[Disclaimer:

I wrote the posts in this thread (those under my name) as I embarked on a path of research, motivated purely by an intense curiosity, and I marked my discoveries along the way here in this thread. I was fascinated by the use of occult symbology in our media (and other clues), and the more I investigated the more I saw that the history, in fact "world-view" that we have all been told to accept is mostly balony. (I stand by that 100%.) However I concluded too fast that there was a linear connection between the self-annointed managers of our country (and, to a large and increasing degree, our planet) and an ancient "dragon" culture. And I have (somewhat mistakenly) described this culture as of a "conquering" nature in many of my posts. While I learned a great deal on my search for answers, and while the reader might find some of my posts interesting, I have discovered that my overriding view of the big picture was wrong.

The true dragons were a wise and just sub-race of Kings and Queens of antiquity, and they have been all but gone for a thousand years - exterminated by the Church and her clients, the long string of usurpers who traded loyalty to Rome in return for its (fraudulent) recognition of kinghood. The Templars were not dragons (I don't think), they were rather a military arm of the dragons, from whom they split and pursued their own interests. William the Conqueror may have had some dragon blood in him, but he was first a warrior and his loyalties lied with his own power-grab - he killed many true "dragons" (the elven Picts) during his brutal subjugation of the north of England - and, the descendents of his warrior co-usurpers from Normandy, "bully-boys" as they have been described, who comprised the moneyed-elite of America throughout much of its history, were no better despite their claims of blue-bloodedness. Far worse are the bankers, often the descendents of those Norman colonists, who have taken their place. None of these people who have caused so much anquish in pursuit of their own monetary gain throughout modern history are "true" dragons, though I suspect they cling to imagined thread-thin connections to those ancient families, while they have hijacked the symbology and 'religion' (for lack of a better word) of the ancient cults in pursuit of their own bloated vision of themselves as overlords of us "stupid sheep".

If you want to know about the true "dragon blood-line", don't bother with my drivel, read instead "The Dragon Legacy" or any other of the works of Nicholas de Vere.]


Here in Japan, people count things in 10's, it's an overwhelmingly metric country. Makes sense, we all have 10 fingers to count with. In the States, or in Britain I would assume, you buy a dozen donuts. 12 hours on the clock. 12 months in a year, 12 inches in a foot.

It would never have dawned on me that this was out of the ordinary, were I not living in Japan where nothing is counted by 12's. The number 13 crops up sometimes as well, actually there are 13 lunar cycles in a year. 13 original colonies, 13 stripes on the flag, 13 rows of bricks on the pyramid on the back of the dollar, 13 arrows in the Eagle's clutches (all obstensibly derived from the number of original colonies, but was it really all coincidence?). Also, there are 12 member banks in the Federal Reserve system, 12 stars on the EU flag. 12, or 13, depending on how you count, tribes of Israel. Jesus had 12 disciples. 4 suits in a deck of cards (the seasons?), each with 13 cards, bringing the deck total to 52 (52 weeks in a year??). And, apparently, there are 13 ruling families in the Illuminati, or 12 or 13 "Illuminati" heads.

Or what I don't know, but having listened to a radio interview given by George Szymanski with a woman who apparently has escaped from the Illuminati cult who calls herself "Svali", I'm all ears. Szymanski claims to have also talked to another woman in Italy 25 years ago who also escaped from the same cult, from whom he says he heard similar stories. That woman later committed suicide, succesfully on the third attempt. (Illuminati members, according to info posted by "Svali" on another website, are meticulously programmed from infancy, and committing suicide if they ever try to leave the "family" is one of the things that are imprinted onto their psyche.)

Here is a link to a site where you can get some brief info about who Svali is, and a link to her interview with George Szymanski.

http://www.projectcamelot.net/svali.html

I was always skeptical of this talk of the "Illuminati". Even Svali seems to prefer to refer to the orginization as the "family" or by other terms. There's just so much crap on the web, I'm just immediately turned off by these green-text over black-background websites covered with skulls and references to Satan in every paragraph.

One of the things that trips people up though, I think, is the word "Lucifer". Even Svali states in her interview with Szymanski that "Luciferianism" and Satanic worship are entirely different - I'm adding in my own commentary here, but Lucifer is another name for the planet Venus - the morning star, or harbinger of the coming sunrise ... hence the connection to "Illumination".

But hey, far be it for me to want to moderate on behalf of the people who are trying to rule the world and extinguish the spirit of Liberty in America, and around the world for that matter. These are evil people ... but only from the viewpoint of those of us who think of good and evil in accepted, normal terms.

CIA posted this in a thread in the lobby about the Vatican, and I'm finally going to respond with what I will post here subsequently over the coming days or weeks.



One repeatedly reads (if they delve into this long enough) about these Illuminatti or British and European royalty claiming Mesopotamian roots. Then you have the first written texts of antiquity, cuneiform, which were found in Mesopotamia. There are step pyramids (Ziggurats actually) all around modern Iraq and Iran - even a famous one in Ur (Mesopotamia, or more correctly, Sumer, the birthplace of Abraham). Shall I say it .... civilization eminated from Sumer - it didn't just spring up in Egypt and the Indus Valley after that coincidentally, what would be the chances of that? So it's no surprise that pagan traditions and beliefs in far flung places would be similar.

WTF am I talking about!?? I wish I could shell it out in one post ... but it's too deep, there is just too much information.

But to elicit some interest, there are 12 constellations - through which the sun moves about, as per the theory forwarded in the Zeitgeist movie. Yes, sun worship is a big part of all this pagan stuff. But there is another way of looking at it I think, there is Draco, the dragon, I like to think of it as the 13th constellation, smack dab in the middle of these other 12 constellations, at true theoretical north (i.e. directly north if you correct for the earth's slow wobble). I will attempt to show that this identity of the dragon was adopted by the elite of early western civilization, which emenated from Sumer (identified also as Mesopotamia, Chaldea), and that these people, possessing superior ship-building, weapon-making, architectural and organizational expertise, were able to conquer indiginous peoples just about wherever they went. They left their mark from Egypt to Greece to France to Scandinavia to Britain to China ... And, if we try, we can trace their steps practically to the White House.

I decided not to post this in the religion section - because this has very little to do with religion actually ... at least not monotheistic religion. And since I seriously doubt there are too many hard-core pagans out there reading who I might offend, I'm just gonna stick this in 'research'.

More to come. For now, the stars. The pink circle in the image at the bottom of this post is the course the earth's axis traces as it wobbles - each precession from zodiacal age to age takes 2150 years, so for the earth to complete this wobble and come back to the same axial place takes a little over 25 thousand years. At the moment the north star is Polaris, but a few thousand years ago it was Thuban ...as the earth slowly "wobbles" the current north-star changes.

For anyone who has seen Zeitgeist, it should be plain that the ancient Egyptians understood this wobble of the earth's axis, and the precession of the ages. We are now in the age of Pieces, have been since around the time of Christ, and will be until 2150. That's why born-agains stick a fish on the back of their cars (without knowing why), it's why the pope's mitre looks like a fish's head when you look at it from the side.



(This is covered more or less in Zeitgeist.)

But what is amazing is that people thousands of years ago had a handle on this slow wobble of the earth's axis, the precession through the constellations as it were, and knew where true north was ... that is, north if you correct for this wobble, and that they saw a dragon there and identified themselves with it.

(While I've removed many stars and constellations for clarity, the relative positions of the stars below are correct and un-altered.)



(12 + 1 = 13)

9/11 was, for me, a window into what some people like to refer to as the "rabbit hole". The most dissapointing part of this journey was, as it is for everyone I'm sure, at the beginning, when we first realize we've all been lied to all of our lives, that "history" as we were taught was little more than a fairy tale, that the true nature of the world has been hidden from us from the get-go. Therein my (unending lol) search for what was real and what was B.S. began.

First, I learned that the salesmen of the Iraq war (the Neoconservatives), who most likely were involved in the planning of 9/11, had been planning their "war on terror" for a good decade before Bush was elected president, the policy making posts of whos administration they quickly filled after he was "elected".

Then I learned about the Federal Reserve and the bankers who schemed to appropriate the US economy and political system a full century ago. But even the discovery of this and the myriad of ways that these banking and industrialist families have been able to sink their claws into America (the Council on Foreign Relations, the CIA, control of the mainstream media, etc.) and the world at large left many questions unanswered in my mind, and clues kept taking me farther and farther back into history.

I thought maybe I had touched the bottom of the rabbit hole when the trail led to the world's first bankers, the Templar knights of a thousand years ago, especially when I learned that their ancestral home in London, the Crown Temple Church, evolved into an institution (embodied in many buildings in or on the outskirts of the 'City of London') which currently houses the International Bar Association. The original Templar church is but a short walk from the Bank of England, and I realized that the world's banking and legal institutions evolved over the last millenium hand in hand ... but the questions kept coming - for example, the power of the Crown was handed over to the pope right around the time the Templars were getting established, yet it is universally said that the power of the Crown resides in The City (of London) ... how? Why? Just because the Templars were the pope's militia??? That didn't make any sense (and to this day I have yet to figure that little mystery out). Anyway, the various questions I had weren't answered by the things I learned about the Templars, in fact my questions became more numerous, nothing made sense.

Soon I was in Biblical territory looking for the keys that would make all of the puzzle pieces fit, when I stumbled on to the theory that the Hebrews of Israel and the Hyksos kings of Egypt were of the same stock, indeed, there is a documentary out there called "Ring of Power" that proposes that the "Exodus" of the Bible and the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt were one and the same event. ... But still the questions kept coming faster than the answers.

How far do we have to go back to really understand the people who would perpetrate something as audacious as 9/11 in order to start a pseudo-religious war in ancient Mesopotamia, in order to ring in their vision of one world government?

I can't say for sure, nor can anyone not truly on the inside and in the know ... but many clues I've run across in my search point to Mesopotamia 5000 years ago being the source.

Here is an interesting article that places the fixing of the original 48 constellations at a latitude consistent with Sumer (and too high to be Egypt, too low to be Greece), and at a time around 2700 - 2900 BC.

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/constellations_date.html



I promised, perhaps foolishly, that the crux of this topic would not be religion. However, I think a good place to start might be the Megen David, or Seal of Solomon, an ancient pagan symbol. This connects squarely with Freemasonry, as we shall see. It should be noted that the 6-pointed star has only been used exclusively as a symbol of Judeaism for a little over a century. It has been a staple of Mason symbology however for much longer, and it's no coincidence that the ritual of the 3rd degree of Masonry is based on the story of Hiram Abiff, the Master Architect of Solomon's temple.

Here you find the Seal of Solomon adorning the Grand Lodge of Denmark


Theosophical Society Lodge


Rennes-le-Chateau in France


Notice the snake which forms a ring around the Symbol of Solomon on the Theosophical Society Lodge logo. In addition to the significance of the serpent, which will become more and more apparent, the fact that it is eating its tail signifies the endlessness of time, and can be traced back to at least ancient Egyptian symbology. Also notice that the two triangles are interconnected, the Symbol of Solomon is commonly represented this way in Freemasonry (for a significant reason).

Here's a little page about the Rennes-le-Chateau.
http://altreligion.about.com/library/bl_rennes.htm

You can see that this castle is connected with the Templar knights and was dedicated to Mary Magdalene in the 11th century. Before moving along here's a geneology chart. Solid red lines indicate direct descendent (daughter or son), dotted red lines indicate direct descendency over more than one generation. Circles indicate marriages.

http://urokomovie.com/genealogy/frankgenealogy.gif

Toward the right halfway down you'll find a guy, Theoderic IV, or Rabbi Makhir, Exilarch of Babylon. Which of these people married Aldana, the daughter of Charles Martel, or if Rabbi Makhir took the Frankish name of Theoderic and the two are one and the same person is disputed - and quite controversial.

"The Kalonymus of Narbonne
In 787, Charlemagne sought to buttress his southerly defences against Islam with a buffer-state He wished them to be independent of the Rabbinical influences of Islamic Spain, so he applied to the Caliph of Baghdad for a leader qualified to command their loyalty. The Caliph sent him Makhir."
http://www.shealtiel.com/shealtiel/_pdfs/briefhistory.pdf

If you look at who the children of this controversial person were and how their blood fed into the major houses of France, you will understand why it is so controversial if Theoderic was really Makhir - for Makhir was supposed to be descended from King David of the Israelite line of kings.

The area Rabbi Makhir ruled was called Septemania (also known as Languedoc), on the French Mediterranean coast, and his descendents and followers, known as the Cathars, came to be numerous in nearby Toulouse and Aquitaine. About a third of the way down this page you can read about the Cathars ... quite the pagans.
http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/holy_grail.html

I don't know how big a grain of salt to take that descrïption of them, but the association of the Troubadors of Aquitaine with "courtly love" is legendary, and the crusader William IX "the Troubador" was one of the Dukes of Aquitaine show above.

But let's get back to the Magen David.

I mentioned that it's use a symbol of Judeaism is fairly recent. I've found some spotty instances of Jewish use of the symbol during the middle ages, but the Star of David didn't gain acceptance as a specifically Jewish symbol until the late 19th century, correlating with it's adoption by the Zionist Congress in 1897 (from what I've been able to dig up).

One place however that the Magen David or Seal of Solomon was used which predates any wide use in association with Judeaism (apart from its use by Solomon of course), is on the Great Seal of the United States. We are all familiar with the all-seeing-eye on the reverse side of the seal, on the obvserse side above the eagle is a "glory" of stars arranged in a hexagram.



If anyone has any doubt that this is the Seal of Solomon or not, before 1841 the stars in the glory were all 6-pointed stars as you can see.



Why is this included in the Great Seal? I don't really know why the founders included it ... except to say that Franklin (who was a Mason) and Jefferson, both of whom were on the first committee to design the Great Seal, both suggested designs for the reverse side of the seal that depicted the Israelite's exodus from Egypt, ostensibly to signify triumph over tyranny.

There are a number of theories of the meaning behind the hexagram or Megen David, one being: "that during the Bar Kochba rebellion (1st century), a new technology was developed for shields, which used the inherent stability of the triangle. Behind the shield were two interlocking triangles, forming a hexagonal pattern of support points. " Or, "the Star of David comprises two of the three letters in the name David. In its Hebrew spelling, it contains only three characters, two of which are "D" (or "Dalet", in Hebrew). In ancient times, this letter was written in a form much like a triangle, similar to the Greek letter Delta ...The symbol may have been a simple family crest formed by flipping and juxtaposing the two most prominent letters in the name."

There is another interpretation, one relevant to this story, that the two superimposed triangles represent, depending on what you read, good and evil, male and female, spiritual vs. physical, fire and water, and in all cases the superimposition of opposites. This is the interpretation that is relevant to our purposes IMO, and this is why in Masonry the two triangles are interweaved. Good and evil, male and female or like dichotemy, combined into one entity. This, by the way, is the pagan interpretation (if you hadn't guessed).

Before the emergence of monotheistic religions, the way I understand it, paganistic beliefs generally revolved around male and female entities, or, physical and spiritual counterparts, or, a god of the heavens/weather etc. along with a counterpart goddess of the earth/vegetation etc.

Some of their names:

"Father/heaven" ---------"Mother/earth"
Anu --------------------------- Ki
Uranus ----------------------- Gaia
Enlil -------------------------- Ea / Enki
Ba'al --------------------------Asherah
El Shaddai------------------- Adon
Arhiman -------------------- Mazda
Osiris ------------------------ Isis

I'm no expert on a lot of this this stuff, so if I stumble or mis-state I hope someone will correct me. But this early pagan belief system is most certainly rooted in ancient Sumer (Mesopotamia). This is located BTW in modern day Iraq between and around the Euphrates and the Tigris rivers near where they empty out into the Persian Gulf. Later in history this area came to be called Chaldea, where Kabbalah followers were prevalent. Kabbalah: (I just copied this from a dictionary) - "A body of mystical teachings... often based on an esoteric interpretation of the Hebrew scrïptures. A secret doctrine resembling these teachings." You may have noticed that Kabbala was mentioned in that descrïption of the Cathars I linked to. Chaldea, Egypt and Greece are usually cited as the centers of Kabbalah teaching, I agree with the view that Chaldea was the source. (The Persians were said to have found the Chaldeans "versed in all forms of incantation, sorcery, witchcraft, and the magical arts." Madonna is (and Britney Spears was up until a year ago) on a Kabbalah kick btw.

This "mystery school", or Gnostic teachings associated with Kabbalah is also tied to the traditions of Catharism. The Templars were apparently Cathars while the Merovingian Kings who united France before them were probably pagans even after the conversion of Clovis I ... although the Templars and Merovingians hid their pagan tendencies and maintained tentative alliances with the Catholic Church. The Merovingians were replaced by the Carolingians eventually, who enjoyed the full support of Rome, although Merovingian blood probably continued into that line through Charles Martel's son Pepin's wife Bertrada De Leon. The Templars were eventually expunged, their leaders burned at the stake in the 14th Century, like the Cathars before them. The survivors fled and took refuge in Portugal, Spain, Scotland and probably Switzerland. From Portugal and Spain they proceeded to explore the globe as the Knights of Christ and other orders, in Scotland they stayed underground until the 17th century when, once the Catholic Church had lost all authority in the British Isles, began to come out of the closet under the guise of Freemasonry. (In the meantime they and their Dutch cousins had established the British and Dutch East India Companies - picking up where their Portugese and Spanish bretheren left off before they too were purged from those countries during the Spanish Inquisition!!???? ... food for thought.)

................................................................................
EDIT: In this and the previous post, I claim or imply that western dominating civilization (as we know it) got started in Sumer and fanned out from there. This is what historians tell us, and that well may be the case, but in writing the following posts I have run across some things that have led me to the conclusion that this didn't happen in a vaccuum, that Sumer and the other centers of develpment (Egypt, Indus Valley, Scythia, etc.) had been in existence and in contact with one another far longer than we are led to believe.
....................
[The Sumerian priest-kings were descended from the Ubaid, who had had a long established kingdom centered in the Carpathian basin. Archeologists have uncovered finds in modern Romania, which include cuniform tablets on which, it seems, are written proto-Sumerian texts pre-dating the earliest Sumerian cuniform stones. Also, burial sites uncovered all over Asia are starting to provide a solid basis for the idea that Sumer, until recently thought to be the birth of civilization, was just where refugees from the Ubaid kingdom of what would be known as Scythia, relocated after, possibly, a Black Sea flood. We read about the "Royal Scythians" - but don't know quite what to make of them, as they weren't mentioned much in the history of the world we were taught. However they, these 'Ubaid' (proto-Royal-Scythians), apparently preceded the "birth of civilization" in Sumer, and archeological finds more and more support this.]

Here's an unexpected place to find the Seal of Solomon or 6 pointed star...



This folks, is the flag of Northern Ireland. What the!?? What's the six-pointed star doing there?? - actually, there is a very good reason for it being there, which has almost nothing to do with Judaeism..

It is accepted thought that civilzation as we know it sprang from Sumer, in lower Mesopotamia, 5 or 6 thousand years ago, give or take. I even posted an article above that claims to show that the original (ancient 48) constellations must have been settled on from a latitude consistent with Sumer at around that time, and I don't doubt it. But after looking long and hard at this, I'm of the mind that civilization, as it has come to evolve into what we are stuck with these days, grew and percolated and developed in a number of locations simultaneously, and that the exchange of goods and ideas between all of these cultures was far more extensive, and went on far longer, than one would think. The areas I'm talking about are Sumer, Egypt, the Indus Valley, Britain (specifically Ireland), Scythia (a wide swath of land around and above the Black and Caspian Seas), and the entire area north Mesopotamia in and around southern Turkey and the Levant, including the lands of the Amorites, Akkadians, Hittites, Hurrians and most importantly the Phoenicians.

It's tempting to imagine that an advanced civilization just sprang up suddenly in Sumer (after the flood?) and fanned out from there, in fact it's sort of the accepted wisdom ... and this view has led some to embrace a lot of what I consider nonsense, that gods, or even aliens from another planet (called Nibiru), came down from the heavens and mated with Sumerian women, giving rise to super-humans and "poof", we had pyramids and roads and irrigation and weapons. But I just wanna go on record that I don't buy any of that for a second, I don't think "fallen angels" were the patriarchs of the Sumerians, even if the Sumerians thought so. And I don't buy into David Icke's "Lizard-people" nonsense either, even if this thread is titled the "Dragon Blood-line". (Although I concede that Dick Cheney may well have some reptillian DNA in him ).

What really happened looks to be far more interesting IMO, though really hard to figure out. I don't really have a handle on it (and I may never) - but to me it's too pertinent to what's going on in the world today to not at least attempt to post whatever I can dig up.

I first got curious about the Indus Valley after I started stumbling on all this "dragon stuff" that pointed to Sumer, and I recalled that the dragon was always used in reference to the Chinese throne. I though, nawwwh, there can't be a connection, can there? But then I though that in China and here in Japan as well the 12 signs of the Zodiac are the same as in the west ... but I again thought, nawwh, they just got that from us. But then I remembered the 12 year cycles that the Japanese and Chinese follow (not recognized in the west), each year designated by a boar or a chicken or a monkey (or a dragon), etc. Then I found out that there are Ziggurats, or step pyramids, in China, lots of them. (There are hundreds all over modern Iraq and Iran, not to mention the ones in Mexico and Central America - and of course the great pyramids in Egypt.)

Ziggurats (Pyramids) in China


Ziggurat at Ur (Sumer)


It turns out that the Chinese drew much of their culture from the Indus Valley, who traded with the Sumerians for centuries (if not millenium) before what we consider the peak of Sumerian culture.

This page talks about ancient import-export "seals", ones from the Indus Valley found in Sumer and vice versa. What's interesting about these seals, is they were imprinted in clay using metal cylinders onto which the desired image and text was etched in reverse ... i.e., printing. (!) Guttenberg, what took you so long??


http://www.indoeurohome.com/Meluhha-Dilmun.html

Note that the Indus settlements aren't all that far from Sumer. Dilmun, which some believe refered to modern Bahrain, was mentioned in texts as the location of the Sumerian creation myth, where Enki provided water creating a paradise (which only the gods inhabited). According to this (below) and other sources, this Dilmun, or Tilmun, was also an important trading partner between Sumer and the Indus Valley, providing among other things, copper from Omar which was needed to make bronze. (I've also read though that the Sumerians obtained copper from Turkey to the north).

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/1980....connection.htm

One other thing I find interesting btw, is the extraordinary development going on in Dubai these days. Halliburton has even moved it's headquarters there I think. Well, Dubai is right down the coast from Dilmun, home of the ancient Sumerian gods as it were (if, the real location for Dilmun was actually modern Bahrain).

The Sumerians also traded with Egypt, with the Phoenicians (or Canaanites), who inhabited the area in between, often playing middle man ... and all three cultures clearly influenced one another. I even read somewhere that there was a Sumerian ghetto nestled somewhere in one of the Nile settlements, but I don't remember where. Anyway,
http://www.crystalinks.com/sumeregypt.html
http://history-world.org/egypt_and_mesopotamia_compared.htm



The Sumerian god An had two sons Enki and Enlil who ruled over the air and water, in Canaan the couterpart of An was Dagon, who's son Baal was preiminent, in Egypt Osiris and Isis begot Horus ... the stories and names of dieties vary, but there are clear parallels between familial dieties who take on certain duties in the various cultures, and sometimes there are stiking similarities, for example, Ninhursag, the Sumerian mother-goddess, was Ninurta in Canaan. There are many many more parallels, but I gotta tell ya I get all confused with all these deities, maybe I'll organize something and post it later. One thing I did find quite interesting though, is that there were 12 supreme Gods in the Sumerian pantheon ... and the same number in Greece much later, 6 male and 6 female. Which is no surprise really, although Greek culture didn't derive directly from Sumer, it derived more from Phoenicia and Minoa, who both got it from Sumer - or more correctly, they all developed in tandem over a long period as they were trading with one another ... and with Egypt, and with the Indus Valley, and even the Druids (I am discovering), and Greece got it later, second hand as it were. That's really my point.

