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Tamborine man
Anyone remember this thread from july 2007, where I quoted the following?

I was trying to show that 'Life' continues after 'death', but no one was particularly interested.

Sanders thought it had something to do with religion, and painter thought I was a troll.

No question was forthcoming, so the thread died out quietly and quickly.

Much exciting developments has taken place since then, so that's why i'm here again.

If just one person out of a hundred responds favourably to the text below, or if just a half

person out of 50 responds, then what follows should turn out to be rather interesting!

Read this text very carefully.

Then listen carefully to the faint inner voice of your conscience....... about whether it appeals to you -

or not:

----------------------------

Yes, the Presidents speech gives out quite ominous unpalatable messages
which, sadly, compels one to show how the spiritual or transcendental world looks at the situation!



ALL WARFARE IS ROOTED IN DARKNESS

In his “State of the Union” address 2003, President George W. Bush concluded his speech with these words:


“We Americans have faith in ourselves, but not in ourselves alone. We do not
know – we do not claim to know all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them, placing our confidence in the loving God behind all of life, and all of history.
May He guide us now. And may God continue to bless the United States of America.”

Whether the President and his administration have since placed their confidence in ‘the loving God behind all of life’, and whether this god in the same period have guided the President and blessed the United States of America, is today worthy of a new look and we hope the answer to these questions will appear to all good and kind people in the messages that follows.

Let us remind ourselves first and foremost of the Golden Rule (which is present in virtually all known religions, as well as being used by more prominent Philosophers, Scribes and Sages, through the ages), and which simply state: Do to others as you would others do to you, when destitution, sickness or sufferings in various ways befalls you.
Coinciding with the Golden Rule, we were also given this little simple advise: As you sow, so shall you reap!

In the Light of this, let us go on and carefully read these extracts from a unique work by the apt name of “Toward the Light”, first published in 1920.

____________

"I speak unto you who are the rulers of the many nations, whether you be rulers by inheritance or election, and whichever title you may bear. Hear me, for I speak unto you all!
Make it your common goal that each of you shall become the best and most worthy person of your nation. Demand much of yourselves, that you may demand much of others. Be beyond reproach in your dealings, that all may respect, honour and love you. Choose your counsellors with great care and wisdom, and choose them from among those who are unselfish, truthful, wise and just. Protect the weak, the poor and the oppressed. Be unselfish in your care for the welfare of the nations and the peoples. Never act against that which your conscience tells you to be truth and justice.
Do not gain dominion over the realms of others by force or by cunning, and never compel the people of other nations to submit in humility to your rule; for all this is of the evil!
Be understanding and patient toward the people whose native countries have been seized by your forefathers, by your predecessors or by yourselves. Seek to rectify and to assuage some of the injustice that has been brought upon those who have been compelled by force and through hatred and envy to live under foreign rule, and who against their will have been separated from those states to which they rightfully belong.
Be as brethren toward one another. With good will abolish all strife and dispute, and never disturb the peace which prevails among the realms and the nations.
Yea, truly I say unto you: be you the first to establish an enduring, brotherly concord; and pray unto our Father to bless you and the pact which you agree upon, that you and your successors may be able to keep the promises that you have given one another. Yea, pray unto our Father to bless you, that you and those who come after you may never, never again break the peace upon the Earth!

Pray unto our Father to enlighten you upon the truth of my words. Pray unto Him for help and guidance, that each of you may truly fill the position that is yours.

----------------

I speak unto you who are the givers of laws, unto you who in numerous ways take part in
the various kinds of governance in the nations and the states. Hear me, for I speak unto you all!
Make it your common goal fully and with all your might to serve the country and the people to which you belong. Prepare your laws as though you yourselves should be judged by each and every statute, for then will your laws be just.
Do not by guile or with deceit force yourselves into high positions that are not rightfully yours and which you cannot properly fill. Be truthful to the utmost and be sincere in all your speech. Never act against your conscience, indeed, never act upon selfish thoughts of personal gain! Cease all your disgraceful strife and quarrelling. Never hurl bitter or hateful words against those who share not your beliefs. Do not besmirch the name and honour of your adversaries by false accusations, by untrue and wicked slander. Be meek toward one another. Go to meet one another, seek to work in mutual peace and understanding, that you may best further the interests of the nations and the peoples.
Abolish all condemning unto death; for no human being has the right to take the life of another, no matter how many crimes have been committed. Do not prepare laws that compel your brethren to murder and to slay one another in warfare; for all this is of the evil! Let all bearing of arms be of the free will, until all the nations and lands upon the Earth are united in a lasting, unbreakable pact of peace.
Give proper care unto the poor, unto the sick and to the wretched of all ages - men as well as women - unto all abandoned wives, unto all needy widows and unto all orphans among you. For I say unto you: however vast your nation may be, there shall not be one single human being in distress - man, woman or child - who must beg for their daily bread. Nor must anyone able and willing to labour drift about without home and without work. Therefore, provide shelter, food, clothing and work without delay for all who cannot obtain these for themselves.
Support not and help not in any manner by which it becomes demeaning charity, but in such manner that those who receive the help and support from your society can with gladness and gratitude accept the help that is offered them.
Yea, truly, I say unto you: your obligations are many, and your responsibility is great; I ask you therefore carefully to consider that which I have said unto you. For you shall know that if out of selfishness or faintness of heart you give not care unto the poor, unto the suffering and to the unfortunate, then shall you surely taste the want and misery of the homeless and the poor in your coming lives upon the Earth until you have learnt to take pity on your unfortunate fellow human beings.
Pray unto our Father to open your eyes, that you may see the truth of my words. Pray unto our Father to sustain and to guide you; for is He with you, then shall your laws surely be fully just.”

____________

(My comment then):
There is in todays world much fear that the United States are contemplating to launch a nuclear strike against Iran and are just waiting for the right opportunity to manifest itself! before embarking on such a campaign. The consequences of this kind of attack could cause utter devastation, and cause horrendous sufferings to millions of people, as a conflict of this magnitude would surely spread to neighbouring countries and beyond! Indeed, the ramifications would be very disastrous not only for the nations involved, but also for the leaders themselves who so foolishly would be considering actions of this nature. In order to prevent such a terrible conflict to become reality, let us again turn to another extract of text from the same work which deals with the question of warfare and its implications:

____________

“ - In one area that is equally important to the upbringing of children - namely the area of legislation - human beings can themselves assist in improving conditions on Earth through the enactment of laws that have been carefully considered, laws that do not restrain the initiative of the free will or compel the individual to act against the best and the noblest in every human mind. For laws of coercion of any kind that are issued by the leaders and the rulers of the different countries serve only to promote the power of Darkness and to obstruct the progress of the Light. There must of course be laws to regulate the domestic and foreign affairs of countries and the postures of nations toward each other, but if it happens that these laws compel people to act contrary to their inner conviction, against their conscience, or if the natural development of the free will is impeded, then these laws will have only a destructive effect, and the rulers will have abused their power.
Among such laws of coercion must be counted, for example, compulsory military service.
So long as military service is only "peaceful", the many open air exercises and the discipline can in many ways have a beneficial effect on body and spirit, provided that the officers and superiors act humanely and do not abuse their authority in a degrading and improper fashion. But as soon as the game of war turns to deadly earnest and the soldiers are confronted with stark reality, facing living masses that will become fodder for their cannons, sabres, bayonets and other weapons, when they know that they will become the cause of the maiming or death of many people, then most of them must do violence to their conscience in order to act in the manner demanded by the leadership of their country. The best and the noblest in the souls of such human beings is often destroyed, since in order to deaden the rising abhorrence for the deed they are about to commit they let themselves be gripped by the din and the fury of battle and act blindly in order to avoid thinking of the horror that is before them. These human beings should never be compelled to commit such deeds, since very often it is they who in the battle's confusing and degrading turmoil commit the worst and entirely unnecessary atrocities.
But as long as the law governing compulsory military service exists, it is to no avail that single individuals or several in concert refuse to comply with the duty that is demanded by a country's government, since this kind of insubordination only brings harm to the disobedient and in no way upsets the existing order. In such cases there is but one thing to do: to submit to the duties that are imposed by society, even though performance of such duties clashes with one's innermost feelings. By acting in this way the individual stands with a clear conscience, while the responsibility for these compulsory actions will fall upon those who originate and enforce such laws.
These coercive laws should therefore be repealed by the leaders, the legislators and the rulers; when they realize that such coercion cannot be in harmony with God's desires and purposes, the time will have come for the existing laws to be repealed and replaced by new laws.
In order to provide a transition from present conditions to the time when a general and universal peace among all nations is an accomplished fact, all military service should be a voluntary matter, with no compulsion whatsoever of the individual, since responsibility for the many untimely deaths, the many murders and atrocities and the destruction is placed by God upon the leaders, the legislators and the rulers, even though the individual soldier - the aggressor as well as the defender - must give account of all the unnecessary cruelties of which he is personally guilty. On the other hand, if military service is placed on a voluntary basis until further notice, then the chief responsibility will be evenly divided among all the participants in war, the leaders as well as the soldiers in the field.

