Sep 7 2009, 06:13 PM
on today's NYT front page, below the fold, there is a story entitled, TRADE CENTER STEEL FORMS HEART OF MEMORIALS.
and then there is a color pic of a seriously distorted piece of structural steel.
the story continues onto, and for the entirety of, page A3. with pix of an inventory of structural steel from WTC.
were any of you on this board aware that a collection of this structural steel had been retained? this story surprised me.
would you think that this steel has some probative value if subjected to forensic examination?
if forensic examination[by indepedent mellurgists] of this steel has not been conducted, do you think that turning this material over for memorial installations should proceed prior to such analysis being performed?
Sep 7 2009, 07:03 PM
Crap, all my links for this stuff are broken. Here's a couple of pics from Hanger 17 that I had saved on my hard drive. Wish I had saved all of them. They even scrubbed them from the Wayback Machine.
Sep 7 2009, 08:58 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH JFK.
i know why i missed this issue of the nyt. i was in a part of wyoming where there are no newspapers.
why were these bits of debris retained when the bulk of the steel was dispatched for reprocessing?
i noticed that there are some tents within this very large hanger - what do you think they shelter? airframe components?
who has had access to this debris?
any forensic metallurgists? if so, whom?
any metallurgical photographers? if so, whom?
and as i asked initially, would you think that this collection continues to have any probative value concerning the destruction of wtc buildings?
QUOTE (albertchampion @ Sep 7 2009, 07:58 PM)
THANK YOU SO MUCH JFK.
You are very welcome AC, I think it was one of DYEW's links at LCF which is how I found it.
I don't have any answers to the rest of your questions unfortunately.
Sep 14 2009, 10:07 PM
here is what i received from some rep from architects and engineers for 911truth.
along with my follow-up questions...
"who owns the contents of hangar 17? the city of new york? or the port of newyork/newjersey authority?
or do you know?
has anyone made any legal effort to examine this debris?
is there a published inventory of the contents of this hangar?"
--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Justin Keogh <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> From: Justin Keogh <email@example.com>
> Subject: Re: HANGAR 17, JFK AIRPORT
> To: "albert champion" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Cc: "Technical" <email@example.com>
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 1:13 PM
> As far as we know, no that steel has not been examined
> forensically. The city would need to allow it.
> FEMA did have some steel to examine:
> Sincerely, Justin Keogh
Sep 15 2009, 08:32 PM
justin's response to my last msg. perhaps some of you may be better able to assist architects/engineers for 911 truth than i am....
"I wish we did know, we are in desperate need of volunteers, we would be very grateful if you could track this important info down, you are not the first to ask about it. We are always looking for new volunteers if you have skills you can lend ;-)"
Sep 15 2009, 08:54 PM
my reply to justin and the text of the 07/09/09 nyt frontpage article....
here is the article from 07/09/09 frontpage NYT. many names are mentioned.
i would like to think that architects/engineers have friends resources in manhattan. i live in houston. not a convenient venue for assisting.
September 7, 2009
Sept. 11 Steel Forms Heart of Far-Flung Memorials
By MICHAEL WILSON
When Jeff Cox, a 15-year-old candidate for the rank of Eagle Scout in Windermere, Fla., approached the small town’s mayor with park improvement ideas to help earn a badge, the mayor informed him that those projects were already covered.
“He came back and said, ‘Would the town like a memorial if I can get World Trade Center steel?’ ” Mayor Gary Bruhn said. “I was stunned. I said, ‘Son, the town would be elated to have something like that.’ He said, ‘I think I need the town’s support. I don’t think they’re going to just give it to me.’”
No, they would not — but close. As the anniversary of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, approaches on Friday, pieces of the World Trade Center rubble from that day have never been more accessible. A new campaign is under way to speed up the process and increase the volume of giving away pieces of steel big and small from the debris.
The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the steel, will invite police and fire departments and mayors and other leaders of cities and towns throughout the country to ask for pieces for memorials. The Port Authority has filled about 25 requests in the last year, and has about a dozen more pending. In recent weeks, trucks have hauled twisted steel columns that weigh hundreds of pounds to York, Pa., and Westerville, Ohio. A smaller piece was shipped to the Air Defense offices of the United States Air Force in Rome, N.Y.
