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andrewkornkven
“Mayday! Mayday!”– What Really Happened in the UAL93 Cockpit?


The official story of what happened aboard UAL93 is depicted graphically in the film, “United 93"– the pilots are attacked by knife-wielding hijackers who stab them to death and thus take over the cockpit. I’ve always been suspicious of this story, especially since one of the passengers, Tom Burnett, reported in a phone call to his wife that the hijackers had a gun. When Burnett’s wife Deena was questioned about the gun report, this is what she said:

QUOTE
“He told me one of the hijackers had a gun. He wouldn’t have made it up. Tom grew up around guns. He was an avid hunter and we have guns in our home. If he said there was a gun on board, there was.”


That’s pretty convincing to me. The guns would also explain why the crew on only one of the four flights (allegedly) were able to make any kind of a distress call to ATC. Finally, there is documentary evidence that Betty Ong reported a shooting aboard AAL11 in her phone call, which was subsequently covered up. (I would be happy to go into detail about this evidence for anyone who is interested.)

With the release of government evidence relating to the Moussaoui trial in 2006, however, we were presented with some chilling audiotape which, if authentic, seems to validate the government’s story of a gruesome knife fight in the cockpit of UAL93.

I invite participants in this thread to listen to this audiotape, and analyze it in conjunction with two other pieces of evidence relating to the events in the cockpit of the flight. I would politely ask, however, that those who do not believe there were any hijackings at all– that the plane landed in Cleveland, the plane was a drone, the passengers were fake, etc.– to please not participate in this thread. I would prefer to hear only from those who accept, as I do, that the planes were indeed hijacked– the main question being, by who?

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Exhibit 1: United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Prosecution Trial Exhibit


http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/...hts/P200055.htm

Go to this link and you can download the evidence exhibit, including audio files. One file will be labeled “Ziad Jarrah,” the alleged hijacker-pilot of UAL93.

If you are unable to download and/or listen to this audiofile, please tell me. I may be able to help. Sometimes I am a bit suspicious that this evidence has been made intentionally difficult to access for the general public.

There are four segments of audio. The first two are the ones of interest to us. Both contain emotionally gut-wrenching sounds allegedly of pilots Jason Dahl and Leroy Homer yelling “get out of here” to the hijackers while wailing “Mayday!” several times.

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Exhibit 2: National Transportation Safety Board- Air Traffic Control Recording (transcript)

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc08.pdf

These are the official transcripts of the communications between UAL93 and ATC. However, they include only the transmissions to and from UAL93, not of the other aircraft on the same frequency. That ommission could be important, as we will see.

The transcript also includes this ACARS message to UAL93 five minutes and sixteen seconds before the first “Mayday” broadcast:

“BEWARE OF COCKPIT INTROUSION. (sic) TWO AIRCRAFT IN N.Y. HIT TRADE CENTR BUILDS...”

(Question: was this ACARS message acknowledged?)

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Exhibit 3: Audiotape from Cleveland Center handling of UAL93 posted on Airdisaster.com

http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/atcwav.shtml

This is a tape of the Cleveland Center sector handling UAL93 as recorded by a private website. Unlike the transcripts released by the NTSB, this recording includes the transmissions of other aircraft on the same frequency communicating with ZOB controller John Werth. The tape does not include, however, the transmissions of screaming from the pilots. Those segments were excised out by the website, supposedly out of respect for the families of the crew.

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Analysis:

Have you listened to and/or read all three pieces of evidence? Do they jibe with each other?

According to the official story, despite the warning of a cockpit intrusion, the hijackers were able to enter the cockpit and, after a lengthy struggle, stab the pilots to death. We have to believe, then, that Burnett’s report of a gun was an error, or that the hijackers decided not to use the gun on the pilots. One of the pilots first keyed the mike at 9:28:16 to yell Mayday, then keyed the mike again 32 seconds later to repeat much the same thing.

Do we really believe that at least 32 seconds into such a life and death struggle, the pilots are still going to be ordering the hijackers to “get outta here”?

And how about the second transmission: It seemed to me that the two “get outta here”s sounded artificial, almost like they were a recording. Am I the only one with this impression?

The account gets even more suspicious when the Moussaoui exhibit is juxtaposed with the other two pieces of evidence I am presenting here. Here the crucial segment from the NTSB transcript:

QUOTE
1327:25 ZOB:  “United ninety three that traffic for you is one o’clock twelve miles eastbound three seven zero”

1327:30 UAL93 negative contact we’re looking United ninety three


1328:16 UAL93 ***(mayday)***(hey get out of here)***


1328:48 UAL93 ***(get out of here)***(get out of here)


1329:14 ZOB  United ninety three verify three five zero




In the key in the beginning of the document, three asterisks indicates a pause, and parentheses indicates a “questionable insertion.” That means whoever made this transcript found all these “Mayday” and “get out of here” transmissions to be “questionable,” in terms of what words were actually said.

