Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Nuclear Disaster Unfolding In Fukushima
Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum > Study > Global Perspectives, Chemtrails vs Contrails, Geoengineering, Etc
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
bill
This getting worse every day


http://allthingsnuclear.org/tagged/Japan_nuclear







bill
from George Ure at Urbansurvival today

http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

We have a source, who we can only identify as an expat highly placed editor in Japanese media who has informed us of the (criminal) charade going on.



On Tuesday, his key Japanese media outlet, while reporting on the "situation being in hand" was quickly evacuating its staff to either Hong Kong, or Sydney, Australia. He was given a timeframe in which to gather critical data for the media's product and was to be helicoptered to an island in southern Japan where a corporate plane would move him - and other members of this key media outlet - to foreign shores.



All the while his publication was reporting "normal" conditions for the populace. So first point: Japanese media are complicit in the cover-up of the data.
bill
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/as...amp;_r=1&hp


The sharp deterioration came after a frantic day and night of rescue efforts focused largely on the No. 2 reactor. There, a malfunctioning valve prevented workers from manually venting the containment vessel to release pressure and allow fresh seawater to be injected into it. That meant that the extraordinary remedy emergency workers had jury-rigged to keep the nuclear fuel from overheating no longer worked.

As a result, the nuclear fuel in that reactor was exposed for many hours, increasing the risk of a breach of the container vessel and more dangerous emissions of radioactive particles.

By Tuesday morning, Tokyo Electric Power said that it had fixed the valve and resumed seawater injections, but that it had detected possible leaks in the containment vessel that prevented water from fully covering the fuel rods.

Then an explosion hit that reactor. After a series of conflicting reports about what level of damage was inflicted on the reactor after that blast, Mr. Edano, the chief cabinet secretary, said, “there is a very high probability that a portion of the containment vessel was damaged.”
lunk


http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsanim/world/

The bigger the square, the greater the shake.
bill
eta link


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...tion-alert.html

Disaster: A satellite picture shows the remains of four reactors. By last night three of them had been hit by explosions while one had caught fire


Johnny Angel
Beyond Nuclear.Org.

The danger of the Nuclear waste pools losing thier cooling water containment
building is more of a problem than the reactors itself.The Japanese have this
spent Fuel waste inside these plants, and they cant get it from under controll.

1000 of tons of spent fuel waste, just waiting to overheat & explode.

I remember hearing about the danger of the Nuclear waste storage back when
Reagan Bombed Libya, and there were rumors that a Terrrorist Suicide swat team
would Hijack a passenger jet and crash into a Nuclear Power plant.

I didnt understant it at the time, but a USAF Officer said it would be a much
biiger disaster if the HiJacked Jet struck the tons of waste in cold waterstorage,
than actually hitting the Massive containment bldg wiith only a few hundred
pounds of fuel.

I first suspected 911 was an inside job when the HiJacked Jets didnt target Nuke Waste,
which would of affected the USA 1000 times worse than WTC collapse.
DoYouEverWonder
QUOTE


Heavy fallout from Japan nuclear scandal

September 2, 2002


TOKYO, Japan (CNN) -- The president, vice president and chairman of Japan's largest utility are quitting following a nuclear safety scandal, along with two advisers.

The Monday announcements came after Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) admitted last week that it may have failed to accurately report cracks at its nuclear reactors in the late 1980s and 1990s.

The company and the Japanese government are probing whether workers covered up reports of the cracks.

TEPCO is suspected of falsifying 29 cases of safety repair records.

The company's nuclear reactor is the world's largest, and will be shut down temporarily along with four others for urgent safety checks.

Japan's nuclear power industry provides a third of the country's electrical power, and has been criticized for other accidents in recent years.

'No room for excuses'

TEPCO shares skidded again on Monday after two weeks of declines, ending down more than 2 percent at the close.

"There is no room for excuses," TEPCO President Nobuya Minami said on Monday, as he announced he would leave his post in mid-October.

"I deeply regret the incident and cannot apologize enough for it."

Minami said he would reveal in mid-September the results of TEPCO's probe.

Chairman Hiroshi Araki, Vice President Toshiaki Enomoto and advisers Shoh Nasu and Gaishi Hiraiwa will step down at the end of September.

"What I thought was impossible has actually occurred," Minami said this weekend, according to the Asahi Shimbun.

"As I failed to perceive it, I think managerial responsibility lies with me."
'Unacceptable'

Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) vice minister Seiji Murata said that Trade Minister Takeo Hiranuma branded the company's actions as "unacceptable."

"It betrayed the public's trust over nuclear energy," Hiranuma told Murata.

METI says it has evidence of false inspection records, with the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency saying that up to eight reactors may still be running with unfixed cracks, though the cracks don't pose an immediate threat.

The company is conducting an inquiry of its own, and has submitted a list of 29 cases of possible cover-ups of cracks on the core of 13 nuclear reactors, at three plants.
GE tests

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency inspects nuclear plants in Japan every 13 months, checking the cooling system and other essential parts.

But it leaves the inspection of the shrouds and pumps around the core to the company, which is required to report flaws.

TEPCO contracted its testing to General Electric International Inc., GE's Japan subsidiary. Local media report that cracks were found on the reactor shrouds.

Defective shrouds, important nonfuel parts of a reactor, are normally replaced in Japan but may be repaired in the United States or Europe, or even left alone if the cracks aren't serious.

A GE insider reportedly informed the Ministry of International Trade and Industry as far back as July 2000.

GE officials then approached Minami in March about launching an investigation into possible false reporting.
Misconduct

GE workers inspected the shrouds while TEPCO workers were present. TEPCO workers then may have failed to report cracks to senior officials, the Nikkei Weekly reports, because they determined they were not significant.