All warfare is against God's Will and is in conflict with the laws of the Light, and it benefits neither one nor the other warring nation to call upon God's assistance as supreme war lord; any supplication to God to bless the armaments or to bless the armies, so that under His leadership they may gain victory over their opponents, is therefore a blasphemous prayer.
Any conception of God as war lord or war leader must be rooted out, since all bloodshed, all destruction, all subversion is completely irreconcilable with the nature of God. Again and again God has sought to lead human beings to a complete understanding of love for their neighbours and respect for all that belongs to them. Time and again ever since the dawn of history God's emissaries have proclaimed to human beings: "You shall not kill, nor take by force, nor rob, nor plunder!" But so far the appeal has been in vain, human beings have not yet been able to free themselves from the primal urge of brutish self-assertion through violence to the detriment of their fellow human beings. So long as the individual members of the nations of the world do not unite and strive toward mutual peace and forbearance, so long as human beings cannot with complete faith in God's Fatherliness and Justice place everything in His hand and with trust submit to His leadership, so long as the will of the many is not one with His Will, so long can bloodshed, violence and war not cease, and so long can the hope for peace not be victorious on Earth.
Human beings must overcome the influence of Darkness, overcome hatred, curses, envy and lust for power through belief in God's existence and by trusting His guidance, rather than through prayers for help to crush their enemies and opponents by acts of violence for God never hears and never answers such prayers.
If it could be conceived that an entire people were united in complete trust in God and in the absolute certitude that no evil arising from ambitious, envious or rapacious neighbours could befall them, then even the most evil of designs would fall to the ground, since it would be lost on so unanimous and complete a faith. But where can such a people be found? Humanity is still in its infancy, and centuries or millennia may pass before full understanding of such an unshakeable relationship of trust between God and human beings can be attained.

Thus, all warfare is rooted in Darkness and is brought about by the mutual intolerance of the various nations, which in turn can be attributed to the lust for power of the leaders and the rulers. If the human will for evil thus calls forth fighting and destruction and a war begins, the nation that initiates the hostilities must bear the responsibility for the war of aggression as well as for the war of defence forced upon the other nation and its allies, regardless of the forms that the war may take. And so long as the attacked nation limits itself to the defence of its country, of its rights, the aggressor will continue to be in the wrong. But the moment the defender extends the hostilities to the territory of the aggressor in order to attack rather than to defend, both sides must share the responsibility for whatever takes place from the moment the border into enemy territory is crossed. (The same laws apply if the battles are fought at sea or in the air).
The victory or defeat of the warring parties can in no way be attributed to God. Never does He take part in the hostilities, neither on the side of the aggressor nor on the side of the defender. Only prayers for help to restore peace will be heard by God, but His many and persistent attempts to speak to the leaders as their "conscience" are in most cases rejected.
The victorious party defeats its adversary by virtue of numerical or strategic superiority or the like, or because of the people's common hatred of the enemy and the people's common will to win; but victory is never gained with the help of God.
Any person - civilian or military - who praises, defends and glorifies war in writing or in speech, instead of evoking aversion to this deed of Darkness and enlightening his fellow human beings on the degradation and brutishness of war, is himself placing a heavy burden of responsibility on his shoulders and must, having ended his earthly life, render a detailed account to God of the motivations for his actions.
Even though human beings wage war among themselves, and even though God does not hear their prayers for victory, He never loses sight of them, but seeks either directly or through the disincarnated Youngest to awaken remorse among the leaders, just as He tries in many ways to instil in them an awareness of the injustice and the abuse of power of which they are guilty, so as to bring about a pact of peace before one of the parties succumbs to the superior force; but in the vast majority of cases also these attempts are rejected by human beings.

Many of the disincarnated Youngest gather where the fiercest battles rage in order to minimize by their presence the effect of the erupting Darkness and to divert those accumulations of Darkness that are inevitably drawn to the scenes of battle by the passions that are unleashed, and also to bring the thousands of spirits that were bound to the slain human bodies back to their dwellings in the spheres.
The Youngest will also try, for as long as a state of war obtains, to evoke feelings of compassion and to bring about acts of mercy among those directly or indirectly involved in the war, so as to counteract the influence of Darkness.

The love of human beings for their country is under normal circumstances an excellent and exalted sentiment, but it is ugly and degrading when, aroused by the passions of war, it turns into egoism and self-worship. For regarding this self-overestimation and complacency, human beings must never forget that those men and women who from the earliest times and in the various nations have risen high above the average human being, and who in the service of the Light have exerted a lasting cultural influence on the peoples of their countries in the religious, ethical, scientific, social and political areas, have all been the incarnated Youngest, who under the leadership of God have let themselves be born at those places where at that time there were the best prospects for introducing innovations and improvements. And as even the most advanced human spirits have not yet developed the ability to enrich their fellow human beings either spiritually or materially, nor yet succeeded in raising themselves above the purely human level in spiritual respects, humanity has no grounds whatsoever for self-overestimation or self-admiration, but reason only to thank God for the abundance of the gifts that He has given them through His emissaries.

So that no government by the few, nor by a single head of state,
should in the future be tempted through error of judgment or hasty decision to involve their own and thereby one or more other nations in ruinous and totally destructive war, all states should agree upon a common governing body, consisting of delegates from all the countries and all the factions, to act not as a peace conference meeting from time to time but as a permanent authority whose members are elected for a longer period of office, and to whose hands all the disputes and entanglements of nations will be entrusted for joint resolution; for all disputes of any kind whatsover can and should be settled by peaceful, diplomatic means. For in no respect whatsoever can humanity defend before God its presumed right to settle its disagreements by arms and by force.
If all the nations, all the peoples of the East and of the West, would voluntarily meet in a joint endeavour to achieve a lasting peace, they would be assured of receiving all possible help from the transcendental world under the supreme leadership of God. However, it will be of no avail to establish a general world authority until the will exists in full sincerity and accord to fulfil the hope of "the eternal peace". But once such co-operation has been agreed upon and initiated it should never be breached, since the nation that deceitfully fails to honour its pledge thereby takes an unbounded responsibility upon itself; because every vow that is broken draws Darkness to those who deliberately commit deceitful acts, and the gathered Darkness will draw the Elder's recorded future-images forth into reality upon the plane of the Earth and thus for long periods of time hinder the toilsome journeying of mankind.
These proposals for a general world authority or international court of law have in various ways been put forward by human beings in the past, but have not hitherto awakened the proper response and understanding. But with the permission of our God and Father this proposal is hereby advanced from the transcendental world - from the spiritual leaders of mankind - in the hope that those who are well placed to advocate and implement some treaty of this nature will heed these words in times to come.
And when the time comes that all human beings in full understanding should agree to enact an inviolable pact of peace, all manufacture of all kinds of armaments and weapons of war should cease, and never more be resumed.
Through an unbreachable treaty of peace between all the peoples and the nations they will lay a firm foundation for an effective and a fruitful joint endeavour between the children of the Light and the children of the Earth, an endeavour that will in many ways be a great help to the Youngest in their work for humanity, and benefit especially those of the Youngest who are incarnated as human beings.”

____________

(My comment then):
We hope and trust that these excerpts speak for themselves, and has given the reader a far better understanding of the true nature of God in the highest - of ‘the loving God behind all of Life’ - than what so far can be glanced from the religious conflicts, or otherwise, that plagues the world in these troubled times.

And we look much forward to the day when more advanced Nations,
completely without insincerity or duplicity, can truly enlighten the lesser developed countries on Earth about the futility of causing the death to some of their fellow citizens or to the citizens of other countries - either as a measure of punishment for crimes committed, or in senseless and degrading conflicts and devastating wars.

We pray that all who are reading this may find the right answer in their hearts, thereby help saving the lives of countless fellow human beings – men and women, young and old – in times to come.

(MY comment now):
PS!
The natural law of karma (the law of cause and retribution) can become extremely harch to people who refuse to admit their guilt and their crimes, but much kinder to people who without coercion, and through the genuine feeling of remorse, admits their guilt.
The amount of solicitors, lawyers and barristers in the world is ample proof enough, that this doesn't happen too often. In fact the numbers who do, can probably still be
counted by two hands.

We will but hope that this drastically changes in the future.