Also, the dragon, a mythological beast of course, is conspicuous in ALL of these cultures. I should emphasize that the dragon is historically not a manevolent entity at all - it represents knowlege, life, sometimes other meanings are attached, and most often, royalty. This



with two serpents coiled around a rod has been associated with medicine for almost as long as the dragon has been associated with healing and life-giving powers.

Another interesting tidbit which harkens back to the dragon is that the Egyptian pharaohs were anointed with the fat of a holy crocodile, or "meseh". Apparently, we get our word "messiah", or anointed one, from this word. Sir Laurence Gardner, a Fellow of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland who has published a few books on grail-lore and other topics sort of related to this thread (I'm sure I'll be quoting him), claims that the ancient Sumerian kings were also anointed with the fat of a crocodile, though I can't find any confirmation of this. I can't help but recall though that the kings of medieval france were anointed with the "oil of Clovis", Clovis being one of the first Merovingian kings (who's grand-father was a sea-serpent if I remember correctly), the oil being supplied from heaven (I'll get into the Merovingians later).

I ended my last post with a teaser relating to Scotland, and the Tribe of Dan, and started this post with the flag of North Ireland. I don't mean to be coy, but it's a difficult topic. I thought I needed to cover some ground with regard to Sumer and the other civilizations that were percolating at the time (some thousands of years ago), and their pagan similarities. The fact is, there was an invasion of sorts (non-violent) into Ireland by a peoples known as the Tuatha De Danaan about 2000 BC . Tuatha means tribe in this case. De means gods. Danaan means?? Who knows. Lots of people say that this Tuatha De Danaan are the Tribe of Dan ... I don't think the two are the same, but I'm open to the idea that they are connected. The Tribe of Dan is also often accused of being the Danaus who made their presence felt in Greece ... I'm of the opinion that the Danaus too are a separate entity from the Tribe of Dan, but connected ...

.................................

The Tribe of Dan

The British-Israeli movement is cited for adding support early in the 20th century to the idea of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine, land which England had just wrested from the Ottoman Empire (Turks) at the end of WWI - and wrested again from the Arabs they had promised independence to in return for fighting on their behalf. What the British-Israelists believe, is that Bretons (or at least British nobility) are descended (to some degree) from the Israelites. One of the notions that they promote is that the tribe of Dan migrated to the British Isles, leaving their name all over the place along the way. The full import of this assertion can only be fully appreciated if you allow for the absence of vowels in ancient Hebrew. Dan, Din, Don, Dun, all the same - and if you look at maps and start thinking about it, D-n is everywhere. The Don, the Dneiper, Dnestr, Donetz, Danube (all rivers eminating from the Black Sea), ScanDiNavia, MaceDoNia, the Dinaric Alps, and Denmark to name a few. There were a "tower building" people called the Shardana, who dominated SarDiNia and Corsica for centuries - the term "sar" or "shar" in Hebrew apparently means "chief," "prince," "ruler," from which such words as "Tsar," "Caesar," "Kaiser," etc., derive. The "Shar-Dana," then translates into chiefs or princes of Dan. The name seems to be everywhere in Ireland and Scotland too - Dunvegan, Dunkeld, AberDeeN, EDiNburg, LonDoNderry, Dunglow, Donegal, Dingle, Dungarvan, in fact the penninsula jutting off the west of England used to be called Danmoni - or the "mines of Dan" ... tin mines in this case.

Are these "marks of Dan" all over Europe really significant, or more the fanciful thinking of some British nobles? There are two separate issues here, were the Tuatha De Danaan and the tribe of Dan the same? And can the same be said for the Danaus of Greece ? (And more interestingly, is there some underlying factor that unites all three that we have missed?)

A lot of people think the British-Israeli propoganda is bunk, and as the whole idea is agenda driven and I too am skeptical. But with regard to the Danaus of Greece, there are some interesting clues lying around...

Homer called the Greeks "Danois".

Petavius says that Danaus was the son of Bela - who was a sojourner in Egypt - and fled with his tribe to Greece - settling near Argos, a century before the Exodus.

Danau/Danaus' "patriarch" is cited alternately as Belus, Belos, or Bela. Who is Belus?

"Belus (Greek?) the Egyptian is in Greek Mythology a son of Poseidon by Libya. He was a King of Egypt and father of Aegyptus and Danaus."

Another thing I stumbled on to (can't find it) said that Belus was an Egyptian King (does this mean he was a Pharaoh? If so, I have to figure out which one...), who sired two sons Aegyptus and Danaus ... his son Danaus ruled LIBYA. Is this why in Greek mythology Belus' mother is described as Libya?

One more:
The ancient Greek records of Hecateus of Abdera, a Greek historian and philosopher of the 4th century B.C., say: “The most distinguished of the expelled foreigners followed Danaus and Cadmus from Egypt; but the greater number were led by Moses into Judæa.”

There's a (torturously long but interesting) documentary floating around titled Ring of Power (which talks about the Tribe of Dan btw), that makes a case, and a pretty good one IMO, that the Hebrews and the Hapiru of Egypt were one and the same, and that the Hyksos kings (in and around the 15th dynasty) were of this stock. This may or not be true, I have no idea, but the Hyksos were thrown out of Egypt (around 1500 BC give or take?) ... right around the time of Moses. Also consider that Canaan was under Egyptian control around the time of the Exodus and that the names of Egyptian Pharaohs are almost entirely (and strangely) left out of the Bible.

Speaking of the Bible, let's look at the Biblical Dan for a second. Dan and Nephtali were full brothers, sons of Jacob by a handmaiden named Bilhah. Remembering that Hebrew is written (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) without vowels, could Bilhah somehow represent Bela/Belus??? Bela was supposedly Danaus' father in Greek mythology, whereas Bilhah was Dan's mother in the bible. Yet, if one allows for a certain amount of allegory in these stories, it's not so crazy to see a possible connection here.

Note this as well, Dan and Nephtali were represented as full brothers and were closely associated. Dan (in the Bible), despite being the 2nd most populous tribe, recieved a paltry portion of land. They decided to invade Laish (a city near Sidon just north of the Israelite lands), killed all the inhabitants and changed the city's name to Dan. This territory was adjacent to the Nephtali tribe. Other writings say that, much later in history, descendents of the tribes of Dan and Naphtali migrated together first to Scythia (which became Khazaria), then later to Scandinavia, Dan settling in Denmark and Naphtali settling in what is now Norway. It's also suggested that the Sc- in "Scandinavia" derives from Scythia. That the Vikings came from Scythia is widely believed and there's alot of evidence for it. (I've also read in many sources that the "Sc" in Scotland also derives from Scythia, however the story of "Scota", which I'll get into, seems more relevant to me). Point is, the tribes of Dan and Nephtali were apparently closely allied, and maybe were regarded as apart from the other tribes, particularly Dan. In a passage from the Old Testament, the "Song of Deborah", the Tribe of Dan is repremanded for "Remaining in Ships" while the other Israelites fought the Canaanites. I read an interesting analysis of this, where the Canaanites of Sidon and Tyre stood by and allowed the tribe of Dan to sack and take over nearby Laish in a sort of neutrality pact, and later to honor this pact the tribe of Dan remained neutral when the other tribes were battling it out with the Canaanites. (Canaanites and Phoenicians are synonomous - Phoenician being the Greek term for the Canaanites btw.) The salient point though, is that the Tribe of Dan didn't care for the land they were given in the south - they prefered to be up north next to their bretheren the Nephtali.

So, if I'm to try and make this connection between the Israelite Dan and the Egyptian Danaus of Greek legend, then is there a parallel correlation between Nephtali and someone else in the Bela/Belus family of legend?

No. But the name sure sounds alot like "Nephilim". Nephilim were fallen angels, sired by the god Elohim paired with human females (we're talking ancient Sumerian pagan legends here).

I looked up the origins of Naphtali, and here's what I got -

"The name Naphtali is commonly understood to come from patal meaning to twist. Derivatives are cord, thread; (petaltol 1857b), tortuous (Deut 32:5); (naptulim 1857c), wrestlings (Gen 30:8).
Some other occurrences of the verb-plus-nun are: Job 5:13 ...the advice of he cunning (; NAS); and Pr 8:8 ...crooked or perverted (; NAS)."

Hmmmm.

Then there's this:

"Diodorus Siculus (1.27.28) claims that Belus founded a colony on the river Euphrates and appointed the priests whom the Bablyonians call Chaldeans." (!)

And this:
"Modern writers speculate on a possible connection between Belus and one or another god who bore the common northwest Semitic title Ba‘al."

Ba'al ???

And, the name of one of the "fallen angels" (fathers of the Nephilim) was ... Daniel (Book of Enoch). (!)

One other piece of this puzzle needs to be brought up. The city of Dan was near Tyre, and when Solomon decided to build his temple (oooh, we're getting close to the connection with Freemasonry) he appealed to the King of Tyre, who sent him Hiram. Hiram's mother was from the tribe of Dan, and Hiram's workforce were said to be Phoenicians. Read: Canaanites, the ones around Sidon and Tyre just north of Israel proper - the ones who apparently made a pact with their Dan neighbors ... In fact, the Danaus of Egypt/Greece are also often connected to (or said to BE) Phoenicians! I won't go into the story of Hiram right now, 'cause I'm wearing myself out and you as well I'm sure, other than to say the legend of Hiram, Solomon's master builder, in many respects mirrors that of the Egyptian god Osiris, and that this story and the meaning behind it is part and parcel of the initiation rite of the 3rd degree in Freemasonry.

OK, I'll quit beating around the bush and spit out what it is that I see. Remember, we are talking about two allied tribes that were, at least in the case of Dan, the "black sheep" of the Israelites. Both were descended from sons of Jacob by a handmaiden (i.e. illegitimate) . Try to view these stories as allegorical or coded - indeed the whole study of Kabbalah revolves around coded truths. And let go of the idea that the tribe of Dan was Jewish just because they were one of the Israelite tribes ... Judah was in the far south and the tribes of Dan and Nephtali lived in the far north. The whole story of the Israelites strikes me as a story of a large group of people, related but separated into tribes, struggling with the concept of renouncing pagan gods and idols and accepting monotheism. Solomon's pagan ways illustrates the point I think, and in Revelation Dan is excluded from the list of tribes which are "sealed", specifically they were unworthy because of their "pagan traditions".

In other words, not too put too fine a point on it, the tribe of Dan were solidly pagan - and maybe their descendants sailed or marched out of Egypt and Canaan into Greece, Macedonia, Carthage, Sardinia, and eventually Scandinavia, Denmark (and the British aisles?), overwhelming the indigenous peoples along the way with superior ships, trading and warring finess and knowlege of metalurgy, carrying their pagan beliefs with them wherever they went. Maybe. I'm not convinced, but the ostracising of Dan from the other Israelites, their affinity with Nephtali and the closeness of that word to Nephilim, the fact that one of the fallen angels was named Daniel, their connections to the Phoenicians, the serpent on their flag, all make me wonder if this is not a pagan element more connected to Sumer and a much older pagan tradition than to the Israelites.

This, about an ancient historian, Manetho, who claimed the Hyksos settled in Canaan (further confirmation of the theory put forth in the documentary "Ring of Power", which I mentioned earlier, that the Hapiru and Hyksos kings of Egypt and the Israelites were one and the same), and another historian by the name of Berosus, a priest of Belus, is also very interesting ... remember, Belus was the father of Danaus in Greek legend:

"Manetho, a priest and scribe of Heliopolis, and the Chaldean Berosus, a priest of Belus, both of whom flourished under Ptolemy Philadelphus (285-247), composed accounts in Greek of the history of their respective nations. In the writings of the vanquished to the conquerors, both writers sought to demonstrate that the vanquished peoples were descendents of very ancient and noble civilisations. Berossus, in the Chaldaika to Antiothos I, claimed to base his history on Babylonian astronomical archives 473,000 years old. ... Professor Waddell, in his translation of the works of Manetho [6], said that the works of Berossus and Manetho should be seen principally as expressions of rivalry between Ptolemy and Antiochus, each seeking to proclaim their civilisation the most ancient. "

So Berosus, priest of Belus ("father of Danaus"), was defending his people, a CHALDEAN people, the people to whom Danaus belonged. This is problematic, for the area was not known as Chaldea until the 6th century BC, far too late to be connected with Dan, a (bilblical) son of Jacob. The paradox though is easily resolved, these are references to a "people", refered to as Chaldeans, that long predate the "Chaldean Empire", as I shall show, who's patriarch was Belus, or "Ba'al", the "father" of Dan. These references are never used in connection with Abraham or his descendents, and I believe this distinction is what is meant by Dan being represented as an illegitimate son of Jacob in the Bible.

There's much more, like Cecrops, a half-serpent king of Athens, Athens having just been invaded by the Edoni (e-DON-i) who were (according to the Greeks) descendents of Danp... everywhere I follow the Danau around I see serpents it seems. The story doesn't end with Dan either by any means. I am currently struggling with a book that totally rejects this theory about the tribe of Dan, yet traces bloodlines from ancient Mesopotamia all over Eurasia right into the Royal families of Europe (including the Balkans and parts of Central Asia) and England ... a bloodline he also describes as the "Dragon bloodline".

More about "John's" book and his interesting research later ...

I've had a bit of free time lately, and with nothing better to do one day I was glancing over a Sumerian Language FAQ that I had stumbled on to.

http://www.sumerian.org/sumerfaq.htm

This guy is pretty smart, I mean, he speaks Sumerian for heaven's sakes. Anyway, there was a question, >"Why can't I find the word Beru? Can the word ever signify a "day" or a "double-day"?

Answer: "That is an Akkadian word. Look in the Sumerian Lexicon under danna in the DAN section. Beru is the Akkadian equivalent, translated 'double-hour; league'."

I about fell off my chair. Not because of the meaning for the words given, but because here an expert on Sumerian language, with no hidden agenda, states in a FAQ that "danna" and "DAN" in Sumerian equate with "Bel" in Akkadian. (I live in Japan where "R"'s and "L"'s are interchangeable ... when I see "beru", I read "Bel". )

Akkadia, or Akkad, BTW, was adjacent to Sumer, between it and Phoenicia. Maybe I oughta post a map, so people can follow...



Apparently my Japanese reading habits weren't misplaced, Wikipedia states that "Bel" derives from the Akkadian "Beru", meaning lord or master. And right next door the Phoenicians were calling their head god "Ba'al", taken from the Akkadian Beru (Bel); father, or mother, depending on which story of antiquity you choose, of Dan or Danaus or Danna. Lest we forget that in Phoenicia the father of Ba'al was Dagon ... All things considered, is it plausible that the Phoenician "Dagon" and our word for dragon are really unrelated? And what of the patriarchal god of the Irish Tuatha De Danaan, "Dagda"? Or, for that matter, the name of two noteable midaeval French kings of the Merovingian line, Dagobert I and Dagobert II?

It must be obvious that the names Dagobert, Dagda, Dagon and dragon are seductively similar. I can hardly believe that Dan and danna in Sumerian were simply a unit of measure ... I suspect an alternate and far less boring meaning was also attached.

What meaning is given for the biblical name 'Dan'? It means "Judge", one will read. But there are other words used in the old testament which are more specific to the meaning of "to judge" - in fact, I read that the meaning of the biblical name 'Dan' is closer to "government". Government, Judge, Lord, Master, Bel, Beru, Dan, Danna, Danaan, Danaus, Danois, Dagon, Dagda, Dragon, Serpent.

I think one can see where the idea that a son of Jacob, named Dan, and his followers, took to the sea and single handedly conquered peoples from Greece to Sardinia to Scandinavia to Britain is, well, how shall I put it. Somewhat naive (even though I sort of bought into it for a while), though not totally baseless. A better way to think of it IMO might be, is that the meaning of "Dan" is far more expansive, the tribe of Dan with their serpent banner were just a single manefestation of this wider nexus, and the term Dan and it's variants are code for this pagan heritage.

So what about Britain?

This

was found in front of the "Newgrange Temple", thought to be 5200 years old, predating the Egyptian pyramids by 500 years.
http://www.knowth.com/newgrange-images.htm

There are lots more ancient sites of like age in Ireland.


http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/neolithic.htm

But there's a problem.

The only written records from Ireland that exist are mythological in nature, from records of other cultures historians have put together a cronology that is more or less accepted, describing numerous invasions by peoples known (in order) as the Partholonians, the Nemedians, the Formorians, the Tuatha De Danaan, and finally the Celts. (The druids, as I understand it, were an elite caste of priests who's presence overlaps these periods.) The problem is, the Irish neolithic sites pre-date any of these peoples.

So who built them?

I don't have the ability to, nor do I intend to, deal comprehensively with the Irish (and by extention the Scots). That topic is probably worthy of a lifetime of work. But it has to be addressed.

This, ironically, is one of the best and easy to digest summaries (of the mythical accounts) I've read, written not by a historian, but by an artist (why am I not surprised).

http://www.jimfitzpatrick.ie/mythology/invasions.html

The most written about (apart from the Celts) of these "invaders" were the Tuatha De Danaan (who's alleged connection to the Tribe of Dan is why I ever looked into this in the first place). They were supposedly a tall, enlightened and advanced peoples.

The roots of the Tuatha De Danaan is quite the mystery. Conventionally, they hailed from four mythical cities, Falias, Findias, Gorias, and Murias. From those four cities they bring four treasures: "from Falias Fál or Lia Fáil, the stone of destiny, which cries out under a lawful king; from Findias the sword of Nuadu, which allows no one to escape; from Gorias Gáe Assail, the spear of Lug Lámfhota, which guarantees victory; from Murias the cauldron of the Dagda, which leaves everyone satisfied."

http://www.answers.com/topic/tuatha-de-danann

Which tells us little, though apparently the four suits of the tarot (and by extention the four suits of western playing cards, for what it's worth) are derived from these four treasures.

There are a few sort of "left of center" theories of where the Tuatha De Danaan derive from.

http://www.spiritmythos.org/holy/mazur-gua...zur-guanche.htm



Awwhh, sheesh, I sure hope I can tie these loose ends together in a way that doesn't require incorporating gods or aliens having sex with humans again

But there are many theories to chose from. Hyperborea, wherever that was, crops up, as does Atlantis, Lemuria (a mythical lost civilization in the Pacific), Scythia, and Greece.

And then there is this ...



So maybe the Tuatha De Danaan invasion was a "homecoming"?

Yet all of this is but decoration on the cake compared to the research being done by an Irishman by the name of Michael Tsarion ... who insists that Ireland was much more than a backwater. I'll keep holding my cards, but his hypothesis are interesting and pretty well backed-up ...

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.com/...shorigins2.html

Next I intend to deal with the Milesians (sometimes said to be Celts) - and the Scythians ... if they aren't one and the same.

Far be it for me to defend the mindset responsible for what's going on in Gaza, or under-estimate the influence of Zionist neoconservatives in steering the US into the Iraq war, to say nothing of probable Mossad involvement in 9/11. But there are folks out there who tend to put all their eggs in the Zionist basket ... P4T's co-founder Rob was even accused once of being a Zionist agent. Hahh, give me a break.

They do have a point maybe in connecting the dots between the world's most powerful banking family, the Rothschilds, with the development of the state of Israel, however some of the claims I've heard repeated, such as the one where the Rothschilds were instrumental in starting the Zionist movement, don't hold up very well. Theodor Hertzl is traditionally credited with starting the Zionist movement, and in his diary he relates a conversation he had with Alfred Rothschild:

[Hertzl] "I shoved my chair closer to his better ear and said:

'I want to get a Charter for Colonization from the English Government.'

[Baron Rothschild] 'Don't say Charter. The word doesn't sound so good now.'

[Hertzl] 'Call it what you like. I want to found a Jewish colony in British territory.'

[Baron Rothschild] 'Take Uganda.'"

(...Uganda? )

In all fairness Herzl did finally win the Baron over, and the Balfour Agreement dated two decades later was in fact addressed to Lord (Lionel) Rothschild, but the fact of the matter is that in the beginning the Rothschilds were cautious and reluctant to get involved in Hertzl's project.

There are other flies in the "zionist-plot" ointment. The most powerful banking dynasties in the US, the Morgans and the Rockefellers, while they did initially enjoy the financial backing of the English Rothschilds as they were building their empires over a century ago, are gentile. It also piques my interest that the Vatican entrusts a great deal of it's wealth to the Rothschild bankers, and then you have the paradox of the "Illuminati". Whether a short lived secret-society founded by Adam Weishaupt in the 17th century, or the much older organization that "Svali", a defector, describes, it's Catholic connections are hard to dismiss. According to the "Weishaupt" version the Illuminati are said to have been created out of Rosecrucian and Freemason orders, the later of who's ranks into which the Templars allegedly sought refuge when they were expunged. Svali, on the other hand, claims that the Illuminati is much older, likely growing out of the original Templar bankers. And while the Templar's alliance with the Vatican can be shown to have been tentative, it's no secret that the knights' Frankish Crusader cousins killed many a Jew during the Crusades.

And what of the "Zeitgeist" paradigm, that organized religion was set here to blind us all to the truth ... Who's idea was that? Do the Jewish bankers of old Europe connect somehow with the Byzantine Romans who moulded the gospels to fit their agenda, or the royal families that emerged in Europe during the middle ages? What of the astrological roots of our religious heritages? How big is the conspiracy, really?

Dunno, but for me at least, these sorts of nagging questions and paradoxes began to evaporate when I started poking around in pre-biblical times, and in the myths and legends of Mesopotamia, Greece, Egypt, Phoenicia, Scandinavia & the British Isles. There is much less written about another corner of the world that may have played at least as important a role in how the world evolved ... Scythia.

The same folks who insist that Zionists are behind everything will also tell you that the vast majority of European peoples of Jewish extraction are descended from the Khazars (true), including the Rothschilds (true), and that Khazaria converted en-mass to Judaeism in the 8th Century (true), ergo, European Jews can claim no blood relation to the Israelites. (Probably not accurate.)

Khazaria, a vast empire north of and surrounding the Black and Caspian Seas, was once Scythia.

Any strictly historical accounts will invariably ignore the possible flooding of Medes, the Caucasus, and finally Scythia by the exiled northern tribes of Israel. Biblical scholars, on the other hand, won't fail to point it out. But I find it particularly interesting that all four of the major rivers emptying into the Black Sea are variations on the name of the northern-most tribe, Dan.

There is another relevant biblical tangent, that of Gog and Magog, understood to be, essentially, Scythia and the Caucasus ... or was Gog from Magog? Hey, I'm no biblical scholar ... all I know is Gog & Magog are mentioned in the book of Revelations and the area talked about is fairly well agreed upon to be roughly synonomous with Scythia, and the peoples synonomous with the descendents of Japeth (one of the sons of Noah)... or maybe, I think, it's not clear if Magog is supposed to be a person, or Gog was a person and Magog a place ... (typical!!!) No matter, it has something to do with the end-times (which I believe to be a lot of baloney, FTR).

Anyway, don't know about Mag or Magog, but the Scythians were a feared, respected and literate peoples.

A few blurbs about them:



 http://articles.gourt.com/en/Scythia 


http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/scandinavianroots.html



 http://www.originofnations.org/books,%20papers/Scandinavia.htm
 
 


 http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg25359.html



 http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/scytha.html



 http://www.varchive.org/ce/baalbek/khazars.htm

OMG. This passage implies a connection between the area of biblical Israel known as Samaria, the Scythian city of Samara, and Sumer.

I'm beginning to get a sense that civilization as we know it didn't just suddenly appear in Sumer ... it had been bubbling and evolving for many millenium. Something happened, a flood, or what I don't know, and these pockets of communities, while taking a big hit and thinned to great degree, continued, connected somewhat by similar (and related) belief systems, and traded (and sometimes warred) with each other. This is why we have the dragon-cult fanning out from various places, and similar pagan traditions seemingly based everywhere from Scandinavia to Egypt to Sumer to Phoenicia (and even the biblical Israel).