TEPCO stock was down 2.04 percent at 2,395 yen at the close Monday, underperforming the broad Topix, which was off 1.2 percent. Though the possible cover-up has been long running, TEPCO has dropped about 10 percent in the last two weeks.

The scandal comes amid a lengthening list of corporate misconduct in Japan.

The Nikkei reported on Monday that Mitsui & Co. President Shinjiro Shimizu and Chairman Shigeji Ueshima are under pressure to resign.

They are likely to step down to take responsibility over alleged bribes by Mitsui workers to a Mongolian official, to win an order on a diesel-power facility there.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia...epco/index.html
tumetuestumefaisdubien
When I read the measurements then it looks to me be more a bit like a disinfo scandal than a "disaster".
Omega892R09
QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 13 2011, 05:21 PM) *
When I read the measurements then it looks to me be more a bit like a disinfo scandal than a "disaster".

And let's face it, corporate misconduct is not unique to Japan.

Slightly OT but nuclear science related I wonder how the Super-Kamiokande neutrino detection facility faired, see in The Unbearably Unstoppable Neutrino. The location of this facility is some distance from the worst affected zones but I wonder how delicate the photomultiplier tubes are.
lunk
QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Mar 16 2011, 03:33 AM) *
And let's face it, corporate misconduct is not unique to Japan.

Slightly OT but nuclear science related I wonder how the Super-Kamiokande neutrino detection facility faired, see in The Unbearably Unstoppable Neutrino. The location of this facility is some distance from the worst affected zones but I wonder how delicate the photomultiplier tubes are.


Good point.
The neutrino detectors world wide should be more active.
GroundPounder
QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 14 2011, 01:49 PM) *
The neutrino detectors world wide should be more active.


unless they are designed for solar as opposed to terrestrial origin. just a thought.
Omega892R09
I don't know if any have seen these yet but worth a look, also check out the News Update and Current Status of Facilities link upper right:

Modified version of original post written by Josef Oehmen
lunk
QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Mar 16 2011, 02:40 PM) *
I don't know if any have seen these yet but worth a look, also check out the News Update and Current Srtatus of Facilities link upper right:

Modified version of original post written by Josef Oehmen


Hmmm, that reads like everything is under control.

...why do i feel like i need my own Geiger counter.


From George Ure at

http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

QUOTE
At least, insofar as the magnetometer readings about the government/University of Alaska High Altitude Atmospheric Project, a/k/a HAARP which, as you may recall from our earlier discussions, uses a huge steerable HF radio transmitter system which is powered with a roughly 2-megawatt powerplant which, given the size of their antenna array, pumps many megawatts (if not gigawatts) of effective radiated power (ERP) into the ionosphere for "research".

So powerful is the radiation off the HARP site, that they even have their own local radar to augment other radar coverage so that aircraft in the area aren't inadvertently damaged. In other words, lotsa, lotsa power.

Over the years, a lot of crackpot theories have developed around HAARP, but it's always been conjecture based on the magnetometers since I've been unable to locate the critical data needed to interpret whether HAARP was causative to some of the odd phenomena afoot in the world today, like bird kills, out-of-place earthquakes, and the like, or whether it was coincident to anomalous events.


(there is an interesting chart there too, comparing times of Earthquakes in Japan to pulses from HAARP.)
albertchampion
what can you tell me about radiation? how is it measured? and what gadgets measure it?

the geiger counter?

here is why i ask. recently, there was an article in the nyt concerning the effluent of hydrofracking in the marcellus shale formation. one of the features of that effluent was a high level of radioactivity.

which interested me. as i have always wondered what level of radioactivity occured in crude oil, natural gas.

some pooh-pooh the existence of radioactivity in crude, nat gas, but, if there is radioactivity in the effluent of fracking in nat gas/crude shall payzones, wouldn't there be radioactivity in all hydrocarbons extracted?

and if that is the case, how is that radioactivity zeroed out? and if it is there and not zeroed out in the refining process, does it then enter into the refining products[i.e., gasoline]?

if you were to stand by your gas tank inlet with a geiger counter while pumping gasoline would you hear any indication of radioactivity?
Omega892R09
QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 15 2011, 12:53 AM) *
Hmmm, that reads like everything is under control.

Well maybe.

It seems that the Daily Kos has more to say.

The danger in the fuel storage pools was something not appreciated when this started to unfold where the reactor core melting, core on the floor in the parlance, was an eventuality catered for in the design of the reactors where the core is a quite a small part in the centre and low down.

The magnitude of the quake and the hight of the tsunami had unfortunately not been anticipated back when the site was designed. We know much more about plate tectonics now than we did then. Generation II reactors are nothing like the later generations now running let alone those under development.
tumetuestumefaisdubien
New video from Fukushima taken from TEPCO copter:

what a mess... rolleyes.gif
new radiation measurements here
Omega892R09
QUOTE (albertchampion @ Mar 15 2011, 04:31 AM) *
what can you tell me about radiation? how is it measured? and what gadgets measure it?

Seemingly such a simple question but measuring radiation has varied approaches depending on what you are doing, want to do and what is happening.

Workers in areas where there is a significant radiological hazard wear dosimeters of which I was once familiar with the film badge type also various detection powders that would be spread in a suspect area. Also others for chemhaz.

We used to practice NBCD (nuclear, biological and chemical decontamination) on a regular basis and I was for awhile on the decontam squad at a major FAA (Fleet Air Arm) airfield. We also practiced at sea on carriers. It is most interesting trying to carry on aircraft operations, down below in the hangar or on the flight deck, whilst togged up in NBCD suits, in fact it is bloody dificult. Even then we practiced at rotating squads into and out of work areas (from the citadel) so as to keep everyone's dose to safe(ish) levels. But we knew for sure that in a real hot war we would be expendable as a matter of course.