Tamborine man
lunk
If the will of the people, is the Will of God,
and the media controls the minds, of most of the people,
then whoever controls the media, is guiding the Will of God.

Silence is seen, in this world as consent through acquiescence,
contrary to what we are told that, "silence is no form of consent".

How can the meek ever inherit the Earth?

If the universe goes on to infinity in all directions,
then each one of us is the center of the universe,
and everyone else is the center of their universe too.

All things in the universe are made from triangles,
as it takes a minimum of three points, to determine a plain.
Yet a triangle has no volume, it takes a fourth point, to have volume in the universe.

That fourth point, is each individual living thing.

i remember when i was in elementary school,
the ambient atmosphere of the classroom was different, if somebody was not there, that day, i could feel this, before i figured out who wasn't there that day.

Perhaps there is only one of us, experiencing our universe, from every possible angle, and conceivable perspective.

One could not be all knowing, without all experiences,
and experiences are finite, and can only be experienced by one single individual.
Perhaps this is why it is said that your experiences and joys are your own.

We must figure out, and understand this world, while we are in it,
or we will never be able to comprehend an afterlife.

It takes time, to Know.

cheers!

...∞i∞...
GroundPounder
thanks T-man, i missed it the first time around. i can imagine the world being a much better place if the golden rule really served as a guide to most people. if a 'leader' would call for war and nobody would follow, darkness could not gain a foothold.
Tamborine man
Hi Lunk, thanks for your reply. cheers.gif

QUOTE
If the will of the people, is the Will of God,
and the media controls the minds, of most of the people,
then whoever controls the media, is guiding the Will of God.


IF....... but the Will of the people, is the will of God, ...
then, of course, we wouldn't have anything called 'media control'.
A thing like ThaT would be unthinkable within a collective mindset
with a power of such magnitude, such power, such kindness, such Love.

QUOTE
Silence is seen, in this world as consent through acquiescence,
contrary to what we are told that, "silence is no form of consent".


So true.
'Silence' could even be considered the "True" sign of 'no consent'
in all aspects of Life!

QUOTE
How can the meek ever inherit the Earth?


How could the haughty, the arrogant, the overbearing, the proud,
ever become the One to ever inherit anything - of True value!
Choose wisely here - if you don't already know! But you do, don't you!



QUOTE
If the universe goes on to infinity in all directions,
then each one of us is the center of the universe,
and everyone else is the center of their universe too.

All things in the universe are made from triangles,
as it takes a minimum of three points, to determine a plain.
Yet a triangle has no volume, it takes a fourth point, to have volume in the universe.

That fourth point, is each individual living thing.


Yes - "in all directions". Also through the higher dimensions, not to forget!

And the funny thing is: there exist no such thing as a straight line in the whole of the universe.
'It' can only be thought of abstractly.
Absolutely everything is made of particles that vibrate at a certain wavelength according to its
inherent or innate nature. So even the poor 'straight' line is made up of this 'strange' phenomena.

QUOTE
a) i remember when i was in elementary school,
the ambient atmosphere of the classroom was different, if somebody was not there, that day, i could feel this, before i figured out who wasn't there that day.

B) Perhaps there is only one of us, experiencing our universe, from every possible angle, and conceivable perspective.

c) One could not be all knowing, without all experiences,
and experiences are finite, and can only be experienced by one single individual.
Perhaps this is why it is said that your experiences and joys are your own.

d) We must figure out, and understand this world, while we are in it,
or we will never be able to comprehend an afterlife.

e) It takes time, to Know.

cheers!

...∞i∞...



a) A psychic? An over-average sensitive? A more advanced soul?
Perhaps all of the above?
Yea - why not, me thinks.

B) Perhaps there are "two" of you?
I think that would be a much better proposition.

c) Experiences are infinite, as all Good things are.

d) Agree. Lets figure it out now.

e) Then lets hurry up the whole goddamn process.
Lets start with the beautiful music. With the good vibrations.


Forgive me for commenting on virtually everything you wrote.
But don't forget it was you, yourself, that drove me to it!! thumbsup.gif

Cheers back
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 15 2010, 09:22 PM) *
thanks T-man, i missed it the first time around. i can imagine the world being a much better place if the golden rule really served as a guide to most people. if a 'leader' would call for war and nobody would follow, darkness could not gain a foothold.



Many thanks back, GroundPounder.

Yes, bloody spot on. Wouldn't that be nice!
But sadly, as said above, mankind is still in its infancy, to a too large degree!
Far the most definitely and sorely needs a wake-up call, ASAP!

Cheers
lunk
Thanks for the response.

The problem, as i see it, is our world is ruled by a human hierarchy.
And probably always has been.
There is no complaints department, or oversight comity.
They hold all power, over the people.
All religions have been corrupted, and probably always were,
before they were foisted upon a regions population.
People are being terrified and chemically/biologically dumbed down.
People go through their one and only life unknowing
that it was planned and designed by people, for them,
long before they were born.

We are being lied to through history, education, news.
Falsehoods are being subliminally inserted into entertainment.
The big flat-screen tv is now a higher resolution than reality.
People disregard what they see with their very own eyes, over what they are told on television.
Really quite amazing.

Most people are fully locked into the false surface reality given to them through the main stream media.
Completely indoctrinated by the system, for the system,
designed so it cannot be seen any other way.
(and they do put up quite a fuss, when you try to point this out to them)

The thing is that this is an ongoing process, and we (those of us who are awake to what's going on) have this window of opportunity to stop it.
If this current system is not stopped, it will destroy all the Earth, and itself too.
The system is so big, but it is slow, like a steam roller.
Get in front of it and it will crush everything.
But perhaps we can veer it off, in another direction,
or even turn it back upon itself.

This gives us a purpose.
We (those of us who are awake) are here,
to turn this whole crushing system around,
back on itself.

So, how to do that?

If you know how the magician performs the trick,
there is no magic in it.

Well financed foundations, and think tanks, plan and write what they are going to do, and publish it in boring journals.
In this way, they announce their plans to the people.
If there is no opposition, it is carried out through government policy.
(this is why i say that there is no way that the meek can inherit the Earth.)
If no one speaks up, then through silence, we have agreed, to the next direction of the steam roller.

It's not the dichotomy of boisterousness versus silence,
when i speak of the meek.

I suppose the meek could also be looked at as the ones,
with the least voice in the world of the mass-man media.

Could that be those of us, who are for truth?
(LOL. the fourth point)

i'll get to philosophizing the afterlife later, i got things to do.

cheers
Tamborine man
Nodding emphatic to virtually everything you say.

I'm here of course, in the vain hope that some of the real baddies are lurking,
or checking up on this forum, and in the process might come across something
here and there that grabs their attention, and perhaps sets them on a much more
positive and progressive course.
Am I dreaming? Perhaps. Time will tell.

Good you came back to the word 'meek'.
It's a strange word really, in the sense that it has both very negative and very positive
connotations.

On the negative side it can mean: compliant, spineless, spiritless, timid, tame, weak,
or even weak-kneed!

But on the positive side it makes more sense, for here it can mean: forbearing, gentle,
humble, long-suffering, mild, modest, patient, peaceful, unassuming and unpretentious.

So i'm sure it would be the latter one should use, when talking about any kind of inheritance;
mother Earth, or otherwise good things.

Patience is really the answer, for impatience draws darkness to the unfortunate who suffers
from this terrible sickness.

Don't forget, it has taking us around 4 million years to come this far. It will probably take us
another 4 million years or more, to reach the end of this form of life we are experiencing!

Not you, I, and a few others, of course. We are so advanced that we probably only need
1 million years or so, before we come to the end of our incarnations! wink.gif

cheers
lunk
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 19 2010, 02:46 AM) *
So i'm sure it would be the latter one should use, when talking about any kind of inheritance;
mother Earth, or otherwise good things.

Patience is really the answer, for impatience draws darkness to the unfortunate who suffers
from this terrible sickness.

Don't forget, it has taking us around 4 million years to come this far. It will probably take us
another 4 million years or more, to reach the end of this form of life we are experiencing!

Not you, I, and a few others, of course. We are so advanced that we probably only need
1 million years or so, before we come to the end of our incarnations! wink.gif

cheers


Ah, reincarnation and
the Earth seen as a matriarchal, entity generator
...mother?!

Those are some very strange beliefs.

i think i can see things a little differently.

Each one of us IS the center, creator, and reason for the universes' existence.
The universe is your own, everything in it relies entirely upon you, for its' continued existence.

As every living thing is the center of the universe, too,
the continuum and continuity of your universe follows a logical but changing, progression.

So, it could be thought that the way the world is, is the cumulative effect of
the finite experiences and actions of all living things interacting within that continuum.