That these words were barely intelligible is also supported by the third piece of evidence we are looking at, the audio from airdisaster.com which also includes transmissions from other pilots on the frequency. In the moments after the transmissions, Cleveland controller John Werth clearly has not understood what was said by UAL93, and tries to solicit help from other pilots:


QUOTE
United 797: United fifteen twenty-three, did you hear the company, er, did you hear some other aircraft on a frequency a couple of minutes ago, screaming?

United 1523: Yes I did, seven ninety-seven, and, ah, we couldn’t tell what it was either.

United 797: OK.

Cleveland: United ninety-three Cleveland, if you hear the center, ident [command for United 93 to send secondary radar transponder positive identification]

American 1060: American ten-sixty, er, ditto also on the other transmission.

Cleveland: American ten-sixty, you heard that also?

American 1060: We heard it twice.

Cleveland: Roger, we heard that also. [No noise on Cleveland tape.] Thanks. We just wanted to confirm that wasn’t some interference.

Executive 956: Executive nine fifty-six.

Cleveland: Executive nine fifty-six, go.

Executive 956: Just answering your call. We could year that, er, yelling too.

Cleveland: OK, thank you, we’re just trying to figure out what’s going on.

[emphasis added]
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/flight93-air-traffic.htm




It seems obvious from this audio that not only Werth but the other pilots on the frequency have not been able to make out what was actually said from UAL93, other than that it was “screaming.” This would seem to be consistent with the “questionable” nature of the sounds heard by the person who did the NTSB transcripts, who decided to nonetheless insert the words “Mayday” and “get out of here,” and label them clearly as questionable.

And yet, when we listen to the audio from the Moussaoui exhibit, there is nothing ambiguous or “questionable” about the transmissions at all! The words “Mayday” and “get out of here” ring through clear as a bell on both segments! How can this be explained? How could the NTSB have thought these words were “questionable” at all? How could not only controller Werth but several other pilots not been able to make out the word Mayday repeated several times on two separate transmissions? The word Mayday is certainly part of every airman’s vocabulary!

This glaring inconsistency entitles us to question whether the “Mayday/get out of here” audio released with the Moussaoui exhibit is authentic, or whether it was “enhanced” while in the possession of the government– and perhaps not only enhanced, but completely fabricated.

Remember the recording of the Cockpit Voice Recorder from UAL93? You know, the one of “Allah Akbar!” fame? We can view the transcripts of that alleged recording, but the government has never released the recording. Apparently, some of the family members who were allowed to listen to it were suspicious of its authenticity. Is it possible that the “Mayday!” audio was cooked up in the same sound studio that gave us the dubious CVR?

With such an idea in mind, we should revisit the possibilities of voice morphing technology. Some people think the phone calls from the flights were voice-morphed. I’m pretty skeptical of that, since it would be awfully difficult to successfully fake several phone conversations with a loved one, such as Deena Burnett. Then there’s the actual recordings we can listen to on the internet of Betty Ong from AAL11 and of Cee Cee Lyles leaving a message to her family from AAL77. It would take a mighty talented voice morpher to pull those calls off without suspicion.

However, the few seconds of audio from UAL93 would have been a different story. Only a few words needed to be disguised as sounding like the voices of pilots Dahl and Homer. More importantly, a potential voice morphing technician would have been greatly aided by the recordings of the other, normal, transmissions made by the two men earlier in the flight on the same recording. Samples of their voices could have been used to greatly enhance the quality of the phony segments. The extreme duress of the situation would explain differences in pitch and timber of the voices, and allay any potential suspicions of those who knew the two men.

Alternate Theory:

If the “Mayday/get out of here” audio was indeed faked while in the government’s possession, consider this alternate theory of what really happened. The pilots were killed by hijackers– not by knives, as per the official story, but quickly, using the gun reported by Tom Burnett. With the pilots dead, it is the hijacker himself who keys the mike and makes the broadcasts over the frequency. Wanting to feign a knife fight, but not wanting to reveal himself, the hijacker holds the mike away from his body and makes some muffled shouting noises– the “screaming” heard by the controller and other pilots on the same frequency.

The same hijacker a few minutes later keys the mike again and broadcasts the familiar “here is the captain....keep remaining sitting... we have a bomb on board...” This transmission-- thought to be meant for the passengers and only accidentally broadcast over the frequency-- is in fact intentional and again designed to further the false impression of unsophisticated Arab hijackers.

