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Boeing 767 Low-altitude Top Speed

Guest_Ningen_*
post Sep 2 2007, 01:35 AM
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Does anyone know how fast a Boeing 767 can fly at low altitude? The top speed at cruising altitude is over 500 mph, but I've heard the following about flight at 700 feet altitude:

The power plant will max out at 330 mph.

The plane will begin to shake itself apart at over 220 mph.

At 700 feet altitude, the air is so thick that if you go too fast you max the rotation of the turbines, the engines can't suck in air, and the engine starts acting as a brake.

Does this make sense?

Where could I get more detailed information about flight limitations (or whatever you call it) of the Boeing 767?

Thank you.

This post has been edited by Ningen: Sep 2 2007, 04:19 AM
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dMz
post Aug 18 2008, 04:04 PM
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Thanks S9B- sourced aerodynamics information is always welcome to me- several of those books are out of print and/or quite expensive and difficult to find. V_ne is more for smaller aircraft, with V_mo/M_mo being more applicable to the "Big Boeings." That diagram of V > V_ne [or V_mo] effects is still very relevant here, too.

Instead of speculating about what the speed "could" be, let's talk about what the data suggests it "WAS," in absence of SSFDR and CVR's. This is from something I posted earlier on a ["limited" by necessity] thread here:

"1. My preliminary analysis of USAF 84 RADES data shows UA175 pitching down from 8-15 degrees during the last minute of flight (based upon arc tan(ModeC "v_y" /GS "v_x" ) spherical Law of Cosines approximation- see UA175 section...)

2. My RADES analysis shows UA175 approximate GS of 471.344 knots at 2200 feet aMSL ModeC at 13:02:23.660 Zulu time (GMT) or 9:02:24 EDT (the final radar return). [FEMA and FAA put it about 512 kts, NIST at 475 kts, and I'm not sure whether they meant TAS, IAS, CAS, or GS here]

3. My RADES analysis shows approx. AA11 GS of 421.81 knots at 2000 feet aMSL "height" at 12:45:48.445 Zulu or 8:45:48 EDT (final RADES return, no transponder or secondary radar info).

I have used approximation techniques to derive GS velocity from the RADES lat/lon data (more info in AA11 and UA175 Aircraft sections if needed here).

Unfortunately, I reached a standstill without verifiable, documented structural B767-200 data/specifications or better WTC mass distribution numbers. I also have yet to see any FAA radar data 6 years later, or WTC2 South blueprints for that matter. There has been considerable speculation and ambiguity about the WTC 1,2, and 7 construction particulars as well. Apparently ASCE, FEMA, NIST, and FBI/NTSB were able to draw their conclusions without any of this information that I still seek...

For AA11, my research says:
B767-223ER #N334AA B# 22332, GE CF6-80A2, Mode 3A 1443 off 08:20:38 EDT