Then there is the question of time,

We know time, as the shortest duration we can measure,
though we can theorize shorter lengths of time, beyond the infinitesimal.

The longest duration we can measure is, i guess, the age of the universe,
though we can theorize longer durations to infinity.

Our universe is limited to those measurable extremes.
Everything outside of this range, cannot interact directly with your universe.

The other beings, in your universe are you, too, experiencing their universe from a completely different, or similar, set of circumstances.

The universe, of course, is made of different densities of time, where
things at one rate of time, interact with things in different time speeds. (hard to find words for these ideas) as matter is just a spot of very slow time, that is made of a great length of empty space, anyway.

This means, i think, that our experience of time in the universe is not necessarily the quickest, or slowest.

Leaving this universe behind, could mean experiencing time,
at a completely different rate, than here on Earth,
in this universe.

So, in my mind, there is no reincarnation because it is the same one being,
that is reincarnating, as what we see, as everyone,
and that is our self.

As for the Earth being our mother...

QUOTE
"she lay with her son, Uranus, and bore the world-ocean god Oceanus, Coeus and Crius and the Titans Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, and Phoebe of the golden crown, and lovely Tethys. After them was born Cronus the wily, youngest and most terrible of her children, and he hated his lusty sire."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_%28mythology%29

Theoretically, we could be born, on a space ship orbiting Uranus, these days.

i think one must be aware of, and differentiate between, belief systems
and logical conclusions based on real facts.

Hope this doesn't sound too off the wall.
Sorry for the long post.
GroundPounder
QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 17 2010, 01:12 PM) *
Each one of us IS the center, creator, and reason for the universes' existence.
The universe is your own, everything in it relies entirely upon you, for its' continued existence.


the book 'a course in miracles' also claims that we create this flawed universe. that it is not God's doing because, well, it's flawed. the further premise is that we are in heaven but we are asleep having this dream that stems from a 'what if'. the what if part is 'what if we were separate from God', which then conjures up this universe and the ego etc. who knows? in moments of lucidity, something makes sense. right now i'm looking for 2"x2" x .125" wall square 6061-t6 aluminum tubing for my ultralight plane. i am bumming cause the guys in baltimore who i thought had it, really only have 6063.

'flawed' of course makes sense. language fails. does death, disease, impermanence etc etc conjure up images of perfection? not in my mind, and maybe that is where the trap lies.
lunk
The world is portrayed as flawed.
i don't think it is,
it's more like, corrupted.
If we knew, what we really is,
it would be uncorrupted.
It takes years of compulsorily education (indoctrination),
to keep an entity in the dark, for the rest of its' existence.
Few manage to escape,
and are seen as failures of this corrupt system.
Yet, it is the same essence in every individual,
that make us alive.

We see light, we are powered by electricity,
and we are made from all forms of matter.

We are each a universe unto ourselves
within a greater universe of our-self.

Not sure how ego fits in,
but it may be the corrupting factor.

Strange to contemplate,
but the universe and everyone in it, is transient and we are, each,
the only real permanence.

Yet, this is the way each of us experience it, and we think,
it is the other way around.

We are told that we are transient, within a fixed universe,
...that somehow wasn't completed and is flawed?!
Tamborine man
QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 17 2010, 02:12 PM) *
Ah, reincarnation and
the Earth seen as a matriarchal, entity generator
...mother?!

Those are some very strange beliefs.

i think i can see things a little differently.



Hi Lunk, sorry for the delay!

Another reason for this thread about 'Life after death' is the age old
question about whether this can be proved or not.

I have been working on this question for the last 28 years, and finally
think I will be able to do just that.

Not yet to everyone of course, but certainly to any person with above
average intelligence, who are honest, free, unbiased and able to think for her- or himself.

Naturally Life after death, by its very nature, cannot be proven by any scientific or
physical means because it will have to transcend the borders of the 3rd dimension.

Therefore the proof will have to be done through the Arts, which means that the
person or persons who receives the proof positively, will have to experience the
transition from 'belief' or 'opinion' into the (for some people) 'frightening' realm of
"certainty".

It will be this feeling of certainty then, which a person could experience, that in the
end shall constitute the final proof.

When Leonardo da Vinci applied for a job at the court of Milan in 1482, he wrote
perhaps the most outstanding employment application letter of all time.

To Ludovico Sforza, regent of Milan, he wrote:

"Most illustrious Lord, having now sufficiently seen and considered the proofs of all
those who count themselves master and inventors of instruments of war,
and findingthat their inventions and use of the said instruments does not differ in
any respect from those in common practice, I am emboldened without prejudice to
anyone else to put myself in communication with your Excellency, in order to
acquaint you with my secrets, thereafter offering myself at your pleasure effectually to
demonstrate at any convenient time all those matters which are in part briefly recorded
below."

Da Vinci proceeds to list 12 examples of his skills, of which I will quote the last 3:

".......
10. In time of peace I believe that I can give you as complete satisfaction as anyone
else in architecture, in the construction of buildings both public and private, and in
conducting water from one place to another.

11. Also I can execute sculpture in marble, bronze, or clay, and also painting, in which
my work will stand comparison with that of anyone else whoever he may be.

12. Moreover, I would undertake the work of the bronze horse, which shall endure with
immortal glory and eternal honor the auspicious memory of the Prince your father
and of the illustrious house of Sforza.

And if any of the aforesaid things should seem impossible or impracticalble to anyone,
I offer myself as ready to make trial of them in your park or in whatever place shall
please your Excellency, to whom I commend myself with all possible humility.

He got the job."

(Quoted from the wonderful book by Michael J. Gelb, "How to think like Leonardo da Vinci".)

In the same book, Gelb writes:
"Having read this far, you are already applying the first Da Vincian principle. Curiosità - the
quest for continuous learning - comes first because the desire to know, to learn, and to grow
is the powerhouse of knowledge, wisdom, and discovery.

If you are interested in thinking for yourself and freeing your mind from limiting habits and
preconceptions, then you are on track for the second principle: Dimostrazione. In his search
for Truth, Da Vinci insisted on questioning conventional wisdom. He used the word
'dimostrazione' to express the importance of learning for oneself, through practical experience."

So without false modesty, and with same humility, I too, like Da Vinci, will list my credentials
gathered the last 28 years, and as will be used to prove 'Life after death':

1. I Perfected geometrically Piet Heins Supercircle, and how it relates to The Great Pyramid
of Giza. (The unification of the circle and the square).
(Read chapter 6 in Martin Gardner's book, "The colossal book of mathematics". 2001.)

2. Solved and perfected Leonardo da Vinci's "The vitruvian man", and how it relates to the
Great Pyramid of Giza.

3. Solved the geometric pattern shown by the refraction photo of iridium atoms magnified a
million times by the use of the field ion microscope 1951, and how it relates to the Great
Pyramid of Giza. (Field ion microscope invented by Dr. Erwin W. Müller).

4. Solved the "Philosopher's Stone" and its true relationship to The Great Pyramid of Giza.
(Atalanta Fugiens, 1617).

5. Solved Le Corbusiers "The Modulor", that mademoiselle Elisa Maillard send to him in 1948,
And how it relates to the Great Pyramid of Giza.
Of which Le corbusier wrote in his book: "This sketch closes our investigation of the "Modulor" by
confirming the initial hypothesis."
And said further: "Here, the GODS play! I look on, wisely staying outside this garden of delights."

6. Solved the geometry of the Great Pyramid in Giza.

7. Found the true foundation beneath the Great Pyramid.

8. Found the secret chamber beneath the Great Pyramid.

9. Found the capstone or cornerstone, that is missing from the apex of The great Pyramid.

10. Solved the geometric proportions and ratios between the Earth, the Moon, and our Sun,
and their relationship to the Great Pyramid of Giza.

Initially, I will only use 2, 3, 4, 5 here as proof. If somebody is still with me after that, then
further submission of proof of the other points, will only take place through PM's to the
individuals participating.

The individuals will of course be totally free to comment publicly on this thread about his or her
views about what they have witnessed through our correspondance, but not free to pass on
the copy of drawings I will submit to them.

Do I get the job?

Are there anyone at all in this forum who surrounds themselves with just a whiff of "Excellency"
about them, and hence can answer in the confirmative?

Excitedly I'll await your replies!

Cheers
Tamborine man
"Curiosità", Leonardo da Vinci's first principle, is irrevocably connected to the
well-known schism that took place within the philosophical world around 150 years ago.

Philosophers Descartes and Hegel claimed that all true philosophy should start with doubt.

Contrary to this, Socrates and Kierkegaard maintained that all true philosophy should start
with wonder.

