to dawn on me, that it was something about his voice in his videos, and that made me begin to look at his work in a whole new way.

I noticed that Fred's videos have changed a great deal lately. While the one above seems technically better than his previous work, the content of his last two videos I find blatantly offensive. I read last night, that Fred has made some very offensive 911 videos containing porn before, and the entire thing just seemed like a crude parody of a 911 doc.

I did not base my conclusions about Fred on this video. In fact I have never watched it past the first minute or so, and that is because by the time it came out, I had become very suspicious about his sound tracks. Think me crazy if you like. I believe that his videos, are very far from, the innocent amateur productions that they seem to be.

What I do believe is that in the next 9/11 (or god help us, whatever) the kind of technology and rules of engagement outlined above WILL BE implemented even MORE strongly than on 9/11 itself. It is THIS that makes the information important -- if we can pick the gems from out of the turds and use them to learn more.

Yes I agree. I am certain they will do something very dramatic eventually, and yet they are using a far more sinister and insidious weapon against us already. Have you never wondered how the people can remain so complacent and blind to the extreme danger they are in? The most powerful and evil weapon, ever developed, is the television. I think Fred's "ministry" is directed against hard cases, who don't watch TV, those in the 911 truth movement and the politically aware on the Internet, and as such it is extremely powerful not to mention very very dangerous.

This post has been edited by Natasha: Aug 18 2007, 10:12 PM

[Natasha]

Interesting thread.
Welcome Natasha, nice to have you here.

Thanks for the warm welcome georgie101. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It is good to be here also.

[Natasha]

We are all just singular, seemingly insignificant people.  But we can be powerful - India was freed from British rule by a single man.  We can effect change by sticking to our guns, refusing to cooperate (that includes refusing to get into brawls as they would wish),  doing our homework and spreading the word. What else can we do? The courts are against us, the media is against us. We have to educate everyone - one person at a time.  Here's what we have going for us though - the numbers increase exponentially if we do our job and don't fall into the traps that have been set for us.

Thank you for your posts!  (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

Sanders thanks for appreciating my contribution. I really like your attitude. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)



I have to go offline now. I really need some time off.

[rob balsamo]

I rarely come in this section, and briefly browsed this thread tonight and last night...

but i just gotta say... love being part of this admin/mod team..

Professional, courteous, mature and respectful... yet know how to take out the trash should the need be...


Great job guys... and thank you.. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)


(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

[painter]

I appreciate the patient admonitions, made by both you and Sanders, that I need to take greater care to be objective and to refrain from jumping to conclusions. You guys are right. I really do need to be more circumspect, and I am going to make a real effort to do so.

I can agree, that sometimes in some things, uncertainty is a more productive state than belief. Is not though your statement that, " "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "belief." ", yet something which you believe? You do seem very certain about that, and your statement taken literally clearly implies that certainty is a product of, or an indication of, a state of belief.

Now would I be foolish, to "look beyond" your literal statement, to then "sense", feel or "know", what your intended meaning really is? I mean how could I be certain? How do any of us 'know' anything? How can we "bust a move" during a crisis or when in danger, when there is no time for thinking, if we do not accept our uncertainty and believe whatever it is that guides us at such times? I beleive your statement is just such a guiding belief. Not untrue, it points to something beyond it's literal meaning, and it circumvents linear thought. That my friend is the essence of belief. Are you certain, that you didn't rather mean, "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "certainty." I believe you need to think this through a bit more. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I can say I think, and to my mind, that infers some amount of uncertainty, with which I have no quarrel. I can say also that I believe, and to my mind that infers neither an utter lack of uncertainty, nor any sort of absolute certainty closed to further possibility, but rather merely less uncertainty.

Thirty years ago, about the time I began to loose my fear of becoming literate (up to that time I had been, more than you would likely suspect), I was reading a lot. I did not grow up reading a as many children do today. I did not like words and did not trust them, and largely still don't. Words are spells -- which is why "spelling" a word [weird] correctly is so important. It's a long story -- if you look at my "esotericism" thread pinned in this forum, it may give you some clues.

I remember reading one statement that really stuck in my mind. As I recall, it went something like this: "If we speak from what we know without doubt to be true, then we can communicate." Tthe quote is from Krishnamurti but I've lost track of which book it is in and have not been able to find it so I'm not sure I'm quoting it exactly. But perhaps that doesn't really matter. What matters is reading those words left a very strong impression on me. The meaning that I ascribed to them put myself into question: Indeed, what DO I know, without doubt to be true?

Some years later I came upon another group of words I would like to share with you now:

---

I take all true skepticism to be the search for a quiet centre within the mind that can resist the pull of subjective opinion, mechanical logic, and authoritarian belief. Nearer to that centre of the mind, it seems that a double certainty appears -- the certainty that it is humanly possible to know reality directly and the certainty that there are infinitely higher levels of being to be served beyond and within the human frame. Thus does a form of faith arise alongside the rejection of belief.