Here is some useful info:

Measuring Radiation
Ricochet
QUOTE (albertchampion @ Mar 16 2011, 10:31 PM) *
what can you tell me about radiation? how is it measured? and what gadgets measure it?

the geiger counter?



One major problem is that a geiger counter is useless in detecting something far more sinister than radioactivity. That is plutonium. They loaded MOX fuel into reactor # 3.
QUOTE
MOX fuel loaded into Tokyo Electric's old Fukushima reactor
Sunday 22nd August, 05:36 AM JST

http://www.berthold.com/downloadfiles/rp/e...ns99_lb6414.pdf

FUKUSHIMA —
Tokyo Electric Power Co loaded plutonium-uranium mixed oxide fuel Saturday into a reactor at its nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture in preparation for the largest Japanese utility’s first plutonium-thermal power generation.

The No. 3 reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 plant would be the third in Japan to be used for the so-called pluthermal generation, but the only one among the three to have been subjected to antiaging treatment with 34 years since its launch. Pluthermal output has already begun at the No. 3 reactor of Kyushu Electric Power Co’s Genkai plant in Saga Prefecture and the No. 3 reactor of Shikoku Electric Power Co’s Ikata plant in Ehime Prefecture.


source Kyodo

MOX fuel is a plutonium / uranium mixed oxide. Potassium iodide pills will help block the radioactive fallout but does zip against plutonium. # 3 reactor ain't doing so good these days.
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/...1300350525P.pdf


QUOTE
Plutonium
Plutonium was discovered in 1941 by Dr. Glenn T. Seaborg and Edwin McMillan, Kennedy, and Wahl by deuteron bombardment of uranium in the 60-inch cyclotron of the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley, but the discovery was kept secret. It was named after the planet Pluto, having been discovered directly after Neptunium. (Pluto is the next planet out after Neptune).

The metal has a silvery appearance and takes on a yellow tarnish when slightly oxidized. It is chemically reactive. A relatively large piece of plutonium is warm to the touch because of the energy given off in alpha decay. Larger pieces will produce enough heat to boil water. The metal readily dissolves in concentrated hydrochloric acid, hydroiodic acid, or perchloric acid. The metal exhibits six allotropic modifications having various crystalline structures. The densities of these vary from 16.00 to 19.86 g/cm3.

The most important isotope of plutonium is 239Pu, with a half-life of 24,200 years. Because of its short half-life, there are only extremely tiny trace amounts of plutonium naturally in uranium ores.
It is produced in extensive quantities in nuclear reactors from natural uranium: 238U(n, gamma) --> 239U--(beta) --> 239Np--(beta) --> 239Pu. Fifteen isotopes of plutonium are known.

Applications

Plutonium is a key fissile component in modern nuclear weapons; care must be taken to avoid accumulation of amounts of plutonium which approach critical mass, the amount of plutonium which will self-generate a nuclear reaction. Despite not being confined by external pressure as is required for a nuclear weapon, it will nevertheless heat itself and break whatever confining environment it is in. Shape is relevant; compact shapes such as spheres are to be avoided.

Plutonium could also be used to manufacture radiological weapons. The plutonium isotope 238Pu is an alpha emitter with a half life of 87 years. These characteristics make it well suited for electrical power generation for devices which must function without direct maintenance for timescales approximating a human life time. It is therefore used in RTGs such as those powering the Galileo and Cassini space probes. Plutonium-238 was used on the Apollo-14 lunar flight in 1971 to power seismic devices and other equipment left on the Moon, and it was also the power supply of the two Voyager supercraft launched in 1977.

Plutonium-239 can also be used as a fuel in a new generation of fast-breeder nuclear weapons, which burn a mixed oxide (MOX) fuel consisting of uranium and plutonium.



Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/...m#ixzz1Gt27b5BW
tumetuestumefaisdubien
QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Mar 17 2011, 06:58 AM) *
Here is some useful info:

Measuring Radiation

this is also useful:

and here in perspective of Fukushima:

EDIT: I think only dangerous "fallout" is that Germany chancellor Merkel now announced they'll stop operation of 7 oldest reactors - which would put out of grid ~7000 MW netto - this can blackout the EU grid, which now is working already at the edge of its long range transfer cappacity. I wonder how the politicians could be so corrupted and play into the cards of the ekoterrorists and fossil lobby so openly. Her predecessor Gerhard Schroeder now sitts in the Gazprom and takes big sallaries, because he pushed through the German nuclear phase-out.
tumetuestumefaisdubien
according to last measurements -if we would believe them, the radioactivity starts to go consistently down, which would suggest the contamination further from the dammaged reactor buildings is largely just by shortlived isotopes - which would be good news, because the solid long half-life isotopes persist much longer in the environment. Current values measured at the west gate -in direction to inland- are ~270 microSieverts which is a value comparable to radioactivity values of a smoke from a coal powerplant and pose no immediate risk even relatively close to the plant. So if the TEPCO measurements are real, then we probably can see soon the burst of this carefuly maintained "disaster" global media bubble so welcomed by the professional activists, their quillible followers and to political servants of the fossil lobby - as for example in the Germany, where now the prime minister A. Merkel wants to close the 7 nuclear plants and where the last prime minister G. Schroeder ended on the well paid post in the pipeline company Nordstream (nominated by Gazprom to which he negotiated the German state guarantees and at the same time the phase-out of the german nuclear plants - the competitor to the dirty fossil bussiness revenues and power), instead of ending in the jail for corruption and conflict of interest.