I THINK, that the roots of our civilization are very deep, that Sumerian pyramid-shaped heiarchy, astrological knowlege, pagan traditions etc. was shared in other locals including Egypt, Ireland, Scythia and Phoenicia with simple variations, and that the elite class in all of these cultures affiliated themselves with the symbol of the dragon ... or the elements that made up the dragon - this mythical beast was in fact a conglomeration of the eagle, lion and serpent (which explains ALOT!), and persists to this day. I don't think necessarily that today's ruling elite really can trace their roots back to this age ... but I'm sure they think that they can, and that they derive some power from this illusion, that only they are ordained to rule the stupid masses.

There's one other interesting fact that I failed to mention ... there was a city in Israel from about the 8th century BC, about half way between the cities of Dan and Jeruselem ... called Scythopolis. It is called Beit She'an now. Michael Tsarion believes that the Scythians traded with and had communications with both the Israelites and the Egyptians ... and of course, certain people think that the Israelites were the earlier Hyksos in Egypt.

But the thread that ties ancient Egypt, Scythia, and (finally) Scotland together is the story of Scota.

Apparently a Scythian by the name of Mil married a daughter of the Pharaoh Akhenaton and his wife Nephertiti. After many years and an extended stay in Spain, the Pharaoh's daughter Scota, and her sons (Mil had died by then) invaded Ireland, and displaced the Tuatha De Danaan. Scotland, apparently, derives it's name from this princess. There were other invasions of the British Isles possibly originating from Scythia, some say by way of Scandinavia, the Picts being one such peoples. But the Milesians (descendents of Mil) were also, in a way, Scythians. There were later invasions by the Celts, who are also sometimes accused of deriving from Scythia or thereabouts, in fact some refer to the Milesians as a Celtic peoples. It's all very confusing, but I think these sorts of details don't matter so much. The Celts, Picts, Milesians and Vikings who attempted to colonize Ireland or Scotland at different times, some more successful than others, can all be traced back to the general area of Scythia (and the Caucasus).

I have read, by the way, that our word for "military" comes from "Mil".

..............................
EDIT: I examine this more closely in a later post, where the Phrygian roots of the Picts are exposed. The Picts appear to be the same peoples as the Curetes of Calydon (Greece), which is why Scotland was once called Caledonia. It is nonetheless likely that these Picts were either originally from somewhere around the Black sea (maybe Scythia), or migrated there on their way from Greece to Scotland.

I love this quote ...

"The simplest things are always those the scholars see least. They go searching into the beyond, with infinite pains, neglecting the truth right under their noses" - Fabre d'Olivet (La Langue hebraique restitutee)

The same site gives us this, the word for "serpent" in various ancient cultures.

Mayan - Nachan
Hebrew - Nachash (Nashon)
Irish - Nathair (Nathrach, Nadder, Naase)
German - Natter
Anglo-Saxon - Addar
Cornish - Nader
Norse - Naor
Gothic - Nadr
Sanskrit - Nagas (Nadi)
Latin - Natrix
Native Indian - Nakopowa ("snake priest")
Sumerian - Nage (Annanage, Annunaki)

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.com/...antis%20ireland

Michael Tsarion believes that all of these civilizations originated with the ancient Irish - admittedly a controversial idea. I take my hat off to this guy, I've picked up a lot of information thanks to his diligent research ... but I'm not sure if I buy his overriding premise regarding Irish origins. I remain open to the idea, but nothing of his that I've read (so far) is particularly in conflict with the hypothesis that ALL of these centers of development evolved together ... which would have to be based on the assumtion that they all travelled and traded with each other, far more and far longer than we're led to believe. How the heck does the accepted wisdom explain step-pyramids, human sacrifice and serpent worship in Mexico??? - They don't, they ignore the paradox ... to imagine that the ancient world was connected, trading, sharing an astrologically based pagan belief system (that is incredibly similar nomatter where you look) is invariably overlooked. I'm no scholar, I'm just an idiot typing on the web ... yet the connections are OBVIOUS to me. How is it possible that these various civilizations are still considered (officially) to have evolved from dust and independent of one another?

No one really knows where Hyperborea, a mythical land described in Greek legends as simply "the land above the north", really was (or if it really existed). But many people believe it may have been Scythia. There are a few that think it could have been farther north, even Scandinavia or the British Isles (which fits well with Tsarion's theories). But there is some circumstantial evidence that places Hyperborea sort of in between, via the symbol of the Boar ... which I'd like to post. It requires first introducing the de Vere family.

That the de Vere clan is the stuff of royalty is not disputed, the Merovingian and de Vere lines meet at the latest when Prince Milo de Vere married the sister of Charlemaine King of France. Interestingly, Edward de Vere 17th Earl of Oxford is thought by many to be the true author of Shakespear's works (Francis Bacon or a circle of Rosecrusians he was a part of are another candidate). Anyway, Nicholas de Vere has written a book (which I haven't read) titled 'The Dragon Legacy: The Secret History of an Ancient Bloodline'.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopol...agoncourt_a.htm
http://www.redicecreations.com/winterwonde...veredragon.html

Additionally, the family claims to decend from the Danaan of Britain, and going back much further, originally from the Mittani, who were a powerful people seated in what is now southern Turkey/northern Iraq (Khurdistan) around 1500 BCE.

Atop the family crest of the de Vere family is a blue boar.



There is a legend of Corinth http://www.theoi.com/Ther/HusKalydonios.html (SW of Athens) where Meleager slayed a boar. Not coincidentally, a boar is found also on an ancient Corinthian coin.



From this information, John (the author of the this http://www.tribwatch.com/ladon.htm site) narrows down the Veres (and other bloodlines) to either the people of Corinth or the royal Calylonians, via Meleager (who was a "royal Calydonian") and/or, Atalanta, who shot the Boar first and left it for Meleager to kill in Greek legend. Furthermore, "Apollo was venerated among the Hyperboreans: he spent his winter amongst them". The Hyperboreans are equated with the Boar via the legends of Artemis, who sent the boar which Atalanta shot and Meleager killed.

The Pollack family crest (the connection to Poland is obvious), also features a boar. (Brown boar atop the knight's helmet. The boar on the Pollack crest has an arrow in its shoulder, which may represent a specific connection to Atalantis who shot the boar without killing it...)



"Pollack" relates to Po-Lug, or "Head of Lug". Lug gives rise to Lugia, which is southern Prussia, smack dab between ancient Scythia and Scandinavia. The "boar" is a Calydonian boar (Calydonia was in Greece while Caledonia is modern Scotland). There is also a "Lugi" peoples who resided in southern Scotland (!) - Wikipedia states that these people are unrelated to the Lugii of southern Prussia (yeah, right).

John, the author of the aforementioned dragon-bloodline website, analyzes the de Vere roots like this: Veres claim to descend from the Mittani who founded Methone (Greece), and from there joined the Gaul migration. (BTW the de Veres family is tightly linked to the Templars).

Nicholas de Vere claims that the Veres come from the Danaan of Britain, but there's a lot missing between the Mittani of Syria and the Danaan of Britain. John (and I) believe the Greek theatre lie in between, and he furthermore suggests that the Veres took the land route from there (through Lugia?), further explaining the de Vere adoption of the (Scythian?) Boar symbol on their coat of arms. My guess is that the use of the boar by both the de Vere clan and the Pollack family (who were likely descended from the Lugii), indicates that the de Veres passed through Lugia.

Who else might have the Boar included in their family Coat of Arms?

Edward III, William Wallace of Scotland's nemesis, adopted the Boar (blue as is the de Vere boar) as a symbol of his lineage. Less well known is the boar on the crest of the current US president's family ... with 3 boars (Jeeeze):



So THAT'S why we have an idiot for a president!?!?

Of course "that's" not why we have an idiot for a president, I was sort of joking. But the Bush family is seated from very early times in England, as was the de Vere family. The Bush's were seated in Yorkshire, the de Veres in Essex. It's noteworthy that the de Vere's received land and title from William the Conqueror for their service on the battlefield at Hastings in 1066.

I'm getting this information from the house of names, a fun site.

After I stumbled on to this site (actually "John" the author of Tracking Ladon Gog refers to crests there sometimes) , I tried to think of some of the families having anything to do with the establishment of the Federal Reserve or the Council on Foreign Relations, or personages having served conspicuously in administrations that furthered the banking and industrial elite's cause (that came to mind), and then I searched for their family crests... just for laughs. I was pretty surprised as to what came up:

Walker:
George Herbert Walker was George W. Bush's great-grandfather, he had extensive dealings with Rockefeller and the eastern financial and industrial establishment. He also did business with Prescott Bush, leading to the marraige of Prescott to his daughter. The "W" in both the president's and his father's names stands for Walker.

Seated in Yorkshire (as was the Bush family) from very ancient times.



Morgan:
J.P.Morgan was America's most powerful banker at the begining of the 20th century, he and his father Junius before him were backed by the Rothschilds. J.P. Morgan was one of the central players in the establishment of the Federal Reserve and the CFR.

Ancient family from northern Wales, Kingdom of Gwynedd (of Arthurian legend), said to have been seated there from before the Norman Conquest.



Interesting to note some other famous Morgans of this line ... William Morgan, American Freemason (1774?-1826?, disappeared & allegedly murdered while writing an expose of Freemasonry); Charles Morgan (1795-1878), US railroad & shipping magnate; and of course the famous Henry Morgan the pirate/buccaneer.

Harriman:
Harriman is also a very old family, original spelling Harmon or Harman. (Suggests a connection to Mt. Hermon?? Mt. Hermon is Mt. Sion, a very significant landmark near the ancient city of Dan in modern Lebanon... more about Mt. Hermon later.) E.H. Harriman built railroads in the US with Rothschild money, his son Averell was a player in the establishment of the Fed & the CFR, was a member of Skull and Bones, and helped funnel money to Adolf Hitler along with his partner Prescott Bush.

The Harriman family is said to be seated in Suffolk, also from before the Norman conquest, arrived in America very early.



Aldrich:
Nelson Aldrich was a Senator who's daughter married into the Rockefeller family. He headed the National Monetary Commission during Teddy Roosevelt's administration to study ways to stabalize the nation’s banking system after the Panic of 1907 (which was Morgan engineered). His "Aldrich Plan" preceded the Federal Reserve Act, the later of which he was instrumental in getting passed.

Seated from very early times in Suffolk, Sussex and Surrey.



Is that a boar !???

Roosevelt:
US president Teddy Roosevelt helped get the Spanish American war started, appointed Nelson Aldrich to study the need for a central bank, entered the presidential race in 1912 splitting the vote and allowing a win for Wilson, who signed the Federal Reserve Act. Later his cousin FDR appropriated all of the gold in America and got the US into WWII.

The Roosevelt family is also very old. Said to be seated in Devonshire from very early times, were granted lands by William of Normandy for their distinguished service at Hastings. Other spellings include Rous.



Taft:
President William Howard Taft was one of at least 8 Taft family members who were "bonesmen", in fact the Taft family help found the Skull and Bones order.

Seated in Cheshire from very early times, probably before the invasion by William of Normandy.



Clinton:
Scottish origins, seated in Oxfordshire. Granted lands from William the Conqueror for service at the battle of Hastings.



Root:
Elihu Root was McKinley's Secretary of War during the lead-up to the Spanish-American War, and served as Teddy Roosevelt's Secretary of State. He was a leading lawyer of the American Bar Association, and lent his legal expertise to the financiers and industrialists who established the Federal Reserve banking system. He supported the US entering WWI and the establishment of the League of Nations, and was a co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations.

The Root family is seated in Kent from very early times, granted lands by WIlliam the Conqueror for service at the battle of Hastings.



Kissinger:
From Saxxony, humble beginings but came to prominence for contributions to emerging midiaeval society.

This is a Germanic family and thus not really connected to my story [EDIT:2009, boy was I wrong about THAT! - notice the blue and gold theme, crescent moon and stars], but I though it was interesting that the Kissinger crest includes the Fleur-de-Lis, a symbol of French Royalty since the Merovingian king Clovis I adopted it. (The symbol has very old roots, representing "female virtue and spirituality" and often connected to the Virgin Mary or Mary Magdalene. Its use can be traced all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia).



If you go up and look again at the Bush coat of arms, you'll find the fleur-de-lis there as well.

Rockefeller
I got nothing when I searched for Rockefeller, but the family may derive from "Roquefeuil", a Catholic family from the region of Languedoc. Languedoc, which I haven't gotten into yet, is central to this story. Many royal lines of France and England (including several Templars) stem from this region.

I did find a crest, however, for the Dulles family. The Dulles brothers, Allen and John Foster, were lawyers for J.D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil company, the Dulles law firm also directed U.S. business affairs for key Hitler supporter Fritz Thyssen.
The Dulles brothers are said to have been cousins of David Rockefeller, they ran the OSS (predecessor of the CIA) during WWII out of Rockefeller Center, were both longtime CFR members and instrumental in the formation of the CIA, which Allen Dulles then directed.

The Dulles family was seated in northeastern Scottland (in Moray) from very early times, some say before William the Conqueror. Other spellings include Dallas.




[EDIT - Bill Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe, Clinton was his step-father's name. Blythe was also rooted in Scotland from very early times.]

(Continued below...)

I didn't find a crest for the Warburg family, but I found one for the Lehmans. Herbert H. Lehman was among the founders of the CFR, and Lehman Bros. is of course one of the owning banks of the Fed.

Seated from very early times in Essex, some say from before the Norman conquest.
(Note the 3 dolphins, Greek legends are rife with images of dolphins, Eros and Aphrodite are described as riding them. I have a feeling they represent Phoenician roots ... http://www.maicar.com/GML/Dionysus2.html




And this family was seated in Buckinghamshire from very early times, and were granted lands by William the Conqueror in return for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings:





....................................

It might seem like I'm meanering around sometimes like a drunk trying to remember where he parked his car. To some extent, yes, I have been and will be again guilty of meandering. Part of the reason is, I don't really understand the subject matter! . But then again, NO ONE DOES IMO. Very few people are writing about this very-out-of-the-mainstream topic, which makes it extremely difficult to find information. There are a few people though, I mentioned the anonomous "John", who is so well versed in ancient peoples that his chapters are difficult for me to follow - but he's light-years ahead of anyone else on this topic and a great source of information IMO. Michael Tsarion is more accessable, but has his own quirks, mainly a steadfast belief that (a) civilization as we know it originated in Ireland and (b ) the source of our troubles was the cult of Aton (Egypt). I will address that hypothesis at some point, but the ramifications of his theory, if correct, turn everything on it's head ... needless to say, I haven't come to grips with it yet, so I'll pass on commenting further. Anyway, there are bigger fish to fry at the moment, and until I connect some more dots, it's pointless to head down that alley.

Back to my "meandering" ... partly it has been on purpose - I sought to create a sandwich (the middle yet to be filled). At the bottom, we have the ancient world and pagan traditions, above we have the successful invasion of England by William the Conqueror in 1066. I haven't discussed the Crusades, but some of the families who would be known later as the Templars were very much mixed up with the Normans and the conquest of England, and the first Crusade took place not so long after that event (1095 I think). What I'm really interested in, is what's in the middle of that sandwich - the connections between the mystery religion sects in France that gave rise to the Cathars, Templars and the Merovingian line and earlier pagan centers in Egypt, Phoenicia, Chaldea, and in certain respects Israel and Greece, and their ties and similarities. Secondly, ties and similarities between those same cultures and the Vikings, who invaded Europe, married into those same families from the south of France, which resulted in a Ruling Class which persists to this day.

That's not to say that I believe that every Ruler of country or corporation, whether appointed, elected or selected at birth, can claim a line of descent to this ancient and ill-defined dragon-line that I (and others) keep referring to, but rather that many of them claim to, and rather that they impart importance to this bloodline, and had the Bush family not been descended from ancient Scythians (as evidenced by the 3 boars on the family crest, not to mention the Fleur de Lis accompanied by two very "Eastern" eagles), or their 20th century mentors the Walkers (sorry, but it FLOORS me that both the Walker and Bush families were seated in Yorkshire) ... neither Bush, nor his father, would ever have been given the opportunity to oversee the assasination of a Kennedy in order to enter the inner circle and become president of the United States. (Please don't take my inferrence of Bush involvement in the two Kennedy assasinations as anything more than the ramblings of a nut-job - go watch the vids yourself and draw your own conclusion.)

So, where's my sandwich? Ohh, yeah, I was talking about the merging of the bloodlines of the Viking invaders and the, how shall we refer to them, the Cathar-Templar-Merovingian Franks?

William the Conqueror was descended from Vikings, no doubt, specifically from "Rollo the Viking". The Merovingians, who cannot be ignored in this discussion, are harder to pin down, but they infiltrated and took over modern France from the north/east (modern Belgium/Netherlands?) and claimed to hail from the Davidian bloodline via the bloodline of Jesus Christ.

There is no clear evidence of this. The link in question is Quintus Tarus, a prefect of Rome who was supposedly the father of the first Merovingian King Merovich. The idea is that he was descended from Mary Magdalene ... but there is another interpretation, that the "Jesus" this Mary was married to was a guy known as Jesus of Gamala, a different person entirely.

Whatever the truth is in fact irrelevant though, the fact that the Merovingian kings clinged to this supposed Davidian heritage is what matters...

Rabbi Makhir, said to be a descendent of King David hence of the "Davidian line", was moved from Baghdad to the Mediterranean coast of France (an area known as Septemania or Languedoc) in the 8th century as per the Pope's request (no matter how many summaries I read, I still can't figure out why Rabbi Makhir, the Exhilar of Babylon would give an owl's hoot for whether or not the Pope thought he should go to France, but anyway he packed up and went there) ... bringing with him the teachings of the Kabbala. [EDIT: Makhir's move to Languedoc was most likely as per the request of Charlemagne, and he received lands and title in return.] From there (literally ... from his own loins for the most part...) sprang the Cathars and the Dukes of Anjou. To great extent, the communities that grew up around Makhir and his progeny soon became the fount the Templar Knights (and the Priory of Sion - if it really existed...) grew out of. That is especially true if you factor in some Viking blood ... it should be noted that the Crusades (during which the Templars came into existence) got started less than 30 years after the (successful) invasion of England by William the Conqueror, a direct descendent of Rollo the Viking. Does a Davidian line originating in the south of France have anything to do with the Vikings who entered northern France in the late 9th century? A more appropriate question might be, how on earth did Rollo, the leader of that invasion, wind up married to the granddaughter of Pepin II (King of Aquitane and the grandson of Charlemagne himself !) ??? Generally, these royal lines didn't approach marriages lightly. Of course it was an attempt to form an alliance with the new bosses in Normandy, but try to imagine ... here a Viking invader stomps into France and takes over the northern third, and promptly marries into the most elite royal family of all of Europe, maybe in all of history. That's basically what happened.

http://h1.ripway.com/sandersite/Bloodlines3.jpg

Toward the right at top, find Charles Martel and his grandson Charlemagne, Charlemagne's grandson Pepin II and finally Pepin's grandaughter Poppa of Bavaria, who married Rollo the Viking ... from there you get William the Conqueror (and his descendents the English Kings of history).

I also urge the reader to note the various marraiges between West European royalty and EAST European royalty in that geneology chart (toward the left side). Were these, too, strictly arranged in the interest of forming alliances? Or did common Scythian roots have anything to do with both these unions and the welcome mat that the Carolingians (French Kings descended from Charlemagne) spread out for the Vikings? I can't support this claim, but I sense that somehow a common heritage, and maybe even some "dragon-blood" was involved.

A little about OUR Viking roots. Did you know that FOUR out of the 7 days of our week are named after Viking kings, queens or gods? Sunday and Monday are of course named after the sun and the moon (Latin/Roman roots), but Tuesday is Tiw's day, Tiw is an alternate spelling of Tyr, an important Viking god.
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/martiana/tyr/index.html

Originally a god of law and justice, Tyr later came to represent war, and so is associated with Ares/Mars. (I remember that in French Tuesday is Merdi - I'm sure the other Romance languages also name that day for the planet Mars.) Two things jump out at me, first, the fact that in Hebrew "Dan" also means "law and justice". Also undeniable is the closeness of Tyr and Tyre, an ancient city in Phoenicia near Sidon and the city of Dan. The king of Tyre, if you recall, sent the master architect Hiram to Jeruselem to build Solomon's temple. Could the origins of Tyr and Tyre be the same? I'd be surprised if the words weren't connected. While I'm on that tangent, this may be just bunk, but it's interesting. That the word Viking derives from Six Kings. Six, in roman numerals, is of course VI. VI-Kings, 6 kings, Vikings. The 6 kings refer to the 6 Hyksos kings that ruled Egypt for the hundred years of the 15th dynasty. Whether that is the actual origin of the term "Viking" or not, I don't know, like I said it may be just bunk.

Wednesday comes from Wodan, an alternate spelling of the Viking god-king ODIN. Wednesday is Odin's day. Thursday is named for Odin's son, Thor, and Friday is named for his wife and queen, Freja. Amazingly, it appears that these were real people.

Here's a straight geneological line from Odin to an important Germanic ruler, Henry "the Fowler".

*Woden (or Odin or Bodo), King of Saxons (b 215, d 300) (m. Frea)
*1 Witte (or Wecta) I, King of Saxons (d 350)
*Witte, King of Saxons II
*Witigislus
*Hengest, Prince of Jutes
*Hathwigate, Prince of Saxons
*Hulderick, King of Saxons
*Bodicus, Prince of Saxons
*Berthold, King of Saxons
*Sighard, King of Saxons
*Dieterick, King of Saxons md Dobzegera, dau of Billung, King of Wenden
*Wernike King of Saxons b Germany md Gunilda b Germany
*Wittekind von Sachsen King of Saxons (Widukind) von Ingern of the King b 730 Germany d 7 JAN 807/08 (md Geva Eysteinsdatter of Denmark, b ABT 740 dau of Eystein of Westfold King in Raumarlike Halfdanarsson, and Hildi Eriksdatter)
*Wigbert Duke of Saxony Count in Engern, Lower Saxony, Count of Saxony - Duke of Saxony b. c 756, d. c 813 (married Hasalda von Sachsen, d/o Widukind, Herzog von Engern and Geva of Denmark, before 786)
*Bruno von Sachsen [Count of Saxony] b. circa 786, d. circa 844 (married Suana (Oda) of Montfort bef. 806. born circa 786.died circa 844.)
*Bruno De Harcourt Duke of the Angrian Saxons of Saxon SEE BELOW
*Ludolphe the great von Sachsen (Count) of SAXONY
*Otto I the illustrious von Sachsen b. c 836, d. 30 Nov 912 (md. Hedwige, Empress of the Holy Roman Empire)
*Heinrich I "The Fowler", King of the Germans (Henry the Fowler).

http://kyusa.addr.com/Beaumont/

For those out there that thought (as I did) that Odin was just a mythical Viking diety, here's a few other sites that attest to an actual Scandinavian king known by that name:

http://www.shocking.com/~gregbard/genealogy/fam00146.php
http://www.brumm.com/familytrees/5800.htm
http://www.mcintoshweb.com/clanmcintosh/people/norse.aspx

And for the record, it is my understanding that Woden or Odin just means King of the 'Dans', and that ALL Scandinavian kings of that period and earlier (Odin was supposedly born in the 3th century) were refered to as Odin. (Wodan, Odin and the various spellings of the Scandinavian king stongly suggest origins in "Dan", as does Denmark.) The "Odin" we are more or less familiar with just happens to be a particularly memorable king in a long string of them.