In my world, knowledge is one thing and understanding is another thing, related through being. I can acquire information and derive knowledge from it but if there is not a corresponding growth in being, then my understanding will necessarily be limited. To understand more, it is not enough to gain more knowledge -- something in me has to change in order for understanding to grow. If you've seen the movie "V" you are made witness to Ev's transformation. Something gave her life meaning, and that meaning became more important to hear than life itself.

If you know what I mean. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[painter]

<s>I do not believe it true that anything is possible.

Neither do I and I hope I didn't say or imply that I did.

Is tolerance for ambiguity really a virtue now? While I think wisdom requires us to suspend judgement at times, at other times it demands that we choose, and yet of course choices are not made between two always. The wise will balk when presented with an either or, black and white choice, and they wont be pressured into deciding right now, if it is not absolutely necessary.

As for how government relates to this. This monster we have now ruling us, seems really to more each day enforce ambiguity, by means I don't claim to understand, and for this our society just accepts accepts accepts more each day most unwisely. We are given false choices between several identical candidates now, and people just accept that even though they know better. People who know far better also accept video evidence, presented by a media they well know to be untrustworthy, of events which if by some miracle is not impossible is yet extremely improbable. The ability of people to accept ambiguity, while useful at times is not a virtue, and sadly it has even become a vehicle to secure our misplaced obedience, and terrifying inaction in the face of the greatest crisis our nation has ever faced.

Perhaps I've used the wrong word. In any case, what I mean by"ambiguity" is not related to "ambivalence." What I mean is, a willingness to not jump to conclusions too quickly. At least I care enough to look. Too ask the question.

A supposed argument, devoid of evidence to support it, is not an appeal to reason. If an appeal made, whether supposedly to either reason or emotion, does cause one to think and not merely get emotional, then I think it is an appeal to reason. It think it reasonable to conclude, that an appeal to reason may also stir up emotion, and sometimes it would even have to. <s>

Well, ask Yoda about stirring up emotions. Emotions are much bigger mojo than "reason," which ain't no minor mojo itself. There is something else, though, and that is feeling and by that I probably mean something closer to what you may think of as "intuition."

[painter]

<s>I believe that his videos, are very far from, the innocent amateur productions that they seem to be.
<s>

I agree that is a possibility.

Have you never wondered how the people can remain so complacent and blind to the extreme danger they are in? The most powerful and evil weapon, ever developed, is the television. I think Fred's "ministry" is directed against hard cases, who don't watch TV, those in the 911 truth movement and the politically aware on the Internet, and as such it is extremely powerful not to mention very very dangerous.

I stopped watching all TV years ago. I agree that his videos are "dangerous" in the sense you mean -- whether they are so intentionally or not. Have you seen the movie, "The Good Shepherd?" -- I'm thinking specifically about where the professor is talking about counterintelligence -- about pushing your adversary into an 'unreal' world? I have the exact quotes somewhere. When I have more time I'll look them up for you. Interesting stuff. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

It's vital to penetrate the enemy's intelligence services. Push them into an unreal world, as it were.

The very qualities that make a good intelligence officer, a suspicious mind, a love of complexity and detail, are the very qualities of someone you'll be observing.

The mental facility to detect conspiracies and betrayal are the same  qualities most likely to corrode natural judgement.

Everything that seems clear is bent. And everything that seems bent is clear. Trapped in reflections, you must learn to recognize when a lie masquerades as the truth, and then deal with it efficiently, dispassionately.

[Natasha]

Hi painter, (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I am not ignoring you. I just have to put this out while I can. I will get to your above post soon.




Fred has a new video out.


The CIA is trying to establish, by subtly anchoring the idea, that the Hezarkhania 'ghost plane' video is totally fake, buildings and all. The CIA is building up a sh*t storm of allegations about Hezarkhania's supposed Iranian terrorists connections, while at the same time, implicating Carmen Taylor who took matching pics on 9/11.

Both Hezarkhania and Carmen Taylor are likely CIA assets, who are now being set up as patsies, as agency assets so often are. The CIA is helping the nWO make a case for WAR on IRAN. The new BSreg Fred generated disinfo and controversy, now surrounding the Hezarkhania video and Carmen Taylor's pictures, are apparently, very IMO, an essential part of this CIA COINTELPRO. Once again, I believe BSreg Fred, is helping them with this.

Please watch the videos, then read on, before making your judgement. I believe Fred's latest video is a 'build up' upon the CIA propaganda video he narrated, which claims that Hezarkhania supports a terrorist group in IRAN.

IRAN WAR PUSHING propaganda video BSreg Fred narrated.

Fred's new video: Shock and Awe: CNN Fake is not Real

I reject these latest 'suggestions' the nWO seeks to implant in the minds of 911 investigators.

Fred says that rejecting his 'suggestion', that even the buildings in the Hezarkhania video are fake, means that you are a disinfo agent who is defending the MSM, and he further 'suggests' that we are trying to cover up the fact that FCS exists and was likely used on 911 to fake the 911 media PSYOP. Well that is really, so damned LC, so outright "truther" of Fred.


