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Boeing 767 Low-altitude Top Speed

Guest_Ningen_*
post Sep 2 2007, 01:35 AM
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Does anyone know how fast a Boeing 767 can fly at low altitude? The top speed at cruising altitude is over 500 mph, but I've heard the following about flight at 700 feet altitude:

The power plant will max out at 330 mph.

The plane will begin to shake itself apart at over 220 mph.

At 700 feet altitude, the air is so thick that if you go too fast you max the rotation of the turbines, the engines can't suck in air, and the engine starts acting as a brake.

Does this make sense?

Where could I get more detailed information about flight limitations (or whatever you call it) of the Boeing 767?

Thank you.

This post has been edited by Ningen: Sep 2 2007, 04:19 AM
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alfonslof
post Jul 31 2008, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE (Ningen @ Aug 31 2007, 03:35 AM) *
Does anyone know how fast a Boeing 767 can fly at low altitude? The top speed at cruising altitude is over 500 mph, but I've heard the following about flight at 700 feet altitude:

The power plant will max out at 330 mph.

The plane will begin to shake itself apart at over 220 mph.

At 700 feet altitude, the air is so thick that if you go too fast you max the rotation of the turbines, the engines can't suck in air, and the engine starts acting as a brake.

Does this make sense?

Where could I get more detailed information about flight limitations (or whatever you call it) of the Boeing 767?

Thank you.


I am not sure how to use this thing, so sorry if this is wrong.

I am working on a similar project, video to come, and so far I made this page.
Top speed for a 767 is 898 kph/558 mph and that is at an altitude of about 30,000 feet, source: http://www.zap16.com/civ%20fact/civ%20Boeing%20767-200.htm at 30,000 feet the atmosphere is 1/3 the thickness of atmosphere at 700 feet. This would cause approximately 3 times as much drag so the top speed would be about 1/3 of the top speed at 30,000 feet, or about 200 to 300 mph at best, and that is with no wind.

In a youtube video 175 travels 720 feet in 1.06 seconds = 720 Feet per Second = 490.90 Miles per Hour
http://www.v911t.org/175Velocity.php and therefore that plane is likely not a 767. It may not be a real plane at all.

Alfons v911t
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streetcar304
post Aug 4 2008, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (alfonslof @ Jul 31 2008, 09:18 PM) *
Top speed for a 767 is 898 kph/558 mph and that is at an altitude of about 30,000 feet, source: http://www.zap16.com/civ%20fact/civ%20Boeing%20767-200.htm at 30,000 feet the atmosphere is 1/3 the thickness of atmosphere at 700 feet. This would cause approximately 3 times as much drag so the top speed would be about 1/3 of the top speed at 30,000 feet, or about 200 to 300 mph at best, and that is with no wind.


Is there an aeronautical principle you are quoting here or are these just your thoughts?

I asked an old friend who has been flying MD-10's for FED EX for the past 25+ years about this "How fast...?"question. I asked, verbatim:

QUOTE
Got a question for you. How fast do you think a 767 or 757 (or some current airliner) could go at, say, in a low altitude environment? By low I mean 1000 feet or something along those lines. Forget about 250 knots below 10k and whatever structural limitations are published if you just went balls to the wall, full throttle, all that jazz.


Bottom line, a 757-sized aircraft will be able to exceed 450 knots easily at low altitude.

I am somewhat surprised that a website such as this with as many "pilots" as they claim to have, nobody has opined on this topic with this sort of information before and that none of your "pilots" have provided a detailed analysis of low-altitude/high-speed performance capabilities.

What about you, Rob? You are an "airline pilot". What about the experience you claim this board has in aircraft such as the MD-88, CRJ, 737, 757, 767, 747, DC-10? Where are all those pilots and their experience/expertise in low-altitude/high-speed flight? Where is Wittenberg? Where is Aimer? Where is Field McConnell? Where is Trood? Where is Mustanich? All these pilots - you'd think SOMEONE would come up with a definitive opinion on 7x7-class aircraft low altitude/high speed flight capabilities.

Guess not.

Here is my friend's answer, in full:

QUOTE
Well............Let me make a few statements that will qualify what I am about to say. As you are probably well aware, commercial aircraft don't have the forward throttle stops that military tactical aircraft have...........meaning, jamming a throttle full forward, to the stops, on a fighter aircraft is common practice and is routinely done. For example, on takeoff, climb-out, and especially
during a dogfight those throttles are bent forward to 100% RPM (or slightly under). The fuel control unit (military) will not allow that engine to overspeed and self distruct, if properly rigged. ( a guy's got to have means to get home after wrenching a kill on the enemy)

On commercial aircraft, the throttle must be set for takeoff and continually monitored and adjusted during climb by the pilot(s) or auto-throttles, if one's lucky enough to have them. The only time a throttle is bent forward on a commercial a/c is if ground contact appears imminent and it ain't a runway of intended contact. ie, the "escape" maneuver when an a/c is about to hit a mountain. It's firewall power, pull the nose up into buffet, and climb to the moon to clear any obstacle. Should a guy get himself safely on the ground somewhere thereafter, it is mandatory engine inspection and probably all engine removal and replacement. The engines will have been oversped and overtemped with possible other mechanical damage.

