Posted by: Sinewy Jul 31 2006, 09:58 PM
[quote] If Allah is the God of the Bible, why is he never called by these names? [/quote]
The Christians in Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Jordan refer God as Allah. The name Allah is sufficient for them. The God in Islam has 99 Names and Attributes which have never been seen in the Bible, all 99 of them. Show me them. Should that insinuate that God in Judaism and Christianity lacks qualities of being a God?? God in Islam is the same God in Judaism and Christianity.
Side Note to start off: Please don't play the semantic games and fail miserably like others in confrontational debates (Read the works of Abu Bakr al Baqillani, a medieval Islamic scholar and was seen as a genius, particularily as the `ilm al kalam was at a heightened position at that time in history). Every well researched and scholarly Muslim I know, knows many orientalists including Tisdall and Muir. This conspicuous methodology will only work on the novice or ignorant. True Christians and true lovers of Christ, as I have many friends of, are never like this.
[quote]The God of the Bible tells us again and again that He is the God of the Jews. Many times He is called "the God of Israel." Yet there is such hatred for Israel among Muslims! [/quote]
By your logic, from the Old Testament, He is not God of you either, since you are a Christian. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, and Muhammad was sent to the whole mankind according to theologists. Therefore, it would make sense from this perspective as the latter two confirm the previous messages and teachings. Furthermore, you are are sheerly playing polemics. Jews were the chosen people as stated in the Qur'an. Jews had broken their covenant and killed many of the prophets and messengers God sent according to Islam. Now if you have any knowledge of Asbab ul Nuzul or `ilm al Qur'an, then the verses you implicity summarized and speak of are evidently and known to be taken out of context. Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, gave freedom of rights to Christians and Jews under Muslim rule. They payed the Jizyah tax to the Islamic government and all their rights and property protected. As well, and more importantly, the Jews and Christians,"dhimmis", were absolved from participating in any war. This was not the case in Christianity and Judaism because such principles were unheard of along with being intolerable. Impossible. I have excluded of quoting many verses from the Qur'an which call for good relations with Christians and Jews along with God rewarding Christian and Jews and people of other faiths. If anyone wants them, tell me so. More importantly, through hadith literature, there are reports to substantiate this. More notably is the case with Spain. Under Ummayad and Abbasid rule (both Muslim dynasties), the Christians were allowed to enter scholarly universities and were boarded in lodges at the sole COST of the Muslim state. Now compare this with the Inquisition. No Muslim was left ALIVE! There was no mercy on the Jews either by the Christian crusaders. Jews fled to other Muslim empires for safety, particularily Turkey and Morocco. I haven't even referenced anything from Caliph Omar's time, Saladin's time, or in the Ottoman period. During these periods, there are more examples of how the principles of Islam justified tolerance towards other religions.
[quote]The Koran talks about Abraham and Ishmael, even claims they built the Ka'aba, but gives Isaac no prominence. The Bible mentions Isaac favorably and prominently more than 150 times. God very clearly says that His covenant is with Isaac, not with Ishmael (Gn 17:19-21), from whom the Arabs claim they are descended. [/quote]
First, do you want me to quote verses from the Bible to show God stating that He would bless Ishmael and make him a great nation, like you did with Isaac? This claim is wrong about how Islam views Isaac. Isaac is given prominence in the Qur'an, as he is given the honorary title of being a prophet of God. The Qur'an mandates that Muslims should not make any distinctions between prophets and messengers. But the Jews here are biased in favoring Isaac over Ishmael particularily knowing that the `Arabs come from Ishmael. In Islam, all prophets should be loved, revered, and admired. It happened to be that Ishmael and Abraham built the Kab'ah. Ishmael and Abraham are the forefathers of `Arabs. History can't change this. Muhammad descended from Abraham via Ishmael. Ishmael was an "`Arabized" `Arab. He learned the language of the region (Arabian peninsula). That is why there are many ancient tribes of `Arabs where all `Arabs trace their lineage from. Ishmael was an `Arabized `Arab, and his tribe is referred to as the Adnani tribe. This is the tribe which Muhammad descents from. Indigenous `Arabs there in the Arabian peninsula came from other tribes, and particularily, the Qahtani tribe.