I believe the nWO planned the 911 PSYOP for years. Did they really try to make it believable though? Is it unreasonable, to conclude that they wanted people, or at least us, to realize that the media works with the military?

Was the nWO military media interface team really just incompetent?

Is the 911 media PSYOP, really just very flawed, as Fred continuously keeps suggesting? Fred has been reinforcing that 'suggestion' all along, and you can see him do it in nearly all of his videos.

Did the nWO military and Intel, want us to see, the incredible power they have over the mind of the masses? I believe the answer is yes.

I also believe the following.

No planes = TRUE ... MSM complicity = TRUE ... FCS is real = TRUE ... Fred doubters are disinfo agents = FALSE FALSE FALSE

The entire 911 movement is a nWO managed PSYOP = TRUE

Why is the nWO 911 PSYOP so obvious to so many people? Whether they believe in 'no plane' and media complicity or not, a significant percentage of people have seen through the PSYOP.

Polls show, that most people have grave doubts about 911, and a significant percentage of people, all over the world, firmly believe 911 was perpetrated by the Bush administration.

Is it unwise, even foolish, to think that the nWO perpetrators of the 911 PSYOP, are such bumbling fools as BSreg Fred continuously suggests in his videos and posts? I believe the answer is NO, and perhaps that suggestion is another important part of of their manged 911 "truth movement" PSYOP.


--------


Genghis also has a new video out today.


I do not believe Genghis to be anything like Fred, and I believe his new video is just incredibly good and very helpful.

The new Genghis video: 911 hypnosis


Genghis and I have had a falling out, over my stance on BSreg FRED, as the exchange below in his Youtube comments make clear.


Natashathompson (1 hour ago)
Brilliant Genghis, just brilliant.

They planned this for year; and yet did they really try to make this believable? It is unreasonable to think they wanted people to realize the media works with the military? Did they want us to see the power they have over the mind of the masses? I believe the answer is yes.
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Natashathompson (1 hour ago)
Fred suggests that rejecting his idea, that even the buildings in the Hezarkhania video are fake, means you are a disinfo agent defending the MSM and trying to cover up FCS. That is, so LC, so "truther". I reject the latest suggestion the nWO is trying to implant in the minds of 911 investigators. No planes = TRUE ... MSM complicity = TRUE ... FCS is real = TRUE ... Fred doubters are disinfo = FALSE ...

The entire 911 movement is a nWO managed PSYOP = TRUE
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genghis6199 (59 minutes ago)
first and last warning natasha. no more gossip. stick to the facts and research. your current war on everyone will find no backing here.
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Natashathompson (29 minutes ago)
Genghis, come on now. Have you seen Fred's new video? It is a fact that he accuses us of that, and I am blocked by Fred from commenting. Is my response really gossip? Do you really believe that Genghis. Please email me.
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genghis6199 (24 minutes ago)
fred's a great researcher. he's done a lot of great work. i can't remember one thing you've ever done. stop bitching and throwing words like psy op around. it's a shame to see someone with a brain act like an idiot
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Natashathompson (26 minutes ago)
And please Genghis. This is not a "war on everyone". I have no problem with you, for example, though we disagree on some things.
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Natashathompson (19 minutes ago)
Genghis come on. Just because I don't make videos doesn't make a "do nothing" or worthless. The MSM makes videos too, and that doesn't automatically make
them good, now does it?
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genghis6199 (11 minutes ago)
talk about the video or go away. you brought this up in the open. you bitched on every forum you could . i've had a gutful. one more comment about another researcher and i'm done with you. take a breath and re-evaluate.
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genghis6199 (10 minutes ago)
i seriously can't believe you went whinging to the loose change bitches
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Natashathompson (2 minutes ago)
smile ... I didn't go "whining to the loose change bitches" Genghis. I just had to post it somewhere. I am surprised, they haven't deleted it and banned me, like KT did to me on his forum for questioning what was going on.

Please don't toe their party line Genghis. Please stay independent.
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Natashathompson (8 minutes ago)
I am sure the nWO used FCS. I had no problem with Fred saying that in his 911 Octopus movie at all.

What I do have a problem with, is Fred's new statement, that even the buildings in the Hezarkhania video are fake, and his pronouncement that anyone doubting that is a disinfo agent or stupid.
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genghis6199 (3 minutes ago)
enough. you were warned. for the record i think christianity is the biggest losers' psy op of them all.
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Comment on this video


Post a video response
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OK Genghis. Block me then. I contradict the established movement order. Maybe you should burn me at the stake for being Christian too.
--------------------------------------------


There at the last, is what I tried to post, but I am now blocked from commenting.

For the record I think Genghis is a good guy, a bit temperamental, but a good man doing the best he can. I believe he is wrestling with his conscience, at this very moment, and he is just not sure what to think right now.

Time will tell.