So.............of the arecraft of which I am familiar, the redline speed of an MD-10 at 10,000' is 375 KIAS. At sea level, it is 350 KIAS. ( the MD-11 is less than these speeds for a number of reasons that would only get boring) I'm quite sure the 757 and the 767 have very similar max speeds give or take 20-30 knots.

Interestingly, if a pilot didn't pull the throttles back to "cruise" settings (on a commercial a/c) when he leveled off at altitude, the aircraft would accelerate right thru redline on it's way to possible self destruction...........the engines are that powerful.

You know that the safety factors built into aircraft are 1.5 for structural components (wings, fuselage,etc.) and 2.5 safety factor for engines and landing gear, and control surfaces. Don't quote me on these exact components..........this is from memory from years ago. But it means that the design limits imposed by the manufacturer are what are safe to fly with, ie the speeds listed above and the "g" loadings. In reality, the aircraft has to be able to withstand 1.5 times the "g" loading design limits in order to be certified. I'm not sure if the same is true of the speeds, but I feel reasonably sure it is true as well. What this means is........ an aircraft will not show signs of destruction until it reaches the 1.5 times the design speed limit or its "g" limit. At least that is what the manufacturer guarantees, as required by the FAA. So..........

If I were to level off at 5000' (or 1000') and leave the throttles set at climb power, this aircraft would exceed the 350 KIAS (knots, indicated air speed) design limit. But it probably wouldn't come apart............yet. I don't know how fast it would ultimately go because I've never done that in a commercial airplane. We are not allowed to do that. But I do know that if a pilot then pushed the throttles up to the physical limits (stops), exceeding all the engine redline limits and warnings, the engines would accelerate and eventually self destruct as would the airframe itself..........say around 1.5 times 350 knots or 525 KIAS. Reasonably, I would guess the aircraft would start shedding pieces as it approached 500 KIAS.

In answer to your question...............a 757, or a 767, or an MD-11 can easily do 450 KIAS at low altitude at least once and maybe many times before it would show signs of damage and could do well beyond that if it were meant to be total destruction.


I look forward to comments on this information.
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rob balsamo
post Aug 4 2008, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE (streetcar304 @ Aug 4 2008, 10:02 PM) *
What about you, Rob? You are an "airline pilot". What about the experience you claim this board has in aircraft such as the MD-88, CRJ, 737, 757, 767, 747, DC-10? Where are all those pilots and their experience/expertise in low-altitude/high-speed flight? Where is Wittenberg? Where is Aimer? Where is Field McConnell? Where is Trood? Where is Mustanich? All these pilots - you'd think SOMEONE would come up with a definitive opinion on 7x7-class aircraft low altitude/high speed flight capabilities.

Guess not.



http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=9272 yawn.gif

Try looking around before lambasting and looking more a fool "streetcar". We dont have time to read and respond to every post as soon as it is posted.

Also, your friend has done alot of speculating, yeah we can do that too. However, we are searching for actual data.