[quote]The God of the Bible calls the Jews His chosen people. He loves them and gave the land of Israel to them as an heritage forever, as hundreds of verses in the Bible declare. Islam denies this basic biblical truth. The Jews are certainly not Allah's chosen people! How can Allah be the God of the Bible, yet not choose the Jews? [/quote]
The Jews were the chosen people as mentioned in the Qur'an. They lost that position due to them abandoning their covenant with God and massacring God's prophets. Read the Qur'an please. You are copying and pasting tactic is apparently from anti-islamic sites. Don't pose this front of having any knowledge on Islam.
In the Koran, as you must know, Allah commands Muslims, "Take not the Jews and Christians as friends" (Surah 5:51, Al Hil-ali, v. 54, Jusuf ali), so Allah is not the God of the Christians either. [/quote]
See this is what I mean by copying and pasting. Plus that is a famous verse Christian missionaries employ in a vain attempt I believe. Those verses are the reminders of historical significance. Muhammad was betrayed by many Jews and Christians. This verse was revealed in the city and outskirts of Madinah. Madinah was a city inhabited by Jews, Christians, newly converted Muslims, and hypocritesYou have to take note of the context, the asbab ul nuzul (reasons for being revealed), and whether it is a Madini/Makki verse. This is a Madinah revealed verse (For an indepth analysis, go to the Sirah, Biography of the Prophet Muhammad. The famous one is Ibn Ishaq's. It was revised by Ibn Hisham. This biography can be found in English. It is translated in beautiful and eloquent english by Martin Lings. The title is "Muhammad", by Martin Lings. Amazon or bookstores should have it). Those verses are to be seen in conjunction with these verses:
God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just. (Quran 60:8)
God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. (Quran 60:9)
O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye God, if ye have faith (indeed). (Quran 5:57)
[quote]In the hadith, Muhammad himself said, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them" (Mishkat al Masabih Sh. M. Ashraf, 1990, pp. 147, 721, 810-11, 1130, etc.). Islam's god hates the Jews; the God of the Bible loves them as His chosen people! Allah is very clearly not Jehovah, Elohim, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the God of the Bible! [/quote]
The last verse that I quoted is in the same chapter usediscernment quoted, but deceivingly left out the remainder of verses that followed chapter 5 of the Qur'an. Why? It is apparent as verse 57 of Chapter 5 makes note of. Muslims are allowed to befriend Christians and Jews, and atheists and others of different faiths according to the verse. Scripture signifies People of the Book (Another name for Jews and Christians due to them receiving revelations). Anyone who sees hostility towards them would not take that person as a friend. That is the logic in the verse.
Furthermore, the Qur'an states the following regarding Jews and Christians:
Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)
We all know that people of Moses in this verse are Jews.
Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (Quran 5:47)
Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (Quran 3:113-114)
And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God: They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (Quran 3:199)
"Those who believe, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabeans, any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, no shall they grieve" (2: 62).
The God of the Bible chose Jerusalem as His holy city. Forty times He calls Jerusalem "the city of David" and repeatedly He promises that the Messiah will be descended from David and will rule on David's throne in Jerusalem over the whole world (2 Chr 6:6; 33:7; 2 Sm 7:16; Ps 89:3-29, etc.). Never does the Bible (or the God of the Bible) mention Mecca or Medina, but Jerusalem is mentioned more than 800 times. Yet Allah never mentions Jerusalem. How can this be if Allah is the God of the Bible? And how can the Muslims today claim Jerusalem as a holy city of Islam, when it isn't even mentioned in the Koran? That recent claim comes from those who want to take that city from the Jews. [/quote]
The Qur'an like the Bible mention Bakkah, Bakka, or Baca. Bakkah was another name implied for Makkah. This is what the Qur'an states:
Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-'Alamin (the mankind and jinns). In it are manifest signs (for example), the Maqam (place) of Ibrahim (Abraham); whosoever enters it, he attains security. And Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) to the House (Ka'bah) is a duty that mankind owes to Allah, those who can afford the expenses (for one's conveyance, provision and residence); and whoever disbelieves [i.e. denies Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah), then he is a disbeliever of Allah], then Allah stands not in need of any of the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns). [Qur'ân 3:96-97
In the Bible:
Psalms 84 (NIV):1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty! 2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. 3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you. 5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. 6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.