If you check all the way over at the right of the chart I posted above, (here it is again)
http://h1.ripway.com/sandersite/Bloodlines3.jpg

... you'll find Henry "The Fowler", founder of the Saxon Kings. This line produced many prominent crusaders and kings of Jeruselem. His descendant Ida (of Lorraine)'s husband, Eustace II, was descended from Alfred the Great, a patriarch of English and Scottish kings who was ALSO descended from Odin (located toward the left of the chart). Alfred's blood gets mixed in with the royals of the East when Edward the Elder's daughter Adiva marries Bolesiav I of Bohemia, and that blood gets mixed up again with Scottish and English royalty when Agatha of Bulgaria marries Edward the Exile, producing Margaret, Queen of Scotland. Her marraige to Malcom III produced both Matilda, who married Henry I son of William the Conqueror on one hand, and David I of Scotland on the other, from whom the Robert the Bruces are descended. The roots of the alliance between the Templar knights and the royals of Scotland begins in this period [UPDATE (July2008) - Woah was I naive! The roots of the Scottish/Templar alliance are much older and deeper - ], but I'll touch on that later. The point is, the blood of Odin leaked into the royal bloodlines of France and England via several paths, in fact the Queen of England herself claims to carry the "blood of Woden".

However, the most important Scandinavian patriarch of European royalty is "Rollo the Viking".
http://www.answers.com/topic/rollo

Rollo was said to be such a giant of a man that a horse couldn't carry him (very doubtful), and that he and his men kicked the ever-lovin' sh#t out of the entire north of France (not in doubt).

...(will add more soon, going to bed)

Who were the Vikings? Historians say they were Scythians (or Sarmatians ... Sarmatia was in the western portion of Scythia north of the Black Sea), who emmigrated (invaded might be the better word) and mixed with the indigenous peoples there.


http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/vikingai/vikingai.htm

When historians also tell us that the Picts of Scotland came from Scythia, they note that they arrived there via Scandinavia. It may not be correct to call them all one people, but they are connected.

[EDIT: The Picts may well not have arrived in Scotland via Scandinavia, I have located the source of this confusion which I mention in a later post.]

But what about this? If you just go to google-image and search for Viking and Phoenician ships, you get a lot of pictures like this.



I have no idea how we know that both cultures dyed their sails in red and white stripes, or if they did, but their ships certainly most often are depicted that way. Additionally, in the upper right corner above is the Civic Heraldry of Lebanon, complete with red and white stripes (modern Lebanon and ancient Phoenicia are essentially the same place).

Phoenicia was famous for a purple-red dye made from the murex snail, which is often connected to the color worn by royalty, however the dye made from the Phoenician snail may not be the red used to color their sails.

Interestingly, the Tribe of Dan is also associated with a banner of Red and White -

http://watch.pair.com/dan.html

http://abrieflookattomorrow.com/striking_distance.htm

A couple of other flags contain red and white stripes ... we're all familiar with the American flag of course, maybe not with the flag of the Dutch East India Trading Company, the largest and most lucrative operation in Imperial England, one of who's flags was the red cross on white, with horizontal red and white stripes.




The British flag also incorporates the red cross, and there's a good reason to believe this is in fact taken from the Templars - just look at the crest of the City of London. (The Templar shield flanked by two dragons! - jeeeze!!!) The English anscestral home of the Templars was of course the Crown Temple Church, at the western edge of the "City", or "square mile" as it is sometimes called. The City of London, for those not familiar, is a sovereign city-state in the heart of London, unburdened by English laws or juristiction, complete with it's own police force. A few blocks away from the Crown Temple Church is the Bank of England, the center of western banking. This is no surprise because the Templars are in fact the fathers of modern banking. In medeival Europe you could hand over your gold to the Templars in one city, get a reciept in return, travel to another city and exchange that reciept for an equal amount of gold (minus a service charge I would imagine), and not worry about being robbed on the way. Their prodigious lending to kings and queens is what finally got them into trouble, when King Phillip IV of France, who owed them way too much money, decided that one way to get out of debt was just to round the Knights up and burn them at the stake for heresy, which he did between the years 1307 and 1314.

Some of the surviving Templars fled to Scotland, which is really interesting. A few hundred years before that, some members of the St. Clair (Sinclair) family (you may recognise the name if you saw or read 'the Da Vinci Code', or 'Holy Blood Holy Grail' which it is based on) decided not to accompany William Duke of Normandy (William the Conqueror) on his foray of conquest into England in 1066, and instead picked up and moved to Scotland. I'm a little fuzzy on the details but I'll look into it more and post later on it. Other Templars went to Portugal, which is why you see a slightly modified red Templar cross on the sails of Columbus' ships ... the Templars (in Portugal) were investors in that voyage.

There are other auspicious buildings inside the City of London, the English Stock Exchange, Lloyd's of London headquarters, and N.M. Rothschild & Sons Ltd. where the price of gold is set twice a day. That's a fun anecdote -


http://www.kitco.com/london.fix.article.html

By the way, the Rothschilds also own most or much of the Bank of England, have since 1815 when Nathan Rothschild, armed with advance knowlege of Napolean's defeat at Waterloo, perpetrated an insider trading coup in London. I bring this up because I don't want the reader to lose track of the dots we are trying to connect ... the Rothschilds, by far the richest and most powerful dynasty in the world, are descended from Khazars ... read: Scythians. Donald Kagan is one of the founders of the Neoconservative movement, his two sons are active in it was well. Kagan meant King in ancient Kazaria. (Thanks painter for that info.) I haven't gotten to the Greek theatre yet, but why am I not surprised that Donald Kagan specialized in ancient Greece at Yale, and wrote a four-volume history of the Peloponnesian War? Speaking of Neoconservatives and Greece and ships, Richard Perle, globalist and media mogul Conrad Black's 'pet', close friend and business partner of Henry Kissinger, and warmongering neocon delux ("If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us..."), named his own company "Trireme" - which is a Greek warship with three layers of oars. The Phoenicians had "biremes", with two layers (the Greeks added another).

There are two other little tidbits relating to the City of London, and then I'll move on. King John, in 1213, who had been excommunicated several years earlier (this meant that the whole of England was excommunicate - no Brits could get into heaven), transferred the authority of the English crown to the pope, in return for papal grace. That agreement has never been negated. Even today, the power of the crown does not sit on the Queen's head - it resides in the City of London. HOW the power of the crown moved from the pope to the City of London, I don't know, I have searched for the answer to that question long and hard. All I can offer is to point out that the Templars were the pope's own militia at the time.

Secondly, the evolution of our legal system. You can't have a successful bank if you don't have a lawyer nearby to back you up - don't pay your debts, you get taken to court and thrown in jail. Indeed, modern law and modern banking evolved together - not just together, but in the same tiny neighborhood ! The Crown Temple Church, anscestral home of the Templar Knights, in the City of London, is currently (and has always been) the headquarters of the International Bar Association (!!!). After you graduate from law school and take the bar exam, whether you are to become a lawyer or a judge, you swear an oath of fealty to the International Bar Association in the City of London - all bar associations around the world are franchises of this institution. (Someone kick me in the head!!!) By the way, our term "passing the bar" comes from the gate into the City of London a few yards from the Crown Temple Church, where a bar was placed. You gained permission to enter The City and the "bar" was dropped and you were allowed entry. You "passed the bar".

Which brings us to "Admiralty Law". I'm not qualified to get into this too much, but the Universal Codification of numerous US laws (in the stated interest of inter-state unification) that has been going on for over a century is an attempt to move the US away from Constitutionally derived and common-law based statutes to ones based on Admiralty Law, the law of the Seas, the law of Commerce. Heck, you could even think of the Universal Code as the beginnings of "gobalization". Here's a good article that explains it all and documents the various legal statutes that have been introduced or changed (always in the direction of Admiralty Law, always away from the spirit of the Constitution).
http://truedemocracy.net/td-11/21.html

And this is an interesting presentation, by Jordan Maxwell & Jason Whitney - the Occult World of Commerce.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=7tABE4tAlrM

Before I move on, I should note that all of the Rothschild sponsored banking endeavors in the US are preceded by the word "City", derived from or in honor of, the City of London. This is true. National City Bank., National City Bank of Cleveland (from which J. D. Rockefeller received his backing), National City bank of Houston, and of course, yes, Citibank.

The overiding point to all of this is, COMMERCE. The Phoenicians were sea-faring traders. The Tribe of Dan as well. To what extent these peoples were conquering peoples is somewhat vague, but there is much evidence that they did in fact move about and take control wherever they went, thanks in no small part to their superiority in metallurgy (that's why it's called the Bronze age), weaponry, shipbuilding, organizational skills, architectural knowlege, and knowlege of the stars (all of these "virtues" were of course posessed by the nearby Egyptians and Sumerians, in fact they probably had them first ... but we're trying to move through history).

The Vikings also were certainly both sea-faring traders and ruthless conquerors ... and all of these groups share incredible similarities in their religious beliefs, the way they built their ships, even in the names of their gods.

Admittedly I've gotten here by a very circuitous route, but maybe we can return now to the Phoenician/Scythian/Viking connection. We know (or we are told) about the Scythian/Viking connection - what of a possible Phoenician/Scythian connection?

Regarding the Phoenicians, George Rawlinson writes:


http://cache.search.yahoo-ht2.akadns.net/s...=1&.intl=us

That was written by a Professor of Ancient History @ the University of Oxford, good enough for me. It comes as no surprise to me though that the ancient Phoenicians would have traded with Scythia, it's not so hard to get there by boat ... all you have to do is sail up through the Bosphorus straights into the Black Sea.



In my previous post I pointed out that our word for Tuesday comes from the Viking god Tiw, taken from Tyre, the meaning being government, war, or law, and also the name of an important city on the coast of Phoenicia. Tyre and Sidon were both close to the city of Dan and Mt. Hermon...

Mt. Hermon, which was the center of ancient Ba'al worship, is a mountain straddling modern Lebanon and Syria, just outside the biblical land of Israel north of the Asher and Nephtali tribes. At the southern foot of the mountain lied the city of Laish, which was attacked and claimed for their own by the Tribe of Dan and renamed "Dan" (circa 1100BC?). The peaks (there are three peaks, some suggest that the three pyramids at Giza mirror these three peaks) comprised the most important pagan landmark in all of the Levant - Mt. Hermon was thought to be the "gate" by which the "fallen angels" (fathers of the Nephilim?) entered the world.

From The Book of Enoch:



Sure enough, the most solidly pagan tribes among the Israelites, Dan and Naphtali (the similarity between the terms Nephtali and Nephilim, as I've mentioned, are obvious), lived at the foot of Mt. Hermon, and temples to Ba'al dotted the area.


http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/dan.htm

http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/articlede...?Article_ID=191

The Phoenicians had trading posts all around the Mediterannean, from Crete to Sicily to Morocco to Spain. Somewhere in between 800 and 1200 BC (depending on who you ask), they established the city of Carthage in northern Africa, which would remain within their sphere until the Romans conquered it (146 BC). I bring up Carthage for two reasons. Carthage was one of three main centers of Kabbalah-cult activity, the other two being Chaldea (southern Mesopotamia) and Greece. (Kabbalah will come up in my next post.) Secondly, archealogical digs uncovered a Topet or Topeth (and lots of bones) in Carthage. A Topeth was a "roaster" used in child sacrifice rituals.

I might not have been motivated to chasing down any of this info had I not been disturbed by what goes on every summer at the Bohemian Grove, and curious as to why. This is for real, America's political and business leaders do actually get together in California every year, and, in addition to some general goofing off and I imagine a fair amount of worldly discussion, don hooded black robes and watch mock human sacrifices. WTF!?? If I hadn't seen this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5755339785238050429
or Alex Jone's piece on the Grove, I probably wouldn't have believed this really goes on.

What possible reason could there be for such a yearly event to exist, and for distinguished politicians and business leaders to risk their reputations by showing up there? Actually, part of the answer to why they don't worry about getting busted is the fact that what goes on is so outrageous that they know very few people would believe it even if they saw it with their own eyes ... but the question of why this tradition even exists remains. Hopefully this thread makes some inroads into answering that.

"John", author of 'Ladon Gog', discusses the Carthage Tophet here (and the disconcerting implication that this sort of thing went on near Jeruselem as well).

From this page:
http://www.tribwatch.com/molech.htm


I find it interesting that the Carthage finds are dated from 800 to 146 BC... exactly the period the Phoenicians donimated the city - solid evidence that this sort of thing went on around Mt. Hermon as well is elusive, but I'd be very surprised if it didn't.

Mt. Hermon was also known as Mt. Sion, not be confused with Mt. Zion, which is near Jeruselem. Without question, the Priory of Sion, the "keepers of the Grail" closely associated with the Merovingians and the Templar knights, whether real or a hoax, derives it's name from this Sion. I have often heard or read the two (Zion and Sion) being confused, it makes me want to jump up and down and shout, "No, no, the two are not the same! This is one of the reasons Judaeism, Zionism, and the whole Kabala-dragon-cult stuff has gotten all jumbled up in our collective heads IMO. Sion equals PAGAN, The Gate of fallen Angels!"

And speaking of secret societies, boy was I (not?) surprised that, if measured from the Paris Zero Meridian (which was in use until the Zero Meridian was moved to Greenwich in 1884), Mt. Hermon lies at 33º latitude and 33º longitude. Do you have to be a 33rd degree Mason before they let you in on that I wonder? Goodness, what a lucky accident that I drifted into Masonry ... I touched on this before, but the ritual of the 3rd degree of Masonry is the re-enactment of the death of Hiram Abiff, who is central to the tenets of that cult. Abiff was the master builder of Solomon's temple, his mother was from the Tribe of Dan, his father a man of Tyre, (or) possibly from the tribe of Napthali. Solomon asked the king of Tyre for help in building his temple, the king sent Hiram, along with a workforce of Phoenicians. Solomon shows the finished work to Sheba - she is impressed, and he marries her. However Sheba wants to meet the architect, who she falls in love with, and that spells the end of Hiram. Three builders (chosen by Solomon to exact his revenge), who feel jilted for Hiram having witheld the secrets of Masonry from them, try in turn to force Hiram into revealing the key to his knowlege, which he will not do, and so they kill him.


http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/story_of_hiram_abiff.htm


I wanted to point out these similarities between the Hiram Abiff tale and the legend of the Egyptian god Osiris, but more than that, look at this, and note where Tyre is, the city to where Solomon turned when he got it into his head to build the Temple that the Templar Knights were so obsessed with and that Zionists and End-Timers to this day are all worked up about, in proximity to the city of Dan and Mt. Hermon.



Mt. Hermon wasn't just important to the Phoenicians and surrounding peoples, after Alexander the Great's reign the Ptolemaic kings of Egypt built a shrine at the southern foot of the mountain in worship of Pan, the Greek god of nature, calling it Paneion. Later, the Romans (actually Herod's son, Philip II, who ruled the area) expanded the cult center into a city, Caesarea Philippi, which was "a pagan center full of temples, Greek theaters and statues". http://www.welcometohosanna.com/LIFE_OF_JESUS/ministry15.htm

The city is now called Banius, an Arab corruption of "Paneas". The Greek Pan was, by the way, the son of Hermes ... and Hermes comes from??? You guessed it, Mt. Hermon.

Before moving on I need to make a quick correction regarding the Picts and Scotland (it seems the more I read the less I know ), and happily, in doing so swing right around to where I want to go, Greece. Not only does Greece fit smack dab between the Bronze age & biblical world (I've been discussing) and Medieval Europe (where I'm heading), it also lies between the two geographically. As all roads lead to Rome, maybe all dragons slither through Greece(?).

Anyway, I mentioned that the Picts, a peoples who arrived in northern England (around 1000BC?) and dominated what is now Scotland until the Milesians came, were Scythians ... and that the accepted wisdom is that they arrived there via Scandinavia. It turns out no one really knows who the Picts were, much less how they got there. I did learn why this view is oft repeated (and the source of my confusion - I'm certain one of my high school teachers put it into my head):

Bedes, an Anglo-Saxon historian (673-735) wrote, as quoted here,

http://www.dot-domesday.me.uk/picts.htm

Look at that first sentence: "the nation of the Picts, from Scythia [by which it is generally agreed that Bede means Scandinavia]". (His brackets, not mine.) Bede never said they were from Scandinavia, people just assumed he was mistaken. If they were of Scythian roots, could they not have arrived in England via, say, the Iberian route, as the Milesians did? I find it interesting that there are also some theories out there that the Picts were Iberian, Iberia being Spain of course, or a sect of Celtic peoples, as others suggest. Anyway, there are all kinds of theories, for anyone interested here's a couple of decent pages about the Picts.
http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/origin1.html
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/archive/article7.html

A word about the Celts, the Celts are about as well understood as the Picts. Some writers refer to the Milesians as Celts, or the Gaels as Celts, or even the Picts as a sect of Celts. Other writers strongly disagree, claiming the Celts were an entirely different peoples. Others go so far as to consider the term 'Celt' "so corrupted in the archaeological and popular literature that it is worthless."

I ran across this though...
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article...ils.php?id=7817

...which sounds pretty solid to me, particularly because I've been running across accounts of 'Celts' in places along the way ... Armenia, southern Gaul, etc. Either way, they seem to have arrived in Ireland and Scotland much later than the other migrations I've mentioned (Tuatha De Danaan, Picts, Milesians), possibly no earlier than the 4th century BC. (Whew.)

Another clairification, the story of Scota, daughter of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten and Nefertiti who married Mil and invaded Scotland with her sons, is somewhat controversial.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/...thhistory02.htm

Digging around though, I ran across something interesting, a bloodline spanning from the biblical Adam to Mil, or "Galamh, also known as Milesius of Spain" written by John O'Hart, a (long deceased) Irish genealogist.
http://www.libraryireland.com/Pedigrees1/Stem.php

He describes Milesius:



By the phrase, "on his return to Spain" I take that to mean Milesius was originally from Spain. The account of Scota found @ Wikipedia comes from the Irish chronicle Lebor Gabála Érenn, in which she is the daughter of an Egyptian Pharaoh named Cingris (a name found only in Irish legend) and marries "Niul, son of Fenius Farsaid, a Babylonian who travelled to Scythia".

As is the case so many times trying to look back thousands of years, the accounts differ. But there are some interesting clues here. In a version of John O'Hart's geneology listed at Wikipedia, Mil is descended from a string of Scythian kings, Fenius Farsa (great-grandson of Japeth), later Beouman, Ogaman and Tait. From there the line moves to "Gothia or Getulia, where Carthage was afterwards built" for a few generations (Whoh!! Does a Scythian-Phoenician connection not hit you over the head!??), then to Spain beginning with Breoghan (King of Galicia Andalusia, Murcia, Castile, and Portugal).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_O'Hart

In the Lebor Gabála Érenn account Scota marries "Niul, son of Fenius Farsaid", who you see in John O'Hart's list appears much earlier in history. But in this account they have a son, "Goídel Glas". In John O'Hart's geneology chart as well Fenius Farsaid has a son, "Gaodhal (Gathelus)". Goídel, or Gaodhal, is the eponymous (legendary but accepted) ancestor of the Gaels. (This is where we get the term "Gaelic".)

So nomatter how you slice it, the roots of the Scots (that is, the Melisians/ Gaels) are probably overwhelmingly Scythian.

But Scotland wasn't always called Scotland, it was also once known as Caledonia. Sure sounds alot like Calydon, or the Calydonians of ancient Greece, doesn't it?



Indeed, "John", the author of 'Ladon Gog' has no compunction in referring to those 'post-Tuatha De Danaan / pre-Milesian' invaders of Northern England as the 'Calydonian Picts'.

Which speaks of Greece...

I posted earlier about the Calydonian Boar, and it's use on the Pollack and de Vere (and Bush) family crests, and talked about how the Boar was identified with Hyperborea in Greek legends. Here's a link to two Laden Gog chapters dealing with the boar, "Vere's the Ham" and
"My Calydonian Boar Hunt" (I love his chapter titles.)

While the exact location of Hyperborea is open to debate, John uses Artemis and her twin brother Apollo to fix the origin of the Boar where I suspect it belongs ...



So far, this fits nicely with all the other things we know about the Picts ... but John isn't finished scrambling our brains ...



Allow me to try and explain some of this. First, the Curetes lived in Aetolia, where they (as per greek legend) participated in the Calydonian boar hunt.



They are best known for having protected the infant Zeus, supreme god of the Greek pantheon.

Hmmm, maybe I better start at the beginning (literally the beginning!). Uranus was the original ruler of the Universe, but he was a lousy father, hiding his children (the Hecatoncheires, Cyclopes and Titans - all by intercourse with Uranus' his own mother, Gaia) in the underworld. The youngest of these children, the Titan Chronos (Saturn in the Roman stories from where we get Saturday, Satan, and Satyr is Chronos of Greece), lops off his father's genitals and throws them in the sea, displacing his father as ruler of the Universe.

The correlation with the Osiris myth in which Osiris is torn into pieces and scattered around Egypt by Seth, whereby Isis reconstitutes the body with the exception of the genitals which have been eaten by fish, is obvious.

It turns out Chronos was not such a nice father either, you may have seen Goya's seminal painting, "Saturn Devouring One of his Children." http://www.astrococktail.com/images/saturn%20350a.jpg

Chronos' wife, Rhea, was tired of having children only to have her husband eat them, and so tricks Chronos by feeding him a stone disquised in clothing. She hides Zeus in Crete (the island in between Phoenicia and Greece), and summons the Curetes from Phrygia (middle of Anatolia, or modern Turkey), who come and hide the cries of the infant by banging their swords and shields in a frenzied dance.

The Curetes are closely associated with, or may be identical to, the Dactyls, the Corybante, and the Kabeiri. The Corybante are sometimes identified as a Caucasus people:

http://www.maicar.com/GML/CORYBANTES.html

...but the Curetes & Dactyls (the Curetes might have been Dactyls, or vice versa) and the Kabeiri are all said to originate from Phrygia. Collectively these closely related (or identical) tribes were known for their "war-dances, noise, cymbals, drums ... dancing and <s> religious frenzy and worship [of] the Mother of the Gods with orgies (from the above source). Here the Dactyls are also credited with the discovery of Iron and metal smelting and described as "mysterious sorcerers":

http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Kouretes.html

One other point of interest, Laden-Gog author John identifies Dactyl (altenately Dactyloi) as a word combining Dagon (the Phoenician patriarch god & father of Baal), and Tylos ... Tylos is Dilmun, or modern Bahrain, the resort-home of the ancient gods of Sumer.

Please bear with me, soon all of this stuff will tie together. (It's quite incredible, really.)

Rhea, the mother of Zeus who summoned the Curetes to Crete, is often identified with Cybele (Kybele), the Great Mother goddess worshipped in Phrygia. The Phrygian Kabeiri-Curetes worshipped this goddess, and a popular cult grew up around her and her mortal consort, Attis, which spread in Greece and later became so popular in Rome that the cult of Kybele became part of state sanctioned religion in the Roman Empire.

When I recently learned of this cult I immediately recalled the Viking goddess Frija (also known as Freyja, Frig or Freya, the wife of Woden). I never doubted that Tiw or Tyr, the Viking god of war and government and the origin of our word for Tuesday, reveals a Phoenician branch of Viking roots. So could Frija, the origin of our word for Friday btw, honor a Phrygian branch? And if so, could a third branch, rooted in the Tribe of Dan and/or Danaus of Greece manifest in the name of the Viking king-god Woden? Scholars tell us the Vikings originated in Scythia, while the Curetes and Corybante are alternately described as hailing from Phrygia and the Caucasus (Colchis), respectively. The Caucasus is the gate between the Black and Caspian seas leading from the middle east into Scythia, through which the tribes of northern Isreal (such as Dan and Naphtali) probably migrated there. Further cementing the connection is the legend of the Calydonian boar hunt, and the references (via Artemis) connecting the Curetes (who hunted the boar) to Hyperborea and/or Scythia.

This idea fits perfectly with passages I found in two of John's chapters, one, incredibly, about the VIkings:

http://www.tribwatch.com/idun.htm

And the other from his "Calydonian Boar Hunt" chapter, which touches on the Caduceus, the staff enrapped by two snakes carried by Hermes (a symbol used today by the medical profession).