Someone point this troll to the questions thread in the debate forum before i show him a quick exit.
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Posts in this topic
- Ningen   Boeing 767 Low-altitude Top Speed   Sep 2 2007, 01:35 AM
- - Cary   First up, welcome to the forum Ningen. Second, th...   Sep 2 2007, 06:04 PM
- - Ningen   Thanks, Cary. Actually, I was being a little cagy...   Sep 2 2007, 06:15 PM
- - Ningen   It looks like there is a thread already going abou...   Sep 2 2007, 10:22 PM
- - ogrady   Hi. I'm new here today and verifying Mr. Keith...   Oct 1 2007, 07:20 PM
- - Factfinder General   QUOTE (ogrady @ Oct 1 2007, 06:20 PM)Hi. I...   Oct 2 2007, 02:43 AM
- - alfonslof   QUOTE (Ningen @ Aug 31 2007, 03:35 AM) Do...   Jul 31 2008, 09:18 PM
|- - tit2   Quote: "It may not be a real plane at all....   Aug 2 2008, 05:58 AM
|- - streetcar304   QUOTE (alfonslof @ Jul 31 2008, 09:18 PM)...   Aug 4 2008, 10:02 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (streetcar304 @ Aug 4 2008, 10:02 P...   Aug 4 2008, 11:48 PM
||- - streetcar304   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 4 2008, 11:48 PM...   Aug 5 2008, 05:58 AM
|- - thyket   QUOTE (streetcar304 @ Aug 3 2008, 01:02 A...   Aug 6 2008, 07:52 PM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (thyket @ Aug 6 2008, 07:52 PM) 757...   Aug 6 2008, 08:16 PM
||- - streetcar304   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 6 2008, 08:16 PM...   Aug 7 2008, 06:28 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (streetcar304 @ Aug 4 2008, 08:02 P...   Aug 17 2008, 05:06 AM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 15 2008, 08:06 AM) Ano...   Aug 17 2008, 07:46 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Aug 17 2008, 05:46 A...   Aug 17 2008, 08:44 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Aug 17 2008, 05:46 A...   Aug 17 2008, 12:57 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 15 2008, 03:57 PM) Tha...   Aug 18 2008, 11:43 AM
- - rob balsamo   Your friend is speculating unless he himself has a...   Aug 5 2008, 08:42 AM
- - amazed!   I've never flown a Boeing or any other airline...   Aug 6 2008, 03:31 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 4 2008, 06:31 PM...   Aug 7 2008, 11:43 AM
- - fransan   I would like to tell you some of my own experience...   Aug 7 2008, 12:42 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (fransan @ Aug 6 2008, 10:42 PM) Bu...   Aug 17 2008, 05:36 AM
- - rob balsamo   P4T never claimed Vmo/Mmo is the max speed an airc...   Aug 7 2008, 10:20 AM
- - Seatnineb   one thing is for sure....a 767 incurs aerodynamic ...   Aug 16 2008, 04:27 AM
|- - rcane   QUOTE (Seatnineb @ Aug 16 2008, 04:27 AM)...   Sep 7 2008, 03:28 PM
|- - Seatnineb   QUOTE (rcane @ Sep 7 2008, 02:28 PM) Don...   Sep 8 2008, 05:13 PM
- - amazed!   The better question IMO, is can an autopilot fly t...   Aug 16 2008, 11:07 AM
- - dMole   "You know that the safety factors built into ...   Aug 17 2008, 04:43 AM
- - fransan   Hello. I insist the actual limit of the airframe ...   Aug 17 2008, 03:12 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (fransan @ Aug 17 2008, 03:12 PM) H...   Aug 17 2008, 06:05 PM
- - fransan   Hey, hey, easy there Rob. Sorry for voicing my hu...   Aug 18 2008, 01:38 PM
- - dMole   OK, here's a little on the [off-topic, red her...   Aug 18 2008, 02:51 PM
- - Seatnineb   Ok...this may not be a 767....but the laws of aer...   Aug 18 2008, 03:07 PM
- - dMole   Thanks S9B- sourced aerodynamics information is al...   Aug 18 2008, 04:04 PM
|- - Seatnineb   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 18 2008, 04:04 PM) Tha...   Aug 19 2008, 02:56 PM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Seatnineb @ Aug 19 2008, 12:56 PM)...   Aug 19 2008, 06:34 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 17 2008, 08:34 PM) The...   Aug 20 2008, 12:38 PM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Aug 20 2008, 10:38 A...   Aug 20 2008, 07:14 PM
- - Omega892R09   On lack of data. What puzzles me about all this i...   Aug 19 2008, 07:26 AM
- - rob balsamo   Limitations are learned during initial training, a...   Aug 19 2008, 01:24 PM
- - amazed!   The vast majority of limitations can be exceeded w...   Aug 19 2008, 02:31 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 17 2008, 05:31 P...   Aug 19 2008, 04:57 PM
- - SubjectX   Let's look at it like this; If an air liner h...   Jan 24 2009, 05:28 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (SubjectX @ Jan 24 2009, 02:28 AM) ...   Jan 24 2009, 05:50 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 24 2009, 04:50 PM) In ...   Jan 24 2009, 06:52 PM
- - rob balsamo   I havent cross checked your numbers, however, all ...   Jan 24 2009, 02:26 PM
|- - tnemelckram   Hi all! Interesting. With respect to Rob...   Jan 25 2009, 01:31 PM
- - Seatnineb   Well It would seem for the 707 used in the 1984 ...   Jan 25 2009, 08:42 AM
- - dMole   Thank you S9B, and not that it makes a huge diffe...   Jan 25 2009, 09:03 AM
- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (Seatnineb @ Jan 25 2009, 07:42 AM)...   Jan 25 2009, 02:18 PM
- - tnemelckram   Hi Rob! QUOTE Of course.... anything is possi...   Jan 25 2009, 03:48 PM


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