For UA175:
B767-222 #N612UA B# 21873, PW JT9D-7R4D, Mode 3A 1470 > 3020 > 3321 "
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- Ningen   Boeing 767 Low-altitude Top Speed   Sep 2 2007, 01:35 AM
- - Cary   First up, welcome to the forum Ningen. Second, th...   Sep 2 2007, 06:04 PM
- - Ningen   Thanks, Cary. Actually, I was being a little cagy...   Sep 2 2007, 06:15 PM
- - Ningen   It looks like there is a thread already going abou...   Sep 2 2007, 10:22 PM
- - ogrady   Hi. I'm new here today and verifying Mr. Keith...   Oct 1 2007, 07:20 PM
- - Factfinder General   QUOTE (ogrady @ Oct 1 2007, 06:20 PM)Hi. I...   Oct 2 2007, 02:43 AM
- - alfonslof   QUOTE (Ningen @ Aug 31 2007, 03:35 AM) Do...   Jul 31 2008, 09:18 PM
|- - tit2   Quote: "It may not be a real plane at all....   Aug 2 2008, 05:58 AM
|- - streetcar304   QUOTE (alfonslof @ Jul 31 2008, 09:18 PM)...   Aug 4 2008, 10:02 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (streetcar304 @ Aug 4 2008, 10:02 P...   Aug 4 2008, 11:48 PM
||- - streetcar304   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 4 2008, 11:48 PM...   Aug 5 2008, 05:58 AM
|- - thyket   QUOTE (streetcar304 @ Aug 3 2008, 01:02 A...   Aug 6 2008, 07:52 PM
||- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (thyket @ Aug 6 2008, 07:52 PM) 757...   Aug 6 2008, 08:16 PM
||- - streetcar304   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 6 2008, 08:16 PM...   Aug 7 2008, 06:28 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (streetcar304 @ Aug 4 2008, 08:02 P...   Aug 17 2008, 05:06 AM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 15 2008, 08:06 AM) Ano...   Aug 17 2008, 07:46 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Aug 17 2008, 05:46 A...   Aug 17 2008, 08:44 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Aug 17 2008, 05:46 A...   Aug 17 2008, 12:57 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 15 2008, 03:57 PM) Tha...   Aug 18 2008, 11:43 AM
- - rob balsamo   Your friend is speculating unless he himself has a...   Aug 5 2008, 08:42 AM
- - amazed!   I've never flown a Boeing or any other airline...   Aug 6 2008, 03:31 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 4 2008, 06:31 PM...   Aug 7 2008, 11:43 AM
- - fransan   I would like to tell you some of my own experience...   Aug 7 2008, 12:42 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (fransan @ Aug 6 2008, 10:42 PM) Bu...   Aug 17 2008, 05:36 AM
- - rob balsamo   P4T never claimed Vmo/Mmo is the max speed an airc...   Aug 7 2008, 10:20 AM
- - Seatnineb   one thing is for sure....a 767 incurs aerodynamic ...   Aug 16 2008, 04:27 AM
|- - rcane   QUOTE (Seatnineb @ Aug 16 2008, 04:27 AM)...   Sep 7 2008, 03:28 PM
|- - Seatnineb   QUOTE (rcane @ Sep 7 2008, 02:28 PM) Don...   Sep 8 2008, 05:13 PM
- - amazed!   The better question IMO, is can an autopilot fly t...   Aug 16 2008, 11:07 AM
- - dMole   "You know that the safety factors built into ...   Aug 17 2008, 04:43 AM
- - fransan   Hello. I insist the actual limit of the airframe ...   Aug 17 2008, 03:12 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (fransan @ Aug 17 2008, 03:12 PM) H...   Aug 17 2008, 06:05 PM
- - fransan   Hey, hey, easy there Rob. Sorry for voicing my hu...   Aug 18 2008, 01:38 PM
- - dMole   OK, here's a little on the [off-topic, red her...   Aug 18 2008, 02:51 PM
- - Seatnineb   Ok...this may not be a 767....but the laws of aer...   Aug 18 2008, 03:07 PM
- - dMole   Thanks S9B- sourced aerodynamics information is al...   Aug 18 2008, 04:04 PM
|- - Seatnineb   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 18 2008, 04:04 PM) Tha...   Aug 19 2008, 02:56 PM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Seatnineb @ Aug 19 2008, 12:56 PM)...   Aug 19 2008, 06:34 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 17 2008, 08:34 PM) The...   Aug 20 2008, 12:38 PM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Aug 20 2008, 10:38 A...   Aug 20 2008, 07:14 PM
- - Omega892R09   On lack of data. What puzzles me about all this i...   Aug 19 2008, 07:26 AM
- - rob balsamo   Limitations are learned during initial training, a...   Aug 19 2008, 01:24 PM
- - amazed!   The vast majority of limitations can be exceeded w...   Aug 19 2008, 02:31 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 17 2008, 05:31 P...   Aug 19 2008, 04:57 PM
- - SubjectX   Let's look at it like this; If an air liner h...   Jan 24 2009, 05:28 AM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (SubjectX @ Jan 24 2009, 02:28 AM) ...   Jan 24 2009, 05:50 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 24 2009, 04:50 PM) In ...   Jan 24 2009, 06:52 PM
- - rob balsamo   I havent cross checked your numbers, however, all ...   Jan 24 2009, 02:26 PM
|- - tnemelckram   Hi all! Interesting. With respect to Rob...   Jan 25 2009, 01:31 PM
- - Seatnineb   Well It would seem for the 707 used in the 1984 ...   Jan 25 2009, 08:42 AM
- - dMole   Thank you S9B, and not that it makes a huge diffe...   Jan 25 2009, 09:03 AM
- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (Seatnineb @ Jan 25 2009, 07:42 AM)...   Jan 25 2009, 02:18 PM
- - tnemelckram   Hi Rob! QUOTE Of course.... anything is possi...   Jan 25 2009, 03:48 PM


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