EDIT: here an article from Scientific American about the radioactivity emited by coal plants
Omega892R09
QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 15 2011, 07:37 PM) *
EDIT: I think only dangerous "fallout" is that Germany chancellor Merkel now announced they'll stop operation of 7 oldest reactors - which would put out of grid ~7000 MW netto - this can blackout the EU grid, which now is working already at the edge of its long range transfer cappacity. I wonder how the politicians could be so corrupted and play into the cards of the ekoterrorists and fossil lobby so openly. Her predecessor Gerhard Schroeder now sitts in the Gazprom and takes big sallaries, because he pushed through the German nuclear phase-out.

Yeah! This is a message that should be promoted loud and clear. What is unfolding in politics and the media is the usual travesty of any truth.

I am pleased I have now got a copy of Nuclear Renaissance: Technologies and Policies for the Future of Nuclear Power

Nuttall covers the whole gamut of issues WRT generating electricity including policy, technology, design, waste classification and disposal, storage of part spent fuel - short and longer term (a complex topic on its own but one which has inherent safety built in) with pathways to re-use in different reactor types. Nuttall also provides a clear background to power grid issues to do with other forms hydro, coal fired, gas fired and how they relate. Not so much on renewables but this book was published in 2005 so an updated edition should be in the pipeline.

Nuttall also describes the disastrous decisions made because of regulatory shenanigans involving all parties including the baleful NIMBY (not in my back yard) effect of the well heeled who purchased property in The Hamptons, Long Island, which caused the long delayed Shoreham plant to peremptorily shut down having been given the go ahead to power up the reactor which impacted on the cost of decommissioning. What madness. thumbdown.gif

One factor that impacted prominently on the delay to Shoreham was the decision, to save a few dollars, to chose back up diesel generators from a source other than the one known to deliver reliable products. So after the first set repeatedly failed with broken crankshafts, fixes for which also failed, the reputable supplier was engaged after all at the cost of much wasted time, allowing often ill founded, regulatory pressures to kick in and an increase in capital costs. This one is certainly a lesson in 'how not to do it'!

Nuttall is well worth looking up for those who are unaware of the power generation scenario.

I recall back in the early 1990s whilst I was engaged in software development a colleague had produced a nicely modeled simulation of a UK power grid complete with a full variety of power generation plant types and the aim was to balance the grid over time with changing conditions in demand and also supply with water having to be pumped uphill at off peak times and nuclear reactors being powered up and down. It was aimed at school children and ran on computers then prevalent in UK schools. It was a quite brilliant piece of works and commissioned by the Electricity Generating Board (of the UK). I remember demonstrating this software (for about 4 days) at a large annual educational trade fair.

As it is much of the general public don't know that different forms of radiation exist, alpha, beta, and gamma let alone why the difference is important! What is more I cannot see any evidence of any attempt by the powers that be to enlighten people.
Omega892R09
And then we have this cretin creature poking fun at the Japanese for being hit by a quake and tsunami, I knew he was low but this just goes way below any sense of propriety:

Rush Amused That Earthquake Hit Environmentally Conscious Country

my dog has more compassion than that jerk. Why does he still get paid for this shit? angry.gif America is sicker than I thought. lame.gif
GroundPounder
ok what am i missing here. the chart from:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/imag...b-RADIATION.jpg

shows that '11.9 millisieverts/hour was the highest recorded value at the plants perimeter'

normal background radiation for a whole year is ~300 millirem (depending on where you are)

thats 3 millisieverts/yr

so at the perimeter it is : ((11.9/3) x 24 x 365) = 34748 times normal. anybody want to check my math?


as far as omegas comment goes, is the sickness of some of america new to you?

edit:

limbaugh is a hypocrite from way back. he was advocating jail for drug abusers while he was popping oxycontin like candy.
Omega892R09
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Mar 16 2011, 11:06 AM) *
as far as omegas comment goes, is the sickness of some of america new to you?

Nope!
bobcat46
QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Mar 16 2011, 10:19 AM) *
And then we have this cretin creature poking fun at the Japanese for being hit by a quake and tsunami, I knew he was low but this just goes way below any sense of propriety:

Rush Amused That Earthquake Hit Environmentally Conscious Country

my dog has more compassion than that jerk. Why does he still get paid for this shit? angry.gif America is sicker than I thought. lame.gif



And getting sicker every day. What is sickining is that people actually listen to that Slimeball and think that he is some kind of expert with supreme knowledge. He is nothing but an entertainer, a very sick one at that, that is doing great harm to America spreading his hate. And then there is Glen Beck that has totally driven off into a garbage ditch. Only the most stupid of the stupid listen to Beck and Slimeball. Hard to believe that Faux News still keeps Beck on the channel. His viewership is decreasing from month to month (a very good thing).
bill
US Military evacuating Japan

U.S. Navy Capt. Eric Gardner, commander of the U.S. Naval Air Facility in Atsugi, Japan, explains how it's going to work.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/0...hursdays-latest


IslandPilot
tume:
Thanks for this useful chart.

It helps to put these things into perspective. Eventually some of this "truth" will leak out.

As Americans, we are not very familiar with "metric system" terms ie, "millli" vs. "micro". It is easy to Baffle most citizens with these terms. And then "rems" and "sieverts" only adds to the confusion.

Of course this collective "ignorance" is cleverly used to fuel the fire of dis-information. In time, the Truth may be able to extinguish the fire... probably not though.

Only through EDUCATION and proper "reasoning" thought processes, can the TRUTH become known. And that's is why we are all here today, to EDUCATE ourselves about 9/11, and then spread the Truth.