On the day of 9/11, law enforcement immediately seizes all recordings from air traffic control facilities. Years later, a few seconds from those recordings are released that are not only emotionally riveting, but that also affirm the government’s story of a knife fight in the cockpit. The original report of guns in the possession of the hijackers– so devastating to the official story of unsophisticated Arab hijackers– is further discredited.

This scenario works perfectly for the conspirators and for the government’s official story, but only if those few seconds or audio are authentic. The question is, are they?
Beached
An excellent analysis Andy! thumbsup.gif

There is clearly something very wrong with the CVR recording. I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks of this...
rob balsamo
Good post Andy...

A few observations...

If there were shots fired on board, why didnt any other passenger report it via phone call if in fact all calls were authentic? Certainly at least one pax out of the many alleged calls would have reported it.. no? Especially if they saw a gun. If the govt "erased" that portion of the call, wouldnt a family member be suspicious?


QUOTE
United 797: United fifteen twenty-three, did you hear the company, er, did you hear some other aircraft on a frequency a couple of minutes ago, screaming?


The above statement seems very fishy. How did they know it was company initially, and then corrected himself to "er... some other aircraft" almost like he made a slip of the tongue...

Also, the CVR did not capture the "mayday/get out of here", according to the NTSB reconstruction animation. Is it reported somewhere that it did? I know it was reported as broadcast... but wondering if it was reported as CVR as well...

Regards,
Rob
andrewkornkven
Thanks, Rob


QUOTE
If there were shots fired on board, why didnt any other passenger report it via phone call if in fact all calls were authentic? Certainly at least one pax out of the many alleged calls would have reported it.. no? Especially if they saw a gun. If the govt "erased" that portion of the call, wouldnt a family member be suspicious?


Burnett reported a gun; he didn't say he saw or heard any shootings.

If they shot the pilots, they would have done that in the cockpit, perhaps with the door closed, and therefore out of view of the passengers. They also would have used a gun equipped with a silencer. Thus the shootings of the pilots would have been unseen and unheard by passengers in the cabin.

I also believe the shootings would have been at the outset of the hijackings, by a hijacker who was trusted by the pilots and had been allowed into the cockpit by them (perhaps he had pilot credentials?). Thus, no cockpit storming was necessary, although one may have been staged to fool the passengers into thinking it was an Arab job.

QUOTE
Also, the CVR did not capture the "mayday/get out of here", according to the NTSB reconstruction animation. Is it reported somewhere that it did? I know it was reported as broadcast... but wondering if it was reported as CVR as well...


I didn't mean to suggest that the CVR captured the "Mayday" audio. Remember, the CVR recordings are a 30 minute loop that records over itself, therefore the hijacking at 9:27 would have been erased at 9:57, before the crash.

The only reason I brought up the CVR is because there's a lot of suspicion that it was fabricated while in the government's possession-- even among the family members who listened to it. If the CVR was allowed to be tampered with, why not the ATC audio recordings as well?

To Beached: Thanks. Great signature photo. Lenin was fond of saying "terror is a method of persuasion." I love that quote. I'm sure Chertoff agrees wholeheartedly.
rob balsamo
QUOTE (andrewkornkven @ Jan 14 2008, 01:17 PM)
If they shot the pilots, they would have done that in the cockpit, perhaps with the door closed, and therefore out of view of the passengers. 

The whole plane would have heard those shots, door closed or not...

QUOTE
They also would have used a gun equipped with a silencer.  Thus the shootings of the pilots would have been unseen and unheard by passengers in the cabin.



You say this as if it were fact and have knowledge of the operation and/or SOP in such a scenario. Also, if Tom Burnett knows guns so well, why didnt he report a silencer. Or did they screw on the hush kit once they busted down the cockpit door while the pilots waited for them to screw it on?

QUOTE
I also believe the shootings would have been at the outset of the hijackings, by a hijacker who was trusted by the pilots and had been allowed into the cockpit by them (perhaps he had pilot credentials?).  Thus, no cockpit storming was necessary, although one may have been staged to fool the passengers into thinking it was an Arab job.


All very creative theory, but i find the same in fiction novels. Got any facts? Or perhaps we should move this thread to the alt theory forum.

Also, if the hijacker was on the jumpseat and/or shot the pilots at the outset of the hijacking, how did Tom see the gun prior to storming the cockpit as Deena suggests?

QUOTE
I didn't mean to suggest that the CVR captured the "Mayday" audio.  Remember, the CVR recordings are a 30 minute loop that records over itself, the the hijacking at 9:27 would have been erased at 9:57, before the crash.