With his "curiosità", Da Vinci is obviously totally on the side with Socrates and Kierkegaard
as all thinking people should be, as it would be impossible the find Truth through doubt.
Doubt is therefore the bane of mankind.
Don't go there.
Wonder wonderfully instead.

Cheers
GroundPounder
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 20 2010, 06:15 AM) *
Hi Lunk, sorry for the delay!

Another reason for this thread about 'Life after death' is the age old
question about whether this can be proved or not.

I have been working on this question for the last 28 years, and finally
think I will be able to do just that.


seems ambitious, but the mystics are all quite convinced. now, whether they arrived there through the 'arts' is another question.
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 20 2010, 10:10 AM) *
seems ambitious, but the mystics are all quite convinced. now, whether they arrived there through the 'arts' is another question.


Well, they didn't, did they!

In the end of the sixties and the beginning of the seventies, the gentle "bible" amongst the hippies at that time,
was Kahlil Gibrans little book, " The Prophet". Another was Bach's "Jonathan Livingstone Seagull".
If you were a little bit stoned while reading these, you felt like flying, or at least some did.

In the end of "The prophet", Gibran writes:

".......
Forget not that I shall come back to you.

A little while, and my longing shall gather dust and foam for another body.

A little while, a moment of rest upon the wind, and another woman shall bear me.
......."

The hippies lost the battle against the awesome power of Darkness, and Gibran's "The prophet"
was soon 'forgotten'. The scientists took over, and nothing changed. Everything went back to normal.

Your reply, Groundpounder, seems to be just another extension of this 'normality' that has infested
the Earth since those quite exciting times, that sadly got 'lost' in the mire.

So you are out then, I gather??

Cheers anyway
GroundPounder
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 20 2010, 11:13 AM) *
So you are out then, I gather??

Cheers anyway


i think you drew the wrong conclusion. if you are out to change the world, i don't know what to tell you.
as far as normal goes, whose normal? do you do the walk on water thing?
GroundPounder
so t-man, you're telling me you can turn base metals into gold eh?
lunk
The universe is definitely geometric.
We exist, at present, in a changing geometry.
The smallest thing is the point, the largest thing is the sphere.
All shapes are made from points in space.
Yet, the smallest possible volume of space is the tetrahedron,
consisting of only 4 points.
The tetrahedron is found in all scales of nature,
from the theorized quark, to the shapes of galactic clusters.
Any sphere, seen from far enough away becomes a point.
Any point, magnified, can becomes a sphere.
We live on the surface of a sphere.
That is taken as flat, at our scale of size, we now know it is really a sphere,
but for most practical purposes must be looked at, as flat.
It seems that the universe is made of shapes,
containing volume at all scales.
Volume is space.
Length is the distance between two points.
Distance is a function of time.
As it takes time for information to get from one point to another.
The fastest speed there is is the speed of light.
The speed of light is a constant,
but it goes slower through glass,
and it goes fastest through the vacuum of space.
Clocks on mountain tops also run faster than clocks in the valleys.
Clocks on satellites run faster than clocks on the surface of the Earth, and must be synchronized regularly.
Time must be variable.
We are limited to our experience of the universe by time.
If we experience time at a different rate, in this universe,
existence would be limited, because natural disasters would be happening so frequently, that we would probably not have the time, to experience the universe, at this scale. If we experienced time moving slower, we would starve, waiting for the pumpkin to ripen.
We know the universe because of the rate of time, at our scale.
On the surface of the Earth curvature is so gentle that we see it as flat.
Satellites going around the Earth are on an even more gentler curvature.
An electron going around a proton, is a very intense curvature.
Yet at every scale a curvature seems to be flat.
It's all caused by the variability of time.
At every scale of the universe, time goes at a different rate.
But light, must always travel the same distance in a second.
This is the constant of the speed of light. 300,000 km/second.
At a smaller scale of size, time would be longer, a second would be longer
and the distance between two points, i think, should seem to increase.
The space between, for instance, the electron and the proton in very small,
but viewed from the scale of the atom, the time should be slower, and the distance would be vast.

As all things can be seen as made of a multitude of triangles from points, it is each one of us that gives this universe volume as each life form is, the fourth point, giving a volume to the universe.

If the universe goes on to infinity in all directions that makes every one, the exact center of the entire universe.

So perhaps, when we pass from this scale,
we move to another scale of time, which could be timelessness, compared to our present measure of time, in the universe.

Now, what was that about the pyramid?
I thought it was just an ancient power-plant of some kind.

Though, the big one in Egypt happens to be at the center of gravity of the largest continents on the side of the Earth, a great marker,
if this was somehow important.

And why are they aligned like the belt of Orion, and while do the letters in Nile, spell "line", and look, a bit, like the milky way?
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 20 2010, 10:28 AM) *
i think you drew the wrong conclusion. if you are out to change the world, i don't know what to tell you.
as far as normal goes, whose normal? do you do the walk on water thing?



It was a question, Groundpounder, and I'm very glad if you are still hanging on!

No I'm not here to change the world. I'm here to prove the total insanity and madness

that lies behind the killing, the murdering, the plundering and robbing of our fellow

human beings.

Yea, I do the walk on the water thing, when I walk in the rain. It does happen, sometimes.

Cheers
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 20 2010, 10:37 AM) *
so t-man, you're telling me you can turn base metals into gold eh?


Groundpounder, "The Philosopher's Stone" has absolutely nothing to do with turning

metal into gold. This 'joke' of an interpretation, is a much later corruption of the initial

meaning. Please check it out, if you Will.

Cheers

PS!
It was not for nothing, you know, that I mentioned 'Atalanta Fugiens, 1617'.
But there is much more to it than that, by the way!
Tamborine man
QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 20 2010, 11:35 AM) *
The universe is definitely geometric.
We exist, at present, in a changing geometry.
The smallest thing is the point, the largest thing is the sphere.
All shapes are made from points in space.
Yet, the smallest possible volume of space is the tetrahedron,
consisting of only 4 points.
The tetrahedron is found in all scales of nature,
from the theorized quark, to the shapes of galactic clusters.
Any sphere, seen from far enough away becomes a point.
Any point, magnified, can becomes a sphere.
We live on the surface of a sphere.
That is taken as flat, at our scale of size, we now know it is really a sphere,
but for most practical purposes must be looked at, as flat.
It seems that the universe is made of shapes,
containing volume at all scales.
Volume is space.
Length is the distance between two points.
Distance is a function of time.
As it takes time for information to get from one point to another.
The fastest speed there is is the speed of light.
The speed of light is a constant,
but it goes slower through glass,
and it goes fastest through the vacuum of space.
Clocks on mountain tops also run faster than clocks in the valleys.
Clocks on satellites run faster than clocks on the surface of the Earth, and must be synchronized regularly.
Time must be variable.
We are limited to our experience of the universe by time.
If we experience time at a different rate, in this universe,
existence would be limited, because natural disasters would be happening so frequently, that we would probably not have the time, to experience the universe, at this scale. If we experienced time moving slower, we would starve, waiting for the pumpkin to ripen.
We know the universe because of the rate of time, at our scale.
On the surface of the Earth curvature is so gentle that we see it as flat.
Satellites going around the Earth are on an even more gentler curvature.
An electron going around a proton, is a very intense curvature.
Yet at every scale a curvature seems to be flat.
It's all caused by the variability of time.
At every scale of the universe, time goes at a different rate.
But light, must always travel the same distance in a second.
This is the constant of the speed of light. 300,000 km/second.
At a smaller scale of size, time would be longer, a second would be longer
and the distance between two points, i think, should seem to increase.
The space between, for instance, the electron and the proton in very small,
but viewed from the scale of the atom, the time should be slower, and the distance would be vast.

As all things can be seen as made of a multitude of triangles from points, it is each one of us that gives this universe volume as each life form is, the fourth point, giving a volume to the universe.

If the universe goes on to infinity in all directions that makes every one, the exact center of the entire universe.

So perhaps, when we pass from this scale,
we move to another scale of time, which could be timelessness, compared to our present measure of time, in the universe.

Now, what was that about the pyramid?
I thought it was just an ancient power-plant of some kind.

Though, the big one in Egypt happens to be at the center of gravity of the largest continents on the side of the Earth, a great marker,
if this was somehow important.

And why are they aligned like the belt of Orion, and while do the letters in Nile, spell "line", and look, a bit, like the milky way?



Hi Lunk

Many good "points" in your post, but please take the following into account as well:

THE INTERSECTION OF 2 CURVES CAN NEVER CREATE A POINT.
ONLY WHEN 2 STRAIGHT LINES INTERSECT WILL A POINT OCCUR.
((Copyright Tamborine man 1989). Not intended for you, Lunk. Only for the crooks).

The fastest speed existing between 2 points is ZERO.