Thanks again to "tume" a TRUTH Educator and Warrior! thumbsup.gif
bill
Obama said yesterday :“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and public health experts do not recommend people in the U.S. take precautionary measures beyond staying informed.”

meanwhile he ordered the Atsugi Navy base just south of Tokyo to be immediately evacuated "Women and children first"



But I'm sure that is just precautionay Tume

The US military does these emergency evacuations all the time for no particular good reason

They think that they will start out evacuating 10,000 per day but will try ot get it up to 18,000

not that there is any urgency ....
bill
"So if the TEPCO measurements are real"


a very big if

and apparently the US Navy isn't buying it

"The Navy said Thursday afternoon it would start evacuating families from Naval Air Facility Atsugi and Yokosuka Naval Base, near Tokyo. A few hours later, officials at Misawa Air Base, in northern Japan, did the same. Camp Zama, a U.S. Army facility near Tokyo, said it was allowing families and non-essential workers to voluntarily leave.
In a radio address Thursday afternoon, Col. Otto Feather, 374th Airlift Wing commander, said he expects Yokota Air Base to join the list soon."

http://santabarbaracriminalcourtcorruption...ugi-begins.html

Atsugi is a critical Navy support base for the carrier groups in the Pacific

evacuating the base is a dead serious action
bill
I have been monitoring CNN for the last hour

no mention of the base evauations in Japan
tumetuestumefaisdubien
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Mar 18 2011, 02:06 AM) *
ok what am i missing here. the chart from:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/imag...b-RADIATION.jpg

shows that '11.9 millisieverts/hour was the highest recorded value at the plants perimeter'

normal background radiation for a whole year is ~300 millirem (depending on where you are)

thats 3 millisieverts/yr

so at the perimeter it is : ((11.9/3) x 24 x 365) = 34748 times normal. anybody want to check my math?

Yeah the number really looks scary, as looked scary the peak 400 miliSieverts/h measured in one moment at the plant when the No4 was on fire. At that moment it really scared everybody, including me and I was fervently communicating with my friend at BNL to assess what could it mean. The point is that this looks to be just momentary peak values, which I suspect being a result of the momentarily dispersed debris in the measured zone, because the measurement is quite inconsistent with the rest of the measurements and the last values I've seen at the perimeter are not ~12 miliSieverts, but like 263.5 microSieverts/h which is 45 times less and it looks like it is consistently going down for more than one day after they started with the external cooling - so the dangerous things no more are massively dispersed in the air by heat. So if now we take your figure we come to 770 times normal, which if the trend of ~2 microSievert/hour (from the last data) decline continues and will be straightened by active removal and containing of the contaminated debris then it would get to values relatively close to normal background in just days-weeks. It is also good to consider that the contamination theoretically diminishes exponentially with the distance from the source and there is fortunately still the west wind, so most probably even more steeply.

On the other hand in fact there are still reported measurements of ~20 miliSieverts from inside the plant's perimeter, which still pose almost immediate danger for the people coping with the plant and can seriously complicate their effort, because nobody should be exposed to more than 50 miliSieverts at a time and 100 mSv cummulatively.

This is serious situation, nobody says it isn't, but it's not an end of world.

Impotant is the immediate risk of further explosions diminishes in the time as the short-lived radionuclides decay, so I think now the situation is definitely much better than several days ago and if there will nothing really unpredictable happen as another major quake over 7R I think the dangerous situation could be contained in matter of weeks and from my brief calcullations based on current measurements with negligible effects for the environment over ~3km from the plant, where I think no active decontamination would be needed and the people could return there immediately after the plant restores cooling cappacity and the run-out risk will be diminished to virtually zero.

I very much think the whole overkill with the 20 km evacuation zone +10km recommended curfew, which even in the overregulated west would most probably be not ordered, made more problems then it solved, especially when we consider in what a humanitary situation after the real disaster of the quakes and tsunamis the evacuation was ordered, and I'm almost sure, that this decision costed not just vainly wasted resources which were needed elsewhere, but I'm afraid even some lives of the overstressed people. Here we see the panic reasoning is very bad if one wants to cope with the serious situations and the scaremongering media push can seriously hamper the rational rescue efforts.
But I don't judge nobody from the japanese government, I think the situation is overwhelmingly complex to cope with and I think they do relatively bravely - if you just say compare it for example to the US govt. response to Katrina... Whom I even more don't like after this event are most of the mainstream media with their catastrophic fearmongering coverages with the obligate queer pundits disseminating their scary whatifs, which as we see were joined in their panic-making by many of the alternative medias. I think the journalism ethics again showed to be declining considerably.
GroundPounder
QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 16 2011, 07:33 PM) *
... but it's not an end of world.


i'm not sure i used those words...

nevertheless, there are lots of isotopes that are not short lived and will pose a problem for some time to come, cs-137 (which they detected and gets taken up by vegetation and eaten by animals) , sr-90, co-60 and all the rest. i read somewhere that the germans(?, poles maybe) had to kill wild boars because they had eaten truffles polluted by cs-137 from the chernobyl disaster.

i watched an rt video where a correspondent was traveling up a coast rode 120km away from fukushima and his geiger counter was going off. sensationalism, maybe...
Ricochet
The (US) EPA radiation map website, RadNet has been disabled all inquireies come up blank. They don't want you to know.
https://cdxnode64.epa.gov/radnet-public/showMap.do

Remember, 9/11 "the air is safe to breathe"
bill
https://cdxnode64.epa.gov/radnet-public/showMap.do



:Please be patient while we get back with the data you requested."






Well I have been patient for about 20 minutes
bill
Still patient here

but no data

they must be really busy
tumetuestumefaisdubien
QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Mar 18 2011, 11:11 AM) *
i'm not sure i used those words...

nevertheless, there are lots of isotopes that are not short lived and will pose a problem for some time to come, cs-137 (which they detected and gets taken up by vegetation and eaten by animals) , sr-90, co-60 and all the rest. i read somewhere that the germans(?, poles maybe) had to kill wild boars because they had eaten truffles polluted by cs-137 from the chernobyl disaster.

i watched an rt video where a correspondent was traveling up a coast rode 120km away from fukushima and his geiger counter was going off. sensationalism, maybe...