“The best way we can honor the memory of those we lost on 9/11 is to find homes in the W.T.C. Memorial and in cities and towns around the nation for the hundreds of artifacts we’ve carefully preserved over the years,” said the Port Authority’s executive director, Christopher O. Ward.
The Port Authority hopes to generate more interest in the steel with new advertisements in police, fire and municipal trade magazines. There are 1,800 to 2,000 pieces, half of them very large, which are available for carting away, at the recipient’s expense. This does not include some 200 pieces, among them the most familiar and iconic, that have been claimed by the National Sept. 11 Memorial and Museum.
Among the pending requests are one from Las Vegas, where the Atomic Testing Museum wants a 79-inch piece to fit in its custom-made case, and one from Eastern Kentucky University, which requested a piece one and a half feet long. There is a also request from a group of fire departments in France.
“The Saint-Etienne fire brigade would very much like to exhibit an artefact from the World Trade Center in order to pay tribute to the victims, civilian and fire fighters of the 11th September attack,” wrote Col. Yves Bussiere, of the regional fire department.
The pieces — some weighing tons, others little more than twisted sheets of metal the size of a street sign — are stored at Hangar 17 at Kennedy International Airport. The 80,000-square-foot hangar is divided by several large plastic tents, where machines regulate the humidity so the steel doesn’t rust. In one tent, a New York City police car sits crumpled in the corner, as if tossed there.
Lee Ielpi, president of the September 11 Families’ Association, is sending letters to public safety agencies offering artifacts. “Any bona fide city, town, county, state, corporations, other countries, France, Paris, Lyon, that would want a piece of steel, it would behoove us to accommodate them,” he said.
In the years immediately following the attacks, donations of 9/11 artifacts trickled out to various entities, but the requests were not handled by a single organization, the Port Authority said. The agency requires a detailed description in each request of how the steel will be displayed. Individuals cannot receive artifacts, only cities or organizations. The requests that are pending supplied detailed specifications for the pieces they want: “I am looking for an ‘I’ beam roughly 8’ in length; however, anything that we could have would mean more than words could ever express,” wrote Lt. Michael L. Zarella with the fire department of Mendon, Mass. He visited and chose the piece he wanted, a 10-foot-long hunk of steel “twisted like a party streamer,” he said.
Requests for the steel must also be approved by Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein of Federal District Court, who is overseeing the wrongful death lawsuits stemming from the attacks. While the steel is considered potential evidence in those cases, tests on the steel were completed in 2005. The judge has since granted all requests and has given no indication he will do otherwise for the pending ones.
The requests are deferential. “All we need is a 1-foot-by-1-foot-by-4-feet tall piece of steel,” read a letter from the mayor and the president of a memorial in Glens Falls, N.Y. “It’s a small piece of steel to fill our big hearts.”
In Wichita, Kan., the Transportation Security Administration awaits shipment of a 600-pound piece of steel. Officials plan to chop it into eight pieces and display each piece in one of the state’s airports. “Most of these are really, really small airports,” said Keith Osborn, the security director.
Steel will be displayed in two parks only about 20 miles apart in Ohio: one beside the Westerville Fire Division Headquarters (“We plan on standing it up and have it facing in the same direction it was when it was in New York, with the north side facing in the right direction,” said a firefighter, Thomas C. Ullom); the other in Hilliard, which selected three pieces. Both memorials will be called First Responder Park.
On Friday, Jack Sommer, the president of Prospect Hill Cemetery in York, Pa., came to Hangar 17 to collect a piece, watching as a cemetery employee strapped a chunk of steel, concrete and gnarled rebar to a trailer. In an added flourish, the men had spread an American flag under the steel. A Port Authority police car escorted them out.
In Windermere, a town of 3,000, the prospective Eagle Scout, Jeff Cox, got the mayor’s support for his project and was waiting for his steel. He was just 7 when the attacks took place. “I wasn’t really sure what the building was, but it kind of scared me,” he said. “No one was really sure what was going to happen.”
He said he has been promised a big piece. “They sent me about six options to pick from,” he said. “I ended up taking part of a steel beam, about three and a half or four feet, 650 pounds.”