If you should ever pray from the deepest of your heart with absolute sincerity and unselfishness,
then you will receive an answer in the absolute instant.
Untold billions of people since the beginning of human existence have received such an answer.

It is not this "answer" that lays as foundation to the numerous religious and mythical movements
and sects that has been formed through the ages. These have all of them come into existence more
or less through human interpretations of what this "answer" meant. Other people who have never
prayed in their life, but only with lust for power, have taken advantage of and taken over these
various sects and religions, changed or altered the original texts and/or interpretations, all for their
own nefarious and ambitious purposes.
Others with perhaps good intentions, could also come to the conclusion to self-appoint themselves
to be the 'true' interpreter of the events and words that have been passed on, and in this way
completely change the original idea - as happened with f.ex. Paul of Tarsus.

"Time" itself does not exist as reality, but only as a concept and a help to immature mankind.

Only "the sequence of events" exist as total reality. "Time" as we know it, is supremely relative,
and as such will be experienced differently by people according to f.ex. age and maturity.

The clocks has in reality little to do with the concept of 'time' or the rhythm of 'time', but are merely
instruments to record units of interval by which the length of periods are divided.

Yes, The Great Pyramid in Giza is indeed a marvel to behold which transcend even the wildest
imagination of the individual, as you will see if you patiently hang on for a while longer.
I'm just waiting a little to see if others would like to join!

Cheers
GroundPounder
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 21 2010, 03:24 AM) *
It was a question, Groundpounder, and I'm very glad if you are still hanging on!

No I'm not here to change the world. I'm here to prove the total insanity and madness

that lies behind the killing, the murdering, the plundering and robbing of our fellow

human beings.

Yea, I do the walk on the water thing, when I walk in the rain. It does happen, sometimes.

Cheers


the madness part doesn't need proving to some, it seems self evident.

rain...good one smile.gif

for the record, i liked both the 'prophet', jonathan livingston seagull' and another bach book, 'illusions'. spent some time evaporating clouds as it were.
Tamborine man
QUOTE
the madness part doesn't need proving to some, it seems self evident.

rain...good one smile.gif

for the record, i liked both the 'prophet', jonathan livingston seagull' and another bach book, 'illusions'. spent some time evaporating clouds as it were.



Really nice comments there, GP. I might even be 'evaporating clouds' meself right now!

Thanks cheers.gif
lunk
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 22 2010, 11:05 PM) *
Hi Lunk

Many good "points" in your post, but please take the following into account as well:

THE INTERSECTION OF 2 CURVES CAN NEVER CREATE A POINT.
ONLY WHEN 2 STRAIGHT LINES INTERSECT WILL A POINT OCCUR.
((Copyright Tamborine man 1989). Not intended for you, Lunk. Only for the crooks).

The fastest speed existing between 2 points is ZERO.

If you should ever pray from the deepest of your heart with absolute sincerity and unselfishness,
then you will receive an answer in the absolute instant.
Untold billions of people since the beginning of human existence have received such an answer.

It is not this "answer" that lays as foundation to the numerous religious and mythical movements
and sects that has been formed through the ages. These have all of them come into existence more
or less through human interpretations of what this "answer" meant. Other people who have never
prayed in their life, but only with lust for power, have taken advantage of and taken over these
various sects and religions, changed or altered the original texts and/or interpretations, all for their
own nefarious and ambitious purposes.
Others with perhaps good intentions, could also come to the conclusion to self-appoint themselves
to be the 'true' interpreter of the events and words that have been passed on, and in this way
completely change the original idea - as happened with f.ex. Paul of Tarsus.

"Time" itself does not exist as reality, but only as a concept and a help to immature mankind.

Only "the sequence of events" exist as total reality. "Time" as we know it, is supremely relative,
and as such will be experienced differently by people according to f.ex. age and maturity.

The clocks has in reality little to do with the concept of 'time' or the rhythm of 'time', but are merely
instruments to record units of interval by which the length of periods are divided.

Yes, The Great Pyramid in Giza is indeed a marvel to behold which transcend even the wildest
imagination of the individual, as you will see if you patiently hang on for a while longer.
I'm just waiting a little to see if others would like to join!

Cheers


Ah, timelessness.
Where nothing ever happens.
Everything curves but never connects.
Even closeness is an illusion.

But the same is true with the cosmic zoom.
The more one looks into something the more space is found,
The further one looks out, into the universe the greater space there is too.
All the universe is is space, infinite empty space.
But what gives us substance?
Why do we think of solid things existing, if all there is is space?
And everything in it is made from space.
It's the illusion of time that makes things in our universe.
Like space, time is divisible to infinity, theoretically.
If one could fall into gravity forever, they would continue to accelerate, until
they were going the speed of light, where once again time stops.

How does one make anything out of infinite empty space?
Time.

i can't walk through walls because the space in the atoms of the wall have a slower time, like the atoms in me.
And when time stops, things stop moving,
giving the illusion of solidity of the wall.

Everything that exists physically is really slow time spots of empty space.
when time stops, things cease to exist, and are replaced by the infinite, empty space and consciousness knows it is alone in the universe.

i think this is known as the void.
Knowing of the infinite nothingness.
Tamborine man
QUOTE
Ah, timelessness.
Where nothing ever happens.
Everything curves but never connects.
Even closeness is an illusion.



Ah, timelessness.
Where everything happens and there's no tomorrow.
Everything curves and a beautiful connection occur.
Even closeness disappears in the moment two melt together.


Have you never been in love, Lunk?

I mean, .......really in love....... like what they all sing about!!

It's 3.45am. Gotta go to sleep.

will add more later.

Cheers
lunk
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 23 2010, 10:55 AM) *
Ah, timelessness.
Where everything happens and there's no tomorrow.
Everything curves and a beautiful connection occur.
Even closeness disappears in the moment two melt together.


Have you never been in love, Lunk?


Cheers


Love, the warmth
of knowing the first word, heard,
after the void.
...and the universe becomes a single continuous verse.
Tamborine man
QUOTE
Love, the warmth
of knowing the first word, heard,
after the void.
...and the universe becomes a single continuous verse.


Hi Lunk

I'll trial this first chapter here on you.

If it somehow stimulates your curiosity then you can find the 2nd and following chapters on this link,
and click on Ardors account.

Absolutely fascinating reading. It gets better and better and better. At least it did for me.
But then again, I got rid of my fears long time ago! happy.gif

http://www.vandrermodlyset.dk/uk/



".......
I GREET YOU IN THE NAME OF OUR GOD AND FATHER!
_____

I Ardor, have been sent to you by the Almighty to answer your questions, and I have promised to form my thoughts so that the words by which the thoughts are rendered
can be understood by human beings.

But I ask you to remember that the word is but the means whereby divine thought is revealed unto human beings; for many believe that the word is in God, and of God,
but this is not so. Words, in the form you know them, are of earthly origin. But the simpler the word, the more clearly will it convey the thought, which comes from God
and is in God - Thought - the source of all that is.





1. Has God Existed through all Eternity, and is God a Personal Being?

Through all eternity Darkness was everywhere. In the Darkness was the Light; in the Light were Thought and Will. But Thought and Will were not in the Darkness. In the
Light was the seed of all that is good, but in Darkness was the seed of all that is evil.
Unknown eternities passed. Slowly, Thought and Will were drawn toward each other. Slowly, the Light spread, it became brighter and purer. It was dawn.
Unknown eternities passed. Thought and Will drew more closely toward each other.

The Light spread more and more, it shone with radiant beauty.
It was morning.

Again, unknown eternities passed.
Thought and Will drew closer still toward each other.
The Light welled forth everywhere, it blazed clear, fair and glorious.
It was day.

Again, unknown eternities passed.
Thought and Will became united.
Then there arose from the Light, by the power of Thought-Will, a blazing figure, a spiritual Being - God.
But in the same moment God caused twelve radiant figures, spiritual beings, to emerge from the Light. And these became the Helpers of God, God's Servants.
And this was the beginning of time.
But no human being is, and no human being ever will be, able to gauge the eternities that have passed from the beginning of time until this day, your time.

When God arose from the Light, Darkness was vanquished, but not destroyed. By the power of Thought-Will, He brought Darkness under the concealing waves of the sea
of Light.
To separate and to purify the evil and the vile, God causes Darkness to flow through His flaming Being in eternally swirling waves. Slowly, Darkness diminishes, but when
that day will come when all evil and everything vile has been absorbed by the Light and purified by God's flaming Self is known unto Him alone, who is all-knowing.
When God arose from the Light, He was perfect - all-knowing, all-loving, almighty. And He endowed His Helpers with much knowledge, much love and much power.
By Thought and from the Light, He formed and created a vast Kingdom, perfect in its glory.
By Thought and from the Light, He formed and created abodes for Himself and for His Helpers.
Then God became the Creator.
But I can describe nothing of this Kingdom and of these abodes, nothing that can be comprehended by human beings. For compared with the glorious Kingdom of God
even the most beautiful place on Earth is misty and cold.