Before I quote that passage though, allow me point out who Cadmus (same derivation as Caduceus) was. He was a Phoenician prince (which is why Hermes - same derivation as Hermon - carries the Caduceus staff) who's sister, Europa is stolen by Zeus. Cadmus goes off to find her but fails, and instead winds up in Boeotia (where he will found Thebes) - and a nearby spring guarded by a dragon which kills his mates. Cadmus slays the dragon and, on the advice of the goddess Athena, plants its teeth in the ground. From these dragon's teeth grow the Spartans. Cadmus and his wife Harmonia later turn into dragons themselves. Can you ask for a clearer allegory than that!?? Europa represents Phoenicians that have left for parts north, Cadmus represents others who travelled to Greece, where the dragon bloodline is reborn.

And on we search ...



When he connects Hermes to the Armenians, remember that Armenia was once a much larger place. If the Kingdom of Phrygia were marked on this map below, it would be centered about where 'Anatolia' is marked in the left pink region (modern Turkey) and extend to the borders of Armenia during it's heyday. While not represented below, under Tigran the Great the Armenian kingdom in the 1st century BC extended all the way down to Tyre and Mount Hermon.



This idea of the staff of Caducius being an allegory for a Hebrew-Aryan mix is remarkable, and I ascribe a lot of weight to what this man writes. But I'm not sure that the two snakes twisted around Herme's staff don't represent much more.

Attis, Cybele's consort, is mentioned in Zeitgeist for his connection to the Christ story - Attis, (unlike Horus) actually dies and is resurrected in the legend (albeit as a pine tree - an "ever-green"). If you spend any time looking over family crests, you will find this pine-tree from time to time, it sticks out like a sore thumb among the many dragons, unicorns, lions, boars and the like. I never knew what it meant - before now.

- On Attis and the Kybele cult:

http://www.celtic-twilight.com/camelot/wes...2r/fr2rch10.htm

The above article touches on the death/resurrection part of the story, but doesn't mention the "tragedy" that befell Attis.

Cybele drove him mad and he castrated himself.

So what'ya think the Cybele (Kabeiri) priests, sometimes called the "Galli", did to themselves? That's right, snip snip, and from there on wore women's clothes. When John writes in Laden Gog that "Sweet Merlin the magician was likely one of these slithering snakes", this is what he is talking about. These priests didn't, by the way, adopt a life of celebacy after gelding themselves. They um, er, well, adapted to their newly found sexuality.

And there's another word we get from Hermes/Hermon. Hermaphrodite!!! Remember the true meaning of the Seal of Solomon, the intertwined triangles? Union of good and evil, of male and female?

And finally we get to the cherry on top of the whipped cream on top of the cake. This is not my discovery, it is the anonomous John's, author of 'Laden Gog'. He writes that he was absolutely giddy when he uncovered this.

In order to ascribe the proper weight to his relevation, please remember the various loose ends I have been trying to tie together - The Phoenicians, merchant anscestors of the Greeks full of snakes and their paternal god Dagon and centered around Mt. Hermon and Baal worship; the Scythians, who's culture was possibly as old as the Sumerians with whom the Phoenicians traded, who produced the line of Mil who, after marrying an Egyptian princess produced sons in Spain that would conquer Scotland, and who lied in the line of migration between the Levant/Anatolia/Mesopotamia and Scandinavia (from where the Viking conquerors of medieval France and Britain would emerge); the Phrygian Curetes, who brought their Kybele cult to Greece (where they became the Calydonians) and finally emerged in Scotland as the Picts/Caledonians/Cruithne, arriving maybe by way of Scythia and Scandinavia or maybe, as their Scythian friends the Milesians, by way of Spain. I have been saying Spain, simply because I wondered if some readers might not quite follow me if I referred to the "Iberian peninsula", which is more correct. Of course the vast majority of the Iberian peninsula is in fact modern Spain, but the Portugese might not be so pleased to have been left out of my narrative, and maybe I was foolish not to do so. Where did the Templar Knights flee when Phillip IV started to arrest and burn them for heresy? To Scotland, and to PORTUGAL. (Where they knew they had friends.)

Finally, from John:

"I would like to share with you how fantastic the information in this chapter came to me on the evening of June 20th. I had "sort of" believed that Sheba and Dedan (grandsons of Abraham, Genesis 25) had much to do with both the Kabala and Scandinavian peoples, but when the information herein came to be, I realized how shallow was that belief until then. As it began to sink in, I went out to my porch; I looked up into the sky, and talked to God, "Are you showing this to me? Have you shown this to anyone else, or am I the first person ever to know? ...

Last evening, I was searching houseofnames.com for any evidence to support my case that the Kabeiri were Kabalists. I searched the "Cabeiro" surname first of all, and lo I was given a list of alternatives/septs including: Caballero, Caballe, Caballeria, Caballo, Cavallo, Cavallon, and more. I realize that these terms look like "cavallo," the Latin word for horse ("caballo" in Spanish), meaning that it may have nothing to do with the Kabala. I found it interesting, however, that the website's explanation on the family roots tells that the surnames listed are based on knight servitude. That of course evoked the Templars.[!!!]... "

He goes on, and you can read the details for yourself if you like, here in "Sheba Conquers Kybele" http://www.tribwatch.com/sheba.htm

But the jist of it is, the wild, drunken, drum beating cult of Cybele (Kybele), the self-castrating Galli priests, the child roasting Phoenicians and Amorites (the Amorites lived just east of Israel and Phoenicia - Molech who the Bohemian campers venerate in northern California every year is an Amorite god), the Templars, the Freemasons who the Templar order apparently evolved into, whose rites revolve around the Egyptian god Osiris, who's lost "penis" you can find in the obelisks decorating the City of London, Washington and the Vatican, the Kabbalists of Chaldea Carthage and Greece, (and the Cathars of southern France) were all one big happy family.

The male-female merging dual triangles also evoke 'order out of chaos' - which should give you a hint as to why these leaders of ours who don black robes to watch mock sacrifices at Bohemian Grove in August are so frikken dangerous. And why the banking Templars and Priory of Sion "keepers" and Christ-blood Merovingians, despite being portrayed in certain books and a certain Hollywood film as heroic and holy and nice, represent the link between the worst the Greek and biblical worlds had to offer, and our own elite.

..............................
EDIT: Hey, I just had a burger at TGIF ... and looked at the establishment's name on the red-white striped menu and suddenly I had to laugh. I'll never be able to think of that phrase, "Thank God it's Friday" (Phry-day - let's party!!!) the same again. ;)

Hi Sanders,

There's a program on the pHistory Channel right now on the US cable History Channel- "Quest for Dragons." You might want to keep a watch for it.

More info:

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=det...pisodeId=307218

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=131450

Feel free to delete this note if you want.

Thanks Dmole !




Haha. Well, we know the answer to that mystery now, don't we.

Still, the History Channel overall does a pretty good job with these topics, this is a must-see for me. Thanx for the tip!

OMG

How did I miss this, CADMUS, the Phoenician prince who slew the dragon and founded Thebes in Greek myths, was an EGYPTIAN !!!

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Cadmus.html

The ancient Greek records of Hecateus of Abdera, a Greek historian and philosopher of the 4th century B.C., say: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_History_...es/Chapter_XIII

And besides his sister Europa, Cadmus had a brother, Phoenix !

The shared roots of the place-name Phoenicia and the Phoenix, a mythical bird that rises from the ashes, should be obvious. Incredibly, in China the Phoenix and the Dragon are partners and often depicted together ...



Here, Feng Shui Bestbuy ( ) gives us the dope on the Dragon and the Phoenix ...

http://www.fengshuibestbuy.com/SL10217-dragonphoenix.html

I'd better stop, in searching around for info about the Phoenix bird I keep getting links about Quetzalcoatl, the Aztec feathered serpent god...
http://www.crystalinks.com/quetzalcoatl.html

And if I think too much about this Dragon blood-line showing up in Mexico and Central America 2500 years ago (which I'm sure it must, given the step pyramids, astrological knowlege, human sacrifice rituals and other similarities that appear to connect the various Meso-america indians with ancient pagan cultures), or how it managed to slither over there, I think my head will explode.

If I said that Dracula was connected up with all this, you'd probably laugh and ask me what I was smokin'.


But guess what.......?

The inspiration for the story of Dracula was Vlad Tepes, or Vlad III the Impaler, a Romanian prince of Walachia who's father, Vlad II, was an illegitimate son of Mircea, of the House of Basarab. Walachia was ruled at that time by Hungary, and Vlad II was sent (possibly first as a hostage) to the house of the Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund I, King of Hungary, where he spent his formative years as a page. He was well accepted there and invited to join Sigismund's Order of the Dragon, from where Vlad aquired the name Dracul. His son, Vlad III, was therefore referred to as son of Dracul, or Dracul-a, and went on to become the feared Vlad Tepes, Prince of Walachia.

Sigismund is sometimes represented as a king of the Merovingian line, but when I started poking around trying to find some confirmation, I got nothing. The problem is, Sigismund was a Germanic Holy Roman Emperor, and those guys (at first glance) seem to be totally separate from the Frankish Kings.

The Frankish Kings went through two main dynasties, the Merovingians (who first united Gaul), and the Carolingians. This is somewhat interesting because there is actually, I and many believe, a continuous bloodline that connects the two, the main difference between the dynasties was sort of a renegotiation of the Frankish kings' relationship with the Church of Rome, to take poetic liberties. The Merovingians appear to have maintained a tentative alliance with the Church, but there were fatal differences in the way the two operated . The Merovingians condoned hereditery or "messianic" succession while the Church promoted "Apostolic" succession. Essentially, the Merovingians, as did the Davidic kings they claimed to be descended from, transferred power via the blood-line, whereas in the Church it was transfered by ordination. Also there was the obvious little problem that, while the Merovingians beginning with Clovis had converted to Christianity, they were basically Kabbalistic pagans, while the Church at the time suffered, I believe, from a strong identity with the solar-cult of Aton, those two traditions having been anathema to one another since the ruinous reign of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaton who tried to force Atonism on the Egyptians of the 18th dynasty. I am starting to see that a struggle between these two schools, the solar-cult of Aton and the pagan Kabbalists (neither of which many people know much or anything about ironically), has played a significant role throughout history. IMO (still digging).

Anyway, after nearly three centuries of rule there came a period of inept or unremarkable Merovingian rulers, during which time power gradually transferred to the "Mayors of the Palace"...


http://www.infidels.org/library/historical.../chapter_6.html

(This looks like a pretty good article btw, I've been digging into this stuff for almost 2 years now and I knew that Rome played a significant role in the switch from the Merovingian line to the Carolingian line, yet very few pages yeilded by my search a minute ago recognised that little detail - oh, how the truth is hidden from us ... I haven't read all of that piece yet - but I will - after which I'll probably have to edit a bunch of this post )

...and so a Rome-sanctioned version of the Frankish Kings proceeded, with Charles Martel, Pepin the Short, the illustrious Charlemagne and his sons and their anscestors ... but the Merovingian line may well have continued through the back door, via the wife of Pepin, Bertrada "broadfoot" de Laon.



As one would expect, much of the data is spotty and certain critical facts are unknowable. But we have to work with what info we can get ahold of (alot like 9/11, eh??). Bertrada "broadfoot" de Laon's descendency from the Merovingians is somewhat controversial (the problem is with her grandmother Bertha of Prum btw). But, considering later events, I'll err on the side of conventional wisdom that the line continued.

So, assuming we have established descendency from the Merovingian line to the Carolingian line (of Charlemagne), that doesn't get us to the Germanic Emperors of which Sigismund was one of.

The Germanic Emperors leading to Sigismund are as follows:

Otto I • Otto II • Otto III • Henry II • Conrad II • Henry III • Henry IV • Henry V • Lothair II • Frederick I • Henry VI • Otto IV • Frederick II • Henry VII • Louis IV • Charles IV • Sigismund.

Sigismund sounds AWFULLY Merovingian to me, and I had read that he was a Merovingian so many times that I couldn't believe he wasn't descended from that lot, especially having stumbled on to the bit about his "Order of the Dragon" that Vlad the Impaler's father was an inductee into. But I couldn't find the connection. ... until I googled Otto I the Great (Duke of Saxony, King of Germany, King of Italy), the first of the Holy Roman Emperors. Otto was the son of Henry the Fowler!

Henry the Fowler's mother was Hedwiga, a great-great grand-daughter of Charlemagne. THERE's the Merovingian connection.

But I'm doubly pleased by this discovery ... because Henry the Fowler, on his father's side, is descended from Vikings as well - Woden in fact (see geneology above).

(This same blending of Viking and Merovingian blood resulted in the Royal lines that so dominated Europe, and, a century and a half after Henry the Fowler, conquered England.)

Hi Sanders,

I think you have missed a few details (but maybe I missed them up-thread in my quick scan)- how about the Teutonic Knights or the Livonian "Brotherhood of the Sword?" The last young woman that I met from Riga was WELL WORTH throwing over one's shoulder- errr... ARRRRGH!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livonian_Brothers_of_the_Sword

There is also a related group that used a black motif, rather than a red one on their shields, but I can't recall that denomination right now.

There is evidence that the "northern" Germanic tribes actually went back to the "Viking stone age," and this predates Bibles, Egypt, papyrus, Scythia, Babylon, etc. We might need to delve into Michael Cremo's work here though. Incidentally, there was an extremely heavy rune-engraved Viking longboat anchor stone found in WTF--Oklahoma--WTF??? of all places.

In my research wondering what exactly the role of the "camera-shy" Norwegian Vikings was, I discovered that depending upon the time-frame and marriage, the Norwegian and Danish [Vy-]Kingdoms were actually one and the same. Now you want to talk about a "bad neighborhood"- try Vikings to both the east and west, with the Arctic Circle to the north, and the North Sea to the south- that's what the Swedish Vikings endured. Strangely there is little record of the Swedish and the Dan/Norw-VyKings fighting each other (maybe you simply didn't attack another ship with red/white striped sails)...

Now the Hun thing is interesting too. Let's not forget Attila and his horde. Hungarians aren't far behind the Russian Mafiya in the underworld "fear factor" either.

Why did those Roman legions apparently avoid the "barbarian" [and "bastard"-Norman- that's worth digging into] lands exactly?

I haven't provided sources above because research into the ancient "oral traditons" often leads to words like "ballad, legend, myth, legacy, ode, tale, yarn, rune," etc. Official "history" will only take one back so far...
----------------
Names like "... the Short," "...broadfoot...," "Red Cloud," - Yup, those are 95+% likely Viking (or else Native North American).

Also, that first Viking invasion at "Eastumbria" apparently led to the oldest Scottish Gunn Clan (later followed by the Mackay [or Mackey ] Clan(s). Based upon the founding of Dublin circa 1060 A.D., I would assume these were all Dan/Norwg "operations."

Yeah, I read about the Oklahoma thing. Vikings left some evidence of their presence in Minnesota too.

It's fortunate you brought up those things, I've been trying to read up more on the Vikings and Templars. Great info - I had no idea there was an Order like that way up there in Riga. I'll have to look in to them.

I want to thank you again, dMole, Riga appears to be quite the overlooked but important little corner, obviously part of the Viking world. Not only that, but looking into it led me to a great summary of a book by the author ... I don't think I'll have to pull my hair out like I did tracing the Scottish invasions, this guy has done all the work, and I am impressed.

http://www.eutopia.no/erildane.html

This is the second writer I have read who describes the Vikings as descendents of refugees of the Trojan war, who thus fled from Troy to the east, specifically to the areas around the Black Sea (possibly their homelands) where they remained for some time, until parting from there in a mass migration to Scandinavia. The key word in that sentence is TROY.

I did a bunch of research into the Merovingian/Viking/Templar connections once before, and while I did make a bit of headway, I was confused most of the time and kept going back and forth as to whether to root the Templars in the Kabbalist culture that eminated from Laquedoc in the south of France, i.e. the Counts of Anjou, Cathars, etc., or the edges of Viking influence in the north. I concluded it was both. But I missed something - the original leaders of the Templars were allegedly from Champagne ...



...which was not always called that - the original name for the region was TROYES. (!)

Thanks Sanders,

I don't think that author is looking far enough back in the "Wayback Machine", but the "kiwis" might find this bit enlightening:

"Some historians believe that a people later known by the name Eruls (or Erils or Heruls, depending on how you read the runes) lived in Zealand" Yep- zeeland (read: sea-land), like Norland(er), or NorMan.

http://www.eutopia.no/erildane.html

EDIT: "Eruls (or Erils or Heruls)" == EARLS perhaps??

[Disclaimer:

I wrote the posts in this thread (those under my name) as I embarked on a path of research, motivated purely by an intense curiosity, and I marked my discoveries along the way here in this thread. I was fascinated by the use of occult symbology in our media (and other clues), and the more I investigated the more I saw that the history, in fact "world-view" that we have all been told to accept is mostly balony. (I stand by that 100%.) However I concluded too fast that there was a linear connection between the self-annointed managers of our country (and, to a large and increasing degree, our planet) and an ancient "dragon" culture. And I have (somewhat mistakenly) described this culture as of a "conquering" nature in many of my posts. While I learned a great deal on my search for answers, and while the reader might find some of my posts interesting, I have discovered that my overriding view of the big picture was wrong.

The true dragons were a wise and just sub-race of Kings and Queens of antiquity, and they have been all but gone for a thousand years - exterminated by the Church and her clients, the long string of usurpers who traded loyalty to Rome in return for its (fraudulent) recognition of kinghood. The Templars were not dragons (I don't think), they were rather a military arm of the dragons, from whom they split and pursued their own interests. William the Conqueror may have had some dragon blood in him, but he was first a warrior and his loyalties lied with his own power-grab - he killed many true "dragons" (the elven Picts) during his brutal subjugation of the north of England - and, the descendents of his warrior co-usurpers from Normandy, "bully-boys" as they have been described, who comprised the moneyed-elite of America throughout much of its history, were no better despite their claims of blue-bloodedness. Far worse are the bankers, often the descendents of those Norman colonists, who have taken their place. None of these people who have caused so much anquish in pursuit of their own monetary gain throughout modern history are "true" dragons, though I suspect they cling to imagined thread-thin connections to those ancient families, while they have hijacked the symbology and 'religion' (for lack of a better word) of the ancient cults in pursuit of their own bloated vision of themselves as overlords of us "stupid sheep".

If you want to know about the true "dragon blood-line", don't bother with my drivel, read instead "The Dragon Legacy" or any other of the works of Nicholas de Vere.]



Hmm, not sure, I'm only concerned with the "dragon blood-line", the Aesar, Vanir and Erul peoples that arrived and their roots. If you're referring to the BC histories of the indigenous peoples that were in Scandinavia before them, as far as I know they don't have anything to do with the dragon-line. I thought it was very helpful that he pins the Aesar to the Sea of Azov, the Erul to the Crimea, and identifies the Vanir with other Danae venerating peoples such as the Svani. The Vanir were probably an Armenian people from the area of Lake Van, and "John" identifies the Greek Hermes as representing this group (and other Armenian peoples), and I have identified Cadmus, the prince of Phoenicia (i.e. Hermon, staff of Cadmius), as also representing a Hermes group while pointing out that Cadmus and Danaus left Egypt together.

I'm not sure what all that means, but I think it'll be fun trying to figure it out.



Yeah, and maybe a connection to Herakles/Hercules as well??

Heracles might be a good jumping off point. The legends of Heracles, or Hercules, appear to closely resemble those of the biblical Samson, in fact I just did a search for "Samson" + "Hercules" and got almost four million hits. From one of them ...


http://www.aeonjournal.com/articles/samson/samson.html

Both are closely associated with the lion, an important symbol adorning the crests of numerous families of nobility, including the crest of the UK and the royal crown itself. While Samson's father was from the Tribe of Dan of which he was considered a member, his mother was from the tribe of Judah, the symbol on who's banner was the Lion. Heracles was also born of a "mixed marraige" as it were, his father being Zeus and mother being a mortal woman. From "The Labors of Heracles:

"Heracles (or Hercules, as the Romans called him) was the son of a mortal woman named Alcmene and the supreme god Zeus. Zeus' lawful wife hated the child born out of wedlock, and sent two SNAKES to kill the baby. However, Hercules killed the snakes. Heracles became a strong warrior, but Hera struck him with madness, and he killed his own children...

When he had recovered, he consulted the oracle of Delphi, which ordered him to serve his relative Eurystheus, the king of Tiryns. [Sound a little like "Tyre"??] ...His first task was to kill the lion of nearby Nemea, a terrible animal. ...Heracles strangled it. From now on, he wore the lion's invulnerable pelt as armor."

One of the more important legends of Samson is also one that revolves around a lion that he killed (also with his bare hands), and the bees that infest the carcass. He falls in love with a Philistine woman, and poses a riddle to her countrymen, "Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet." There was a lot of bloodshed over this riddle if I remember correctly, but the answer to the riddle was that the lion is slain and eaten, and bees infest the carcass and produce honey, "something sweet". (There's an entire book out there that someone wrote about this business of Samson, the lion and the honey.)

The bit about the bees immediately makes me think of the Merovingians. Childeric I of the Merovingian kings was buried with 300 small bees made of gold which were discovered in 1653 when his grave was dug up, Napoleon appropiated them and had them sewn into his robe. I just found this:

"The Merovingian kings were noted sorcerors in the manner of the Samaritan Magi, and they firmly believed in the hidden powers of the honeycomb. Because a honeycomb is naturally made up of hexagonal prisms, it was considered by philosophers to be the manifestation of divine harmony in nature."

Hexagon, hexagram, sheesh !

There is another way in which the symbol of the bee is significant - the bee society is a strictly structured heiarchy - the worker bees keep "busy as bees" making honey for their queen. That, and the "perfect" geometry of the hexagram shape result in the "bee" being a frequently reccuring theme with the Merovingians and other crests of nobility.

The connections between the Merovingians and Samson don't stop there either, Samson was said to derive his strength from his long hair, and the Merovingians were known as, what? The "long-haired monarchs". There was even a Samson I in the Merovingian line.

The Merovingians are often associated with the Templar knights, who emerged in France long after the Merovingian dynasty had ended. The Templars shared Kabbalistic traditions with the Cathars and Counts of Anjou, as far as I can tell. This possibly all got started, I mentioned, with Rabbi Makhir, Exhilar of Babylon allegedly of the Davidian line of kings who settled in Languedoc (Septemania) in the 8th century. The Merovingians also claimed Davidic descent, through Mary Magdelene, who, according to the legends repeated in "Holy Blood Holy Grail" fled from Palestine to the shores of southern France, Marseilles to be exact, right next to Lanquedoc. Rennes-le-Chateau, the church closely identified with the Magedelene heresy, the Priory of Sion and the preservation of the Merovingian line, is IN Languedoc.

But the Merovingians aren't from there. Eventually they would unite all of Gaul, but originally they were Salian Franks, who appeared on the scene in the 5th century on the French side of the Rhine in northern Gaul. Wikipedia says about the Salian Franks,



I have to break off onto a tangent. I keep reading about pirates! Sidon and Tyre, where the Phoenicians parked their ships, were infamous as being nests of pirates. The Vikings of course were essentially pirates. Penzance, of broadway musical "Pirates of Penzance" fame is a town at the tip of Cornwall, once known as Danmoni, or, the "mines of Dan", where the Tuatha De Danaan or the Tribe of Dan or the Danaus (if they aren't all connected) used to visit southwestern England to get tin to make their bronze with. The whole Mediterranean was rife with pirate activity throughout the Hellenic and Roman eras. Even the Templars were accused of pirating, indeed flouting the law was one of their fortes. Usury was illegal back then, but the Templars went ahead and charged interest on their banking transactions anyway, and got away with it due to the power they enjoyed.

The flag flown by pirates we all know so well is known as the Jolly Roger.



Hard to look at that without recalling the Yale institution that has given us so many US presidents and Intelligence spooks, Skull and Bones.



The Jolly Roger comes from Roger II of Sicily, the son of Adelaide and Roger I, count of Sicily. Below Roger I is decribed as a "Viking leader", indeed Wikipedia describes him as the "last great leader of the Norman conquest of southern Italy." This is circa 1055, merely ten years before William the Norman (Viking) would conquer England btw. Roger's wife, Adelaide, will go on to remarry, this time to Balwin I, king of Jeruselum. In other words, this (the legend of the Jolly Roger) is around the time of, and involves the very people associated with, the first Crusade and the creation of the Templar Knights.