8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty; listen to me, O God of Jacob.
9 Look upon our shield, O God; look with favor on your anointed one.
10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless.
12 O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you.
What is highlighted in bold falls in line with Hajar, Abraham's wife who was weeping and pleading with God due to her being left alone with Ishmael. God answered her prayers with the well of Zam-Zam.
Jerusalem is given significance in the Qur'an, particularily in terms of changing direction of face when praying, and significantly accounting for the Israa (night journey) of Muhammad from Makkah to Jerusalem: Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless (Surah Isra, verse 1).
The Mi`raj (ascent) took place from there to the heavens according to Islam. Jerusalem is the 3rd holiest city in Islam, and was the first Qiblah (direction of prayer).
[quote] That Allah has no son is further proof that He is not the God of the Bible, who definitely has a Son, as both the Old and New Testaments declare. Psalms 2 says, "Kiss the Son." Referring to the God of the Bible, Solomon says, "What is his son's name...?" (Prv 30:4). [/quote]
You are claiming proof of something which is irrelevant in the Muslims' minds. They hold the Bible to be tampered with. A lot of orientalists and atheists as well hold the same belief. More of your vain attempts. Islam wins in terms of authenticity of material passed down through generations and wins the tamper- free contest. The Qur'an has been preserved both in written form and in the mind since the time of Muhammad. The `ilm al hadith wa `ilm al rijal systems are incomparable. No other RELIGION on the face of the EARTH has devised such a scrupulous and critical analysis of religious traditions. Christianity can never make such a claim and wouldn't even dare so. That is why both the Old Testament and New Testament can't be tamper-free. The logical deduction should come to mind: Should you then believe something which has been preserved and been in its natural state due to having the above system of critical analysis, or something which has been passed down by no devised system of integral analysis?
[quote]The angel Gabriel, whom Islam claims to honor, told the virgin Mary (Islam accepts the virgin birth of Jesus), "And, behold, thou shalt...bring forth a son, and shalt call his name jesus. He shall be...called the Son of the Highest ...the Son of God...and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David..." (Lk 1:31-35). That throne is in Jerusalem, not in Mecca. [/quote]
Yes, Muslims' believe in the virgin birth, in the miracles of Jesus, but don't elevate his status nor Muhammad's status to God or sonship. Muslims` win this logical point. Sujectively analyzing the Bible and referencing it only helps alleviate your mind and insecurities and fear you have regarding Islam.
[quote] Muslims insist that the name "Allah" must be used in every language; it cannot be translated Dios in Spanish, Dieu in French, or God in English. Muslims thus treat "Allah" not as a generic word for God, but as the name of a particular god. In fact, Allah was the god of the Kuraish tribe centuries before Muhammad was born. You deny that he was the chief god in the Ka'aba, but you admit there were for centuries 360 idols in the Ka'aba and one of these was called Allah. [/quote]
Where do Muslims insist that Allah should be used in every language? This is your generalized assumption and another deceptive tactic. Each language, and the languages I speak of (English, `Arabic, French, Pashtu, Farsi,) have another name for God besides the `Arabic one (Allah):
Farsi-Khudawand, Parwardeegar, Khuda (Edited by e-dog: You actually say "goda")
`Arabic - Allah, Allah azza wa jal, Allah Ta`ala, etc....
Allah was the `Arabic term for God, the creator. The Quraish never had an idol named Allah. Please don't be so deceptive. Again, either you are a pathological liar, or you are intimidated by Islam. I assume both, and the latter is quite evident of your numerous post. Al-Uzza, Mana, and Al-Lat were the chief handmade dieties of the polytheist `Arabs before the advent of Islam.