Co-60 is absolutely negligible in nuclear plants and is meticulously avoided if not produced for commercial applications by neutron irradiation of Co-59, because it is very high hazzard material even in trace quantities.
The most dangerous medium half-life products are Sr-90 and Cs-137 (in this order - although Sr-90 is relatively less likely to be released from the plant at the given circumstances in large significant quantities). The rest of the medium half-life radionuclides is relatively negligible in comparison of the potential risk of this two, because they have orders of magnitude lower yield and decay energy.

Regarding the measurements 120 km from the plant if they're real, I don't know, do you have a link?, would be very likely gaseous short half-life isotopes which would get out the plant through steam venting. For significant amount's of the solids which would be cappable to craze the geiger the distance is quite far there would be a significant portion of them there if we consider the wind speeds recorded.

I think the situation with Fukushima is serious, and I would think it will maybe end like level 6 accident, not 4 as the japanese nuclear agency was initially assessing, because there will be the longlasting planned countermeasures needed to contain the consequences of the mess to not have adverse effect on the health of the people and the environment.
But I also think that the Chernobyl scenario never was a threat there, because all the reactors were properly stopped immediately after the quake so the chain reaction was stopped and so:
-there was no partial not speaking total destruction of the reactor due to superhigh pressure, which for example lifted the 2000 ton heavy upper floor and lid and shot it through the roof caused by sudden power excursion of ~100 times the reactor was projected for
-there was no subsequent criticality excursion (in other words nuclear explosion) and immediate even more extreme heat power release [Usually they say it was a hydrogen explosion after the reactor went wide open by the first steam explosion and Zirconium and water and blahblah1.gif, which the scaremogering activists now use to "compare" the Fukushima to the Chernobyl, however the now known radiation signature (Xe133-Xe133m ratio and seismic magnitude) shows quite very probably it was a supercriticality event of like ~10t TNT equivalent, which consumed 0.001-0.01% of the fuel in the supercritical nuclear reaction, at the moment, when the reactor was already wide open - if it wouldn't be, the whole plant would be most probably instantly completely destroyed sidewards - but in our case the substantial part of the core was fortunately just shot up and the rest down, melted, burning through the vessel and maybe even partially boiled out instantly, partially melting through the concrete floor below]
-the primary containments are intact
-no white glowing solids or molten fuel and burning graphite discharged out of the reactor at high speeds
-no extensive fires (which to extinguish costed the firefighters their lives due to very high doses - which somewhere were like in orders you stay there just minutes and you get lethal dose.)
-no secondary activated isotopes and toxins formed due to doubtful dumping of the lead and sand into the wide open remains of the reactor building...
...all that was present in Chernobyl and more...
Also even the PEAK radiation value of 400 mSv measured at Fukushima is in order of 25-500! times lower than what was present quite steadily at Chernobyl for many days.
So the pundits, who scare the public in national TV's with their "Chernobyl on steroids" and like are absolutely ridiculous - this is not sensationism, it is just making complete fools from themselves and the qullible people too.

I hope this helps to show the Fukushima more in the Chernobyl disaster extent context
Ricochet
Chernobyl did not have PLUTONIUM for fuel.
GroundPounder
i would agree tume, that under normal conditions co-60 and a slew of others would not be created in significant quantities (if at all), but i'm sure you are willing to concede that the fukushima situation is anything but normal.

and like ricochet pointed out, plutonium. changes the game a bit.

any luck w/ the data, bill?
lunk
We got the data from Chernobyl, after it was finally confirmed to have happened.
Why not for Fukushima?

And this, is being used as a distraction for the slaughter about to commence in Libya.

At least they can still make things that are not as radioactive, in China...

Competition in manufacturing, is so last century...
GroundPounder
just listening to alan watt from last night and he mentions the GE boss' name...wait for it ...

Jeffrey Immelt
bill
Still waiting for the EPA site for data this morning




they must be really busy and stuff
tumetuestumefaisdubien
QUOTE (Ricochet @ Mar 18 2011, 07:18 PM) *
Chernobyl did not have PLUTONIUM for fuel.

ehhh rolleyes.gif
It doesn't much matter.

To explain: Every unspent uranium fuel consist of mostly pure Uranium oxides - which means a mix of ~95-99% of Uranium isotope U-238 and ~1,5-5% of U-235 oxides. -The fuel must be in oxidated, not a pure metal state, because Uranium is highly reactive and combustible in pyroforic reactions (as we see with the DU ammunition) , not speaking that the oxides have considerably higher melting and boiling point, so if there is an accident, not much of the Uranium is effectively released into the environment. (BTW, when you will swimm next time in the sea mind there is 3-7 miligrams of Uranium in every cubic meter of sea water, don't drink it, the salt is not very healthy in large quantities rolleyes.gif )

The fisile isotope in this nuclear fuel isotope mix which primarily produces then the energy output is U-235.

Whenever the fuel in the reactor reaches criticality which means the fission of U-235 produces more neutrons than it consumes for the fission reaction - making possible a chain reaction - then the neutron flux starts to stepwise transmutate the other bulk U-238 isotope (into the U-239 and Neptunium Np-238 isotopes) which then further change to Plutonium mainly isotopes Pu-238 (makes then 0.01%), Pu-239 (makes then ~0.5% of weight of the spent fuel), Pu-240 (makes ~0.2% of weight), Pu-241 (makes ~0.08% of weight), Pu-242 (0.04%) (+15 other Plutonium isotopes).

(You can learn more with this simulator of decay reactions in the various nuclear materials)

This is the principle of producing Plutonium element, which otherwise is found only in traces in nature. So there is Plutonium present in all systems of active nuclear reactors, whether they use enriched uranium or MOX (mix of enriched Uranium and Plutonium) and every system has it present in relatively very substantial quantities which rise after a time of the reactor operation.