Our friend John, talking about the formation of the Templars -


http://www.tribwatch.com/roslin.htm

(Note - I think John made a slight error here, I'm almost certain Adelaide was Roger I's first wife, not his daughter.)

Anyway, now that we know who the players are, the legend of the Jolly Roger goes like this:

http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/wars_of_roses.html

I have read that Roger II was himself a Templar Knight, but I am doubtful. Nonetheless, he was certainly "in the family". In trying to sort out these family connections, I ran across this description of Roger II's uncle, Robert Guiscard, one of the first crusaders, attributed to Anna Comnena the daughter of Alexius I (Alexius was the Byzantine Emperor who's troubles provided the impetus for the 1st crusade):

"This Robert was Norman by descent, ... in temper tyrannical, in mind most cunning, brave in action, very clever in attacking the wealth and substance of magnates, most obstinate in achievement, for he did not allow any obstacle to prevent his executing his desire. His stature was so lofty that he surpassed even the tallest, his complexion was ruddy, his hair flaxen, his shoulders were broad, his eyes all but emitted sparks of fire, and in frame he was well-built ... this man's cry it is said to have put thousands to flight. Thus equipped by fortune, physique and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world."


So, how shall I neatly tie up this web of Templars, Skulls, Bones, Vikings and Scottish roots that I've spewed so haphazardly?

I don't like picking on Scotland, I hear it's nice and I've never met a Scot I didn't like, and the English Plantagenets et al that the Bruces and other Scots fought bravely against were a far more oppressive lot and even more tied into the dragon blood-line ... still, given the area's connection to ancient Greece and Scythia, to Egypt, and to the Templars and families like the Sinclairs, I think it holds special relevance.

Allow me to quote John of 'Laden Gog' one more time -





And from the same chapter (order reversed),





This is the family crest of Isaac Newton, who was an Englishman of alleged noble birth and a leading Rosicrucian, and it's Saltire cross of bones -




Personally, this stuff just floors me.

.........................................
I'll try to stay more on topic next post - and continue with talk of the Merovingian kings.

(P.S., thank you Laden-Gog "John", if you stumble onto this, I hope you don't mind my quoting you so often - you just seem to always have the answers to my questions. )

I wanted to get back on to the topic of the Merovingians, an important link in the chain, but to be honest they are a hard sea-beast to wrestle. Meanwhile, I had an interesting discussion over at Ocean Flow's board that is relevant to this topic (which btw led me to an important - IMO - clue as to the roots of the Merovingians).

A poster there and I were discussing the Nephilim, the Titans, and the Anunnaki, and the correllations between the three. During the course of that discussion, I realised that I misrepresented the Nephilim here in this thread.

In my own defense, the Nephilim are often equated in writings with the Anunnaki (the Sumerian Pantheon of gods who were the offspring of Anu and Ki), or described as the "fallen angels" - but they were in fact the offspring of the fallen angels.

The intriquing thing is, in Greek Mythology there were 12 (12!?? Again!????) secondary gods, the sons and daughters of Uranus (6 of each), who were vanquished for a time in the underworld by their father. Chronos (Saturn) successfully challenged his father (cut off his genitals), and ursurped the throne. In Sumerian legends, the supreme patriarchal god was Anu (sky), who, by his sister Ki (earth) begot the Anunnaki, the gods on earth - actually they were hundreds in number, distributed on earth and in the underworld. The Nephilim were the descendents of fallen angels, and are described as having been "giants".

Sons & daughters of gods, distributed on earth and/or in the underworld; Nephilim, Anunnaki & Titans all "giants" ... the similarities are too conspicuous to ignore.

This "dragon blood-line" discussion doesn't have a snowball's chance in h@ll of yielding its secrets if we don't dive into the Greek myths, IMO, indeed I think the Greek myths were a sort of code - a historical record to the elite, while being both a source of entertainment and a foundation for religion to the masses. Much of the writings of Lagon-Gog "John" are all basically an effort to de-code the Greek myths to uncover who the rulers of our world are, where they came from, and their movements throughout (and influence upon) history. And as all "dragons" seem to have slithered through Greece, I better bone-up. Unfortunately I was mostly asleep when they talked about Greek Mythology in school. I had no idea that the secrets to how our world came to be constructed as it is are hidden there in those myths.

Maybe I should just post some of the correspondence ...

In quotes, but my own words:

"You are correct, the Nephilim were the descendents of fallen angels. They were said to be giants, but the word actually means twisted, corrupted. The Anunnaki on the other hand were bona-fide gods, the descendents of Anu (sky) and his sister Ki. They were "distributed through the Earth and the Underworld" (Wikipedia), further alluding to them being fallen angels and an analogy of the Titans, who Uranus originally banished to the underworld. All of this seems to justify a direct correllation between the Anannaki and the Titans, but not necessarily between they and the Nephilim, despite the Nephilim being the "Giants" and as the word "Titan" would suggest."

"By the way, I just noticed that Uranus looks like a compound of Ur (the Sumerian city of Abraham's birth) and Anu. Coincidence?"

"If the Nephilim are the Giant offspring of the fallen angels, then no, they would be a mixed race - the offspring of male Gods and the daughters of men. The Titans, while evoking the meaning of Giant and, being the offspring of Uranus and Gaia as the Anunnaki are the offspring of Anu and Ki, are gods, or to be more specific, the sons (and daughters) of gods. Here, this is a bit sloppy, I made it up just for myself so I could keep track -



The Titans on the left are the male 6, on the blue background (Chronos, Coeus, Hyperion, Oceanus, Japetus, and Crius). The ones on the right on the pink background are the female 6 (Rhea, Phoebe, Themis, Theia, Menmosyne, and Tethys). All mate with their siblings exept Crius, and Menmosyne who mates with Zeus. (I added Isis as a daughter of Hermes and Osiris as being Dionysis just as a reminder to myself - Isis and Osiris are obviously Egyptian dieties, but there is a theory that this is where they fit into the Greek Pantheon.)

The Nephilim, on the other hand, appear to be the offspring of humans and gods (fallen angels?), despite their being often associated or equated with the Anunnaki.

Genesis 6:1–4

When men began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of heaven saw how beautiful the daughters of man were, and so they took for their wives as many of them as they chose. Then the LORD said: “My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years.” At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were heroes of old, men of renown.[1]"


This may be the most telling,



http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Nephilim.html


Well, I have read that the 3 stars in Orion's belt are represented in the 3 Pyramids at Giza, and that those pyramids mirror the 3 peaks of Mt. Hermon, so my curiousity is piqued to say the least.

Furthermore, in legend the Greek Orion raped Merope, from who the name of the first Merovingian king Merovee supposedly derives (!).

That last post might have been a little hard to digest, but it's really simple. The legends of the "fallen angels" and/or Nephilim, the Anannuki (Sumerian Pantheon) and the Titans (Greek equivilent of the fallen angels and the Anunnaki) are all just re-packaged versions of the same myth. I don't think any of this is based on reality, nor do I think that aliens from planet X (Nibiru), or gods, came down to earth and mated with our females to produce a race of giants. But I do entertain the notion that royal bloodlines would like to think that they are descended from semi-gods.

Forgive me for jumping around, but I just stumbled onto something. The Templar Knights, I thought, fled to two locations (Scotland and Spain/Portugal) in the 14th century as Philip IV of France was trying to kill them all to get out of debt. I just read that they fled, in fact, to three locations ... the third being an area in the center of Europe that would later be known as ... Switzerland.

The Swiss flag -




B.I.S.,Bank for International Settlements. Top dog in the Central Banking Heirarchy, is in Switzerland of course. A country founded by Templars?

You really must read Jim Marrs' 'Rule by Secrecy' if you haven't already and look out 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail' by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln for both of these sources go into the Cathars and the crusade against them by Pope Innocent III after Phillip II of France had declared them heretics (more for fear of their power on his southern boundary than any true belief). Once the Cathars had been crushed and dispersed it didn’t take long for Papal attention to turn to the Templars.

It would seem that it was knowledge they had about the circumstances surrounding the supposed non death of Jesus and the non-resurrection, coupled with his liaison with Mary Magdelene and the untruths weaved around this by those who formed the early Christian Church that was so explosively dangerous. Many consider that the Cathars and Templars had grown strong by means of exploiting the fears of the church. Then other political mechanisms came into play that began their persecutions - this being the true origins of the Inquisition.

To think I was in Languadoc in 1988 going with the family on a coach trip from Cape D'Agde to Andorra right through the heart of Cathar country and knowing nothing about the history of the place. Tch! I recall stopping at one of the mountain fortress towns, Circulades. Don't know which one but now have a hunt on for the pictures I took.

See:

http://www.languedoc-france.info/030600_circulades.htm

and

http://www.languedoc-france.info/03_see.htm

We turned off the main A61 at about Carcassone IIRC

See:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=...=1&ct=image

One can pick up snippets on the Scots and Irish (Delradia etc) in unexpected places and N.A.M. Rodger's 'The Safeguard of the Sea: A Naval History of Britain, 660-1649' is a mine of info’ on the complex maritime history of that area involving Norse raiders and the alliances formed and broken. Will provide grist to your mill I am sure.

As for Switzerland - there is another saga.

Edit: trouble with char' set.

Yes, I really must read more books. I'm in Japan, a good hour from the closest decent book store that might have a snowball's chance in h@ll of having any of Marrs' books. I used to be an avid reader of books - but these days I must admit that I get most of my info from the web.

Anyway, it appears that the Templar-Swiss connection is not imagined. Found this today ...
http://www.templarhistory.com/switzerland.html

Seems like a pretty balanced and well informed source. And like I said, it would make perfect sense that the Bank for International Settlements would be landed in a country connected to the original bankers. Something else that site revealed to me - the oddly close relationship between the Templars, who were sort of (IMO) fake-Christian Kabbalists, and the Roman Church, who were (in my opinion) a different version of Christianity (...somewhat of their own making, colored by the solar-cult Atonists of Egypt?). This always bothered me, the strong Papal/Templar alliance seemed odd to me given the ideological differences, and it has bothered me more and more the further I dug into this stuff. The aforementioned site provided the answer. St. Bernard of Clairvaux, who was integral in establishing the order, also used his influence to get Innocent II appointed pope. (!)


http://www.templarhistory.com/troyes.html

So the Crusades were also sort of an "inside job" .



Now that sounds like something I'd like to read!

My intention was to identify the Merovingians, and tie them securely to the Vikings, and to the Cathars and Templar knights that followed them in France. From there it's easy - Templars, Counts of Anjou and Vikings combine both forces and bloodlines, and go on to conquer England and invade the holy land, botta-bing-botta-boom the rest is more or less "history".

I probably could do it, but it would be sloppy and half of it might be wrong ... I still have a lot of reading to do. But the dots are connecting so rapidly that I can't contain my excitement or hold back from posting something.

I re-read some things I had posted over at Oceans Flow's forum a year ago on this topic, and was almost embarassed by my own naivety. But at the same time, I read so much bunk that passes for accepted wisdom, that I figure what the h@ll. If the reader will only follow me in my quest for answers and forgive me for getting some things wrong sometimes - and admitting my mistakes and correcting them as I go as I try to figure this stuff out - I would be grateful.

A good example is my torturous attempt (all documented here in this thread LoL) to track the Milesian and Pict invasions into Scotland ... none of which was in vain. I always knew that Scotland was important, if only because it was one of the places the Templars fled when Philip IV of France started burning them at the stake, and because Roslin Chapel was built there by a Sinclair - family of Rollo the Viking, who's descendent William Duke of Normandy conquered England. There's at least one more item that underlines Scotland's importance during this period in history, that the Bruces (e.i. Robert the Bruce) were probably of Languedoc roots, Languedoc as in Rabbi Makhir, patriarch of the Cathars and Dukes of Anjou ...


http://www.houseofnames.com/coatofarms_det...d=&s=brusse

(This information about the Bruces I picked up from "John" of the Ladon-Gog chapters)
http://www.tribwatch.com/ladon.htm

Above is the French 'Brusse' crest, not at all (I'm joking) like the Scottish 'Bruce' crest:



The whole Blue (lion/dragon-looking griffin like thing) on silver or gold / combined with or in place of the Red and White cross thing is a peculiarly Templar related theme. I will dive into that later.

Anyway, I return to my attempt to track the Picts and Milesians. When discussing the Picts, we connected them solidly to the Dactyls, the Kabeiri and the Corybante (who may all be essentially the same), who, according to most sources, hail from Phrygia, the home of the Cybele/Attis myth. But one source I posted located the Corybante as being from Colchis, in the Caucasus. At the time I didn't pay much attention to that anomoly, sheesh, there are so many differing accounts when you try to peer back thousands of years. But I should have been more discerning.

There was a kingdom right next to Colchis, in the Caucasus (in between the Black and Caspian Seas - modern Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia - not far from Chechnya - anyway still one of the most volitile areas of the world and the "gate" between the Middle East and ancient Scytha btw)...


(map courtesy of John)


... called, Iberia. Well bust my frikken buttons !!!


Do you see how significant this is??? IBERIA is what they call Spain and Portugal, where the Milesians settled for a while before invading Scotland.

I kept going back and forth, quoting various sources who claimed both Scythian and Phrygian roots for the Picts ... and here is the ancient Caucasian kingdom of Iberia smack-dab in-between them! How much you want to bet the Picts and the Milesians are related (separated more by time than by origins ... note that both are sometimes accused of being Celts, albeit pre-dating the official Celtic invasions), and got to Scotland via Spain/Portugal (Iberia)?

I used to think that Mil and his wife Scota, who's children are credited with the Milesian invasion into Scotland, were real people ... but it has been pointed out that 3 of their children, Eremon, Eber and Ir, may simply represent Phoenician-Greeks (Hermes peoples), Hebrews (Eber), and a Mesopotamian faction (Ir - Ur). Remember that their father was Mil of royal Scythian roots, and that their mother Scota was an Egyptian princess (even though Scota is not an Egyptian name) - this all points seductively to this story being simply a legend representing an invasion by a group of these Black Sea-based allies, whose roots are described (in code) as Egyptian and Scythian - which, btw, "feels" right to me. This is also starting to look not unlike the Viking migration to Scandinavia as well - a mix of the Aesar, Eruls and the Vanir (Danir?) from the areas around lake Azov, the Crimea, and lake Van respectively ... (all those peoples being once refugees of the Trojan war - and did you catch that most of the original Templars were from an area in France known once as Troyes!???).

In tracing the Merovingians (after much meandering LoL), I found myself looking for where Noah's ark came to rest. (Don't ask me why.) The place is called Mt. Ararat, as identified in scriptures. I'm not implying that there really was an ark, but I just wanted to know where this Mt. Ararat was. ...It's in modern-day north-eastern Turkey, centrally located between the Caucasus, Phrygia (and the other Anatolian kingdoms that will come up) and Mesopotamia (& Phoenicia for that matter). This made me more interested in the biblical genealogy from Noah - maybe I should post it, if only for reference.

This chart showing Noah and his descendents is not comprehensive, is only meant to be a guide. I've taken out a few generations between Eber (from where we get the word Hebrew) and Nahor, Abraham's biblical grandfather.



This article discusses some of these offspring and the peoples who are said to descend from them -
http://latter-rain.com/ot/gene.htm

Japheth and his descendents are given credit for siring a disproportionately large number of peoples, all throughout Europe and parts of Asia. Incredibly his name is very close to "Japetus", one of the 12 Titans of Greek mythology who I pointed out a couple of posts up. The similarlity between Japheth and Japetus doesn't end with the spelling however, Japetus' son Prometheus fathered mankind according to Greek legend - and "stole fire" from Zeus and gave it to man. Ever been to Rockefeller Center ? Prometheus guards the skating rink. http://manhattan.about.com/od/historyandla...togallery_4.htm

I find it uncanny that the name of the woodcarver in the Disney classic Pinocchio, who makes a wooden puppet which comes alive, is "Geppetto". (This is the oldest myth in the book, folks. )

More related to the Merovingians/Vikings is the legend of Manus - from where we get the word "man". Any semantic similarity to Japeth/Japetus/(Gepetto) is absent, but the story is essentially the same. The Germanic diety Manus is duplicated in the Indo/Iranian Manus, and the Irish Manannan mac Lir. Manus gave rise to man in these cultures, and Tacitus describes 3 tribes as the descendents of the Germanic Manus:

Herminones (Irminones) - settled the Elbe (modern north-Germany and Checkoslavakia - expanded into Bavaria, Bohemia & Swabia (German speaking Switzerland was once part of Swabia).

Ingvaeones (Ing) - Denmark and the shores of the North Sea down to Frijia (north Holland).

Istvaeones (and other variations including Thracones) - Holland, Belgium and northern France.

That's about as far as I can proceed at the moment ... (other than to point out the term "Herminonoes" certainly looks connected to "Hermes").

Not sure if anyone who has been following this thread has noticed, but as I've been trying to trace certain peoples, the Milesians, the Picts, the Vikings, etc., evidence keeps popping up pointing to the Caucasus, or areas nearby. (Caucasus=Georgia, Ossetia, etc.)

Hey, I had no idea! I was rooting for Sumer as the root of this dragon-line (it still might be, but the roots have become very convoluted to say the least).

I will be quoting "John", author of 'Ladon/Gog' in this post. "Gog" of Ladon-Gog is 'Gog' of end-times', of "Gog & Magog" fame (the end-times being a concept which I personally do not subscribe to). Regardless of religious prophesy however, Magog was a biblical son of Japheth.

These passages, from Answers.com give a cursory description -



The above "Rosh" is believed to be connected with the origins of Russia, Meshech that of Moscow, and Tubal that of a couple of possible places, one being Tblisi, the capital of moderm Georgia. (Hopefully later I'll get into the theory that the "Rose-line" has nothing to do with a rose, but rather with the "Rus".)


http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/cmc-21.html

Given that the original Gogi peoples were rumored to have been fair-haired giants (and no, it is no accident that Caucasus and Caucasian are practically the same word), maybe the roots of some other words can be traced to Gog, such as the Gorgons, the three sisters of Greek legend with live snakes for hair. ...Or "Gorgeous", or "Gargantuan".

I remembered that the most famous of these Gorgon sisters was Medusa - and knowing that Persians (Iranians) allied with Chaldeans (Chaldea of Messopotamia, birthplace of the Kabbalah cult) established the kingdom of Medes south of the Caucasus (which would spread all the way to Pakistan in the 6th century BC), I wondered if Medusa didn't represent these Persian Medians. Especially since the Scythians are rooted partially in the Iranian "Saka". What'ya think?

"John" thinks so too. I am doubly pleased that I found the relevant passage in a chapter titled "The Hercules Circle of Gogi" - if you remember, we discussed the similarities between the myths of the Greek Hercules and the biblical Samson (full of lions, snakes and bees), and how pointers to this Hercules/Samson story pop up often among the Merovingian kings of France. John makes for tough reading, but this passage is well worth the effort. He mentions the Parthians, who were a people (probably an offshoot of the Scythians) rooted east of the Caspian Sea, who's kingdom at its pinnacle (1st century BC) covered the same general swath of territory as the earlier kingdom of Medes. Hence, the Parthians replaced the Medians, or in Greek code as John reveals below, Perseus kills Medusa. Note also, that Perseus was born of Zeus and a mortal woman "Danae" (there's that "Dan" term again).


http://www.tribwatch.com/hercules.htm

[EDIT: I just figured out that the name of the kingdom of Medes comes from their (mythical) founder, Medus, king of Colchis (modern Georgia), daughter of Medea, both of "Golden Fleece" fame (!)]

Another of the Gorgon sisters was "Stheino". John reminds us that -



Lydia, btw, was in western Anatolia, west of Phrygia.



Not only is Lydia identified as the biblical "Gog" in numerous ancient texts, it is close to Troy. (Ever since I learned that the first Templars came from Champagne which was formerly called Troyes, not to mention that many of these Viking & Germanic tribes appear to share Troy as a geographical common denominator, my ears perk up whenever that name comes up.)

Not much is mentioned in the myths about the third Gorgon sister, Euryale, but the word meant "far-roaming" and evokes Europe, as does Cadmus and Phoenix's sister Europa, and this may be a branch of Gogi peoples who headed off toward Europe never to be heard from (in ancient Greece) again. (Just a guess.)

However it is the Gorgon sister Stheino and her connection to Liguria and by extension "wolf" terms such as Lykos and Lycanthrope (werewolf), totally expected as the Gogi are all represented through association with the twins Apollo and Artemis as being "wolf" peoples, which has piqued my interest. But there's more.

Liguria also evokes the Lugii. You may remember that with John's help we traced the Pollack family (which carry the Boar of Artemis on their crest as do the Bush's and the Veres) through Lugia (central and southern regions of modern Poland) earlier in the thread. Wikipedia: Lugii shows a little map, the Lugii occupied the green area (that's the Black Sea in the lower right btw) ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugii

Check out the other terms offered for the Lugii - they include "Lygians". Does that not tell us that John is on to something when he connects Stheino to not only a "wolf" peoples who begot the Ligurians and Lugians, but also to Lydia!?? And even as we continue to trace Scottish invading peoples (Milesians, Picts) to the Black Sea (land of Appolo and Artemis), we find that there was a Lugii tribe in northern Scotland!

http://www.babylon.com/definition/Lugii/English

The Scottish Lugii lived in Sutherland, and knowing that one of the most influential people in the world is Peter Sutherland (member of the Peter G. Peterson Institute for International Economics, regular attendee to Bilderberg meetings, etc.), I just had to look up the Sutherland coat of arms. It is unspectacular, with a lion and some stars ... but check out the Sutherland Clan Badge.



That sure looks like a wolf to me!

Now check this out. This is a 2nd century map of Germania.



You can find Lugi Omani and Lugi Buri toward the right ... but look at some of these other terms. Sarmatia on the far right (!). Sarmatia, same spelling, was a part of Scythia, above the Black Sea (often Sarmatian roots are attributed to the Vikings). The connections between Gallia (far left) and the Galli priests of the cult of Kybelle discussed earlier, or Pannonia and Pan, the half-goat son of Hermes (which may even signify the Phoenicians themselves), are both obvious and a whole other can of worms. But look a little down and to the left of center ... below Danduti (yet another "Dan" term") - and find "Marvingi". How much you want to bet here lived the future kings of France, the Merovingians?

If the similarities between names doesn't convince, look at the people just south of the Marvingi - Curiones. Does this not evoke the Curetes of Greece and the Cruithne of Scotland, both closely associated with the cult of Kybele and connected to the Black Sea via the Calydonian Boar, and to Colchis (modern Georgia) via the Corybantes, who they are all suspected of being synonomous with??? (See earlier posts regarding the Picts.)

Maybe I should remind that the Boar is prominent on the de Vere crest (and Bush crest for that matter), as it is on the crest of Pollock who John connects to the Lugii. These "boar" clans represent a major branch of the dragon blood line, as Nicholas de Vere (von Drakenberg) will tell you.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopol...agoncourt03.htm


http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/DragonsRant




So I keep picking at this and continue trying to read John's amazing (and very difficult to follow) book and we are getting closer to figuring out exactly what this "dragon blood-line" is. But I want to take a more general, overall, and less detailed look at this for a second.

We know that the Templars fled to Spain/Portugal and Scotland when Philip IV started arresting them. I have read that about 2000 Templar knights excaped the purge. We have learned that the ancient Scots, Irish and Spanish owe their heritage in great part (thankfully or not) to invasions by peoples rooted around the Black Sea - either "Royal Scythians", or Iberians from the Caucasus, or followers of the cult of Kybelle who occupied Caldon in Greece for a time, probably also rooted in the Caucasus (Colchis) and Phrygia. Previously you have an invasion by the Tuatha De Danaan, from Greece or thereabouts. I will show soon that the Merovingians, the Vikings, and the Templar knights themselves share common or similar roots, I've already pointed out that the Vikings, according to some sources, derive from three tribes, rooted in the Crimea, Lake Azov and probably Lake Van - these are all areas in and around the Black Sea near the Caucasus. Let's try to take one more step backward ... were those original Caucasus tribes maybe a mix between "Hyperborean" peoples (tribes from the Russian north - supported by archeological finds) and southern peoples like the Sumerians, Egyptians, Akkadians & Phoenicians? It's starting to look that way, the specifics of the (obviously related) Pagan traditions in these cultures seem to support the idea ... but that's a tough nut to crack. I'll just keep "hinting".