What is Allah doing in a temple among 360 idols if he is the God of the Bible, who forbids idolatry? Why does Islam keep this idol temple, and why must Muslims to this day make a pilgrimage there? That Allah was the chief idol in the Ka'aba is documented history. [/quote]
Documented in history? Allah was never a diety in the Kab'ah. Nice polemical absurdness. Muhammad destroyed the 360 idols in his advent and conquest of Makkah (a peaceful one). This is documented history. Look to Ibn Ishaq's Sira Rasullulah and Martin Lings' translation of it. The Kab'ah is revered because it was the House of God which Abraham and his son Ishmael built to honor God.
If you further want to pursue this matter, then what will you tell the `Arab Christians of today who still refer God as Allah:http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sou...h/BibAllah.html
[quote] Let me quote one of the greatest historians:
The desert Arab...feared and worshiped incalculable deities in stars and moons. ...Now and then he offered human sacrifice; and here and there he worshiped sacred stones. The center of this stone worship was Mecca [with] the Ka'aba and its sacred Black Stone...in its southeast corner, five feet from the ground, just right for kissing.... [/quote]
The polytheist `Arabs knew that the House of Kab'ah was built by Abraham themselves. One of the reasons why they trace their lineage to him. They added a polytheistic nature to it.
[quote] The Quraish [Muhammad's tribe controlling Mecca] paved the way for monotheism by worshiping Allah as chief god; He was presented to the Meccans as the Lord of their soil, to Whom they must pay a tithe of their crops and the first-born of their herds. The Quraish, as alleged descendants of Abraham and Ishmael, appointed the priests and guardians of the shrine and managed its revenues (Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization," IV: 160-61). [/quote]
The Meccans and the Quraish were polytheists. They drove Muhammad and his followers out of Mecca because Islam chastized them and their gods. How were the Meccans monotheists? If they were, then there was no reason to drive Muhammad out of Mecca. The Meccans and Quraish tried to persuade Muhamamd to abandon his religion. They even bribed him, making him leader of the Quraish and Mecca. Muhammad's message was to worship God who is unseen and hidden (one of God's attributes, al Baatin) only.
[quote]The Ka'aba still stands, without its idols, but with the Black Stone. The pilgrimage to the Ka'aba, to...kiss the sacred stone, to run between Safa and Marwa, and to climb Mount Arafa, was practiced by pious pagan Arabs for centuries before Muhammad. Why did your prophet keep, as part of Islam, these pagan rituals? [/quote]
The Black stone is believed to have come from the heavens (space), as a meteorite perhaps, by the Muslims. Running between Safa and Marwa is done in commeration of Hajar, Abraham's wife, of finding nourishment and water for her son Ishmael. Later, God answers her prayers. Full narratives can be found in hadith literature. This action is legislated in the Qur'an:
Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of God. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times should compass them round, it is no sin in them. Surah 2.158
Since the House of God, Kab'ah is known by Muslims and pre-Islamic `Arabs known to have been built by Abraham and Ishmael, so is their rituals. If Muhammad copied polytheistic rituals, he and his followers would have been chastized for doing so by the polytheist Meccans when the Muslims performed the Hajj after the treaty of Hudaibiyah was in effect. Note: Mecca was under control of the polytheists at this time. No pagan Meccans are documented to have been upset at him in imitating their rituals. It gives more credence that these rituals originated with Abraham, Ishmael, and Hagar.
Speaking of Paganism and religions, I leave you with a quote from Gibbon's History of Christianity:
"If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians . . . was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief."
[quote]You say "Islam is the religion of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus...." Do you think Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, et al. journeyed to the idol temple, the Ka'aba, and kissed its Black Stone? [/quote]
No Muslim says the above mentioned people's religion were Islam. Islam specifies that all those prophets are Muslims (one who submits themselves to God). Nice try.
[quote]Impossible! Not one follower of the God of the Bible would ever have gone near the Ka'aba, because the God of the Bible forbids any association with idols; and you admit (as history tells us) that the Ka'aba was filled with idols before Muhammad destroyed them all. In history and the Bible, you will find no mention of Islam or any religion like it. How could you have Islam without the Koran and Muhammad? [/quote]
How about the above mentioned Baca reference? Do you want me to get real "polemical"? There are prophecies held by Muslims talking about the advent of Islam and Muhammad in the Bible.