2. How did the Angels enter God's Kingdom and What Is Their Relationship to God?
.......

3. How and for What Purpose Did God Create the Globes of the Universe?
.......



Cheers
lunk
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 24 2010, 09:25 AM) *
But in the same moment God caused twelve radiant figures, spiritual beings, to emerge from the Light. And these became the Helpers of God, God's Servants.
And this was the beginning of time.

Bolded by me

Hmm, strange, this reminds me of the twelve stars on the EU flag?



Was the darkness a dark shade of blue, back then?
I hadn't thought of the EU, as the creator of the universe, before.
...perhaps they are just borrowing, an original idea.

i like the idea of thought, and will, coming together though.
GroundPounder
i kinda liked that...conjured up darth vader tossing the emperor over the edge and becoming anakin again.
Tamborine man
But did you click on the link, Lunk and GP?

Aren't you curious to find out who Ardor is!

Here one of the 12 Servants speak to mankind.

Note the powerful authoritative language, but also

note the pain concealed behind the words spoken -

please!





".......
As you sow, so you shall reap!

The Lord God the Almighty has sent me, His Servant and Harbinger, unto you, that my words, expounded by you, may reach all the peoples of the Earth.

Human beings! Your God, the Father of your spirit, bade me to speak unto you:
At the dawn of earthly time, God's youngest children promised their Father to restore that which their elder brothers and sisters had destroyed.
After many ages of suffering, grief and disappointment, they have now progressed so far by the power of their will, by the power of their love and with their Father's help,
that they have overcome Darkness, have delivered their eldest brother and won him back unto the Home and to the Light. But many aeons shall still pass, before they can
fully redeem their pledge: to lead you, God's very youngest children, unto His Kingdom of Glory. For not until the last among you is received into the Fatherly Home will the
work of love of the Youngest be fulfilled.
Human beings! Many aeons* must still pass, before you can meet with your Heavenly Father, before you can meet with Him who out of His profound compassion for those
created by His fallen children bestowed eternal life upon the human spirit. Many aeons must still pass before your journeying is ended, for you are as young children who
can see but cannot comprehend, who can hear but cannot fathom. As children you rejoice over the pretty-coloured fruits, but little are you concerned that the worm has
destroyed the flesh and the core. As children you are not able to discern between tinsel and gold, with eagerness and desire you reach for the gaudy tinsel that is of no
use, while you spurn the pure and precious ore.
Yea, you are less and worse than young children; for in your blind desire for earthly treasure, for power and honour, in your hatred and envy of one another you
unceasingly quarrel and wage war upon one another, you murder, rob and ravage and refuse to understand that the sufferings and the sorrows which you thereby bring
upon others, you also bring upon yourselves. Hard but just retribution will fall upon you, so long as you continue to abuse and disdain the gift which your Father has
bestowed upon you - the will to seek the good, the will to seek victory over evil; and so long as your will is for sin and misdeeds, for lies and for strife, then can the Will of
your Father not prosper among you.
Hear, all human beings! Your Father calls upon you, and through His Servant He asks of you:

When will you pass over the threshold of childhood?
When will you open your eyes and behold your imperfection?
When will you understand that you must be born unto the Earth again and again, that each earthly life can bring you nearer unto your God and Father?
When will you learn to follow your conscience and to heed the voice of truth, of love and of justice which speaks unto you?
When will you cease to deride those who are further advanced in knowledge?
When will you with understanding receive the children of the Light who suffer themselves to be born among you to draw you out of Darkness?
When will you learn to rejoice in that which is yours without envying your neighbour or taking his possessions from him?
When will you cease taking your own or your neighbour's earthly life by force or by negligence before that death and that hour is come that is pre-ordained for each of you
by the Lord God?
When will you cease the gruesome, bloody and blasphemous wars that are constantly waged among you?
When will you banish all racial hatred and learn to esteem and to love one another?
When will you let your own will meet with the Will of your Father?
And when, when will you - of whatever race you may be - all unite to bid a lasting peace welcome among you?

These questions your Father bade me to ask of you. What will be
your answer? For the future rests in your own hand; even as you desire it, even as you will it to be, so do you create your future and that of those who come after you.
If you continue to walk in the ways of Darkness, if you will not cease to hate and persecute one another; if you continue to suffer thousands upon thousands of your
brothers, husbands, fathers and sons to be slain in deadly warfare, so as to satiate your hatred and lust for power; if you continue to murder, rob, plunder, ravage and
burn, for ever tearing down what has been built up, and scattering that which has been gathered; then will your Father grieve over you; then will sorrows, sufferings and
disappointments hinder the Youngest in their work of love for you; then will your journey toward the distant goal become endlessly long and endlessly troubled.
But would you walk in the way of the Light that the eldest of the Youngest, your leader and guide, of his own free will has hereby shown you; would you lean upon the
hand which he offers you in love; would you receive with trust the message that is hereby presented unto you in the name of your Father, so as to bring you the clarity and
peace which you all desire; then will your Father rejoice in you; then will the children of the Light with greater joy suffer themselves to be born among you, to lead you out
of Darkness; then will your journey, though it become arduous and long, be shortened by many aeons of time. For then will the seeds which your Father has planted in
your hearts sprout in victory over Darkness, they will blossom and bear fruit. not ten, not twenty, nor even sixtyfold, but a thousand times a thousandfold!
Human beings! Choose now the ways that you and those after you shall walk in the time to come! Choose without constraint! For Almighty God compels no one, and none
shall compel his neighbour. But pray you all unto your Father to strengthen your will, that it may overcome evil and bring you forward toward the Light!
Human beings! Your Father yearns for you; He follows you through good and evil. He follows you through sorrow and joy, whether you walk in the deepest Darkness or in
the brightest Light. His love for you is beyond measure and His patience is without bound.

Human beings! Your Father yearns for you!
He bade me, His Servant, to bring unto all of you His
Fatherly Greeting.
His Peace be with you for ever and ever!
......."


Cheers


*) 1 eon in human terms, is about 3 million years.
GroundPounder
i did read it. is ardor like zeal, enthusiasm?
lunk
That's a fascinating story,
Sort of like an overview of the bible,
...and nearly as long.
it will take me a while longer to finish reading it all.


One of the greatest problems i have is getting my own ideas into words,
that can be easily understood.
Perhaps if i spun them into a story.

*****************************

Funny how "speed up" and "slow down",
both seem to sight a direction in altitude.
And altitude, is really a curvature of space.
And the greater the curvature the slower time proceeds,
while the lesser the curvature the faster time proceeds.
Yet, these words describe acceleration and de-acceleration.

Heaven is above, and hell below?

Perhaps it just slower and faster time.
The life energy is of a faster time,
yet the matter it inhabits is of a slower time.
And we are made of both.
We know that things, can sometimes go faster than one can see.

That is the nature of the life-energy,
if it can move at the speed of light,
then time for it, from our earthly experience of time,
has come to a relative standstill.

A curvature only exists in comparison with a lesser and greater curvature, forever, and that curvature, always appears flat and level, while you are in it.

i don't think i can copyright reality, through observation alone,
...unless i created it.
and even then...

...∞i∞...
GroundPounder
copyrights, copylefts...intellectual property...'don't take nothing with you but your soul' - will i get in trouble with ascap, riaa for using that string of characters?
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 23 2010, 09:09 AM) *
i did read it. is ardor like zeal, enthusiasm?




It could mean that i suppose, but then also add - passion!
Tamborine man
QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 23 2010, 09:50 AM) *
That's a fascinating story,
Sort of like an overview of the bible,
...and nearly as long.
it will take me a while longer to finish reading it all.


One of the greatest problems i have is getting my own ideas into words,
that can be easily understood.
Perhaps if i spun them into a story.

*****************************

Funny how "speed up" and "slow down",
both seem to sight a direction in altitude.
And altitude, is really a curvature of space.
And the greater the curvature the slower time proceeds,
while the lesser the curvature the faster time proceeds.
Yet, these words describe acceleration and de-acceleration.

Heaven is above, and hell below?

Perhaps it just slower and faster time.
The life energy is of a faster time,
yet the matter it inhabits is of a slower time.
And we are made of both.
We know that things, can sometimes go faster than one can see.

That is the nature of the life-energy,
if it can move at the speed of light,
then time for it, from our earthly experience of time,
has come to a relative standstill.