I didnt suggest you did. I asked if there were any reports on such. Are there? The 30 min loop is exactly why i asked.
andrewkornkven
I'd prefer this thread just be about the three pieces of evidence I presented, and whether they jibe with each other or not. I believe they contradict each other, as I tried to show in my opening post.

I'd like participants here to listen to the two audios, and read the NTSB transcripts, and tell me if they agree or disagree with my conclusions.

-Andy

thumbsup.gif
Beached
QUOTE
Also, the CVR did not capture the "mayday/get out of here", according to the NTSB reconstruction animation. Is it reported somewhere that it did? I know it was reported as broadcast... but wondering if it was reported as CVR as well...


You're right Rob... I also meant the radio transmission there...my mistake! doh1.gif

QUOTE
To Beached: Thanks. Great signature photo. Lenin was fond of saying "terror is a method of persuasion." I love that quote. I'm sure Chertoff agrees wholeheartedly.


Thanks Andy!

The first time I saw Chertoff I thought he looked like Lenin after a severe wasting disease. Chertoff is undoubtably a very "black" man.
acoronab
The recording used in the Moussaoui at link http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/...hts/P200055.htm is not avaiable anymore, any other link?

What about downloading these evidences to your PC, since the y are being erased from the net?

Alex
p.w.rapp
QUOTE (acoronab @ Apr 11 2008, 12:28 AM) *
The recording used in the Moussaoui at link http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/...hts/P200055.htm is not avaiable anymore, any other link?

What about downloading these evidences to your PC, since the y are being erased from the net?

Alex


Good point, Alex.
Most of the important things have been downloaded to hard discs and archives by 1000s of researchers and are being kept available somewhere on the net. All we (you) have to do is search for another link.
Plse post it, when you've found one.
WetBlanket
I tend to believe the calls weren't made from the air. Indeed some may be genuine and being made from the ground fixes the problem of cell phone reception. The calls sound staged. "Hi mom, it's me Mark Bingham". I wouldn't trust any as evidence.
tit2
Video: "The Hijacking Of United Flight 93"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x2eMQUtnZs

Quote " andrewkornkven"

"Burnett reported a gun; he didn't say he saw or heard any shootings.

If they shot the pilots, they would have done that in the cockpit, perhaps with the door closed, and therefore out of view of the passengers. They also would have used a gun equipped with a silencer. Thus the shootings of the pilots would have been unseen and unheard by passengers in the cabin."

You should know the problems identified by the analysis of phone calls of Tom Burnett. Officially, there were three phone calls from Tom Burnett to his wife Deena., using GTE airphones.

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/...ts/P200055.html

But Deena Burnett signaled four telephone calls of his husband Tom. Each of the four calls includes a conversation with him. And she said that Tom Burnett used his cell phone.

http://www.tomburnettfoundation.org/tombur...transcript.html

http://www.911blogger.com/node/11930

In addition, if the terrorists had had a gun, they would normally have used it to open fire on the passengers when they attacked the cockpit of the aircraft, approximately at 9:58.

The use of knives by the terrorits had been mentioned by the phone call of Barbara Olson, from Flight 77.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

A knife was officially found among the debris of the crash of Flight 93. See:

http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/debris.html

"FBI investigators found a stout "fighting" knife among the wreckage at the United Airlines Flight 93 crash site in western Pennsylvania, says a federal official who reviewed photographs of evidence at FBI headquarters here."

Video "Flight 93 Crash site evidence collected"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P72v8zryZAE&hl=fr

The knife that was "found" is shown in the following video (point 31)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhg0nht7NRc

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93

"At 09:24, Flight 93 received Ballinger's ACARS warning: "Beware any cockpit intrusion—two a/c [aircraft] hit World Trade Center".[28] At 09:26, the pilot sent an ACARS message back: "Ed, confirm latest mssg plz -- Jason".[28] At 09:27:25, the flight crew responded to routine radio traffic from air traffic controllers. his was the last communication made by the flight crew before the hijacking"

"At 09:28:17, a crew member in the cockpit began shouting, "Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!" over the radio amidst sounds of violence.[31] A Cleveland Air Traffic Controller replied "somebody call Cleveland?", but received no reply.[19]

"Thirty-five seconds after the first Mayday call, the crew made another transmission. Someone in the cockpit shouted, "Mayday! Get out of here! Get out of here!"

It is difficult to understand how the Hijackers were able to penetrate so quickly in the cockpit of the aircraft. It is also very difficult to understand that after Thirty-five seconds that four Hijackers armed with knives have penetrated inside the cockpit of the aircraft, one of two crew members can still say: ""Mayday! Get out of here! Get out of here!"
cam
happy.gif sorry to bother you, but as you said, this link was not available...any info as to see this would be helpful, ty
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