[quote]Muhammad started a new religion called Islam to which Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Turks and everyone else in the region had to convert at the point of the sword. They became Muslims, and there is no way you can say that Islam was the original religion of that or any other region. [/quote]
How about this quote: "History makes it clear that the legend of fantatical Muslims sweeping and forcing Islam over others is the most absurd myth"?- De Lacy O'Leary, Islam at the Crossroads, London, 1923, p.8.
The principle taken from the verse still stands in Islam: There is no compulsion in religion (2: 256). Do you know any juristic priniciples outlined in Islam with regards to non-Muslims? For example, how are dhimmis treated? There is no outlined legislation which tolerates non-Christians from the Bible and its sources, other than what history has shown and continues to show: KILL THE INFIDELS (MUSLIMS).
How did Christianity spread throughout history? It spread by force in my opinion.
[quote]I've been asked to explain, "The God of the Bible is love, an impossibility for Allah." If Allah is a single being, as Muslims insist, then he cannot be love in and of himself, because he had no one to love until he created others; but the God of the Bible is love in and of Himself because He is three Persons but One God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit loved and communed with one another before men or angels were created. [/quote]
I don't blame the atheists (former Christians). I would have left Christianity if I was a Christian and believed in such logic.
[quote] then why does the Bible refer to Him more than 2,500 times with the plural Elohim (gods)? Interestingly, however, always with the plural noun there is a singular verb. One cannot escape the plurality combined with singularity repeatedly used.[/quote]
You just refuted yourself. No need for me.
[quote]The Bible teaches that God's very essence is love and says, "God is love" (1 Jn 4:8). This is not true of Allah. The Bible repeatedly speaks of God's love for man and the love we must have for Him. But love is scarcely mentioned in the Koran. Not once is "love" listed in the index of the popular Marmaduke Pickthall translation of the Koran. Of Allah's 99 attributes, love is not one. The Koran does say that Allah loves "the beneficent" (Surah 2:195), "the stedfast [and] those whose deeds are good" (Surah 3:146-48), and "those who battle for his cause" (Surah 61:4). But never does it say he loves all mankind, much less sinners; but the God of the Bible loves sinners, even those who hate Him. Allah is said to be merciful, but he does not show mercy to those who need it. The God of the Bible, however, is merciful to all, ready to forgive confessed sin. [/quote]
What about the above references in the Qur'an with regards to the Jews and Christians? What do you make of the attribute/name Ar-Rahman (The Compassionate), Ar -Rahim (The Merciful), Ar-Ra`uf (The most Kind), etc. All are manifestations of love. You like to play semantics. I can quote many references in the Qur'an to validate God's love, but this will do. To translate from `Arabic into English, the Qur'an states:
Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against your souls! Despair not of the grace of God, for God forgives sins, all of them, for He is much forgiving, most merciful." (39:53)
[quote] The first of the Ten Commandments is that we are to love the God of the Bible with our whole heart; but never does the Koran say a Muslim is to love Allah. You cannot love Allah, because he is unknowable. [/quote]
God's attributes make him known. His legislation, his mandates in the Qur'an make him known to Muslims. The Qur'an at times uses rhetorical arguments to contemplate on creation. In Islam, God is self-sufficient. Islam views God as free of wants and needs, whilst Christianity is the exact opposite. Jesus depicted as God and dying for our sins exemplify this. Bringing an anthropomorphic nature to God is not a necessity to have faith in him.
The God of the Bible can be known and repeatedly calls upon men to know Him; but the Koran says no one can know Allah because he is too great. [/quote]
God is known in Islam. The Qur'an shows God calling the believers to call upon Him for help. This is mentioned throughout the Qur'an. Also, God's attributes in Islam speak for themselves. If the nature and entity of God is known, then this would like the previous religions bring anthropomorphic interpretations of God. Hence, that is why God is so sublime, and hence "Like none unto Him" (Surah 112). No one has seen with their eyes this "perception" of God. One of the very logical points the atheists and skeptics make.
[quote]In spite of being infinite, without beginning and end, and the Creator of the universe, the biblical God reveals himself so that men can know Him. Jesus himself said, "This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (Jn 17:3). Those who don't know the God of the Bible are lost eternally. No one knows Allah [/quote]
Muslims as well believe that God is infinite. What you mentioned above is what Muslims believe. Muslims and Arab Christians know Allah. No need to continue.