A curvature only exists in comparison with a lesser and greater curvature, forever, and that curvature, always appears flat and level, while you are in it.

i don't think i can copyright reality, through observation alone,
...unless i created it.
and even then...

...∞i∞...



If you keep reading Lunk, you'll find that the smallest particles of Darkness are larger than the biggest particles of Light.

And this is the reason why the vibrations of Darkness became slower than those of the Light, which caused the Darkness

to precipitate in the currents of the great purging circulation of Light.


Almost like the stones and pebbles on the bottom of the brook or the river, whose rushing waters on their various courses
slowly carry these along on the journey!

Cheers
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 23 2010, 12:16 PM) *
copyrights, copylefts...intellectual property...'don't take nothing with you but your soul' - will i get in trouble with ascap, riaa for using that string of characters?



Ahh, GP!

It never entered my mind that you could ever be a dishonest crook.

There's of course reason and logic behind the 'copyright' bit.

It's my intention, with the help of this new axiom, to prove that the pi

in your calculator is wrong.

Let me do this first, then you can do with the axiom whatever you like!

Cheers
lunk
Ardor sounds like "our door".
...or "hour door",
time door?

There are things that happen so fast, that we can only theorize them,
And other things that are so slow, we can't see the changes, but we know that they must be changing,
like a rock.

So far, this sounds to me very like the book, Urantia.
Tamborine man
QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 23 2010, 04:17 PM) *
Ardor sounds like "our door".
...or "hour door",
time door?

There are things that happen so fast, that we can only theorize them,
And other things that are so slow, we can't see the changes, but we know that they must be changing,
like a rock.

So far, this sounds to me very like the book, Urantia.



Its infinitely better. Infinitely more logic and lucid.

Keep reading, and if to the very end, you'll see and feel the infinite difference!

Time door? Or, .......Stargate!

GP is probably closer to the mark, so lets give it to him!

Cheers
GroundPounder
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 23 2010, 04:17 PM) *
Ahh, GP!

It never entered my mind that you could ever be a dishonest crook.

There's of course reason and logic behind the 'copyright' bit.

It's my intention, with the help of this new axiom, to prove that the pi

in your calculator is wrong.

Let me do this first, then you can do with the axiom whatever you like!

Cheers

lunk used the copyright word and i was playing off that. i don't endeavor to plagiarize anyones works.
the intent of course of the line cited from john lennon was something else.

when you mean pi, you mean 3.1415926535.... as being off by a little or a lot?

on your two curves can't touch in a point, that's counterintuitive. if you take two circles, one having it's center at the origin with a radius of 1, and another radius 1 circle centered at 2,0 then they'll touch at 1,1 . if the lines of the circles are infinitely thin, then any other point on those two circles can't be coincident, or am i missing something?

so the 12 are what? the signs of the zodiac?

i'm closer? give me what?

urantia, the title sounds familiar....

logic and lucidity, now that's a good combo!

i did have one thing that bothered me in what i read, about the military. suggesting that if one is conscripted not to argue and just go along. that just feels wrong on so many levels. consider it a character flaw.
lunk
i found the book urantia, a little unbelievable,
(which probably isn't as bad as believable),
certain things did not jive with what i have found to be true.

it appears we all, eventually, pass away from this universe,
...though i'd like to somehow, avoid that...
but really, i think, this universe passes away
from us, and the dream becomes
a lucid reality.
Tamborine man
QUOTE
lunk used the copyright word and i was playing off that. i don't endeavor to plagiarize anyones works.
the intent of course of the line cited from john lennon was something else.


I know.

QUOTE
when you mean pi, you mean 3.1415926535.... as being off by a little or a lot?

on your two curves can't touch in a point, that's counterintuitive. if you take two circles, one having it's center at the origin with a radius of 1, and another radius 1 circle centered at 2,0 then they'll touch at 1,1 . if the lines of the circles are infinitely thin, then any other point on those two circles can't be coincident, or am i missing something?


Yes. off by a little. But in the "big" scheme of things, it can turn out to be quite a considerable variation.

No you're not missing anything. In fact you're spot on.
The circle equals any curvature. Therefore the axiom applies also to any vibration, any wavelength and any oscillation
you can think of, both physical and transcendental.

Radios and beautiful thoughts would be unknown concepts, if a 'point' could exist on a curvature.

QUOTE
so the 12 are what? the signs of the zodiac?

i'm closer? give me what?


We could perhaps add the 12 hour day and 12 hour night! The 12 months! The 12 apostles!

QUOTE
urantia, the title sounds familiar....


Please click on the link Lunk provided for further info!

QUOTE
i did have one thing that bothered me in what i read, about the military. suggesting that if one is conscripted not to argue and just go along. that just feels wrong on so many levels. consider it a character flaw.


Please quote the whole paragraph in context, and we can go through it.
or as a shortcut, think about what the poor officer and members of the
firing squad would have to go through, then and for the rest of their lives,
when the obstinate deserter blindfolded is placed in front of the wall!



Cheers
GroundPounder
QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Apr 24 2010, 02:36 AM) *
Please quote the whole paragraph in context, and we can go through it.
or as a shortcut, think about what the poor officer and members of the
firing squad would have to go through, then and for the rest of their lives,
when the obstinate deserter blindfolded is placed in front of the wall!



Cheers


that's one scenario...
lunk
If it wasn't for the space, around a point,
there would be,
no point.
Though, we see it as the points defining space.
a point is of infinite curvature.
Yet, science talks of the curvature of space-time,
not the point.
Smaller circles within smaller circles lead, eventually,
down to a point.
But this could go on, in scale forever, each point becoming a circle.
or in reality, a sphere.
So, the smallest thing in our universe is the point, which is really a sphere on a different scale, outside of our universe.
As a point shows position but has no area, or volume.
Because the point is the smallest thing possible in our universe,
anything smaller then a point would not exist, in our universe,
but it must exist, somewhere.
Theoretically, this could go on to infinity,
smaller spheres within spheres, forever.
The opposite should be true too,
the Earth becomes a point when seen afar in space.
The universe could be seen as a point too, from far enough away,
though, it ought to be, pretty dark.

What still exists, outside of time?
potential energy?
gravity?
electrical charge?
pointlessness?
Tamborine man
QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 24 2010, 01:17 AM) *
i found the book urantia, a little unbelievable,
(which probably isn't as bad as believable),
certain things did not jive with what i have found to be true.

it appears we all, eventually, pass away from this universe,
...though i'd like to somehow, avoid that...
but really, i think, this universe passes away
from us, and the dream becomes
a lucid reality.



Very nicely put, Lunk,

thanks and

cheers
Tamborine man
QUOTE
What still exists, outside of time?
potential energy?
gravity?
electrical charge?
pointlessness?



It will all be explained if you keep reading, Lunk.

I hope you Will!

Cheers
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 24 2010, 09:08 AM) *
that's one scenario...



What about emigrating or escaping or fleeing then, to another country

that hasn't got compulsory military service!!

Or get oneself some kind of disability or illness by "accident" perhaps?

I've heard that happened a lot!

cheers
GroundPounder
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.html

why should i run?

why should i lie?
Tamborine man
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Apr 25 2010, 12:39 AM) *
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.html

why should i run?

why should i lie?



Well, you shouldn't lie, of course.

Einstein wisely went to USA. Whether you would call it 'emigrated' or 'fled',
is neither here nor there.

He probably recalled the old saying: "When in Rome, do as the romans do",
- found that this was not really what he wanted to, and left.

If you stay, then the best you can do is help educate the population so that
they no longer chose unworthy leaders and lawgivers who obviously do not
have the best interest and well-being of the people in mind, but more serve
themselves!
lunk
i am still of of the mind that there is only one consciousness,
at every level of awareness.
Like an intuitive level of thinking,
above the normal, within each of us.

Like rays from the sun,
each is an individualization
of the the same source.

The same center of the universe.
experiencing our universe,
from the individual perspective of all living things.

time for some music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPVBf2NywW0
Tamborine man
QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 26 2010, 01:03 PM) *
i am still of of the mind that there is only one consciousness,
at every level of awareness.
Like an intuitive level of thinking,
above the normal, within each of us.

Like rays from the sun,
each is an individualization
of the the same source.

The same center of the universe.
experiencing our universe,
from the individual perspective of all living things.

time for some music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPVBf2NywW0



I'm definitely of the same Mind too.

Your Love is as Good as my Love.

For how could it ever be otherwise.

Love IS Love.

No if's - no bit's - no but's.



Ahhh ....... the Music!
Tamborine man
Hej Lunk,

you have probably seen this before, but please
pay special attention to the beautiful 'supercircle'
at 00.35 sec. into the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkox6niJ1Wc


More on this subject later.

Cheers
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