The Plutonium is present in relatively large quantities in all the Fukushima reactors, as it was present in Chernobyl reactor. But Plutonium is not a significant fallout pollutant from the powerplant nuclear accidents, because its oxides have relatively very high melting and boiling point, so it is not volatile, and even in Chernobyl the Plutonium was measured only in traces in the environment after the accident.

Main Plutonium environmental pollutant remains the nuclear bomb tests involving Plutonium as the fissile material (in most of the cases) or as a nuclear reaction product (in all cases), because there the Plutonium is exposed to very high temperatures, boils out and is dispersed then to wide areas. Nothing like that can possibly happen at Fukushima.

So the argument with using the Plutonium as a fuel in one of the reactors is ridiculous, and only shows, how uninformed and desperately pathetic are the scaremonger pundits argumenting with it.

I hope this helps for discerning between the facts and fearmongering propaganda.

---------------------------------------------
Just to note: I'm almost completely sure, that if there wouldn't be such scaremongers who use such disinfo quasi-arguments or at least not the gullible public which en-masse mostly buyes into their BS - most probably because it is patheticaly uneducated by the (dis)education system, this forum wouldn't even exist.

Why?

Because the USA would have now most of its energetics running on nuclear technologies (as was seriously planned in 60-70ties and as do French and Japanese and now the Chinese try it - most of the presently built nuclear plants are there and the west is already almost unable to spot the train, because it confusedly listens to the antinuclear fearmongers). It would have technologies even much more advanced in safety and security than Fukushima (a technology developed in 50-60ties), not having most of its aging nuclear plants built in 70ties -and so they wouldn't have any need to wage illegal wars for the last fossil resources with making the most repugniant pretenses to it like 9/11.
... not speaking that the power and profits of the "NWO" proponents, based on "fossil-energy-pushing+green-propaganda-financing+diseminating-disinfo-about-nuclear-power" racket would be already out of the behind-scenes of the global politics, the USA would be leading economically and politically independent free nation, with no large ecomical crisis in prospect and the rest of the world would be also better off...

You know, some say, that when the man found the fire it was the beginning of the human civilization. To this days the fire despite the safety measures can sometimes kill - as it for example paradoxicly happened after the tsunami water flood in the refinery and hundreds of people died there in the huge explosions. Would we abandon the fire? Mostly we do, we now have developed other sources of heat and light which are much more safe than fire - including apparently the nuclear energy, which although it isn't absolutely safe as nothing is, is the cheapest, one of the most safe and environmentaly friendly only large scale energy source the humankind developed. Will we abandon it just because the stupids buy into false arguments?
Johnny Angel
No offense.. but your last sentence.. False arguments..

You state that Nuclear is the cheapest.. Actually its the most expensive..
One of the most safe.. Unless you live within 50 mles of a plant.
Enviromentally Friendly.. Building a Nuke plant is not green.
No Insurance companys will Insure Nukes, Wall Street wont touch investing in Nukes.,
and if they are so safe, clean, cheap why does the Govt & congress guarentee
the loans.

I dont doubt that todays Nukes are more safe. I hope we can use Nuclear, but please dont
complain when you get the Bill.

All the aging Nuke plants on earth. especially built on faut lines..
Who is going to pay to clean them up..??

Not to mention that a Nuke plant is the perfect Terror target.
One more reason why I think 911 was a inside job.
Real terrorists with 4 jumbo jets would of attacked NYC`s Indian Point Nuke,..
Ricochet
Update March 19 22:00H
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/...1300544332P.pdf
tumetuestumefaisdubien
QUOTE (Johnny Angel @ Mar 19 2011, 06:31 AM) *
No offense.. but your last sentence.. False arguments..
You state that Nuclear is the cheapest.. Actually its the most expensive..

No offense, but false

(based on todays costs, not envisioning 4th generation, which will be even considerably cheaper and more efficient and I bet no so called "Renewables" will be able to compete it if not supported by large subsidies - taxpayers money)
QUOTE
One of the most safe.. Unless you live within 50 mles of a plant.

false
see here
QUOTE
No Insurance companys will Insure Nukes, Wall Street wont touch investing in Nukes., and if they are so safe, clean, cheap why does the Govt & congress guarentee the loans.

Ask them, I'm not an insurance agent, nor US govt. speaker.
QUOTE
I dont doubt that todays Nukes are more safe. I hope we can use Nuclear, but please dont
complain when you get the Bill.

a bill for what?
QUOTE
All the aging Nuke plants on earth. especially built on faut lines..

Especially in US - if the activists payed by fossil lobby and their gullible followers would not politically block building of new plants, the old would be already decommissioned.
QUOTE
Who is going to pay to clean them up..??

The obligatory reserve funds made for decommision and fuel handling - only nuclear energy producers are obligated to pay this externalities. Better if you ask who will pay the recyclation or liquidation of the forests of windmills, solar plants which if we look at the technology used are all surely nonfunctional after 20 years etc.... Taxpayers!
QUOTE
Not to mention that a Nuke plant is the perfect Terror target.