[quote] Bible is filled with prophecies of the coming of Messiah Jesus, but there is not one such prophecy in the Koran for Jesus or Muhammad. [/quote]
Read Surah (Chapter) Maryam (Mother of Jesus) in the Qur'an. It mentions the coming of Jesus. The coming of Muhammad is prophesized by Jesus in the Qur'an:
"And when Jesus son of Mary said, 'Children of Israel, I am indeed the Messenger to you, confirming the Torah that is before me, and giving good tidings of a Messenger who shall come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad" (61:6).
[quote]In fact, the Koran was written after Muhammad came, so it could not prophesy. [/quote]
The Qur'an was memorized and written down in Muhammad's time. In fact, the Gospels were written nearly a couple centuries after Jesus's time. Possible manipulations could have occurred in that span of time. Christianity unlike Islam does not have a scrupulous system of validating or invalidating texts in terms of authenticity and integrity.
[quote]but the Old Testament prophesied the coming of Jesus centuries and even thousands of years beforehand. The Jewish prophets in the Old Testament said the Messiah would be crucified and rise from the dead the third day. Jesus came at exactly the time prophesied and died for the sins of the world, as the Bible says over and over. But the Koran contradicts this and says He didn't die on the cross at all, much less for our sins. The Bible says that the penalty for sin must be paid and that God himself had to come as a man to die for our sins. Allah did not do that. [/quote]
I can make a similar argument that the Bible prophesized not only Jesus, but Muhammad as well. Enough said there.
[quote]How does Allah save sinners? It would be unjust to forgive the guilty without the penalty being paid. Where does Allah explain the penalty? When and by whom was that penalty paid? If Allah forgives, how does he forgive? Allah simply refuses to forgive or forgives whom he will, but there is no consistent or just basis for either. No Muslim can be sure Allah will forgive him. [/quote]
Not true. The Qur'an states:
Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against your souls! Despair not of the grace of God, for God forgives sins, all of them, for He is much forgiving, most merciful." (39:53)
[quote]As a Christian I know for certain that I have been forgiven all my sins and that I have eternal life as a free gift from God through the death and resurrection of Christ and that I will be in heaven, not by my good works, but by Christ paying the penalty for my sins. Allah is merciful to those who do good. The Bible says that none do good, all have sinned, and that God saves sinners if they believe in the Christ who died for them. [/quote]
Salvation in faith was a concept in Islam long before the likes of Martin Luther of the 15th century. Salvation by faith alone was discussed by the early period scholars of Islam as well as during the period of `ilm al kalam (knowledge of speech).
[quote]You ask where Allah says in the Koran, "Let us make man in our image." I don't read Arabic so can't find that exact place but I was told by an Arabic scholar that in the Arabic that is what it says. However, the God of the Bible said, "Let us make man in our image." If Allah is the same God, why didn't he say that? [/quote]
Not true at all. There is a weak hadith (narrations of Muhammad's sayings, expressions, actions) mentioned in the musnad (compilations) of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal (one of the 4 schools of thought living today amongst the Muslims who has a following) that states similarily of God stating he created humans, Adam in this case, in his image. This is dismissed by the Muslims.
The general concept in Islam is that God is above and beyond His creation. He is not anthropomorphic in nature. Like none unto Him (112) and other chapters, (2), exemplify the nature of God.
Allah is the same God as to whom the Christians worship. Why don't the `Arab Christians from the above mentioned countries refer to God other than Allah in `Arabic? They know that Allah is `arabic for God. Simple.
I am upset that such hostility is thwarted on the Muslims and Islam, specifically after 9/11. My friends whom are Christian are more religious and humble than you are. They never state such rubbish. You claim to exemplify the teachings of Christ, but you contradict each of his teachings and tolerance he had for other faiths.
People like you guys are the reasons why "crusade minded" people of all faiths exploit to further this polarization that exists in our society. You are another pawn in their hands. It is obvious that you have been check-mated by them.
Edit: Numerous times. For the sake of argument and discord. I apologize if any finds the above offensive.