I'm going to spend some time reading into this.
There are many logical proofs of the existence of God, as there are of the validity of the Prophets of God. The Baha'i Writings are a rich source of these proofs. http://reference.bahai.org/en/
Daniels, if you don't mind, can you link me to those pages? The reference is pretty general. It's a bit difficult to find. Is your other topic in this forum what you meant?http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=1509
And I think that you are a bit more optimistic that most of the scientists who aren't followers of the Baha'i faith. I agree with you, there are things in this world not you, I or anyone can explain. But at the same time, it doesn't necessary reiterates the belief of god and religion. People will assume certain things based on their beliefs if it can't be explained another.
However, I think what I was trying to say, in a realistic sense, scientist denounce the use of faith as an explanation because it cannot be proven. Do you see where I'm coming from? I also acknowledge your points on near-death experiences and astral projection. Those are definitely things we can't comprehend. Also, unfortunately I can't recall the title at the moment, but I read a book where a woman had claimed that Jesus had descended from the heavens to take her to experience what hell was like. He was supposedly using her to tell of what hell really is. What she claimed, was that in an astral projectile from, he took her into hell so she could account for herself what it was to come back and write about it. Now that is definitely amazing to read, however it's still something we can't prove. It's just word to mouth and faith in what woman claims may have happened. A scientist wouldn't spend much time on a case like this because it's something that cannot be proven, scientifically. I think this is why they are so harsh on religion and the belief in god.
There is a great deal of information about OBEs on wikipedia. Apparently you don't have to be in a near-death state to experience an OBE, people supposedly have achieved this through mediation, dreams and so on. This is supposedly associated with astral projection, which has been around since ancient China. What I’m reading is, people can deliberately induce these experiences onto themselves, willingly.
These are excerpts from wikipedia.
Approximately one in ten people claim to have had an out-of-body experience at some time in their lives. For some, the phenomenon occurs spontaneously, while for others it is linked to dangerous circumstances, a dream-like state, a near-death experience, or use of psychedelic drugs. A few have been able to induce the experience deliberately through visualizations while in a relaxed, meditative state, or through a lucid dream. Relatively little is known with certainty about OBEs. Recent studies have shown that OBEs can be induced by stimulating the angular gyrus at the temporal-parietal lobe junction.
Another form of a spontaneous OBE occurs during a near death experience (or NDE). The phenomenology of an NDE usually includes physiological, psychological and transcendental factors (Parnia, Waller, Yeates & Fenwick, 2001) such as subjective impressions of being outside the physical body (an out-of-body experience), visions of deceased relatives and religious figures, transcendence of ego and spatiotemporal boundaries and other transcendental experiences (Lukoff, Lu & Turner, 1998; Greyson, 2003). Typically the experience follows a distinct progression, starting with the sensation of floating above one's body and seeing the surrounding area, followed by the sensation of passing through a tunnel, meeting deceased relatives, and concluding with encountering a being of light (Morse, Conner & Tyler, 1985).
Studies by various experts.
English psychologist Susan Blackmore, suggests that an OBE begins when a person loses contact with sensory input from the body while remaining conscious. The person retains the illusion of having a body, but that perception is no longer derived from the senses. The perceived world resembles the world he or she generally inhabits while awake, but this perception does not come from the senses either. The vivid body and world is made by our brain's ability to create fully convincing realms, even in the absence of sensory information. This process is witnessed by each of us every night in our dreams. Technically all dreams could be called OBEs in that in them we experience events and places quite apart from the location and activity of our normally perceived body and world.
Olaf Blanke studies
There is now an ongoing research project into the neuroscience of OBEs being undertaken by Olaf Blanke in Switzerland. This line of research acknowledges the experiences as reported by the subjects as valid. That is, people really do feel as if they have left their body. However, researchers have found that it is possible to reliably elicit such experiences by stimulating regions of the brain called the right temporal-parietal junction (TPJ; a region where the temporal lobe and parietal lobe of the brain come together). This evidence calls into question the idea a second or astral body is an objective reality within these experiences. Blanke however does not dismiss the idea that these experiences may have objective factors, in a 2002 BBC Radio interview he stated that one of his patients had accurately perceived information outside of her sensory range after stimulation of her right-angular gyrus. He went on to say that more research was needed.
Olaf Blanke and his collaborators in Switzerland have explored the neural basis of OBEs by showing that they are reliably associated with lesions in the right TPJ region and that they can be reliably elicited with electrical stimulation of this region in a patient with epilepsy. These elicited experiences include percepts of transformations of the patient's arm and legs (complex somatosensory responses) and whole-body displacements (vestibular responses), all of which are commonly reported in OBEs.
In neurologically normal subjects, Blanke and colleagues then showed that the conscious experience of the self and body being in the same location depends on multisensory integration in the TPJ. Using event-related potentials, Blanke and colleagues showed the selective activation of the TPJ 330-400 ms after stimulus onset when healthy volunteers imagined themselves in the position and visual perspective that generally are reported by people experiencing spontaneous OBEs. Transcranial magnetic stimulation in the same subjects impaired mental transformation of the participant’s own body. No such effects were found with stimulation of another site or for imagined spatial transformations of external objects, suggesting the selective implication of the TPJ in mental imagery of one's own body. In a follow up study, Arzy et al. showed that the location and timing of brain activation depended on whether mental imagery is performed with mentally embodied or disembodied self location. When subjects performed mental imagery with an embodied location, there was increased activation of a region called the "extrastriate body area" (EBA), but when subjects performed mental imagery with a disembodied location, as reported in OBEs, there was increased activation in the region of the TPJ. This leads Arzy et al. to argue that "these data show that distributed brain activity at the EBA and TPJ as well as their timing are crucial for the coding of the self as embodied and as spatially situated within the human body."
Blanke and colleagues thus propose that the right temporal-parietal junction is important for the sense of spatial location of the self, and that when these normal processes go awry, an OBE arises.
Michael Persinger studies
Michael Persinger has undertaken similar research to Olaf Blanke using magnetic stimulation applied to the right temporal lobe of the brain, which is known to be involved in visuo-spatial functions, multi-sensory integration and the construction of the sense of the body in space. Persinger's research also found evidence for objective neural difference between periods of remote viewing in two individuals thought to have psychic abilities. Persinger undertook his research on Sean Harribance and Ingo Swann, a renowned remote viewer who has taken part in numerous studies. Examination of Harribance showed enhanced EEG activity within the alpha band (8 - 12 Hz) over Harribance's right parieto-occipital region, consistent with neuropsychological evidence of early brain trauma in these regions. In a second study, Ingo Swann was asked to draw images of pictures hidden in envelopes in another room. Individuals with no knowledge of the nature of the study rated Swann's comments and drawings as congruent with the remotely viewed stimulus at better than chance levels, suggestive of some psi ability. Additionally, on trials in which Swann was correct, the duration of 7 Hz (alpha band) paroxysmal discharges over the right occipital lobe was longer. Subsequent anatomical MRI examination showed anomalous subcortical white matter signals focused in the perieto-occipital interface of the right hemisphere that were not expected for his age or history.