Your argument intimately reminds me the kind of G. Bush rhetoric after 9/11... rolleyes.gif
No it isn't, because it hasn't a cappacity to kill many people - whenever the reactor scrams (in matter of seconds in case of any emergency) the probability of fatalities is very low (military knows it and largely uses nuclear power at their ships even the're intended for war operations, where large callibers and rockets often could strike) - as we see also in Fukushima, which was hit by something, a real terrorist (not a US military...) is not able to put together - a 9M quake and 10+ m tsunami. Yet there still are no large fatalities in Fukushima the terrorists want to inflict and the dangerous contamination I would bet (in fact I've calculated it for myself from the multiple sets of available measurements -in, around and dozens of kilometers from there) will not last more than several weeks at an area larger than ~3km around the plant, because it is by decay trend signature mostly short half-life isotops, with no dangerous levels of Cs-137 and Sr-90, not speaking about a Plutonium all the activistic pundits now look like crazing about, because no real catastrophe as in Chernobyl unfolded -as they apparently, quiverly, were fervently "predicting" and maybe even wishing - and I found their rants not just pathetic, but being a real hyenism, because they in fact don't much care about japanese people who were affected, just their petty agendas.
QUOTE
One more reason why I think 911 was a inside job.

I don't think, I now know it and I know who did it..but at the moment it is against the policies of P4T to write it here and directly blame for 9/11.
QUOTE
Real terrorists with 4 jumbo jets would of attacked NYC`s Indian Point Nuke,..

A nonsense. Why? It would not have a cappacity to kill 3000 people in 2 hours, not being a spectacular attack on nation's symbols (nuke plants are largely unpopular in US) for the media campaign -even if you would hit a reactor building with multiple jetliners, the primary containment is projected to withstand it. ...As were the Twin towers...
Ricochet
Natural News has this to say on MOX fuel.
QUOTE
(NaturalNews) Largely absent from most mainstream media reports on the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster is the fact that a highly-dangerous "mixed-oxide" (MOX) fuel in present in six percent of the fuel rods at the plant's Unit 3 reactor. Why is MOX a big deal? According to the Nuclear Information Resource Center (NIRS), this plutonium-uranium fuel mixture is far more dangerous than typical enriched uranium -- a single milligram (mg) of MOX is as deadly as 2,000,000 mg of normal enriched uranium.

On March 14, Unit 3 of the Fukushima reactor exploded, sending a huge smoke plume into the air. This particular reactor, of course, contains the rods fueled with MOX. You can watch a clip of that explosion here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_N-...

If even a couple milligrams of MOX were released during this explosion -- or if other explosions at the plant inflict any damage on the MOX-filled rods -- then the consequences could be exponentially more devastating than the mere leakage of enriched uranium. And since nobody knows for sure exactly which rods have been damaged, and whether or not the situation can actually be contained, it is only a matter of time before the world finds out for sure.

An exact quote from the report reads:

"In the event of such accidents (involving the accidental release of MOX), if the ICRP (International Commission on Radiological Protection) recommendations for general public exposure were adhered to, only about one mg of plutonium may be released from a MOX facility to the environment. As a comparison, in [sic] uranium fabrication facility, 2kg (2,000,000 mg) of uranium could be released in the same radiation exposure."

A simple calculation reveals that one mg of MOX is basically two million times more powerful than one mg of uranium. This is clearly not a good thing when the plutonium-containing fuel rods in Fukushima may be damaged from the recent explosions and leaking into the environment.

A recent National Public Radio (NPR) piece explains that the half-life of plutonium-239, a component of MOX, is an astounding 24,000 years. The same piece explains that if even a small amount of this potent substance escapes from the plant in a smoke plume, the particles will travel with the wind and contaminate soil for tens of thousands of years (http://www.npr.org/2011/03/16/13460...).

Amazingly, most mainstream reports that mention MOX discount it as a non-threat. But the truth of the matter is that the threat posed by MOX is very serious. The NIRS report explains that inhalation of MOX radioactive material is significantly more dangerous than inhalation of normal uranium radioactive particles. You can read the entire MOX report for yourself here:
http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/469-47...

Sources for this story include:

http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/469-47...

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/16/13460...



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031736_plutoniu...l#ixzz1H56jfuJ7




Kind of gives you that warm fuzzy feeling. Real safe this nuclear energy.
tumetuestumefaisdubien
QUOTE (Ricochet @ Mar 19 2011, 10:02 AM) *
Natural News has this to say on MOX fuel.
(blahblah1.gif)
Kind of gives you that warm fuzzy feeling. Real safe this nuclear energy.

Maybe you've missed it but above I explained in detail, why the Plutonium argument is more than less a nonsense. There is Plutonium in all the Fukushima reactors but a potential of it's release in the air in significant amounts is much lower than is technically conceivable -even in the circumstances we see in the Fukushima. Many orders of magnitude more Plutonium -that can ever leak from the plant- was released by nuclear tests, yet we're still alive and somehow the ecomical crisis stirring pundits, which bring you the warm fuzzy feeling, don't protest. -it would not help them, because one of the rare almost true information in the article is that the Pu-239 has the stated halflife (in fact it is 24,110 years, and btw the most dangerous is not the Pu-239, but Pu-241 with halflife of 14 years -which makes overwhelming bulk of radioactivity of Plutonium in the exposed MOX -go buy a rope... rolleyes.gif ).
lunk
radiation sickness

n.
Illness induced by exposure to ionizing radiation, ranging in severity from nausea, vomiting, headache, and diarrhea to loss of hair and teeth, reduction in red and white blood cell counts, extensive hemorrhaging, sterility, and death.

http://www.answers.com/topic/radiation-poi...g#ixzz1H5J3O2OY

i don't think that there is, a safe limit.

This will be more catastrophic than Chernobyl, at least locally.

i think i heard the phrase "radioactive volcano", fitting in with Clif Highs' web bot predictions, with the "ill winds", that are supposed to travel around the planet 9 times?

halfpasthuman.com
tumetuestumefaisdubien
QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 19 2011, 11:10 AM) *
This will be more catastrophic than Chernobyl, at least locally.

This is nonsense. It will not and can't happen. The radioactivity at Chernobyl was steadily 25-750 times higher than the peak values at Fukushima immediately after venting and explosions at No3, where unlike Chernobyl no nuclear explosion occured.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.