What's my point? Look at a map. This "dragon blood-line", a couple of milenium ago give or take, continually slithers around the edges of the Roman Empire. They go to Spain, they go to Ireland and Scotland, they pop up in Germania, just outside the reaches of Roman territory, they go to Scandinavia. Granted, the Romans were also pagan and "Galli priests" mutilated themselves in Rome, but this dragon blood-line, from what I can decifer, was a ruling class consistent throughout various pagan peoples with common roots, who branched out and conquered and prospered for centuries - but only outside of the borders of the Roman Empire.

This changed with the Merovingians. As the Roman Empire was collapsing and these "Salian Franks" crossed the Rhine into modern France, they took charge and eventually formed an uneasy alliance with Rome, ruling for a few hundred years there. The Cathars rooted in Septemania (Languedoc) in the south of France also flourished around this time (actually a bit later), but in fact shared religious roots and traditions with the Merovingians. They however were not so smart, and bore the wrath of the Holy Church of Rome. However, while many Cathars burned at the stake, their bretheren the Counts of Anjou played their cards much more cleverly and survived to mix with the Vikings, eventually producing the Templar Knights and overpowering (actually it was an inside job) the force of Rome in central Europe, ultimately producing the royal ("DRAGON") bloodlines of Europe and England.

................................................

When Philip IV started burning Templars, they fled to their homelands - Spain and Scotland (and, it appears, a place that would be later known as Switzerland).

We know that the Templar Knights were responsible for the Crusades, ....and the western banking system, ... and possibly the Freemasons, ... and maybe the "Illuminati" (if they actually still exist under that name - I believe they do) as well.

But I know that all roads lead to ... no, not Rome. To Scythia, to Mesopotamia, to Egypt, to Phoenicia, to the Caucasus.

(I may be a little off on some details, but I thought that trying to give an overview would help.)

Family crests are certainly helpful, and so are flags. As the Georgian crisis unfolded and I caught a glimse of the Georgian flag on CNN, I about fell off of my chair. It is the Cross of Jerusalem, the original Templar flag - practically unaltered!



Abkhazia is the northern-most province in Georgia.



They, like South Ossetia, are trying to separate from Georgia, so this is not to associate them with the "Templar tradition" as it were. I posted the flag of Northern Ireland, with its "Seal of Solomon" once here in this thread. Another element of that flag is an up-raised hand. Incredibly, the Abkhazia flag shows practically the same thing.



Now, I talked a bit about the Phoenicians, and their "red" dye which they got from a snail, which was really purple, and was so rare and hard to get that it became associated with royalty. This did not appear to be the "red" of the Phoenician and Viking sails, nor of the stripes of the British East India Trading Company or American flags that they may have inspired, nor the red and white banner of the Tribe of Dan for that matter. But, I stumbled on to something else ... the Phoenicians were well known for their dyes, and next in line to the purple of royalty they extracted from a snail was a RED they extracted from a "pregnant scale insect on the Kermes oak". Hey, that's what it says...

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry...man/0cadmus.htm

Carmine red, Cadmium RED !

I used to paint when I was a kid, I should have caught it. Cadmium red is one of the most basic red pigments used by artists. Cadmium of course comes from Caduceus, Cadmus!!! - So if you ever break out your acrylics or oils and reach for Cadmium red, you are squeezing out a bit of Phoenicia - and the word itself comes from Cadmus, the same (mythical) Egyptian that gives the Medical industry its staff of Caduceus with two snakes twisted around a rod, the same Phoenician king that slew the Dragon of Ares, founded Thebes, and planted the dragons teeth that would grow into Spartan soldiers.

There's another rare find in that above-linked web-page, which tells me that the North Ireland "up-raised hand" and the Abkhazian "up-raised hand" are both the sign of friendliness and trade derived from the Phoenicians, the first global traders of the world.



"Hey, what's up, let's do business". Give me five.

The Irish version is red on white, the Abkhazian version is white on red. I'm probably putting too much emphasis on this red-and-white theme, I'm sure there are many cases where its use is coincidental and unrelated to Phoenicia, the Templars, etc. In fact, other color schemes seem to be recurring and meaningful with regard to this dragon blood-line business and even provide clues to family origins ... blue and gold, blue and white (silver), or red and gold for example ... often in checks, stripes or chevrons, often a lion of one color on a background of another. (Still reading up on that.) - But the number of common threads that pass through the Caucasus of antiquity combined with a distinctly Templar flag of Georgia is just too much of a coincidence, not when a neocon-friendly administration digs it up after 500 years of disuse.

Oh and I just stumbled across this. Finally I give you the Coat of Arms of Tbilisi ... complete with the Hermes staff of Caduceus.

Heraldry update: Oceans Flow caught this and tumetuestumefaisdubien identified it. On Larry King president Saakashvili is seated in front of a flag showing a crest that turns out to be the Coat of Arms of the Bagrationi dynasty, who ruled Georgia from the early middle ages until the Soviet Union took it over.


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....;#entry10749444

Saakashvili once "jokingly" remarked that his grandmother was from this royal line...

http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=16019

Hi Sanders,

Here might be your connection between the Templars red-n-white herald/flag and that black-n-white Jolly Roger (post #22): the Teutonic Knights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Order



[Be sure to check the name on that Teutonic Knights crest]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Den_tys...dens_skjold.svg

I'm not sure where you want to file these 2, but they came up while I was searching for that crest, and they're damn sure related somehow IMHO:

http://www.grandcollegeofrites.org/collectanea.php

http://www.hermetics.org/rose+cross.html

I'd call this one your "missing link:" the Templar [pirate] Fleet. There's a book on this, but I can't recall the details- I should have bought it in the bookstore that day...

http://alandpeters.tripod.com/knightstempl...to1312/id3.html

"The Knights Templar owned estates of varying size scattered throughout every climatic zone in Europe from Denmark, Scotland and the Orkney Islands in the north, to France, Italy and Spain in the south."

I think you've nailed those slithering Merovingians in several of their locales, too. That Quetzacoatl legend will blow your mind if you haven't researched that much yet.

That serpent symbol is called an ouroboros. [Be sure to check those first 2 historical bits.] Here's a little more strangely familiar info on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

The hexagram also ties in with that black/white, sun/moon dualism inherent in some form in most occult groups (and Hegelianism) and nearly all things masonic (and possibly Taoism as well but it won't be easy to find many connections there).

Have we come "full circle" yet?

Thanks dMole ! Good stuff. Also, I learned that the skull and cross bones symbol can be found in Templar-built churches (sometimes said to represent the bones of Mary Magdalene? ... sorry, I'd have to go look for sources). BTW, apparently, the Jolly Roger was not universally used by pirates, not by a long shot. Then again, just because one was a pirate didn't mean they were a Templar. The Skull and Crossbones apparently has very old roots - even before Baldwin and Roger of Sicily (the advertised origin of the "Jolly Roger") there was a very old letter combination with deep religious significance, the Chi-Rho (P & X), written on top of one another and resembing the skull and crossbones. Putting that aside though,

The skull and crossbones are apparently used in freemasonry...


http://groups.msn.com/TemplarChronicles/vitriol.msnw

It's interesting you mentioned the ourboros, serpent eating it's tail. There's a whole aspect to this that the author John (Ladon-Gog) goes into about "wheel" terms.

http://www.tribwatch.com/wheel.htm

Fun stuff, eh? As for the Merovingians, I fear there's much more to the story. Clovis' claim to have been descended from a sea-serpent, and the closeness of Merovee to Merope (the name of several characters in Greek legends), plus the whole Magdalene heresy thing and the geographical closeness of Marseilles (where Mary Magdalene allegedly landed in France) and Languedoc from where Catharism spread (albeit after the Merovingians had exited the world stage), tells me there are a lot of dots to connect. .

One other comment, this came to me like a beam of light this morning. I don't know if I have mentioned this or not in this thread, but it occurs to me that monotheistic religion was not so much the introduction of a one true god in place of a pantheon of male and female god pairs, but rather the exile of the female god of earth and fertility in lieu of the storm god of the heavens. This is maybe best signified by the Aton cult of Egypt, whereby Akhenaton threw out all the other gods except Aton, the solar god (and was hated for it). Some suggest that this was the precursor of monotheistic religion, and some even suggest that Akhenaton himself was Moses. I seriously doubt that, but I have my suspicions that the perversions that took place in the early Christian church including the exclusion (and persecution) of women can be traced in part to this cult of Aton. Note that while the Merovingians, Templars & Rosecrucians took on the trappings of Christianity, they all emphasised the female, i.e. Mary Magdalene or the virgin Mary.

In making general comparisons between the ancient pagan to our own Jeudo-Christian-Western culture, I would point out that it's nice that we've long abandoned the custom of sacrificing our children (a part of pagan worship that our leaders may not have entirely forsaken yet? ... the "Cremation of Care" ceremony @ Bohemian Grove, fake as it is, comes to mind - as does Iraq!??). But I notice that here in Japan the dragon is one diety among the other 11 of the 12 year cycle, and in China it is balanced by the female Phoenix, together achieving perfect balance of Yin and Yang. In Meso-america the two were merged. Only in the West is the dragon a solitary figure, associated with war and rule over all. No wonder things are such a mess.

P.S., I was reading more through those links dMole, and this jumped out at me (article about the Tuetonic knights):

"After Christian forces were defeated in the Middle East, the Order moved to Transylvania in 1211 to help defend Hungary against the Cumans."

By coincidence, I've been looking at Hungary alot lately. Long before Sigismund's Order of the Dragon, Hungary apparently was an important hub ... I'll get in to that in my next post hopefully.

Yes, I don't think the Templars were "exterminated" at all, but they changed a couple of outward appearances and there is a definite Scotland factor there as well. They likely moved eastward into Saxon barbarian lands (up through Livonia apparently) when King Philip? began his purge.

Here's another 'coincidence' from my ourboros link and your mention of Sigismund and his Order of the Dragon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_Snake-in-the-Eye

"Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye (Old Norse: Sigurðr ormr í auga) was one of the sons of Ragnar Lodbrok and Kraka, but what set him apart from the others was that he was born with the image of the ouroborous, a snake or dragon biting its own tail, encircling the pupil of his left eye."

What's with the eye all the time? Horus and his eye, Odin trading an eye for wisdom, Dagobert II getting stabbed through the eye, that one on the dollar bill ...


Here's lookin' at ya -

This might be sorta long.

The first king of England, Egbert III, was married to a woman called Redburga ... we're talking around 12 hundred years ago, 250 years before William the Conqueror seized the throne of England. (Egbert was born about 775, died around 839.) Redburga's lineage is disputed, but there seems to be no question that she was closely related to the Carolingian French Kings (great-granddaughter of Charles Martel?), therefore she may have been related to the Merovingians as well. Quite astonishing if there was Merovingian blood sleeping in the bed with the very first English king, before Rollo had even swept into Normandy. Redburga's father is thought by some to have been Ingerman, Count of Hesbaye, Hesbaye was in modern Belgium. Whatever the case, it's pretty certain that Redburga's family were Franks.

Egbert ruled Wessex, and due to the dominance of his kingdom over the other provinces in England (Essex, Mercia, Kent etc.) which he unified under one banner for the first time, he is known as the first King of England.

While Egbert and his offspring were busy ruling England, Vikings referred to as the "Varangians" began terrorizing (I assume) their way from Scandinavia south-east through Russia, eventually reaching all the way down to the Black Sea and Byzantium. Along the way some of them put down roots in the Ukraine, which they ruled from Kiev as the Varangian "Rus".

Meanwhile farther south, Magyar and Kabar tribes moved west from Khazaria and settled in what would thereafter be known as Hungary. Note, the huge swath of land north of the Black and Caspian seas that I have been referring to as Scythia became Khazaria in the 7th century, and around when the kingdom was at it's height in the following century Khazaria converted en-mass to Judaeism. The above mentioned Magyar and Kabar migration west signaled, or was precipitated by, the fall of the Khazarian empire.

The term "Varangian" may truly be superfluous, for from what I can tell they were simply Vikings that were part of the 9th century south-east migration into Russia. They are usually regarded as Swedes, often specifically associated with Skaneland. Skaneland was the southern tip of Sweden (now known as Scania).



Allow me to point out though, that glancing over the ancestry of a certain king Yaroslov the Wise, a Varangian important to this story, I found that his ancestors ruled in Denmark, Novgorad, Skaneland, Zealand and Norway. Looks like a pretty well rounded Viking to me.

Supporting this, 'Ladon-Gog' author John makes a good case that the Varangians were not really Swedes as is often claimed, but Goths, and I found a few things which support that. One of them -

http://skaneland.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html


And,


..................

John, in various chapters, offers two possible derivations for the related terms "Rose-line" and "Rosicrucian", neither of which has anything to do with a rose (however the rose became associated with both the Rose-line and the Rosecrucians, maybe just for the convenient asthetic of it). One possible origin he cites are the Rhodians, a branch of the Danaus peoples who first settled in Rhodes (an island off the southern coast of Anatolia near Greece) after leaving Egypt in ancient times. His other view, one that I had never heard before, is that the rose in the Rose-line represents the "Ros", or "Rus", who he associates with "Rosh" of the bible, mentioned in end-times scripture in association with Japheth's sons Magog, Tubal and Meshech (all assumedly pertaining to Black Sea region "Gogi" peoples, possibly excepting Meshech who may somehow relate to Moscow?). End-times prophesy aside, the "Rus" in the term "Varangian Rus" certainly applies in this rose-line hypothesis, not only because of where these Vikings wound up, but because of their ancient Caucasus roots. For our purposes these "Rus" should not be confused with the indigenous Russians who they displaced or conquered along their trek south, although the Khazar and Magyar tribes who formed the land of Hungary should also be thought of as "Rus" in this context IMO, for they too originated in Scythia and/or the Caucasus, and they too were once Apollo's "wolf" peoples of the Rosh branches of Tubal and Gog. [EDIT - as I later investigate, the Hun/Mongol tribes' roots, when one goes deep, at least with regard to their leaders, appear to originate in Mesopopotamia - the area around Subartu and Ugarit, a very important archeological site, and that this migration extended all the way to Mongolia and back to Khazaria and then Hungary - obviously with much intermixing and diluting along the way, but Hungarian myths speak of their Subartu roots.] BTW regarding which of the "Rhodes" or "Rus/Ros" theories might account for the origins of the rose-line, I'd bet that it's both (I'm sure incorporating such double meaning must have been irresistable to the code-inventors).

Are the Varangian Rus in Kiev somehow connected to Hungary? Let me pose that question a slightly different way ... were the Varangian Rus in Kiev and the former Khazars in Hungary and the Frankish queen in Egbert's bed and the future kings and queens of England and Scotland and the de Veres and the Bruces and the Stewarts and the Jewish Cohens and the Lusignan crusaders of Anjou and the Holy Roman Emperors of Luxembourg ALL connected??? ... Keep your eye on the blue and white checks and bars.

I must say that much of the dot-connecting here, indeed the basic ideas contained in this post were gleened from several chapters of Ladon-Gog. If you want to go right to the source, it's here:
http://www.tribwatch.com/ladon.htm

Kudos to John.

The English were constantly being invaded by Vikings around the time of Egbert, Redburga and their offspring, and their grandson Alfred was so successful at fending off the invaders that he is called "Alfred the Great".

Alfred's great-great-grandson Edmund II ("Ironside") however ultimately caved to a multi-tribal force of Vikings united under a Dane by the name of Canute. As per a slightly bizzare treaty, upon Edmund's death Canute got control of nearly all of England, whereby Edmund's son Edward "the Exile" fled to Russia and took refuge in Kiev under the protection of Yaroslav (the Varangian) who was in power there at the time. Edward moved once again for some reason, this time south to Hungary, right around the time a king by the name of Andrew I of the "Arpad" line assumed the throne there. (Arpad was the leader of the original Magyar & Kabar tribes who settled Hungary a few generations earlier.)

Just prior to this Hungary had been ruled, badly, by Peter (Orseolo) "the Venitian" - he was descended on one side from Italians - and the pagan nobility finally threw him out and installed Andrew as king. I find it highly coincidental (not) that Edward just happened to move to Hungary right around the time Andrew came to power. [UPDATE: it was no coincidence, Edward the Exile and Andrew the Arpad were both living in Kiev together under the protection of Yaroslav "the Wise".] One other coincidence (not), Andrew married Yaroslav's daughter, Anastasia, further demonstrating a close connection between the Arpads of Hungary and the Varangian Rus of Kiev. (The royal Hungarian "Arpad" line, by the way, flows right back to Atilla the Hun. )

Here's where it gets interesting. Somewhere along the line Edward had two kids, Edgar the Atheling (heir apparent to the English throne) and Margaret. Margaret was probably born in Hungary, her mother being an Agatha of disputed identity. [UPDATE: I have come to side with the theory that Agatha was a sister of Yaroslov by his father Vladimir's a last wife Ragneda of Ohningen.]

Here is a little genealogy chart I whipped up, it should make all of this easier to follow.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8216/margarettreeyw6.jpg

When Margaret was probably around 10 or 12 they all picked up and moved back to England. When I say "all", I don't mean just Edward and his family, they brought half the royal house of Hungary with them! (This is why I think Margaret was connected to the Hungaria royal family somehow, which is satisfied by the Arpad connections to the Rus of Kiev.) ...This was at the invitation of Edward's uncle, Edward "the Confessor" who was on the throne by then (the successors of Canute gave it back to the Saxons with little or no fuss, oddly enough - almost makes you wonder if the ruling Saxon & Viking families back then weren't more like squabbling siblings than arch enemies?).

Anyway, in 1066 William the Norman and his troops stormed into England, defeated Harold at Hastings, took England over from the Saxons for good, and Agatha (Edward was dead by now) spirited Margaret off to Scotland (Hungarians in tow) where her daughter then married king Malcom III. Actually legend has it that they boarded a boat for Russia but the wind blew them to Scotland ... but that story sounds kinda like balony to me. If the story's true though, it'd turn out to be one heck of a history changing gust of wind.


St. Margaret of Scotland

In the Edward family entourage was George, the youngest son of king Andrew I of Hungary, along with George's son Maurice who was a small boy at the time, and a royal relation of Andrew known as Bartholomew Ladislaus. Bartholemew Ladislaus is a hard person to pin down, but I am certain he was part of the Hungarian royal family, not just because John agrees but because there were soon afterwards a whole string of Hungarian kings named Ladislaus. When I look at that name a whole bunch of things pop into my head. As I was checking into the family of Vlad the Impaler a while back I sometimes saw the name of certain Vlads written as "Vladislaus" ... here's Vladislaus II, king of Hungary and Bohemia (perhaps Bohemia and neighboring Moravia were post-heyday Merovingian country - as it has come to my attention?), and a knight in the Order of the Dragon that Sigismund started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladislaus_II_...mia_and_Hungary

(Continued from above)

John remarks that the first part of the name Ladislaus, "Ladis", most likely connects to Leta, the mother of Apollo, and by extension the Ladon dragon, the namesake of his book. In Greek mythology the Ladon dragon guarded a grove of golden apples (evoking the biblical serpent of Eden) which was slain by Herakles. Ladon is also a river in southern Italy, near a place called Laus on the western coast, and there you have the "laus" part of Ladis-laus. The phrase "Laus Deo", if you were aware, is written at the top of the Washington Monument where no one can see it. Some folks will tell you this means "Praise be to God" in Latin, but don't believe it for a second. This giant penis symbol in the middle of the US capital was built by Freemasons.

Wikipedia gives an explanation of Ladislaus which is a little different but is certainly compatible, whereby
"Ladislav ... is comprised of the name of the ancient Slavic goddess of love Lada and the Slavic word slava (worship, glory). The name means He who worships Lada or He who glorifies Lada and has pagan roots."

This Bartholemew Ladislaus, who accompanied Margaret to Scotland and in fact married Malcom III king of Scotland's sister Beatrix, is sometimes referred to as Bartholemew Ladislaus Leslie, and is in fact considered the patriarch of the entire Scottish Leslie clan. A little about the Leslie clan,


http://heraldry.celticradio.net/search.php...ranch=Abernethy

(Note the titles, "Earls of Ross", "Earls of Rothes".)

The other royal Hungarians in Margaret's entourage, George, king Andrew's son, and George's son Maurice, are the patriarchs of the entire Drummond clan in Scotland. Here's one of the Drummond estates.



There is a fair amount of Drummond blood in the royal Stewart family (most conspicuously from Annabella Drummond, the mother of James I Stewart king of England), but the Drummond name has also long been prominent in the British banking industry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drummonds_Bank

Turns out two partners in (of?) the Drummond firm were in charge of doling out money from the English treasury during the American Revolution to pay for Hessian troops, money that ultimately went into the coffers of Mayer Rothschild and helped finance his family's banking empire. This may have been no coincidence. I don't know if you're like me or not or have been wondering for ages how and why the Rothschilds so easily became the private bankers to the royal houses of Europe, but herein may lie part of the answer.
http://www.tribwatch.com/huns.htm

I have to tell you, for some time I did not realise that king Andrew's son, George, accompanied Margaret to England. This bit of information is a rare gem, and we would never have known had John not dug it up for us (below quote found in the above link):
"...(illegitimate) Gy嗷gy [George], who, according to Europaeische Stammtafeln, went to Scotland in 1055 and became ancestor of the Drummond family. E.S. cites a 1959 work published in Warsaw as the source for this. I know that it has long been asserted that the Drummond family was founded by a Hungarian [Maurice] who returned to Britain with Edward Atheling, so this may be true" (http://genealogy.euweb.cz/arpad/arpad1.html")

Why do we care about this king Andrew, much less his son George? All you need do is take a good look at the British flag, a union of the Scottish saltire Cross of St. Andrew and the Templar red Cross of St. George.




NOOoooooo !!!!!????


(Note: the above flag is the original Union Jack)

Could it be? Both symbols were adopted after Margaret and her Hungarian entourage arrived in Britain, a good hundred years or so after in fact, in both cases. The two were joined into the Union Jack under James I Stewart of England, who was also James VI of Scotland, under whom the two kingdoms were joined. This James was both a direct descendent of Margaret and the Drummond clan, both lines attributable to George and Andrew. Add to that that the spread of Rosicrucianism in Bohemia in the early 17th century has been pegged to the marraige between James' daughter Elizabeth (the Queen of Hearts) and Frederick V, Elector Palatine...


http://www.johnreilly.info/rocr.htm

What of the other Saint George, the one who slew the dragon? What of the biblical Saint Andrew, the disciple of John the Baptist and Jesus who formed clouds into the shape of a big X (saltire cross) in the sky above king Ungus while he fought the English? I have a hunch that the legends behind these two crosses were adopted to create cover stories, to disquise the truth while simultaneously waving it in our face, as these myths and legends so often do. But let's take a closer look.

Obviously the Andrew described in the bible predates this period by a thousand years, but Wikipedia states that he didn't come to be the patron saint of Scotland until the 10th century - predating the arrival of Margaret, but not by much. The legend of Saint George on the other hand was apparently brought back to England by the first crusaders, the earliest known written account of dragon-slaying George being an 11th century Georgian text. (Georgia!!???)

As for the red Cross of St. George, it was adopted initially by the Templars and later by England and the City of London in 1190 (more than a century after Margaret and her entourage landed in England). Wikipedia states that the Red Cross was first used on the flag of Genoa, which begs the question, where did they get it ? And why does it turn up in Genoa??? Genoa, as it turns out, is a province in the region of Liguria, and therein lies the answer to the riddle.

You may have noticed a slew of "L" terms. Liguria, Ladislaus, Leslie, Ladon, Leta, Laus, and don't forget the Lugii (both in Poland and Scotland), and Lydia. I was looking at a map recently and discovered that Mt. Ida, the center of Cybele worship I discussed earlier in this thread, is farther west than I had imagined ... it's practically in Lydia. Which is why my eyes almost popped out when I read that according to records in the British Library, St. George's mum (I'm talking about the early medieval dragon-slaying George's mother) was from a place in the Levant (Holy Land) called Lydda !!!! I haven't mentioned the Lusignans yet, a prominent crusader family of France, and there are yet other conspicuous "L" terms that follow the dragon around. There is more in common though between these places & peoples than just a first letter "L". [EDIT - need I mention 'Lilith'? Or, "Lullabye" (Lilith be gone)?]

The Stewart clan below with a crest containing blue and white checks is of course significant because the Stewarts decended from the royal Scottish line of Malcom III and Margaret mixed with the Drummonds. A connection to the Cohens might not be evident at first, but the family of Cohen is said to be that of the priest tribe of Levi (which may or may not be relevant) but more significantly, the name Cohen derives from Kagan, which meant king in Khazaria. Interestingly, the Kagan rulers of Khazaria also fulfilled a priestly role. Also note that while all of these other crests bear blue and white (silver) checks or bars, the Stewart line mixes blue and gold. In these heraldic comparisons (other factors being equal), gold generally signifies dominance over silver.



Ladon-Gog author John traces the blue and white bars and checks ultimately back to a royal princess of Byzantium named Melissena, and on back from there to Michael I Rangabe, a Holy Emperor of Byzantium of the 9th century. I mention this because if you follow my tree (look for the blue and white shield toward the top-right) from Rangabe, you see a marraige between Anna of Byzantium and Vladimir of Kiev. From here the line splits, to Anastasia and the whole Drummond clan through Yaroslav, and to the French Brusses through his sister Arlogia Vladimirova. This Brusse line merges with the Sinclair line (!), and then with the royal line of Malcom and Margaret ... that's when the Brusses become Scottish Brus, and we find yet another "Sinclair" I assume (Isabel de Clare), after which they become the Bruces everyone is familiar with (i.e. Robert the Bruce). The crest of the Scottish Bruces retain only a blue lion, but you can see above that the Brusses of France that preceded them used blue and white like crazy (with lions and some fleur-de-lis thrown in as well).

Two last little things. Does this, depicting the flag of the Arms of the Rangabe family, the anscestors of Melissena who I just mentioned, not remind you of the Templar Cross of Jeruslalem/flag of Georgia, but in a blue and white theme!???


If you scroll up and look above and behind the head of Queen Margaret in the stained-glass window image shown in the previous post, you will see a very similar white cross on a blue background.

Lastly, Melissena is most certainly depicted in the medieval legend of Melusine, a half sea-serpent mermaid ...



Half sea-serpent Melusine bumps into Raymond de Vere while he's BOAR hunting in the forests of Anjou and he marries her. And then you have that blue de Vere boar (and that green de Vere dragon). Unbelievable.


P.S., here's a link to the homepage of a luxury hotel overlooking the Danube in Budapest called the Saint George Residence
http://www.universehotels.se/hotel/75310-S...e-Budapest.html

And here's George himself slaying the dragon and bearing the red Templar cross on his shield. (Jpeg swiped from the above Hotel website. )

...bloody hell!....i don't know whats worse!?.... trying to get your head around a Michael Tsarion DVD!... or a Sanders post!?!...

...i remember Tsarion saying something like.... the Dragon represents the four elements!... the claws that grasp the EARTH... the scale`s on the flesh the WATER... the beat of its wings the WIND... its breath the FIRE!.... and these together represent the fifth element that for the life of me i cant remember what he said!?...

Hi CIA,

I think the alchymists called the 5th element air or aether IIRC. (Ironic that Quantum Mechanics now is finally requiring an ether too about 150 years later [but physicists like to cryptically call it "dark matter" so that no one knows WTF they mean] ).

Yeah, definitely, that's what these all represent




I wouldn't have been confident that the Skull and Crossbones should be included there among those other crosses, until I learned of the Chamber of Reflection rite of Freemasonry. Also, the four treasures of myth brought to Ireland by the Tuatha de Danaan more than 3 thousand years ago (probably connected to the 4 suits of the Tarot and hence our playing cards) probably fit in here too ...




And most definitely THIS !

THE FIFTH ELEMENT - final scene


The fifth-element here is a supreme being, supernatural and female, and her evil-destroying light-beam won't work until Bruce kisses her - union of male & female, god & mortal. Notice the Celtic Cross (circle and cross together - zodiac divisions, 5 elements, seasons etc. expressed in this symbol as described in the Zeitgeist film) formed by the light right at the climax of the film -



..................................................

"Order out of Chaos" concept explained - (and then debunked)

..."...the Dragon represents the two races of Atlantis, who contend for hegemony everywhere. They are the Twins of all mythologies, the two contending serpents of the Caduceus ( Ouroboros and Uraeus ) which devour each other in endless wars from the primordial ages down to the present day"

......Prof` Arysio Nunes Dos Santos.


...i just flicked through Atlantis Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation and found the part in Chapter 14 on disc 1... he says the reference to the claws, wings, scales and breath of the Dragon are a composite of the four states of consciousness and the four elements..... and that the Dragon itself is the fifth element!?!

...to add another Dragon curiosity!

...the Welsh Flag...



...and why would a website about Welsh Witchcraft carry a link to the Georgia Guidestones?

....Welsh Witchcraft


...Georgia Guidestones

Thanks CIA, an interesting link that and behind this one is more that some folk around here should read:

http://www.dynionmwyn.net/environ/environ2.html

You see anthropogenic climate change deniers there is more to it than you think.

The UN/IPCC is not telling you just how bad it could be.

PS. If mods want to move this post then I am cool with that but I had to drop it here for continuity.

[Disclaimer:

I wrote the posts in this thread (those under my name) as I embarked on a path of research, motivated purely by an intense curiosity, and I marked my discoveries along the way here in this thread. I was fascinated by the use of occult symbology in our media (and other clues), and the more I investigated the more I saw that the history, in fact "world-view" that we have all been told to accept is mostly balony. (I stand by that 100%.) However I concluded too fast that there was a linear connection between the self-annointed managers of our country (and, to a large and increasing degree, our planet) and an ancient "dragon" culture. And I have (somewhat mistakenly) described this culture as of a "conquering" nature in many of my posts. While I learned a great deal on my search for answers, and while the reader might find some of my posts interesting, I have discovered that my overriding view of the big picture was wrong.

The true dragons were a wise and just sub-race of Kings and Queens of antiquity, and they have been all but gone for a thousand years - exterminated by the Church and her clients, the long string of usurpers who traded loyalty to Rome in return for its (fraudulent) recognition of kinghood. The Templars were not dragons (I don't think), they were rather a military arm of the dragons, from whom they split and pursued their own interests. William the Conqueror may have had some dragon blood in him, but he was first a warrior and his loyalties lied with his own power-grab - he killed many true "dragons" (the elven Picts) during his brutal subjugation of the north of England - and, the descendents of his warrior co-usurpers from Normandy, "bully-boys" as they have been described, who comprised the moneyed-elite of America throughout much of its history, were no better despite their claims of blue-bloodedness. Far worse are the bankers, often the descendents of those Norman colonists, who have taken their place. None of these people who have caused so much anquish in pursuit of their own monetary gain throughout modern history are "true" dragons, though I suspect they cling to imagined thread-thin connections to those ancient families, while they have hijacked the symbology and 'religion' (for lack of a better word) of the ancient cults in pursuit of their own bloated vision of themselves as overlords of us "stupid sheep".

If you want to know about the true "dragon blood-line", don't bother with my drivel, read instead "The Dragon Legacy" or any other of the works of Nicholas de Vere.]





Because everything's connected !!!


The whole Arthurian legends come into play when you dig into the Welsh, or "Red" branch of the dragon-line. I haven't looked into it much yet.

My high weirdness buddy was over last night and we were looking at this thread, which sparked a conversation about the Georgia Guidestones. He pointed out that the man who commissioned the monument was named R C Christian - Rosicrucian.



Indeed Sanders, everything is connected.

Sanders, you GOTTA see the "Dark Ages" program on the US pHistory Channel right now (west coast).

Clovis, Constantine, Rome- the gang's all here!

http://www.history.com/marquee.do?marquee_id=53127

Thanx dMole, unfortunately, I'm a little farther west than the west coast (Japan). Looks great, I hope I get a chance to watch it. Ironically, I'm about to post something I've been working on that explores a pretty mind-blowing little detail about Charlemagne and the Frankish kings.

You're really missing out Sanders- right now it's "Barbarians: Huns" from 2004.

http://www.genreonline.net/Barbarians_History_Channel.html

That earlier "Dark Ages" program covered the Vikings extensively, and closed with a hint that the Knights were actually thugs paid by the Lords/Earls/Dukes to harass/imtimidate the serfs. I don't recall hearing that bit before (other than in a Crusades context against the Moslems).

EDIT: It just occurred to me that the word "hunting" likely derives from Hun.

Also, the pHistory Channel "Huns" were depicted riding with an owl? atop a fasces-like pole.

It was also interesting that the medieval church defined exactly who was or wasn't a "barbarian"- anyone who didn't tithe to the church...

DMole, I don't know if you caught it in the "Margaret" post, but Andrew and George (the Arpad line) traced back to Attila the Hun. Hey, as they say, nice guys finish last.


If that "Huns" episode was from 2004, maybe there's some of it up on Youtube - I'll check. Really want to watch that stuff. Thanx again for the tip

They ran 3 of those older History Channel "Barbarians" programs tonight: Huns, Goths, then Vikings.

It was interesting that the Goths were originally a peaceful agrarian culture, forced into the Roman Empire by Hun raids. After part of the Goths joined the Roman Empire, they were allegedly promised food and land (but this was never delivered, and the Goths were starved for about 3 years).

Then there was a Goth revolt (the part that the Goths were known for).

The Viking one had several historical inaccuracies (from my research), but was pretty good overall.

Well, Rosicrucianism was allegedly founded in the 14th century by a guy named Christian Rosenkranz. But these are just made-up names. They do this to hide the truth while flaunting it in our face. Regarding my above double-post about princess Margaret, why did they honor the Hungarians Andrew and George by naming the crosses of Scotland and England after them, then cover it up by attaching the made-up stories of St. George and St. Andrew? If they didn't want us to know that the kings and queens of Scotland & England were connected (through Hungary) to the Magyars, Kabars and Varangian Rus of the East, then why didn't they just keep it quiet, why did they "advertise it" on the flags of the two countries? Because they can't help themselves!

I posted in a different thread about the Georgian flag/Templar Cross of Jerusalem, and spoke about the pagan origins of the use of 4 small crosses in the quadrants between the arms of a larger (superior) cross. This is a perfect example of a pagan concept being passed off under the auspices of a supposedly Christian symbol. Heck, they might as well have just put the four playing card suits in there, those evolved from the four treasures of the the Tuatha de Danaan (by way of the Tarot), which correllate/merged with the four elements or four winds, which the four small crosses of the Templar/Georgian flag represent, lol.



I meant to discuss all that business here in this thread, but I'll just post a link to it instead ...
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10749906

Obviously, they love to flaunt this stuff ... all in plain view. I just realised that the mermaid with two tails on the Starbucks logo is Melissena, the Byzantine princess who was the matriarch of the Bruce clan and who's lineage figured prominantly in the noble families of Europe and Scotland (and by extension England). She is depicted in medieval legend as Melusine, a half sea-serpent who captures the heart of Raymond, either de Lusignan or de Vere (depending on the version) - and made it onto the Starbucks logo. But the logo's been changed ... Were too many people curious and her likeness was too close for comfort - so the logo was made more subtle, where you can't tell right off that those are her two tails that she is grasping in her hands? Or maybe I'm over-thinking it - maybe the original was just too erotic? Either way, that's Melusine.



They place a giant Egyptian penis symbol in the middle of Washington DC, they build a big ugly glass pyramid in the center of the Louvre. They glorify their ancestors in legends and tell and re-tell Greek myths about their roots in countless guises. These stories fill our books and movies - but never is it revealed what they are really about. The stories are always clothed in allegory, even our history is sanitized, the key connections (that would otherwise make the history of the world really interesting) safely dedacted, lest we know what "they" know.

You could write a whole book about the meanings hidden in the stories told to our children by Walt Disney, long held to be a major Illumanist. Did you know that the plays of Shakespeare, great as they are, were most likely written by Rosicrucians? William Shakespeare, the actor, could barely write his own name, much less Hamlet. It's sometimes said that all of the decent plots can be traced back to Shakespeare. Well, those stories were probably written by Rosicrucians, possibly by a small group of them led by Francis Bacon, or, as per a competing version, by Edward de Vere (!!!!), who may not even have been a de Vere at all, but a bastard child of Queen Elizabeth's brought up in the de Vere house. Who knows, the point is, the author of the Shakespere plays was a highly educated member of the "dragon" elite, and the stories are loosely based on real events.

Do you think Madonna knows what Kabbalah mysticism is really all about, do you think she knows that Chaldean Kabbalah birthed the orgastic sacrifice-ritual practicing cult of Cybelle, with their Galli priests who manifested the union of male and female through castration? Heavens no!!! Considering the royalty of the entertainment industry who she rubs shoulders with, who constantly inject the symbols and stories of the ancient elite (along with all of the other subtle propoganda) into our culture, is it by pure coincidence that she got into Kabbalah mysticism? I'd bet no. And now that I think about it, who's idea was it to call her "Madonna" in the first place, really???

And who is "they", by the way? Is it a massive multi-tiered organization that "Svali" who I mentioned in the first post in this thread describes, referred to by some as the "illuminati"? I don't know, I suspect that that nomenclature continues to be propogated in order to confuse and conceal. But, and maybe I am crazy, whoever they are they sure seem to leave a trail, flooding our culture with symbols and stories that appear to all "fit", once you start to identify the roots of the so-called ruling elite.

I wanted to post something, I almost did a couple of times, I wrote it up and trashed it, wrote it up again and trashed it again. The problem is, it involves some supposition and touches on religion. "Touches" might be the wrong word ... "turns on its head" might be more accurate. However, what I want to dive into constitutes a big piece of this puzzle IMO and I think I should attempt to cover it.

CIA posted something a few posts back that caught my eye...


I can't speak to Atlantis, all I know about it is the Greeks spoke of it and people have been looking for it and arguing if it ever existed ever since. But the bit about "two contending serpents" piqued my interest, because I am slowly catching on that there were TWO major and distinct branches to the dragon blood-line.

The first is the "Gogi" branch. "Gogi" is a term used by Ladon-Gog author John, referring to Black Sea region peoples, often represented in Greek myths via connection with the twins Apollo and Artemis. Most of these peoples passed through or inhabited the Caucasus at one time or another, and include the Vikings, Scythian peoples, the Picts, the Goths, and related Saxons and Franks. (I tried to trace the migrations of some of these peoples earlier in the thread.) This branch can be thought of as representing a "Rus" element in the "rose-line".

The second branch undoubtedly connects to the first at their common root, probably in ancient Mesopotamia, but passes through Egypt. From there it splits, one branch going north to Greece and two others doubling back to the Levant (basically). Danaus of Greek legend (also mentioned in historical records) represents peoples that migrated from Egypt to Rhodes (an island off of the southwestern shore of Anatolia near Greece), providing a "Rhodian" element in the concept of the "rose-line". From Rhodes these people migrated to Greece proper. Danaus' mythical cousin, Cadmus, along with Cadmus' brother Phoenix, represent another migration from Egypt to Phoenicia. Cadmus moves again, this time to Greece where he slays the dragon of Ares and founds Thebes, he and his wife Harmonia then turn into dragons themselves, representing the rebirth of the dragon-line in Greece via Phoenicia. Remember that Cadmus plants the dragon's teeth in the ground, which grow into the Spartans, and note also that another city called Thebes was the capital of Egypt in the 11th and 15th dynasties. Thebes of Greece was so named by people from Egypt as assuredly as the people who settled New Amsterdam (later New York) were Dutch.

There was one more migration out of Egypt, by a peoples also rooted in ancient Mesopotamia (Sumer), who settled in the Levant south of Phoenicia ... the Israelites. Even the bible confirms the general shape of this tree I am describing, with it's naming of the sons of Noah and their descendents. I won't speculate on whether the Hyksos kings of Egypt were proto-Israelites, but I will go along with the idea that the Habiru of Egypt were Hebrews, and that the Hyksos might have been connected to them. The term Hebrew however, does not mean someone is Jewish, or even descended from Abraham (as all Arabs believe themselves to be, by Hagar, Abraham's wife's handmaiden). If one places stock in the accounts of the bible (which, not unlike the Greek myths, were about real events I believe, written to great extent in code, partly to conceal certain realities and partly as protection in a politically charged world ... but nonetheless providing a useful tool), Hebrew derives from Eber, and he and his descendents are correctly referred to by that name. Eber was a biblical great-great-(etc.) grandfather of Abraham many generations up the tree, who must have had many descendents. In other words, there were lots of Hebrews out there who had nothing to do with Abraham, nor the Israelites for that matter (strictly speaking). Funny how meanings get mistakenly linked to certain words, funny how things get all mixed up.

I find it interesting that speaking out against Zionism will get you branded an "anti-semite". Semitic means one is descended from Shem, son of Noah, as the Arabs and by extention Palestinians are alleged to be. Alternately, it is believed that the vast majority of European Jews are descended from the kingdom of Khazaria. (Excuse me for not speaking in absolutes.) - One assumes that the Khazars (previously Scythia) were "Gogi" peoples, i.e. (as per the biblical way of looking at it) descended from Shem's brother Japheth. (Maybe anti-Zionist talkers should be branded anti-Japhites? Nawh, that wouldn't work, practically ALL of the Anglo-American-European population is mostly Japhetic. I jest, but a closer examination of where we all really came from would do the world a lot of good IMO.)

This "Khazar" business, kept relatively quiet until the present age of the internet, is why some people go on and on about how the Jews of Europe (excepting Sephardic Jews from Spain) have no justifiable claim to the land of Israel ... because they aren't descended from any of those people.

But there's a catch.

Jo56 posted an article recently in another thread about the Khazars. I felt it was a good article (the writer might have a bit of an agenda, but seems to know his history IMO and I found it refreshing). But there's a key point about the Khazars that everyone seems to leave out, which I want to add for the record. The "lost tribes" were probably not lost at all, many of them probably wound up in Khazaria ... first carted off by the Assyrians into northern Mesopotamia, and then driven north by the constant fighting in the area as Assyrians, Medians, Babylonians, Persians and finally Parthians vied for dominance. There's no where else to go but through the Caucasus into Scythia (later Khazaria) - we're talking about maybe millions of exiled Israelites here, and this might help explain why the kingdom of Khazaria converted "en-masse" to Judaeism (8th-9th centuries). A few of the oldest Jewish communities in the world are located in the Caucasus. Furthermore, I can only think of two possible reasons why the rivers flowing into the Black Sea might all have been renamed with Din-Dan-Don names. Either the Gogi peoples in the area imported the term from Sumer (I showed that "Dan" in Sumerian was equivalent to Bel/Beru/Baal in Akkadian & Phoenician early in the thread), or, the Tribe of Dan, who apparently had no compunction about naming things after themselves (city of Dan) had something to do with it. The Danaus of Greece couldn't have named those rivers, they never went anywhere near there (to my knowlege).

...Of course what has been and is still being done to the Palestinians is an unadulterated crime against humanity, and I think the descendents of the Israelites have about as much right to take over Palestine as the Spanish have to go and invade western Georgia (which was the kingdom of Iberia in biblical times). But those that assume that because Ashkenazi Jews descend from Khazars they are defacto unconnected to Israel are missing part of the story. Food for thought.

Getting back to the two branches, I made a map. This is not meant to be definitive, only as a guide to help follow this. The Phoenicia -> Greece migration was by sea, the Egypt -> Israel migration (the Exodus) ostensibly by land.



Note where Chaldea is. Chaldea was the birthplace of Kabbalah mysticism, which we find popping up along both Gogi and Egyptian branches. (Along the Egyptian branch you find major centers of Kabbalah teaching in Alexandria and Carthage, along the Gogi branch you find the cult of Cybelle (Kybele), which John has connected to Kabbalah and which spread from Colchis and Phrygia to Greece proper ... the island of Samothrace was also a stomping-ground of this cult.)

Some mixing of peoples of the two major branches should be pointed out. The alleged migration north by the "lost" tribes of Israel into Scythia/Khazaria discussed above would constitute one such merging of the branches. The Milesian migration to Spain and then Scotland would constitute another, as the royal Scythian Mil married Scota. Whether a historical or mythical figure, Scota was an Egyptian princess, and since we know additionally that there was a city in Israel called Scythopolis I think I can safely say the Milesians represented a merging of the Gogi and Egyptian lines. (Don't think too much about the details, or your head might explode, as mine seems about to.)

There is another place where the two branches came into close proximity, Armenia. At it's height, the Armenian kingdom stretched from the southern Caucasus all the way down to the edge of Phoenicia. Do you see a similarity between these terms, Hermes, Armenia, Mt. Hermon (in Phoenicia), Harmonia? Ladon-Gog author John believes there is a Hermes/Armenia connection, and I find it interesting that the name of the wife of Cadmus, the mythical founder of Phoenicia and Greece, was Harmonia, who's name came to represent peaceful co-existence, i.e. Harmony.

I think I know in a general way what happened to the Gogi branch, it stayed in the area of the Black Sea for many centuries, weaving in and around Greece for a bit, branched northward into Russia, sailed ships for Spain and Scotland, populated Northern Europe and Scandinavia, and finally overwhelmed the Roman Empire. I believe the Tuatha de Danaan who invaded Ireland 3 to 4 thousand years ago must have been of the Egyptian branch due to the 'Dan' element in their name and their alleged Aegean (near-Greece) roots. I couldn't tell you what became of the Egyptian line after the decline of the Greek empire (I have my suspicions but nothing solid), but I am beginning to think that the Trojan War was essentially a war between the Gogi and Egyptian branches of the dragon blood-line. Outlandish as it might seem at first, this idea has helped me keep things straight in my head, and it makes perfect sense to me at the moment. (I may change my mind of course.)

The next place we find a merging of the branches, or I should say, an alleged merging of the branches, is with the Merovingian kings. Here comes the blasphemous part.

When I say blasphemous, I'm not talking about the idea that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married, as is the premise of Holy Blood Holy Grail. But that's part of it. The movie Zeitgeist promotes the view that the historical figure of Jesus never existed, but as the religion-related part of that movie plays sort of fast and loose with its facts (Horus-Christ story correllations mostly made-up or exaggerated), I propose entertaining that there was a Jesus. I'm not religious mind you, nor am I addressing nor discounting Christ as embraced in the Christian religion. I'm referring simply to a king of Israel of the Davidic line.

I don't know if you could call the piece below an article or just a post, but it's quite amazing. The "water into wine" miracle may simply have been Jesus breaking the rules and serving wine to commoners at his betrothal feast (wine at these ceremonies was reserved for priests and celibate Jews).

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fe...l?msg_id=0014xY



The full article details carefully how various events in the bible and their timing correllate with the strict marraige protocol of a messianic king and his betrothed... and why one can conclude that Mary and Jesus were not only married, but that she was pregnant at the time of the Crucifiction.

Believe what you like, the important thing is that the Merovingians were keen to advertise a blood connection to the Davidic line of kings through Mary Magdalene, and that the Cathars and Templars after them propagated this legend. The Templars in fact built Gothic Churches of unrivaled size and beauty (Notre Dame - "Our Lady" - being the most famous) all around France in honor of Mary Magdalene and even claimed to possess her bones.

(Continued below...)